[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another complaint: Why does consume drain so much less endrurance than it's Energy and Ice counterparts? You gain enough back, but it takes very little from the enemys.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't they recharge faster? 
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the end drains from Ice and Energy armor have a recharge of 60 sec. to Fire 180 sec. I'm not sure how that's fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
its because consume does damage! 
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if you're being serious. But you are aware that Invul gets defense and resistance pre-32? Invul is much better on Sm, Le damage, a lot worse on Fire, almost the same on Cold resists and worse on Eng, Neg.
But Invul also has defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
Er, unless it's changed recently, Fire/ gets 30% resistance base to En/Neg damage through one power. Invuln/ gets 17.5% through two powers. Even if you include the defense in Invuln against an average-sized group, that's hardly breakeven.
Comparably, Invuln/ gets 12.5% more Sm/Le resistances if my numbers are right.
I'd consider universally applicable benefits, for less of a power investment, and reliable powers to be well worth the defense difference.
But, yes, Burn needs to have some purpose attached to it.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another complaint: Why does consume drain so much less endrurance than it's Energy and Ice counterparts? You gain enough back, but it takes very little from the enemys.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't they recharge faster?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the end drains from Ice and Energy armor have a recharge of 60 sec. to Fire 180 sec. I'm not sure how that's fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do the Ice and EA versions deal damage?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another complaint: Why does consume drain so much less endrurance than it's Energy and Ice counterparts? You gain enough back, but it takes very little from the enemys.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't they recharge faster?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the end drains from Ice and Energy armor have a recharge of 60 sec. to Fire 180 sec. I'm not sure how that's fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do the Ice and EA versions deal damage?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, BETTER. They drain endurance (Ice also give slow resist and a slight amount of defense). Which is a heck of a lot better than a one brawl attack.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if you're being serious. But you are aware that Invul gets defense and resistance pre-32? Invul is much better on Sm, Le damage, a lot worse on Fire, almost the same on Cold resists and worse on Eng, Neg.
But Invul also has defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
Er, unless it's changed recently, Fire/ gets 30% resistance base to En/Neg damage through one power. Invuln/ gets 17.5% through two powers. Even if you include the defense in Invuln against an average-sized group, that's hardly breakeven.
Comparably, Invuln/ gets 12.5% more Sm/Le resistances if my numbers are right.
I'd consider universally applicable benefits, for less of a power investment, and reliable powers to be well worth the defense difference.
But, yes, Burn needs to have some purpose attached to it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sm, Le damage is more than 50% of the damage taken. It parses from 60-100% depending on villain group. Having a 12.5% advantage in Sm, Le is a lot better than a 12.5% advantage in Eng, Neg.
At best it's a wash and no reason to deprive Fire of KB protection (and useful Immobilize protection) a necessary predicate of tanking.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
No, BETTER. They drain endurance (Ice also give slow resist and a slight amount of defense). Which is a heck of a lot better than a one brawl attack.
[/ QUOTE ]
Eh, the endo drain on those powers is pretty useless. You're not sucking even a minion dry with them. At least the damage from Consume helps you defeat the mobs a touch faster (although most of them will heal it back up before you get to them).
The endo drain is semi-useful if you're teamed with an electric blaster or a Kinetics user, but that's certainly not the common case.
*Kidnaps _Castle_ and holds him in the Tanker Forums*
Good! Now we have one all for us. 
[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]
[url=http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114726][color=black][b][size=5]Moon [color=red]Hazard [color=black]Zone![/size][/color][/color][/color][/b][/url]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, BETTER. They drain endurance (Ice also give slow resist and a slight amount of defense). Which is a heck of a lot better than a one brawl attack.
[/ QUOTE ]
Eh, the endo drain on those powers is pretty useless. You're not sucking even a minion dry with them. At least the damage from Consume helps you defeat the mobs a touch faster (although most of them will heal it back up before you get to them).
The endo drain is semi-useful if you're teamed with an electric blaster or a Kinetics user, but that's certainly not the common case.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough, so let's just say the secondary effects of all three powers are pitiful and get to the real issue which is that the Ice and Energy powers have 1/3 the recharge.
Because there is NO way that a brawl damage attack justifies a 180 sec. recharge.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
a tank shouldnt need a self res
[/ QUOTE ]
Reading between the lines you're saying that tankers should never die.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a tank shouldnt need a self res
[/ QUOTE ]
Reading between the lines you're saying that tankers should never die.
[/ QUOTE ]
More like saying that tankers shouldn't expect to die more than other ATs that don't have self-rez powers.
"Here, take this self rez power instead of a power that helps you survive or kill things. You're going to need it."
It might be off topic but its the truth.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a tank shouldnt need a self res
[/ QUOTE ]
Reading between the lines you're saying that tankers should never die.
[/ QUOTE ]
More like saying that tankers shouldn't expect to die more than other ATs that don't have self-rez powers.
"Here, take this self rez power instead of a power that helps you survive or kill things. You're going to need it."
[/ QUOTE ]
"Here, take this self rez that if things go bad, you can get back up and try to get it back under control instead of lying around dead."
-- War
[ QUOTE ]
Healing Flames heal scale of 1.75 has not changed since I3. I didn't bother going back further than that -- a year is a good period of time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm.. Makes me think.
the history document for all the powers changes, tweaks, etc. stretching back into Beta must be monstrous by this point.
Wiki, save us!
[ QUOTE ]
Okie I want to ask a related question, also yay first post.
What about the fact that fire has 4 situational useless powers.
1 Temp protection... really useless... there isnt enough fire or cold for it to matter.
2 Fiery embrace... situational, unless you are fire/fire its usefullness is highly questionable.
3 Rotp..... a tank shouldnt need a self res and it doesnt even come close to being as good as granite or unstop
4 Burn... a power that deaggros mobs and makes them run and gets your team killed is questionable at best.
Also what about the contention that regen can take more damage over time than fire.
[/ QUOTE ]
Temperature protection helps out a bunch stacked with the other shields. It should have something like slow resist or +perception to make it worthwhile.
Fiery Embrace works just like a normal build up with an added bonus for fire attacks. It has the same length on regular attacks as Build Up but lasts longer for fire attacks.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a tank shouldnt need a self res
[/ QUOTE ]
Reading between the lines you're saying that tankers should never die.
[/ QUOTE ]
More like saying that tankers shouldn't expect to die more than other ATs that don't have self-rez powers.
"Here, take this self rez power instead of a power that helps you survive or kill things. You're going to need it."
[/ QUOTE ]
"Here, take this self rez that if things go bad, you can get back up and try to get it back under control instead of lying around dead."
[/ QUOTE ]
Hm, sounds to me like some people prefer powers that help in emergencies while others prefer powers that prevent emergencies. Isn't it nice that we have greatly varied powersets that people can choose from to suit their play style?
Translation: many people enjoy rise of the phoenix. If you want to play a powerset with a click unstoppable style power then do so. I see no reason to change RotP so that it's just like every other ninth power.
THANK YOU CASTLE!!!!!
Can I be your official fanboy?
As a fire tank.. let me mouth off abit.
Healing flames.. man. i sk'ed down to 23 the other day and i got the crap kicked out of me.. Flames recharges so damn slow and costs a ton for what little i healed. I'd love a buff. even just a shorted recharge for it...
Fire set needs some love. i really saw the lack of DEF in the set once i sked down.. i got smacked around hard by freakshow.. it wasn't pretty. i do hope the help us some
Right now the animation on HF is so long, that by the time it finishes "healing" you, you're quite likely to be at lower health from taking damage than when you clicked it. Most days you're better off running and hiding. Annoying for a brute, anathema to a tank.
I'm suspecting that not having Tough is what hurt you most with your exemplaring. When you ex down to 23, you still retain all your slots in every power you have at that level, and your enhancements should all be functioning as SOs. Healing Flames is going to heal the same percentage of your HP with the same recharge as it does at lvl 50. If Tough is one of the powers you normally run and you picked it up at a higher level than 23, the added damage you are taking without it is only illustrating the inadequacy of HF in its current form. I could comment about how a Tanker should not be required to take 3 power pools(Fitness, Leaping, Fighting) to be effective, but that is not the point of this topic. The power Healing Flames is the sole focus. Other issues with Fire Armor should be addressed in another thread, or directly discussed with a dev via PM.
[ QUOTE ]
Off topic.
[/ QUOTE ]
Look kids a deer
CoH - Paladin of The Knights of Justice - Without Justice, courage is weak.
CoV - Overlord of the Menagerie. Screw Justice, we're gonna eat your children!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another complaint: Why does consume drain so much less endrurance than it's Energy and Ice counterparts? You gain enough back, but it takes very little from the enemys.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't they recharge faster?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the end drains from Ice and Energy armor have a recharge of 60 sec. to Fire 180 sec. I'm not sure how that's fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
Even IF they fix healing flames fire tankers will still be left out in the cold. Their resistances are still very weak. I have posted this before but this change alone would make the set much more in line with other tankers:
sugestion to the air) and posted it on another thread. This is it:
This is what i'd do to boost fire without breaking concept:
Consume:
<ul type="square">[*]Add 5 resistance to all but psionics for the first enemy hit[*]Add 1.5 resistance to all but psionics for every enemy hit up to 10 enemies[*]This buff lasts 90 seconds[/list]
With 3 SOs the power recharges every 92.3 seconds so its never truly permable but darn close.
All these changes brings the fire tanker 79% as durable as an ice tanker against one even level enemy and 84% as durable as the ice tanker against 10 even level enemies. Im even leaving the to hit check in Consume, leaving a degree of randomness to the ability of getting the best out of the power (sloting for accuracy would force you to choose between making it slower recharge or yield a lesser resistance buff)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if you're being serious. But you are aware that Invul gets defense and resistance pre-32? Invul is much better on Sm, Le damage, a lot worse on Fire, almost the same on Cold resists and worse on Eng, Neg.
But Invul also has defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
Er, unless it's changed recently, Fire/ gets 30% resistance base to En/Neg damage through one power. Invuln/ gets 17.5% through two powers. Even if you include the defense in Invuln against an average-sized group, that's hardly breakeven.
Comparably, Invuln/ gets 12.5% more Sm/Le resistances if my numbers are right.
I'd consider universally applicable benefits, for less of a power investment, and reliable powers to be well worth the defense difference.
But, yes, Burn needs to have some purpose attached to it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Once you stack up resists and defesnses with I7 changes, invun mitigates about 76.4% of the incoming energy/element damage once he has 10 enemies arround.
Full comparation:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Enemies: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Mitigation: 46.11 49.52 52.92 56.32 59.72 63.13 66.53 69.93 73.33 76.74
w/dullpain: 66.11 68.25 70.39 72.53 74.67 76.81 78.95 81.09 83.23 85.37</pre><hr />
This is with 3 slots in each power.
Resistance for fire tankers to energy/n.energy would be 46.8
It only takes 2 enemies in melee range to make the invuln better than the fire against energies.
Edited to include mitigation with dull pain up
Is that including the -5% DEF debuff on Unyeilding Stance? That seems a bit high with only one person in melee.
Still here, even after all this time!
Heh, finally a dev takes the time to post on the tanker forum and what do we get?
A post who turns out to be wrong and then nothing???
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another complaint: Why does consume drain so much less endrurance than it's Energy and Ice counterparts? You gain enough back, but it takes very little from the enemys.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't they recharge faster?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the end drains from Ice and Energy armor have a recharge of 60 sec. to Fire 180 sec. I'm not sure how that's fair.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.