[ QUOTE ]
Patron Powers are truly permanent. This powerset, once chosen, is as much a part of your character as your Name, Primary Powerset, Secondary Powerset, Body Type, and Origin.
There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one. This is because it is tied to specific content for that Patron.
Because of this, hard numbers are given, in-game, about the powers and what they do before you even choose which arc you wish to partake (and will most likely be available on the website as well).
[/ QUOTE ]
Posi, will these Patron Powers be treated as if they are epic power?
In other words, Once you hit level 41 you will have the option to select your patron and its powers from that patron.
So the Patron Powers will basically be the 5th Power Pool which is the equivalent of the Epic Powers in CoH
So if we choose to level our villain to level 50. is it still possible to accept a Patron at level 50 or would it be too late?
If we did not take a Patron, and we did level to 50. If we did a respec could we then select Patron Powers which we originally did not choose to go with previously?
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
From what I read, it feels the underlying reason they are going to be locked in is the development team is going for something different than CoH, trying to get an involved storyline for the endgame, and keeping to their mantra of one character not always being able to see all the content.
People fuss that CoV is too similar, and now they fuss if it has something otherwise. Personally I love the thought of respecable epic pools for each villain class, but I can also live with having something different giving me the endgame content CoH is sorely lacking. In CoH, you hit 39+ and are left with the awful heck of finding a Sewer/Eden trial or doing the same dang Praetorian and Carnie arcs every other schmuck is also doing. Who in their right mind would complain if there were things in PI broadcasted other than "Infernal AV team", "MoM need hlp plz!", and "Anyone got the hydra badge mish?!" that we all heard time and time again.... Oh the monotony.
Not to forget heroes barely have any arcs learning about the major characters in-game. Sure Indigo can tell you to read between the billions of her text lines, but who are Mynx, Numina, or States? If you don't read the comic, you'd find States is just flavor spackle at the end of a mission who has a grudge from hell against lava. Big whoop. Let me at least find out why he hates that lava, if he is addicted to Boo Berry, just something; anything really to give me some depth. Is fleshing out the main villains and making characters seem to be a part of Arachnos by choosing factions bad?
Lastly, on respecs. Most MMOs do not give those. CoX is like getting to rip open a pinata with my face and have all the sweet candy I want. I screw up and can respec at 24, 34, 44, when they do an Issue, when something goes crazy, Cuppa had some Mountain Blue Java and sweet talked devs, etc. Even messed up characters are still fairly playable to boot! Once I hit mid-30s my brain should let me know what is and isn't viable and how to play my character. If I'm 40+ and can't rationale if something is a good power choice by then or ask (doubly if I have alts and experience) then...... um..... yikes... Not like other players won't post all the numbers in one to two days for yet even more informed choices.
I may not be 100% happy with their decisions, but the devs aren't here to do just what *I* want.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Patron Powers are truly permanent. This powerset, once chosen, is as much a part of your character as your Name, Primary Powerset, Secondary Powerset, Body Type, and Origin.
There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one. This is because it is tied to specific content for that Patron.
Because of this, hard numbers are given, in-game, about the powers and what they do before you even choose which arc you wish to partake (and will most likely be available on the website as well).
[/ QUOTE ]
Posi, will these Patron Powers be treated as if they are epic power?
In other words, Once you hit level 41 you will have the option to select your patron and its powers from that patron.
So basically the Patron Powers will basically be the 5th Power Pool which is the equivelent of the Epic Powers in CoH
But if I choose to level my villain to level 50. is it still possible to Accept a Patron at level 50 or would it be too late?
If we did not take a Patron, and we did level to 50. If we did a respec could we then select Patron Powers which we originaly did not choose to go with previously?
[/ QUOTE ]
i think you just hit the nail on head there.
my bigest fears are not knowing what the powers look like and how much dmg, acc, buffs, debuffs they give.
exmple as of right now i think my lvl 40 Bot/Dark MM Robo Reaper will side with Ghost Widow since it sounds like she will have dark powers in her set. and it would fit his theme. but i dont want to pick that set and fine that all the powers look like [censored] and sux [censored] in the dmg, acc, buff, debuff areas then be stuck with them for the rest of that toon.
we shouldnt have to lvl a toon to 40 then spend 4 months testing each patron pool on test just to know if we like them. then finaly pick that patron pool and lvl from 40-50 for a 5th time.
Posi out of all the questions asked i think Beef_Cakes is the one that needs to be answered the most.
[ QUOTE ]
But if I choose to level my villain to level 50. is it still possible to Accept a Patron at level 50 or would it be too late?
[/ QUOTE ]
and i do think it is alittle unfair that the heroes can change their epic pools unlimited amounts of times untill they fine a combo that works best and we are stuck guessing witch ones we will like. and have no choice in changing.
[ QUOTE ]
Patron Powers are truly permanent. This powerset, once chosen, is as much a part of your character as your Name, Primary Powerset, Secondary Powerset, Body Type, and Origin.
There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one. This is because it is tied to specific content for that Patron.
Because of this, hard numbers are given, in-game, about the powers and what they do before you even choose which arc you wish to partake (and will most likely be available on the website as well).
[/ QUOTE ]
I like this game. I play it all the time. As a rule, I think the developers know what they're doing, and have a well thought-out reason for decisions they make. They've done things that I don't always agree with, but I know they did so with the intent of making the game better.
But, they HAD to have known how upset this would make many players. Sure, they want to tell a good story, and if the patron powers are inescapably tied to it, fine. That's their decision, but I don't think it's a good one, from a game design perspective.
Heroes get access to a new set of powers when they get to 41st level. Doing a little internet research, you can find out exactly what all the Epic powers do, and which ones would probably be the best fit for your character. Later, you can change your mind and respec, if, even after all the number crunching, the set doesn't meet your expectations.
The Patron Pools, as we understand them now, break a valued precedent, and for no gameplay reason - only for a story one. That's just not cool.
[ QUOTE ]
You know what I was thinking.. what if the powers didn't matter because most (like 98%) of them gonna be the same? Maybe that's why it wouldn't matter if you picked X Patron or not?
Like for example, all of the Patrons grant the same powers except for their one single signature Patron attack they wanted to give you?
[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking the same thing. Its possible that each of the Patron pools will offer the same exact powers. The only difference would be their appearance. So Mako's shield, ranged cone, etc. would be corallax themed, while Sirocco's would be Mu red lighting themed.
If that is the case, then only the Patron specific content will truely matter.
I am willing to wait for more details before passing judgement.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Taser, but being one of the biggest Dev fanboys around makes your opinion mean very little to me. Grats.
I guess it's forbidden that someone actually disagree with something that's obviously based on bad design, bad foresight, and bad decision making.
I've got some nerve.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because you have to hate the game before you're allowed to have an opinion about it. Taser! Your complaint quota is not high enough to post in this thread! BAD TASER!
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a lot of things I like about the game and a lot of things I don't like. I've patted the Devs on their backs when they do a good job of something, but I'll also let them know when they've screwed up.
Unlike others who are on either extreme.
Posi said that CURRENTLY there isn't any way to switch to a different patron because the powersets are tied to the content. Again, the key word here is currently. That's not to say that sometime in the future that won't change. The impression I get is that if they ever come up with the content to allow such a thing, then it'll be possible.
I can understand why a lot of people are alarmed, but there's just too much that we don't know yet. We know there's a total of 4 patrons. We don't know how many powersets each one will offer, and aside from a comment about being able to summon a bunch of shark spirits, we know nothing about what they do. So let's wait until I7 hits test, which (in my mind) will likely be in early April, try out some of these powers for ourselves, and then pass judgment.
Also, I don't know if this was mentioned or not, but the impression I get is that while we won't be able to respec out of patron powersets, the powers themselves will be interchangeable when we respec. I just don't see the devs not at least giving us that much leeway.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know what I was thinking.. what if the powers didn't matter because most (like 98%) of them gonna be the same? Maybe that's why it wouldn't matter if you picked X Patron or not?
Like for example, all of the Patrons grant the same powers except for their one single signature Patron attack they wanted to give you?
[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking the same thing. Its possible that each of the Patron pools will offer the same exact powers. The only difference would be their appearance. So Mako's shield, ranged cone, etc. would be corallax themed, while Sirocco's would be Mu red lighting themed.
If that is the case, then only the Patron specific content will truely matter.
I am willing to wait for more details before passing judgement.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think they'd make all the powers the same, just with different animations, that's greatly limiting the choices players have.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know what I was thinking.. what if the powers didn't matter because most (like 98%) of them gonna be the same? Maybe that's why it wouldn't matter if you picked X Patron or not?
Like for example, all of the Patrons grant the same powers except for their one single signature Patron attack they wanted to give you?
[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking the same thing. Its possible that each of the Patron pools will offer the same exact powers. The only difference would be their appearance. So Mako's shield, ranged cone, etc. would be corallax themed, while Sirocco's would be Mu red lighting themed.
If that is the case, then only the Patron specific content will truely matter.
I am willing to wait for more details before passing judgement.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think they'd make all the powers the same, just with different animations, that's greatly limiting the choices players have.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I don't really like my idea either, but it does offer a reason for not being about to respec out of a patron pool.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know what I was thinking.. what if the powers didn't matter because most (like 98%) of them gonna be the same? Maybe that's why it wouldn't matter if you picked X Patron or not?
Like for example, all of the Patrons grant the same powers except for their one single signature Patron attack they wanted to give you?
[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking the same thing. Its possible that each of the Patron pools will offer the same exact powers. The only difference would be their appearance. So Mako's shield, ranged cone, etc. would be corallax themed, while Sirocco's would be Mu red lighting themed.
If that is the case, then only the Patron specific content will truely matter.
I am willing to wait for more details before passing judgement.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think they'd make all the powers the same, just with different animations, that's greatly limiting the choices players have.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why not?
It certainly would solve the "man-I-hate-this-Patron's-powers,-I-wanna-try-the-other-Patron-now" problem.
im with you Blue i dont like the idea but it would fit with them locking the patron pools
I havent read this thread, and i dont plan on reading it, what i have seen are the posts from posi, and i would like to give my opinion on it as a customer that pays for 3 accounts each month.
I don't like this at all.
One of the things i like best about the "epics" in coh is how much fun and how much it changes a character when you respec from one epic to another.
Title, or how you get them aside patron powers are the equivalent of coh epics, regardless of the differences. Making them permanent is a very bad choice for one very important reason, fun. The same thing constantly and never being able to change it will get stale. This is my opinion as a customer, there are 3 ways i can express my opinion. I can do it on the forums, through pm's to the devs, or with my wallet. To me being locked into powers over the long run is not fun. I will not cancel right away, but people only stay as long as theyre enjoying themselves.
Another problem i have with permanent patron powers is even with numbers and info given, by the time someoen actually gets the power to mess around with the choice will be locked. Yes, someone could use the test server for the first power if they are awarded the same as coh (41,44,47,49). But what about the later powers. Is someone supposed to play 6 levels without training up just so they can copy over to the test server and experience the 3rd and 4th teir powers without commiting permanently to a particular patron.
What if the numbers change down the road? Will people still be commited to a particular patron, even though the reason why they may have commited in the first place no longer exists?
I don't want this to be a oh [censored] i quit post, but i dislike very much the idea of a permanent power "set" for a number of reasons, and if it does negativley affect my experience enough i will take my $45 a month elsewhere.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know what I was thinking.. what if the powers didn't matter because most (like 98%) of them gonna be the same? Maybe that's why it wouldn't matter if you picked X Patron or not?
Like for example, all of the Patrons grant the same powers except for their one single signature Patron attack they wanted to give you?
[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking the same thing. Its possible that each of the Patron pools will offer the same exact powers. The only difference would be their appearance. So Mako's shield, ranged cone, etc. would be corallax themed, while Sirocco's would be Mu red lighting themed.
If that is the case, then only the Patron specific content will truely matter.
I am willing to wait for more details before passing judgement.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think they'd make all the powers the same, just with different animations, that's greatly limiting the choices players have.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why not?
It certainly would solve the "man-I-hate-this-Patron's-powers,-I-wanna-try-the-other-Patron-now" problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except for the fact that Posi already said we can't respec out of a patron due to the way they're coded into the content - not because they didn't want player to be able to do so.
[ QUOTE ]
Food for thought.
They haven't yet said HOW MANY powers are in the patron pools.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am also curious, also will the various patrons give different powers to the different AT's. Will a brute that goes with ghost widow have different choices than a master mind that goes with ghost widow?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love this game. I almost never complain. But this time I feel I need to.
Patron choice being permanent? Bad, but perhaps necessary.
Having to chose a patron? Very bad. I'm sorry, but my Mastermind is an evil genius with plans of world-domination and an ego the size of a galaxy. In-character, he would never, NEVER take a patron. From the sound of it, I'm going to have to break character. I want to play an archvillain who's trying to take over, not an apprentice of a bigger villain!
[/ QUOTE ]
You are not forced to do any of the Patron content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you want an ancillary pool.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
You're complaining about being locked into something that you don't even know what it is. Isn't that a little premature?
Honestly? Not really.
What they are planning for Patron Powers is a baaaaaaad idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. We have sufficient information to complain. Better to do so now so the devs can realize that people aren't exactly hot on the idea.
Most of you old timers know that once this hits test the mechanics aren't going to change that much. Tweaks for balance, but the functionality is staying the same. I think it might be too late to make the patron pools respeccable, but it's probably not to late to add generic ancillary pools for villains that relate to their closest CoH AT.
So for people who don't want to make a permanent choice they could if they were a brute for instance go:
Stone Mastery
Fire Mastery
Energy Mastery (with CP swapped for something else)
Darkness Mastery
From the Tanker and Scrapper Ancillaries. I think that would make everyone happy. Well maybe not the devs, because I gather that many people would pass on the risk if the option were added.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Personally, I couldn't give any less of a damn about all this drama. We'll just have to wait and see.
If a patron gives my Corruptor the ability to slug people, be it with a weapon or with fists, I am SO there.
Hey, I need to compete with Blasters.
I at first assumed it would be Black Scorpion or Captain Mako, but then I learned that Patron Powers would be different for each AT.
Damn.
Maybe I'll head for Scirocco, then, since he's got a sword even though he's a Corruptor.
[ QUOTE ]
Lastly, on respecs. Most MMOs do not give those.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow does.
EQ2 does.
EQOA does.
FFXI kinda does since one character can be all classes at once. 
In fact, I've not played ANY MMO that doesn't let you respec. Not your basic class, but then CoH doesn't do that.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're complaining about being locked into something that you don't even know what it is. Isn't that a little premature?
Honestly? Not really.
What they are planning for Patron Powers is a baaaaaaad idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. We have sufficient information to complain. Better to do so now so the devs can realize that people aren't exactly hot on the idea.
Most of you old timers know that once this hits test the mechanics aren't going to change that much. Tweaks for balance, but the functionality is staying the same. I think it might be too late to make the patron pools respeccable, but it's probably not to late to add generic ancillary pools for villains that relate to their closest CoH AT.
So for people who don't want to make a permanent choice they could if they were a brute for instance go:
Stone Mastery
Fire Mastery
Energy Mastery (with CP swapped for something else)
Darkness Mastery
From the Tanker and Scrapper Ancillaries. I think that would make everyone happy. Well maybe not the devs, because I gather that many people would pass on the risk if the option were added.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think offering the other epic pools to the villains is a good idea, yeah it may bit a bit more work, but not much.
I think it would be great for those Rper's out there that don't feel there villain needs to be a Apprentice in the world of Anarchy. So if they choose not to go with a Patron, they may still go with the normal epic pools in which every COH hero has the option to do.
Otherwise, if these epics do not exist, you are pretty much forced to go with a patron for new powers or you can stay with the standard Pool Powers.
To me I could care less about everything, the permanent feature doesn't bother me too much, but it would be nice to have some hard numbers for these patron powers.
Even still, that does not say that these powers will be tweaked /nerfed in the future causing the player to wish he/she never had taken that specific Patron Power Set.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
I have to agree that with the current information being revealed to us... This sounds absolutly terrible. Hopefully when i7 hits test we can get enough public outcry IF this is actually as bad as it seems. Or perhaps it will be addressed in a later patch.. Bottom line, I am not a fan.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know what I was thinking.. what if the powers didn't matter because most (like 98%) of them gonna be the same? Maybe that's why it wouldn't matter if you picked X Patron or not?
Like for example, all of the Patrons grant the same powers except for their one single signature Patron attack they wanted to give you?
[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking the same thing. Its possible that each of the Patron pools will offer the same exact powers. The only difference would be their appearance. So Mako's shield, ranged cone, etc. would be corallax themed, while Sirocco's would be Mu red lighting themed.
If that is the case, then only the Patron specific content will truely matter.
I am willing to wait for more details before passing judgement.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think they'd make all the powers the same, just with different animations, that's greatly limiting the choices players have.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why not?
It certainly would solve the "man-I-hate-this-Patron's-powers,-I-wanna-try-the-other-Patron-now" problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except for the fact that Posi already said we can't respec out of a patron due to the way they're coded into the content - not because they didn't want player to be able to do so.
[/ QUOTE ]
What? lol.
I don't think you got what I was trying to say.
What I meant was if most of the powers (except for a few Patron-related powers) are shared by all the Patrons, then there wouldn't be any need for respeccing.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then how about waiting until it hits Test and see how many powers or how much flexibility you have with doing a respec? Your answers will come when I7 hits Test and the devs clear things up better. Instead of jumping to conclusions, see what happens before claiming they completely screwed something up you dont have a clue what it is yet.
I reserve judgement on things like this until I actually see and try it. Then I make a clear post for or against it rather then just bluntly saying they dropped the ball.
[/ QUOTE ]
It doesn't matter how many powers are in the set, the point remains you can't choose a different one down they line should you feel the need to.
And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Realistically, it won't matter "game-wise".
Let's look at what Ancillary Power Sets "basically" do in CoH.
[*]Tanks: Mezz or missing self-buffs plus ranged attacks.[*]Scrappers: Basically, ditto.[*]Blasters: Armor, self-buffs and possible attacks.[*]Defenders: Armor, self-buffs and a possible mezz.[*]Controllers: Armor, attack, self buffs.
I think we are likely to see that Patron Power Sets follow the same steps.
[*]Corruptors: Get very similar power sets thematically to Defenders and blasters.[*]Master Minds: Ditto, I think.[*]Dominator: Armor, self-buffs, self-heals.[*]Brutes: Missing self-buffs, ranged attacks and a possible mezz.[*]Stalkers: Missing self-buffs, ranged attack and a possible mezz.
For a "random" example, my E/E brute is missing a self heal and has no ranged attacks. Most likely *all* of the patron powers have a ranged attack(s), mezz or debuff single target and a self-buff of some sort. But GW's will be a ghostly power, Sicciro (SP?) will be lightning bases and so on.
Still here, even after all this time!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then how about waiting until it hits Test and see how many powers or how much flexibility you have with doing a respec? Your answers will come when I7 hits Test and the devs clear things up better. Instead of jumping to conclusions, see what happens before claiming they completely screwed something up you dont have a clue what it is yet.
I reserve judgement on things like this until I actually see and try it. Then I make a clear post for or against it rather then just bluntly saying they dropped the ball.
[/ QUOTE ]
It doesn't matter how many powers are in the set, the point remains you can't choose a different one down they line should you feel the need to.
And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Realistically, it won't matter "game-wise".
Let's look at what Ancillary Power Sets "basically" do in CoH.
[*]Tanks: Mezz or missing self-buffs plus ranged attacks.[*]Scrappers: Basically, ditto.[*]Blasters: Armor, self-buffs and possible attacks.[*]Defenders: Armor, self-buffs and a possible mezz.[*]Controllers: Armor, attack, self buffs.
I think we are likely to see that Patron Power Sets follow the same steps.
[*]Corruptors: Get very similar power sets thematically to Defenders and blasters.[*]Master Minds: Ditto, I think.[*]Dominator: Armor, self-buffs, self-heals.[*]Brutes: Missing self-buffs, ranged attacks and a possible mezz.[*]Stalkers: Missing self-buffs, ranged attack and a possible mezz.
For a "random" example, my E/E brute is missing a self heal and has no ranged attacks. Most likely *all* of the patron powers have a ranged attack(s), mezz or debuff single target and a self-buff of some sort. But GW's will be a ghostly power, Sicciro (SP?) will be lightning bases and so on.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's really not that simple.
[ QUOTE ]
Realistically, it won't matter "game-wise".
Let's look at what Ancillary Power Sets "basically" do in CoH.
Tanks: Mezz or missing self-buffs plus ranged attacks.
Scrappers: Basically, ditto.
Blasters: Armor, self-buffs and possible attacks.
Defenders: Armor, self-buffs and a possible mezz.
Controllers: Armor, attack, self buffs.
[/ QUOTE ]
For Scrappers there are drastic differences between the pools even when they follow the formula stated above. Body Mastery and Weapons Mastery are much different and both are different from Dark Mastery. And that's the AT with the least amount of pools.
I don't think the choice is something that doesn't matter. By level 41 characters matter a lot. I can see why the devs want it to be this way, but I think they could save themselve a lot of grief if they offer generic, respeccable choices to go along with the Patron Pools.
Otherwise get ready for years of people complaining and Taser and others berating them for complaining. Sigh... makes me tired just thinking of it. 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
I challenge anyone that does CS to prove me wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having done phone CS related things for over a year, I know how it feels. Too many people feel like they are right and your terribly wrong. Especially qualifying for something broadband in their area and it wont pull up and they insist "I CAN GET IT" based off a flyer we sent to them. Then they demand a supervisor, sup says the same thing. They get pissy and hang up
This space is intentionally left blank.