Here's a thought. I wonder if we can do the trial, task force or missions that let you choose a patron and not choose a patron. Even if there aren't non-patron APPs to choose from(which I sincerely doubt there will be) it would be nice if we could do the content that lets you make the choice and then not choose.
The Terra Volta Respec trial would be a precedent for this, since you can choose an SO instead of a respec if you want.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
patron choice being permanent seems very interesting. it's part of the story, and it makes the game a lot interesting. good move devs =)
although i hope we can respec our power choises (not the PPP choice, but the power choises within the PPP) because i usually stuck to my APP anyway, and just re-ordered/got rid of powers i don't want.
this wouldn't be much different. just makes things more interesting.
giving us numbers definitely makes this a cool system. i hope it includes animation time and what not.
who lives in a pineapple under the sea?
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It's not a freak out about a tiny bit of information.
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You're working off of pure assumption, and we all know how that ends up. Wait for all the info. A lot of things have changed over the course of time. The game's schedule is not your/our schedule.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
Permenant patron power pools is just *WRONG* on so many levels.
I'm sorry, but not allowing respec is just going to have people starting all over again because they end up picking the patron power that sucks.
And please don't tell me some patron powers won't suck. We've all seen various power sets, both primary and secondary, that people don't pick because they are simply under powered.
And what happens if a particular patron power gets nerfed and changed to hell and back, are those players just stuck with those powers, even though those powers no longer resemble what the player originally signed up for?
Heroes can change their epic pool powers whenever they want, but villians can't?
We can't betray one patron for another?
I'm sorry, but thats just piss poor IMO.
- Pahbs
This thread reads so much better in swedish 
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
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You're working off of pure assumption
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Err, not pure assumption, but some hypothesizing based on the track record of the company. He's got some bias, but he's not crazy. His interpretation is about as valid as anyone else's. Well, except for the "wait and see - it'll be all right" crowd. 'Wait and see' is fair advice, but it doesn't have the sterling success rate one might think. The devs are pretty darn good at responding to actual feedback, not thumb-twiddling.
Revolver has said his piece and moved on now. I'm sure we'll all see some new info next week.
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This thread reads so much better in swedish
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hahaha... New bookmark for me. Good stuff!
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patron choice being permanent seems very interesting. it's part of the story, and it makes the game a lot interesting. good move devs =)
although i hope we can respec our power choises (not the PPP choice, but the power choises within the PPP) because i usually stuck to my APP anyway, and just re-ordered/got rid of powers i don't want.
this wouldn't be much different. just makes things more interesting.
giving us numbers definitely makes this a cool system. i hope it includes animation time and what not.
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Yeah, I would think that this will be allowed. As it would with your Primary and Secondary Powers.
I'm just curious as to how many powers you get in the PPPs. I would think 4 as it is with the APPs.
But only time will tell.
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What assumption?
What is being debated here is fact. Positron just freakin' posted that they would be permanent. His statement was pretty clear.
Fact: Villain PPPs will be permanent. Hero APPs are not.
Fact: Power tweaks will happen.
Fact: Some sets will be better than others, for various subjective reasons.
Fact: It's not like you can copy over to Test and try them out first. Unless you level to 50 without a PPP and then try them out.
I don't see how these are assumptions. They're perfect fodder for debate. Knowing what powers the sets have is irrelevant given the facts we have already.
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Wow, I was sympathetic to your post until this:
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These NPCs get better powers, costumes and options than the paying customers. I'm happy Statesman gets to recreate his favorite Champions adventures online, but he's doing so at the expense of my stories about my characters.
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Taking things a little personal and going round the bend, aren't you?
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How so?
Oh, you mean my little 'digs' at States. Sorries...I do that when I'm tired and annoyed.
Cal2
Have the devs said anywhere or even at any time that there will not be a respec, ever?
I don't think they have, but if they have please correct me.
If not being able to change our patron is intended to never be a 'respecable' option then don't you guys think there is a reason to do this that we don't know about yet? (like we know anything now.)
The devs don't look to make this game a piece of crap. This thing makes them money. They will continue to make decisions based on what they think will encourage people to stay and play and bring new people in. The few vocal ones that do leave really don't matter in the long run. My point is, their goal is not to make you miserable. Besides there are many much worse MMO's out there. I'm just glad the devs communicate as much as they do with us. I don't think they are saints but i know they could be worse.
This is of course my opinion which is likely to change for no apparent reason and is not intended to flame anyone.
We dont know what is contained in the Patron pools yet, how many powers exist, how similar they are to each Patron, etc...so its difficult to debate for now until we see it on Test to form our opinions on it.
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You might want to re-read his statement.
Will there never be an option to respec out of them? Who knows. Does it really matter? They won't be anytime soon.
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We dont know what is contained in the Patron pools yet, how many powers exist, how similar they are to each Patron, etc...so its difficult to debate for now until we see it on Test to form our opinions on it.
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It doesn't matter what they contain. I don't see why it's "difficult to debate." We've been given some facts about how the sets, in general, will operate. What they actually do is largely irrelevant in the context of this discussion.
If we ARE going to assume stuff, then I'll assume that the sets won't be any more or less similar than the current Hero APPs. Which is to say, they'll have a moderate amount of variation with only slight similarity.
Besides, I highly doubt each set will have flying shark attacks.
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I don't see how these are assumptions. They're perfect fodder for debate. Knowing what powers the sets have is irrelevant given the facts we have already.
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Err, I hope you're not explaining this for my benefit. I get it.
I just hit the first reply I saw... wasn't directed to you Clint 
You can debate over what you assume is valid but it wont help much until you see how it works.
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But it doesn't matter how it works! What if I decide, for example, that I actually hate the way Scorpion's Mace looks with my character?
Now I'm screwed in the A. What the damn Mace does doesn't make any difference.
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You can debate over what you assume is valid but it wont help much until you see how it works.
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Yep
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You can debate over what you assume is valid but it wont help much until you see how it works.
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I think the point is, if it was okay to discuss and debate CoV features prior to beta based on dev comments and article mentions, it doesn't seem outrageous to discuss/debate PPPs at this stage. There's virtually no talk about the specific powers, but there is enough info to discuss the pitfalls/virtues of non-respecable post-40 powersets. There are definite pros and cons. There was just that dustup earlier that took things to the extreme that was not constructive.
Additionally, if people had just shut up and played 'wait and see', Positron would might not have offered some clarification today. More info is good.
Well, when its on Test and you see how bad it looks, you can post your opinion because you've seen it in "action" 
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You're working off of pure assumption
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Err, not pure assumption, but some hypothesizing based on the track record of the company. He's got some bias, but he's not crazy. His interpretation is about as valid as anyone else's. Well, except for the "wait and see - it'll be all right" crowd. 'Wait and see' is fair advice, but it doesn't have the sterling success rate one might think. The devs are pretty darn good at responding to actual feedback, not thumb-twiddling.
Revolver has said his piece and moved on now. I'm sure we'll all see some new info next week.
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I'm just saying it's a bit difficult to reply with actual feedback that could be considered helpful when the feedback isn't based on factual knowledge. And posting an opinion based on past occurrences or based on likelihoods is like a right handed dart player tossing at the board with his left hand. Sure, he might get lucky, but the delivery is just too dependent on unknowns.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
I agree with you for on the 'how it works doesnt matter' argument.
The only thing that really matters is, since these things are permanent for the forseeable future what will happen when they are tweeked for balance.
Everything else is moot since it can be tested on the test server.
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But it doesn't matter how it works! What if I decide, for example, that I actually hate the way Scorpion's Mace looks with my character?
Now I'm screwed in the A. What the damn Mace does doesn't make any difference.
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Then you have the choice of not using the mace and just using normal pools (just like heroes.)
I'm 99% postive that the reason this isn't respecable is that it ties into your badge/souvenir rewards for the Patron Story Arc.
You do the story arc (now the *history* of your character) you have officially pissed off all of the other patrons and only the one you picked will be your sugar-daddy.
A decision with a consequence! My gosh!
How CoV where if you fail a mission, the contact tells you to take a hike and won't *ever* talk to you again?
I'm quite happy to see it, myself.
Still here, even after all this time!
Wow, I was sympathetic to your post until this:
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These NPCs get better powers, costumes and options than the paying customers. I'm happy Statesman gets to recreate his favorite Champions adventures online, but he's doing so at the expense of my stories about my characters.
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Taking things a little personal and going round the bend, aren't you?