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Some one PM'ed me about this issue - and I've talked about Defenders a bit at conventions - so I thought I'd at least post something on them.
Basically, we've already committed to looking at several Archetypes and builds for I5 and afterwards, but I've said nary a word about Defenders. Why? Because of all the Archetypes, we're happiest with them. There are certainly issues with individual sets and powers - and those we're always looking at. Defenders, however, don't have any overarching problems.
BUT....I'm extremely concerned about the perception that Defenders "aren't needed" and thus "can't find a team" at high levels. Defenders should fill a valuable role at ALL levels and help Archetypes achieve levels that they can't reach by themselves. After all, Defenders are all about buffs (and debuffs). Every Archetype should be extremely happy when the Defender provides a resistance or defense buff...
Anyway, just wanted to post our view on Defenders right now.
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Just speaking from a bubblers viewpoint, while I do allow other Archetypes to achieve levels they can't on their own, I
myself am unequipped to go along with them. With maxed out bubbles only, I can grant someone close to a 96% DEF but myself only about 40%. So while they are off happily taking on AV's, +4 and up villians, I'm still struggling with even level villians. This creates a imbalance, IMO, with the team dynamics because it then forces one of two situations. Either the team has to spend more time keeping me safe (Assumming I'm not one shotted, blasted by a AOE or killed before the villian can be pulled off of me), thus slowing down the rate at which the team can move through mobs and thus earn xp, or they ignore me for the most part and I spend alot of time makeing trips back and forth from the hospital. I suppose I could just stand there and just bubble while doing my best not to draw any sort of aggro, thus reducing me to nothing more then a buff bot like a sky raider shield generator or a DE emmantor. But since when is playing shield generator or emmantor fun?
It's also not very practical to do since I either need to be up with the Tankers and Scrappers giving them the extra protection they need or if I'm back protecting the blasters and controllers opening myself up to AOE attacks against them. Plus just what am I suppose to do when the AV or +4 villian comes charging towards the blaster I'm protecting. Simply sit there and watch?
In terms of not being needed, while I'm sure alot of it is just perception, let me give you an example of how that perception can happen. Running a mission the other day against an AV, Envoy of shadows, with a team of heroes. Things are going well, I'm bubbling and draining (elec Secondary) and the team is crusing through the mobs of COT. Get to the room with the AV and run into a bit of trouble. There's a bunch of Earth Thorn Casters along with the Envoy and suddenly everyone got's 6 or more quicksands stacked on them. Everybody slows to a crawl and between the AV and the Earth Thorn Casters myself and the blaster go down. With no way to be revived I go to the hospital and race as fast I can back to the battle, figuring the teams going to need my DEF buffing to see them through the fight. So I get back to the cavern where the battle is taking place and what do I find? All the Earth thorn casters gone and the AV nearly defeated.
My immediate thought upon seeing that, "Oh. I guess they didn't need me after all."
Now I realize this is a somewhat skewed perception and that I did contribute to the fight, but its hard not to think that when you see things like this. In the big fight everybody wants to have something to cheer about, whether its the tanker saying "Did you see how I went toe to toe with that AV and he didn't even scratch me" or the scrapper "Man you should have seen how his hps dropped after my critical." or the blaster "Well you wouldn't have even got close to him if my AOE hadn't cleared out the room" or the controller "Not to mention that It's alot easier to hit something that's held in place" or the defender "Never mind that my buffs and debuffs turned you all uber".
However I think for some defenders, not all mind you, in the big fights or even some of the little fights they fell like all they have to say is "Well... I... face planted alot sparing you all from debt." or "I stood around and looked menacingly while you guys cleared the room.". After a few times of this its pretty easy to feel un-needed or useless. An while this is in no means unique to defenders, since I'm sure there are builds within each Archtype that have the same issue, I think defenders suffer more from this in the latter levels then others do. At least, that's the viewpoint from this bubbler.
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I was the 39 DM/DA scrapper at that particular fight, and hooo boy, it was interesting. After i noticed the earth thorns in the room, i ignored the AV until the ETC's were dead. Simply because they are so devestating, ETC's are now on the same level as sappers, because of their annoyance, although i think this is a good thing to an extent.
Part of the problem with FF bubblers is that you dont know the bubbles are their until they wear off, then all of sudden, oh crap, where are hte bubbles. And believe me synergy, as one of the gimpy scrappers, i love having an FF'er around, its awesome, it lets me not worry about dying.
Their are two types of defenders that i always welcome as a DM/DA, FF/*, Kin/*, and Emp/*, for the defense in bubbles, and endurance respectively. Dark is fine by me, means i get hit less, and can do more damage, and storm, eh, i can live without, nothing they do is very helpful for a scrapper.
I also play a kinetics defender. And even as the defender, other than speed boost, its tough to tell a buff is having an effect. Speed boost is Really obvious, and everyone knows when you ahve it, but, increase density, not so obvious. Making the defender buffs more obvious helps too.
Also, the buff lengths, 4 min is a long time. Makes doing your job much easier. But, that 4 min has no drawback, to make the game a little more interesting, and help balance it more, a couple of things that are ideas for overall game balance (dont know how doable some of these are)
I am thinking that all castable buffs and debuffs end when the defender dies or exemplars out of the level range.
But, some of the buffs speed boost and increase density (these are ones i know for sure) need to have their length increased, the 4 min number is thrown around a lot, because thats what bubblers have)
So, when your team defender dies, down go buffs and debuffs. This also effects the villain side too, so when a ETC goes down, so does his quicksand, same goes for madness mages, and death mages. So, this tweak cuts both ways, some semblance of balance.
But, with this, i think the defenders should get some self defense love, or in general, make them less squishy, to balance out them dying so fast, after all, Earth Thorn casters get rock armor, makes them a royal pain in the [censored] for any smashing/lethal heroes (read all scappers). Maybe, remove one, or many of the weaker blasts in the defender secondary, and replace with armor toggles, and/or mez toggles.
So, now, defenders get self defense, but dont have all the attacks that blasters have, futher differentiating the two. Then in the blaster secondary, through some defenses/mez protection in there, and suddenly the blaster secondary isnt a scapper set, and now the blaster also doesnt feel scared ******** when a enemy or group runs up to them.
Controllers - just need some damage pre-32 or something. i dont know. Maybe, in the controller secondary, throw a couple of low level blasts, like, take out the heals, give them even lower damage than defenders, but have the double/triple damage when held apply. This way, controllers get pre-pet love, but cant really outshine defenders too much, because they lose the buffage and especially, a lot of the heals?
Anyway, hi synergy, the AV wasnt too bad, its sucks he was two levels below me, otherwise, i love your bubbles ^_________^
signed - Morte
edit: another idea - also, how about making the damage cap from only yourself, then outside players can increase someone beyond the damage cap. This is already in effect with dark defenders and rad defenders. The -30% resist debuff makes an attacker at the damage cap, go effectively above the damage cap.
Maybe things like fortitude, and fulcrum shift will allow other players to go beyond the damage cap. This presents a problem with say, 8 person emp defender teams or 8 person kinetics, but, instead put another cap on top of that, something like another 100-150% damage cap on outside buffs? such that the buffs cant be exploited too much, but, that 100-150% will definately make the defender desired.
