[ QUOTE ]
Lothic,
Your post was concise, logical, compelling, and covered all the basic points of this debate. You supported your position very well. And you did it without being rude, insulting, petty, or childish.
As such, it has NO PLACE in this thread! Shame on you! 
[/ QUOTE ]
Forgive my ignorance of proper forum etiquette - I'm still relatively new to this. 
I will endeavor to become jaded, vague and abrasive to others soon as possible... 
P.S. Thanks 
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
[ QUOTE ]
As a quick summary to my position on this...
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to say that was a Very well thought out argument/rebuttal. I agree completely with you. Isolator for pre-I2 characters is not the same thing as the halloween badges for characters who started after that event.
If those and other badges like it, were still in the game somewhere... But you could only get them if you had started the character prior to the event happening... It might be consered the same thing. But that's not true.
Isolator still exists in the game, and the only reason some characters can't get it, is because it didn't exist when they were made.
Missing out on something because it was here for a limited time, and you missed it. Or missing it because you simply didn't know about it, is not the same thing as missing it because it didn't exist when you went though the tutoral.
[ QUOTE ]
I will endeavor to become jaded, vague and abrasive to others soon as possible...
[/ QUOTE ]
Well as long as you admit to your mistake and are trying to fix it... We'll let it slip this time.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that all badges are not meant to be obtained on one character.
[/ QUOTE ]
Rad,
Your logic is faulty. My 50 Controller, created in I1 has done all special events and received all the limited badges. With that being said, there are some badges like Charmed that I do not have, but I am working on it. Now for the point. Outside of the Isolator Badge, which would take an act of Congress to get, name a badge can I not get?
If you have an answer to that I will agree with your point that heros can not get all badges by design. This is the best reason to support an opportunity to get the Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
It has been explicility said by both GMs and Devs that badges are not meant to be obtained by one character. They do not flat out prevent you from getting any badge on a pre-i2 character save isolator. Nor did I not say it cannot be done. In fact quite the contrary:
[ QUOTE ]
These badges are still obtainable through the sidekick system. Which is why you don not hear the same type of ruckus over them.
[/ QUOTE ]
But, here is the answer to your challenge within the context of my post. Attempt to get the follow badges without the help of another hero within level range of the Trial or Task Force on a level 50 controller, Pre-issue 2.
Cavern of Transendance
Honorary Peacebringer
Burkholder's Bane
10 times the Victor
Cabolist
My point is that they should allow players to obtain all badges including Isolator as it could be seen as another form of that stickiness. They have expressed the view that they are not meant to be collected by one character and I was showing an example of it. The major difference between the previous Trials and Task forces is that a group higher level hero can start them without a level appropriate hero. This cannot be said in those areas.
--Rad
Edit: Added answer to question.
/whereami:
[ QUOTE ]
As a quick summary to my position on this...
I consider myself an avid badge collector using a character that's been around since CoH Headstart. I favor the idea that any existing character should have a reasonable chance to earn all badges they are eligible to earn. Once established, badges (and the means to earn them) should remain as unmolested as possible to maintain their core 'value'. I consider the by-design impossibility of pre-I2 characters to have had the chance to earn Isolator to be a gross oversight. I believe that -something- should be done by the Devs to address this shortsighted design mistake of Isolator. I have proposed a workable retroactive compromise for Isolator several times in this and other threads...
Supporting as you say a 'double standard' for Isolator is in fact perfectly logical and reasonable because the circumstances surrounding it are completely unique in the history of CoH. Now whether or not you support a new means to get Isolator -and- other past event badges that your character was not around to get is immaterial. The fact that your character (or you as a player) may not have been around to get past event badges is not anyone's 'fault' per se and was not a problem with the design of the game system itself. This is how Isolator is unique. In its case players were effectively punished -for- being in the game before Issue 2 and badges existed at all. This is why a supposed double standard for it is practically called for, because addressing a correction or reparation for an obvious design flaw/oversight is the only justifiable action the Devs should take in the matter.
I feel for your point of view, I really do - I missed out on the 2004 Halloween badges because I was overseas on a business trip at the time. Of course I would jump at the opportunity to earn these badges if they were offered up again, but to be honest I really don't feel entitled to them and won't actively ask the Devs to provide them.
Why you ask? Because I firmly believe in maintaining the intrinsic value of badges. Right or wrong, agree or not, event badges have had short windows of opportunity to earn them. If you missed them you missed them. It's the only fair way to accept it - if the Devs start allowing currently ungettable badges to be earned again where would the backtracking and revisionism end? What would be the point to spending time earning badges when you could just wait a few months for the requirements to become simpler or the 'one time' badges to return? Thanks but no thanks...
That's why my compromise for Isolator doesn't in fact involve any change to it or the means to get it at all. Post-I2 people spent the time to earn it properly, and people who didn't know about it can't really complain. I kinda think it's stupid that the Devs basically force people to seek 3rd party info online to learn about badges, but these things are as they are. Introducing and applying a new, retroactive accolade to all pre-I2 characters as a replacement for isolator is really the cleanest, simplest solution the Devs have at their disposal. The Devs are already introducing 'seniority' event badges such as Celebrant and the announced 2nd year anniversary badge, even going as far as to be granting a gladiator to people who have both anniversary badges. One could easily consider my accolade idea to be a 'zeroth year anniversary' badge (like an Issue #0 of a comic book) to recognize those people who have been here since the beginning. If all pre and post Issue 2 characters could at least potentially have an equal number of badges, then I think most could accept the shortsighted mistake the Devs made with implementing Isolator and move on.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for your reply, let me ask you this :
Why do you think it would damage the "intrinsic value" of the Halloween badges if the devs were to make it available in future Halloweens? Why would it lessen the meaning of Winter Lord if it is made available in Winters? Does it mean that the devs had defaced the value of Cold Warriors already?
Consider this analogy :
An olympic athelete trained all of his life and earned a medal in a supposed one-time world event. But ten years later the olympic committee decides to hold this event, which they said was going to be one-time, once again. As a result, a second athelete earned another medal.
Tell me, how does the fact that a second athelete earning a second medal lessen the meaning, value or significance of the work that the first has done? Does it make that first medal somehow less than it was?
If you get something that is TRULY devalued, like a pirated copy of a software, or taking something that doesn't belong to you, the only thing that is devalued is yourself, perhaps your view of oneself, or your soul if you believe in such a thing. For those of us who have EARNED a badge, we already know that its instrinsic value can never be changed by the someone else's action. But if the issue is that it makes those who already have the badges feel more special when others do not have them, then isn't it fair to say the problem lies in those people instead?
The inherent design flaw made by the devs is that they made rewards for a Halloween and Winter event applied to a specific Halloween and Winter. It is as short sighted as not allowing pre-i2 people to get Isolator. Both have the inherent problem that the said design precludes a group of players from getting the badges, regardless of how much they want to work to EARN it.
Finally, I got the Heart of Darkness badge a month ago. If they choose to make it available next Valentine's, it would not lessen the meaning of that badge for me. But if I feel that way, the problem is with me, not with someone else's.
The only thing worse than devs making bad decisions is the hoard of fanboys and bootlickers that keep cheering them on.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that all badges are not meant to be obtained on one character.
[/ QUOTE ]
Rad,
Your logic is faulty. My 50 Controller, created in I1 has done all special events and received all the limited badges. With that being said, there are some badges like Charmed that I do not have, but I am working on it. Now for the point. Outside of the Isolator Badge, which would take an act of Congress to get, name a badge can I not get?
If you have an answer to that I will agree with your point that heros can not get all badges by design. This is the best reason to support an opportunity to get the Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
It has been explicility said by both GMs and Devs that badges are not meant to be obtained by one character. They do not flat out prevent you from getting any badge on a pre-i2 character save isolator. Nor did I not say it cannot be done. In fact quite the contrary:
[ QUOTE ]
These badges are still obtainable through the sidekick system. Which is why you don not hear the same type of ruckus over them.
[/ QUOTE ]
But, here is the answer to your challenge within the context of my post. Attempt to get the follow badges without the help of another hero within level range of the Trial or Task Force on a level 50 controller, Pre-issue 2.
Cavern of Transendance
Honorary Peacebringer - got it
Burkholder's Bane - got it
10 times the Victor - got it
Cabolist - got it
[/ QUOTE ]
Rad
I guess what you ment and what you said are 2 differnt things. If you ment not all badges can be earned by single player, you did not include the important word...."Solo". Of course you can't earn those on your own, nor can you earn any giant monster badges, mentor badges & healing badges and for that matter you cant get the "Top Dog" badge if you can jump or fly.
What the dev or GMs say means little in the point. The fact is you are flat out wrong. With enough desire and play time, my 50 can earn every badge, which some would require working with a team. I knew this to be true when I saw a 50 lvl Scrapper with all the healing badges... got it through the Medical Pool. I'm sure it took a very long time.
You still have not shown me a badge I can not earn, except the Isolator.
Set match
[color=yellow]Great Mephesto - 50 - Ill/Emp Controller - Liberty Badges 342
Cremospecter - 50 - Fire/Fire Tanker - Liberty Badges 158
[color=orange]All Hollows Eve -50 Dark Mastermind - Freedom Badges 352
[color=orange]Mad Houdini - 39 - Eng/Regen Stalker - Liberty Badges 156
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that all badges are not meant to be obtained on one character.
[/ QUOTE ]
Rad,
Your logic is faulty. My 50 Controller, created in I1 has done all special events and received all the limited badges. With that being said, there are some badges like Charmed that I do not have, but I am working on it. Now for the point. Outside of the Isolator Badge, which would take an act of Congress to get, name a badge can I not get?
If you have an answer to that I will agree with your point that heros can not get all badges by design. This is the best reason to support an opportunity to get the Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
It has been explicility said by both GMs and Devs that badges are not meant to be obtained by one character. They do not flat out prevent you from getting any badge on a pre-i2 character save isolator. Nor did I not say it cannot be done. In fact quite the contrary:
[ QUOTE ]
These badges are still obtainable through the sidekick system. Which is why you don not hear the same type of ruckus over them.
[/ QUOTE ]
But, here is the answer to your challenge within the context of my post. Attempt to get the follow badges without the help of another hero within level range of the Trial or Task Force on a level 50 controller, Pre-issue 2.
Cavern of Transendance
Honorary Peacebringer - got it
Burkholder's Bane - got it
10 times the Victor - got it
Cabolist - got it
[/ QUOTE ]
Rad
I guess what you ment and what you said are 2 differnt things. If you ment not all badges can be earned by single player, you did not include the important word...."Solo". Of course you can't earn those on your own, nor can you earn any giant monster badges, mentor badges & healing badges and for that matter you cant get the "Top Dog" badge if you can jump or fly.
What the dev or GMs say means little in the point. The fact is you are flat out wrong. With enough desire and play time, my 50 can earn every badge, which some would require working with a team. I knew this to be true when I saw a 50 lvl Scrapper with all the healing badges... got it through the Medical Pool. I'm sure it took a very long time.
You still have not shown me a badge I can not earn, except the Isolator.
Set match
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you read either post? I said all of them could be obtained using the sidekick system ... in both posts. Nor did I say solo. Try to do the same thing with a team where all members that were higher then the level of those zones before the respective zone was added. This is my point.
These zones are designed to prevent higher level characters from getting the badge without the assistance of a level appropriate hero. This to me at least, is reinforcement of the idea that one character is not meant to get all badges. If you don't agree with that opinion that is fine. But, I don't understand the point you are trying so hard to prove.
--Rad
Edit: Oh and the ones you indicated that you got. You got those within that context right? Without a level appropriate hero to start the TF? Because I have them too. But, all were with the help of a hero within level range.
/whereami:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You still have not shown me a badge I can not earn, except the Isolator.
Set match
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you read either post? I said all of them could be obtained using the sidekick system ... in both posts. Nor did I say solo. Try to do the same thing with a team where all members that were higher then the level of those zones before the respective zone was added. This is my point.
These zones are designed to prevent higher level characters from getting the badge without the assistance of a level appropriate hero. This to me at least, is reinforcement of the idea that one character is not meant to get all badges. If you don't agree with that opinion that is fine. But, I don't understand the point you are trying so hard to prove.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
A post-I2 character, started before the halloween event can earn every badge, including Isolator.
A pre-I2 character can also do so, with the exception of Isolator.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You still have not shown me a badge I can not earn, except the Isolator.
Set match
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you read either post? I said all of them could be obtained using the sidekick system ... in both posts. Nor did I say solo. Try to do the same thing with a team where all members that were higher then the level of those zones before the respective zone was added. This is my point.
These zones are designed to prevent higher level characters from getting the badge without the assistance of a level appropriate hero. This to me at least, is reinforcement of the idea that one character is not meant to get all badges. If you don't agree with that opinion that is fine. But, I don't understand the point you are trying so hard to prove.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
A post-I2 character, started before the halloween event can earn every badge, including Isolator.
A pre-I2 character can also do so, with the exception of Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never said that was not the case.
--Rad
/whereami:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You still have not shown me a badge I can not earn, except the Isolator.
Set match
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you read either post? I said all of them could be obtained using the sidekick system ... in both posts. Nor did I say solo. Try to do the same thing with a team where all members that were higher then the level of those zones before the respective zone was added. This is my point.
These zones are designed to prevent higher level characters from getting the badge without the assistance of a level appropriate hero. This to me at least, is reinforcement of the idea that one character is not meant to get all badges. If you don't agree with that opinion that is fine. But, I don't understand the point you are trying so hard to prove.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
A post-I2 character, started before the halloween event can earn every badge, including Isolator.
A pre-I2 character can also do so, with the exception of Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never said that was not the case.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
Um... just what are you two arguing about?
You both agree that pre I2 toons cannot get isolator, & that it is possible to get all other (hero) badges on any (hero) toon in some fashion.
Just wondering...
[ QUOTE ]
Um... just what are you two arguing about?
You both agree that pre I2 toons cannot get isolator, & that it is possible to get all other (hero) badges on any (hero) toon in some fashion.
Just wondering...
[/ QUOTE ]
I was wondering the same thing which is why I indicated that I don't understand the point he is trying prove.
--Rad
/whereami:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You still have not shown me a badge I can not earn, except the Isolator.
Set match
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you read either post? I said all of them could be obtained using the sidekick system ... in both posts. Nor did I say solo. Try to do the same thing with a team where all members that were higher then the level of those zones before the respective zone was added. This is my point.
These zones are designed to prevent higher level characters from getting the badge without the assistance of a level appropriate hero. This to me at least, is reinforcement of the idea that one character is not meant to get all badges. If you don't agree with that opinion that is fine. But, I don't understand the point you are trying so hard to prove.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
A post-I2 character, started before the halloween event can earn every badge, including Isolator.
A pre-I2 character can also do so, with the exception of Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never said that was not the case.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
Um... just what are you two arguing about?
You both agree that pre I2 toons cannot get isolator, & that it is possible to get all other (hero) badges on any (hero) toon in some fashion.
Just wondering...
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry... answering the bolded text above. You seem to be arguing that one character is not meant to get all the badges, yet any post I2/pre Haloween character had/has the ability to earn every single available badge.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You still have not shown me a badge I can not earn, except the Isolator.
Set match
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you read either post? I said all of them could be obtained using the sidekick system ... in both posts. Nor did I say solo. Try to do the same thing with a team where all members that were higher then the level of those zones before the respective zone was added. This is my point.
These zones are designed to prevent higher level characters from getting the badge without the assistance of a level appropriate hero. This to me at least, is reinforcement of the idea that one character is not meant to get all badges. If you don't agree with that opinion that is fine. But, I don't understand the point you are trying so hard to prove.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
A post-I2 character, started before the halloween event can earn every badge, including Isolator.
A pre-I2 character can also do so, with the exception of Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never said that was not the case.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
Um... just what are you two arguing about?
You both agree that pre I2 toons cannot get isolator, & that it is possible to get all other (hero) badges on any (hero) toon in some fashion.
Just wondering...
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry... answering the bolded text above. You seem to be arguing that one character is not meant to get all the badges, yet any post I2/pre Haloween character had/has the ability to earn every single available badge.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't disagree with that. I conceed that point. Though I never said otherwise. Hopefully, with that concession we can move on.
--Rad
/whereami:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You still have not shown me a badge I can not earn, except the Isolator.
Set match
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you read either post? I said all of them could be obtained using the sidekick system ... in both posts. Nor did I say solo. Try to do the same thing with a team where all members that were higher then the level of those zones before the respective zone was added. This is my point.
These zones are designed to prevent higher level characters from getting the badge without the assistance of a level appropriate hero. This to me at least, is reinforcement of the idea that one character is not meant to get all badges. If you don't agree with that opinion that is fine. But, I don't understand the point you are trying so hard to prove.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
A post-I2 character, started before the halloween event can earn every badge, including Isolator.
A pre-I2 character can also do so, with the exception of Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never said that was not the case.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
Um... just what are you two arguing about?
You both agree that pre I2 toons cannot get isolator, & that it is possible to get all other (hero) badges on any (hero) toon in some fashion.
Just wondering...
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry... answering the bolded text above. You seem to be arguing that one character is not meant to get all the badges, yet any post I2/pre Haloween character had/has the ability to earn every single available badge.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't disagree with that. I conceed that point. Though I never said otherwise. Hopefully, with that concession we can move on.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
OK.... I just feel strongly about the opprotunity of the Isolator badge. It stands there mocking me like a carrot on a string behind a glass. not to mention, Tho shalt not covet thy neighbors badge.
I just addressed that point that we were not "MENT" to have all badges. It IS my desire to get all of them even if it takes me to the end of my days. I have such a shallow life.
Ok just kidding
[color=yellow]Great Mephesto - 50 - Ill/Emp Controller - Liberty Badges 342
Cremospecter - 50 - Fire/Fire Tanker - Liberty Badges 158
[color=orange]All Hollows Eve -50 Dark Mastermind - Freedom Badges 352
[color=orange]Mad Houdini - 39 - Eng/Regen Stalker - Liberty Badges 156
[ QUOTE ]
OK.... I just feel strongly about the opprotunity of the Isolator badge. It stands there mocking me like a carrot on a string behind a glass. not to mention, Tho shalt not covet thy neighbors badge.
I just addressed that point that we were not "MENT" to have all badges. It IS my desire to get all of them even if it takes me to the end of my days. I have such a shallow life.
Ok just kidding
[/ QUOTE ]
SWDamocles, the sad thing is we are arguing for the same thing. The devs have said that one character is not meant to have all the badges. I just think it is a mistake on their part.
--Rad
/whereami:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OK.... I just feel strongly about the opprotunity of the Isolator badge. It stands there mocking me like a carrot on a string behind a glass. not to mention, Tho shalt not covet thy neighbors badge.
I just addressed that point that we were not "MENT" to have all badges. It IS my desire to get all of them even if it takes me to the end of my days. I have such a shallow life.
Ok just kidding
[/ QUOTE ]
SWDamocles, the sad thing is we are arguing for the same thing. The devs have said that one character is not meant to have all the badges. I just think it is a mistake on their part.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't recall them saying that about the badges. I do know they don't intend for one character to experience all the content. For example, there are numerous times where, if you do one contact, you are locked out of another contact.
[ QUOTE ]
Why do you think it would damage the "intrinsic value" of the Halloween badges if the devs were to make it available in future Halloweens? Why would it lessen the meaning of Winter Lord if it is made available in Winters? Does it mean that the devs had defaced the value of Cold Warriors already?
[/ QUOTE ]
Let me clarify what I mean by the "intrinsic value" of the badges in this game. The Devs established the game mechanics and requirements needed to earn the various badges. It is the system that is in place. Now established, there's a reasonable expectation that we can rely on that the requirements for these will remain constant and stay consistent to the system as much as reasonably possible. All players should be allowed a fair and reasonable opportunity to satisfy any requirements, no matter how hard or restrictive. The level of effort to gain said badges is fixed by design - the 'value' of a badge is fundamentally linked to what it takes to earn them and little else.
Now I think we are agreed that the specifics of Isolator are grossly flawed. It's the only badge in the game that truly merits some corrective action because it was uniquely allowed to be unfairly unobtainable by an arbitrary subset of active players. This is clearly a problem - the solution to it, as we've seen by the length of this thread, is debatable.
I believe the core of your argument concerns itself with another segment of badges which the Devs, for good or bad, have decided to incorporate as part of their requirements to be earned a real world timeframe, thus limiting their availability based strictly on time. Now while I'll agree that the decision to do this may be shortsighted all things considered, it differs from the faults of Isolator because there was nothing, by design, that kept -any- player from earning them when they met the established requirements. Nothing 'failed' to keep anyone from earning them so there is nothing 'broken' to be fixed. They were implemented fairly because no player was shut out from the possibility to earn them as established.
One slight quibble with your Olympic event analogy that is pertinent to our discussion is what are the two medals called? My point is that the first medal could easily be named 'Gold Medal of Event X of the year Y' whereas the second medal could be 'Gold Medal of Event X of the year Y+10'. Same event, same requirements, different medal (even if time earned is the only difference). Or what if the first athelete competed in the second event and earned the Gold Medal again? Would the Olympic committee not give him a second medal because he already had that exact one from before? A distinction is this case would almost be required. World War I was called The Great War before World War II happened to make it the 'first' one. Any repeated event badges would almost certainly have to be (or at least easily could be) renamed by the Devs to distinguish them - not exactly what you had in mind I'm sure.
Cold Warrior was probably repeated because as a fairly straight-forward defeat critter badge there's nothing really unique about it unlike Celebrant or Toy Collector for instance. I wouldn't be surprised to see Frostlings become a permanent enemy type in the game eventually - the fact that it -was- repeated may be a spoiler for that plan.
[ QUOTE ]
For those of us who have EARNED a badge, we already know that its instrinsic value can never be changed by the someone else's action. But if the issue is that it makes those who already have the badges feel more special when others do not have them, then isn't it fair to say the problem lies in those people instead?
[/ QUOTE ]
While I sympathize with you or others who weren't around when some of these time-limited badges were offered, I can't see the need to change them 'just because' you failed/weren't around to meet the establish requirements, irksome as that may be to you. Its not about the haves vs. the have nots, its about meeting established requirements that we all live by, period. Remember this affects me too because I'm effectively arguing against my own ability to pick up the Halloween 2004 badges that I missed. Im not arguing this position because -I- want to keep -you- from having badges. I take this position because I've seen too many disasters in game systems when the various Devs involved began to slide down the slippery slope of revisionism. What happens next if the Devs essentially give up on their 'one-time' badge concept? Someone else will then argue that PvP badges are unfair to PvEers and then we'll lose those. Then another person will push the idea that defeat badges take too many defeats to be earned and the numbers will be slashed - thus diminishing their 'intrinsic value' further (like they already unfortunately did with Zookeeper). Do you understand the concept now? No ones actions -in game- can adversely affect others, but appealing to the Devs to change the system may have far reaching implications that could ripple back to cheapen other players badging efforts or narrow the diversity of options available. Even my 'solution' for Isolator involves no actual changes to it directly, thus mitigating risks caused by unnecessary tinkering...
This issue really has very little to do with players affecting each other, but more in maintaining the overall value of the time and effort all players put into their badge earning. Limited timeframes may be a questionable mechanic for the awarding of badges, but there is nothing flawed or wrong with their use per se from a game design point of view. Having said that, I'm not hypocritical enough to tell you I would deny myself the Halloween 2004 badges if they were offered again. The ball's in the Devs' court on this and they could certainly decide to backslide on their original intent to keep their one-time event badges. I'm not necessarily against the Devs trying to add or improve things - if they handled the change well enough, such as renaming badges to distinguish between separate events, I could even learn to accept it. Unfortunately that's a big 'if'...
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
[ QUOTE ]
I don't recall them saying that about the badges. I do know they don't intend for one character to experience all the content...
[/ QUOTE ]
/agree
The devs have stated that didn't intend for one character to experience all the content. They have never stated that one character can't get all the badges.
Go Pro-Isolators!!
Fusion Force
[ QUOTE ]
I don't recall them saying that about the badges. I do know they don't intend for one character to experience all the content. For example, there are numerous times where, if you do one contact, you are locked out of another contact.
[/ QUOTE ]
My memory may be fuzzy. But, I am sure this has been stated by a Dev in another one of these threads about Isolator. But, I can barely remember yesterday so, I may be wrong about one of the numberous threads relating to this issue over the past year. Regardless of that, actions certainly indicate that since some cannot get the Isolator or Special event badges. 
I could also argue that badges are content. But, I won't take the easy way out.
--Rad
/whereami:
A Followup to the blue house post:
Green House
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't recall them saying that about the badges. I do know they don't intend for one character to experience all the content...
[/ QUOTE ]
/agree
The devs have stated that didn't intend for one character to experience all the content. They have never stated that one character can't get all the badges.
Go Pro-Isolators!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I believe it was positron that stated a character is not intended to have every badge. And just because it's not that way now doesen't mean they don't eventually plan to have it set up that way.
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I believe it was positron that stated a character is not intended to have every badge. And just because it's not that way now doesen't mean they don't eventually plan to have it set up that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well... The devs say a lot of things, don't they? (How are your skills studies going at the University of Paragon, BTW?)
It is my hope that they never make any more badges that my main cannot get, or God forbid they create some that are mutually exclusive with others. I think they need to realize that while some of their customers are altaholics, some of us are collectors and completists. There's no good reason why they can't serve both populations.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I believe it was positron that stated a character is not intended to have every badge. And just because it's not that way now doesen't mean they don't eventually plan to have it set up that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well... The devs say a lot of things, don't they? (How are your skills studies going at the University of Paragon, BTW?)
It is my hope that they never make any more badges that my main cannot get, or God forbid they create some that are mutually exclusive with others. I think they need to realize that while some of their customers are altaholics, some of us are collectors and completists. There's no good reason why they can't serve both populations.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, I hope they DO make badges that are mutually exclusive. It'd be an excellent way to "customize" your character, by showing what choices he or she has done over the years.
And thanks to some corrospondance courses with the University of Paragon, I learned VCR repair!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I believe it was positron that stated a character is not intended to have every badge. And just because it's not that way now doesen't mean they don't eventually plan to have it set up that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well... The devs say a lot of things, don't they? (How are your skills studies going at the University of Paragon, BTW?)
It is my hope that they never make any more badges that my main cannot get, or God forbid they create some that are mutually exclusive with others. I think they need to realize that while some of their customers are altaholics, some of us are collectors and completists. There's no good reason why they can't serve both populations.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, I hope they DO make badges that are mutually exclusive. It'd be an excellent way to "customize" your character, by showing what choices he or she has done over the years.
And thanks to some corrospondance courses with the University of Paragon, I learned VCR repair!
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I agree in that the more customization the better, but that sounds more like something the skills system would bring. I myself see the badges as showing how much of the game one character has completed. I would LOVE to have character choices in the game, but to me badges shouldn't have to be that confined.
I agree, Isolator stands as a unique case. It alone remains a badge that pre-existing characters (that is characters made before it was implemented) cannot get. Anyone with an active account during Halloween 04 had the ability, the potential if you will, to get those badges.
If you were not paying for an acount when those special events came and went, too bad. For those that had accounts but missed it for some reason. Well its unfortunate that you had no one that you could trust with your acct to get them. RL has to take precedence over a game.
On a side note, I strongly disagree with getting special event gladiators. While additional gladiators effect one type of event in a small part of the game, it still makes a difference in play. Special events and their badges should never affect play of any sort. (Yes I have the gladiators btw).
Special event badges should be baubles. Anything that effects gameplay in any way, should remain in game.
~Liberty~
The LEGION (CoH) - The Fallen LEGION (CoV)
Forget your fears and want no more
50's - Renkoro, Remorseless
~Virtue~
Angry Angels / Jaded Angels
Global - @Puretone