and where is this proof saying they didnt think of that while desiging Patron Pools? We dont know what the devs do every day. Most companies, when an idea is presented, different ways are thought for and against it. I dont see the devs making a big decision like Posi said unless there was a overall decent majority agreeing to it.
The saying that content is tied to this makes it sound like there would be alot of backend tech to have you change Patrons because if your level 50, you cant just go back and do the 40-44/45 content from a Patron set if you respec into another one.
Though it may sound like dev "lazyness" it may just require a good amount of tech to remove souviners or other things you get from a patron pool because technically you never "did" them or whatever >.>
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And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.
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We don't know this. We need to chillax.
if I was Ghost Widow or someone else, I'd be pissed if someone said "Yeah...your not right for me, though Scirocco looks interesting! He has teh haxx" 
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Amen to that. I wouldn't want a dead hottie hating me.
EDIT: That sentence is just wrong.
Positron: any word on whether or not there'll be "generic" ancillary powers for villains?
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And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.
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I'm sure it was taken into account... what I want to know is why they decided to go the "permanent" route.
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and they dropped the ball with Kheldians
and they dropped the ball with the Purple Patch
and they dropped the ball with Epic Pools
and they dropped the ball with ED
and they dropped the ball with Patron Pools
Kettle ; Meet Pot
As for my personal opinion, the TEST server exists to check things out. We can try out each power individually, wait for others on the baords to post how each power works in practice and I'll make my decision.
I wont come and complain on the boards for a mistake I made demanding free months or demanding the devs shower me with respecs. I accept mistakes I make. We all do it. The test server is there to do our best to ensure we dont make a mistake.
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We all know of the Test Server, I've actually spent 4+ hours there today playing around with builds. Problem with the Test Server is that it only works for things that they plan to implement.
So what happens when sometime down the line they decide Mako's sets are too strong or they want to change how one of the powers work - whoever has Mako can't decide to pick another patron. The test server doesn't solve that.
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Well if they decide to CHANGE something that players didn't originally sign onto doing, then they're obviously gonna give you another choice of choosing your Patron.
That idea is obviously unfair, the devs would obviously do something about it.
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From Posi's post:
There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one. This is because it is tied to specific content for that Patron.
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He's talking about us not recieving any respecs out of our Patrons in I7.
You're talking about "what if..." and about the devs changing things.
Ofcourse, if they change something that the players didn't originally approve of, they're gonna give you a chance to rethink your choice once again. How? I don't know? but it's clear to see that there's something wrong with the devs not letting us change our Patrons when THEY changed it AFTER we picked them.
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It's not "what if this power or that power changes", it's more "when this power or that power changes".
There will be power changes to these pools after it goes live, that's the nature of an MMO. The only suggestion I can make is they not change a single thing about them after they go live until they figure out a feasible way for players to respec out of a specific patron.
And due to this not being they player's fault, but a result of Dev carelessness, there should be some type of perk associated for villain ATs.
You know what I was thinking.. what if the powers didn't matter because most (like 98%) of them gonna be the same? Maybe that's why it wouldn't matter if you picked X Patron or not?
Like for example, all of the Patrons grant the same powers except for their one single signature Patron attack they wanted to give you?
Oh and the only reason why I see a problem with respeccing over is because of the 40-50 content missions you'll be doing for that specific Patron.
Hm I think we at least need to see the powers before people start whining.
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It's not "what if this power or that power changes", it's more "when this power or that power changes".
There will be power changes to these pools after it goes live, that's the nature of an MMO. The only suggestion I can make is they not change a single thing about them after they go live until they figure out a feasible way for players to respec out of a specific patron.
And due to this not being they player's fault, but a result of Dev carelessness, there should be some type of perk associated for villain ATs.
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Oh well, I don't care anymore. There's no use debating over this right now.
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And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.
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We don't know this. We need to chillax.
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If it was taken into account and they went along with it anyway, than I've obviously overestimated their intelligence.
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And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.
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We don't know this. We need to chillax.
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If it was taken into account and they went along with it anyway, than I've obviously overestimated their intelligence.
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Dude, give it a rest.
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And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.
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We don't know this. We need to chillax.
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If it was taken into account and they went along with it anyway, than I've obviously overestimated their intelligence.
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Dude, give it a rest.
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Hey, they made a dumb a move that's going to kick players in the [censored] somewhere down the road. I'm more than entitled to be concerned over that and defend my opinion.
You're complaining about being locked into something that you don't even know what it is. Isn't that a little premature?
Honestly? Not really.
What they are planning for Patron Powers is a baaaaaaad idea.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.
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We don't know this. We need to chillax.
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If it was taken into account and they went along with it anyway, than I've obviously overestimated their intelligence.
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Dude, give it a rest.
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Hey, they made a dumb a move that's going to kick players in the [censored] somewhere down the road. I'm more than entitled to be concerned over that and defend my opinion.
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But let me ask you this, do you even know what you're defending?
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Oh and in beta you USED to be able to change AT's through the Terra Volta trial. So the tech is in place to change patron powers. Just like the tech is available to do name changes, etc.
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Actually that was the original, on-paper, plan for Terra Volta. The Strategy Guide went off the on-paper plan and said that is the end result of the trial. Thus there is no "tech in place" for this. The Terra Volta trial was not in the COH beta, it was issue 2, I believe, that it made its debut. Changing ATs has never been in the game, it was never programmed.
Hopefully that clears that up.
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Not according to your testers. Hate to say it Posi, but I just don't believe a word you guys say anymore when you say you're all going to do something.
The infamous SG Cap being a prime example. Everytime you turn around, you have a new excuse for why the cap allegedly exists. When I see so many repeated inconsistancies by a company, it's just hard to believe anything they say as truth. In the last ask Statesman for example, Statesman repeated this trend of saying one thing and then being proven wrong with material directly from the game to do so.
Oh and as to the "Tech" you guys claim is interestingly enough never in place... tell me why every other MMO has no problem at all doing such things that parallel items that could be doable yet everytime the "Tech" isn't available. Unless you guys coded this game in something like Cobol and then used a bunch of AS400's for your server systems, you can't tell me the tech isn't available.
Geesh...we get the point. You don't like how Patron Powers are going to be impletmented and don't seem to like the devs. Talk about a broken record. Though all this knee jerking and arm chairing is fun, we're all really just talking out of our hind quarters until we actually have more info to go on. Like when it's been on test and we've had a chance to see how all this works. Might suck like a Dyson. Might be cooler then dry ice. One thing is for sure though: there will be lots of silly flame wars about it.
But still I fear and still I dare not laugh at the madman!
One man's "meh" is another man's "zomg". - Leatherneck
Procrastination meter coming soon.
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Hey, they made a dumb a move that's going to kick players in the [censored] somewhere down the road. I'm more than entitled to be concerned over that and defend my opinion.
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Agree 100% that based on what we know at the moment that it looks like a dumb move. But we don't know hardly anything YET. We called out Positron for clarification. I'm sure the Devs are currently huddled up wherever they do in the office to decide what the official response to this will be. We need to just wait for that.
Is it content thats permanent, or powers? Or both? We all will agree that locking POWERS = bad, but everything else locked = fine.
We just need to wait for their (hopefully) prompt response and clarification. Also, we need to lay off the "devs are stupid rere's who suck" sorta stuff. Pissing in their faces will not engender them to give us more info.
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Hey, they made a dumb a move that's going to kick players in the [censored] somewhere down the road. I'm more than entitled to be concerned over that and defend my opinion.
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Agree 100% that based on what we know at the moment that it looks like a dumb move. But we don't know hardly anything YET. We called out Positron for clarification. I'm sure the Devs are currently huddled up wherever they do in the office to decide what the official response to this will be. We need to just wait for that.
Is it content thats permanent, or powers? Or both? We all will agree that locking POWERS = bad, but everything else locked = fine.
We just need to wait for their (hopefully) prompt response and clarification. Also, we need to lay off the "devs are stupid rere's who suck" sorta stuff. Pissing in their faces will not engender them to give us more info.
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Like I said, does he even know what he's defending?
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Hey, they made a dumb a move that's going to kick players in the [censored] somewhere down the road. I'm more than entitled to be concerned over that and defend my opinion.
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Agree 100% that based on what we know at the moment that it looks like a dumb move. But we don't know hardly anything YET. We called out Positron for clarification. I'm sure the Devs are currently huddled up wherever they do in the office to decide what the official response to this will be. We need to just wait for that.
Is it content thats permanent, or powers? Or both? We all will agree that locking POWERS = bad, but everything else locked = fine.
We just need to wait for their (hopefully) prompt response and clarification. Also, we need to lay off the "devs are stupid rere's who suck" sorta stuff. Pissing in their faces will not engender them to give us more info.
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While we all agree that locking powers = BAD, I'm not sure that we all agree that locking Patron/Powersets/Content = GOOD.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Sorry Taser, but being one of the biggest Dev fanboys around makes your opinion mean very little to me. Grats.
I guess it's forbidden that someone actually disagree with something that's obviously based on bad design, bad foresight, and bad decision making.
I've got some nerve.
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Because you have to hate the game before you're allowed to have an opinion about it. Taser! Your complaint quota is not high enough to post in this thread! BAD TASER!
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Like I said, does he even know what he's defending?
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I'm honestly sick of reading half the damn forums because half the threads are YOU SUCK NO YOU DO THEY NEED TO GIVE ME JACKS JOB CUPPA IS A BABOON blah blah blah sorta thing.
I've been playing since nearly launch of COH. I've seen the Dev's make some decisions that I think are boneheaded. Some that I think are great. But in the end, it's their game. My opinion differs fine, that's my right to differ. But the incessant DEV U SUCK U R A RETARD sorta stuff is really begining to grate on me.
Honestly, most places have atrocious customer service because their customers act like spoiled little [censored].
I challenge anyone that does CS to prove me wrong.
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Patron Powers are truly permanent. This powerset, once chosen, is as much a part of your character as your Name, Primary Powerset, Secondary Powerset, Body Type, and Origin.
There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one. This is because it is tied to specific content for that Patron.
Because of this, hard numbers are given, in-game, about the powers and what they do before you even choose which arc you wish to partake (and will most likely be available on the website as well).
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So. . .if you are giving players hard numbers for patron power sets since we can never change patron sets, does that mean the reason you don't give the hard numbers for our primary and secondary powers because we CAN change them with a respec when we find out the power doesn't work as we expected it? ie, made an uninformed decision?
Oh, and since you'll be giving hard numbers, that flies in the face of the statement one of you made that you can't give meaningful numbers for all the powers.
I think the Devs have the patience of saints, given the amount of abuse that gets heaped on them (a couple times by me, sorry guys).
I think like 98% of what they've done in the game I 100% agree with, with the big exceptions of ED, and the still shameful neglect of both Faultline and the Shadow Shard.
Honestly, the two prettiest zones, and hardly anything to drive people there..
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Patron Powers are truly permanent. This powerset, once chosen, is as much a part of your character as your Name, Primary Powerset, Secondary Powerset, Body Type, and Origin.
There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one. This is because it is tied to specific content for that Patron.
Because of this, hard numbers are given, in-game, about the powers and what they do before you even choose which arc you wish to partake (and will most likely be available on the website as well).
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Oh, and since you'll be giving hard numbers, that flies in the face of the statement one of you made that you can't give meaningful numbers for all the powers.
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The patron powers aren't all the powers.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
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Oh, and since you'll be giving hard numbers, that flies in the face of the statement one of you made that you can't give meaningful numbers for all the powers.
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I have a feeling this disclosure of numbers is the first test of giving out all the numbers like other MMOs. As long as people don't suddenly become uber from knowing this stuff, I think it'll be short order before we get all the goods.
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I think the Devs have the patience of saints, given the amount of abuse that gets heaped on them (a couple times by me, sorry guys).
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I completely agree.
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and they dropped the ball with Kheldians
and they dropped the ball with the Purple Patch
and they dropped the ball with Epic Pools
and they dropped the ball with ED
and they dropped the ball with Patron Pools
Kettle ; Meet Pot
As for my personal opinion, the TEST server exists to check things out. We can try out each power individually, wait for others on the baords to post how each power works in practice and I'll make my decision.
I wont come and complain on the boards for a mistake I made demanding free months or demanding the devs shower me with respecs. I accept mistakes I make. We all do it. The test server is there to do our best to ensure we dont make a mistake.
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We all know of the Test Server, I've actually spent 4+ hours there today playing around with builds. Problem with the Test Server is that it only works for things that they plan to implement.
So what happens when sometime down the line they decide Mako's sets are too strong or they want to change how one of the powers work - whoever has Mako can't decide to pick another patron. The test server doesn't solve that.
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Well if they decide to CHANGE something that players didn't originally sign onto doing, then they're obviously gonna give you another choice of choosing your Patron.
That idea is obviously unfair, the devs would obviously do something about it.
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From Posi's post:
There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one. This is because it is tied to specific content for that Patron.
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He's talking about us not recieving any respecs out of our Patrons in I7.
You're talking about "what if..." and about the devs changing things.
Ofcourse, if they change something that the players didn't originally approve of, they're gonna give you a chance to rethink your choice once again. How? I don't know? but it's clear to see that there's something wrong with the devs not letting us change our Patrons when THEY changed it AFTER we picked them.