i personally have never had to struggle to earn influence in COH because of heroes handing out inf/money inthe form of gifts/or costume comps etc so people never had to struggle...the devs always [censored] and moan and say woe is me influence isnt meant to be money, but guys get over it...IT IS and so is INFAMY...currently EVERYONE in the game is poor, we do missions like bank jobs/casino robberies and expect a huge INFAMY bonus, but we get the same INFAMY as any other mission...WHY IS THAT? why when i rob a bank i get the same infamy/money as i do stealthing a find the glowie mission...risk vs reward...dont make me laugh...allow us to transfer money from our COH chars...i mean teller machines for those with money to transfer it across...or increase the infamy rewards for people doing these so called special heist missions...so people are encourgaed to do them for extra money...get over the notion that imfamy/influence is not money because it is... get the economy fixed up... 
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Two possibilities not knowing your particulars:
1. Debt makes you rich. If you have not died as many times as you did in CoH, you will have less inf.
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This is true.
And since you can't get debt until level 10, that's 5 more levels where there's no debt.
Many of us are used to going through the low levels when you could start getting debt at level 5 and we did and that meant that it took about twice as long to get from 5 to 10 as it does now. And that means that essentially we have half as much influence as we did then.
Just something to think about.
I'm 100% behind the debs making it so that 50% of the enhancement drops are for your origin no matter what. The way it currently is in the low levels you can live off TO drops because everyone can use them.
But once you start to get out of using TO drops (around lvl 20 i'd say) pretty much all the enhancement drops are completely useless. Most of the time they won't be for your origin and when they are they aren't even usually one that you can use. On those rare occasions that they're a kind that you can use they aren't the right level 
I think if they made at least some kind of percent that they would definitly be our origin it would make it a bit kinder so we could actually USE the dropped enhancements for something other than selling
Ouch, I thought it was 34. 24 seems early, players don't really start having more money than they'll ever need to spend until around 30.
Scorus
Will turn into the have and have nots with SGs AND the players in them. A bigger SG will let players split time between gaining infamy/influence and prestige as they grow. This allows players in the larger groups the chance to gain more infamy/influence therefore more SOs. Factor in such thing as base raids and loss of equipment and the ability to recover the prestige to replace and the gap widens.
Is a broke and poorly implemented system. Penalizes a small group of friends that wants to play together towards a come one come all group(or a very aggressive recruiting group). Avengers have had huge membership and rosters, FF has had 4 with only a few coming in as temp replacements, yet who probably would have more "prestige".
Some are legends because of their posts, others just post becoming legends in their own mind.
[i]I refuse to have Numina regen/recovery envy.
heh, villains should be able to mug (;threaten) civvies for like 1 inf each. That should about balance the piddly rewards that rescuing civvies in CoH gives.
Want more inf? Get Defeated! Want to avoid outlevelling content? Get Defeated! Time to crank the Difficulty back up to Invincible...
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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And since you can't get debt until level 10, that's 5 more levels where there's no debt.
Many of us are used to going through the low levels when you could start getting debt at level 5 and we did and that meant that it took about twice as long to get from 5 to 10 as it does now. And that means that essentially we have half as much influence as we did then.
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Quoted for truth. Moving the first debt level up to 10 plus halving the debt cap was a huge nerf to inf gain for new characters.
On my previous characters, I went into perma-debt from 5 until inf stopped being an issue (generally around 30), and could more or less afford the essential slots plus some to most of the rest, depending on the build. Now, debt starts later and wears off faster (half cap). In CoV, add that to the missing bonuses for street hunting plus the lack of rich high-level villains to hand out infamy to anyone they happen to like, and it adds up to people having trouble trying to keep even their core enhancements up to date.
Tech support IRL, CLR/DRU/MED/WHM/PRI/DEF. Hmm, I sense a pattern...
S 80% E 80% A 40% K 0%
A few of my alts
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The reward tables for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
The store definitions for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
You don't start giving up Inf. for Prestige until level 24.
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Does this go for enhancement drops too? I don't question that the infamy vs. influence is about the same, my problem is the enahncement drops seem very light in CoV. In CoH I can complete a mission and get at least 5 or 6 enhancement drops from it. Many times in CoV though I come out of the mish with 1.
Okay, unless they've changed the drop methods since CoH Beta, this should be accurate:
Enhancement Drop Percentages
Enhancements drop (are acquired from the enemy) based on the level of your foe. Lieutenants and Bosses drop enhancements based on their true level, but have a higher chance of a drop than minions. The default drop is a training enhancement, but dual-origin and single-origin enhancements become available at higher levels. Some foes drop specific categories of enhancements for example, the Tsoo drop Focusing Devices (mutant/magic origins) at higher levels.
Generics that drop from level 1 to 19 will be Villain Level, VL-1, or VL-2.
Generics that drop from level 20 to 29 will be Villain Level, VL+1, or VL-1.
Generics that drop from level 30 to 40 will be Villain Level, VL+1, or VL+2.
Dual Origins that drop from level 15 to 29 will be Villain Level, VL-1, or VL-2.
Dual Origins that drop from level 30 to 40 will be Villain Level, VL+1, or VL-1.
Single Origins will always be Villain Level, VL-1 or VL-2.
Training (Generic) Enhancements drop exclusively for foes of levels 1 to 14.
Level 15 to 19 foes have a very rare chance (roughly 1 in 200) of dropping a dual-origin enhancement.
Level 20 to 24 foes occasionally drop (roughly 1 in 4) dual-origin enhancements.
Level 25 to 29 foes occasionally drop dual-origin enhancements (same as level 20 to 24), but also have a very rare (roughly 1 in 200) chance of dropping a single-origin enhancement.
Level 30 to 40 occasionally drop (1 in 4) a dual origin enhancement and occasionally drop (1 in 4) a single-origin enhancements. This means that these foes drop training enhancements roughly half the time, with the other half having an equal chance of a dual-origin or single-origin enhancement.
So, that should give you an idea of what you'll get when you fight a particular foe.
Getting More Infamy
Throughout the game, you will get the majority of your Infamy from selling enhancements. Make sure to sell them at the right store - trainings should be sold at the Quartermaster, while origin-specific enhancements should be sold at a store matching that origin. This can make a rather large difference in the amount of Infamy you gain.
Pay attention to the level breaks - they'll tell you the best foes to fight to get Infamy. For example, at level 17, you can fight level 15 foes (green to you) to get a better XP/Infamy ratio. However, at level 20, you're better off fighting equal-level foes, because it is far more likely for a dual-origin to drop from a level 20 than a level 18.
Fighting at higher difficulty levels will generally give you a worse XP/Infamy ratio, though it can be worthwhile if 'playing up' pushes you past one of the break points mentioned above.
At level 22, if you need more Infamy for SO's, go out and find level 20 foes - preferably lieutenants or bosses. The foes should be fairly easy to defeat, with lots of groups in the area. Do this for an hour or so, and you should have significantly increased your Infamy. Fighting opponents two levels below works at other levels (I used it to quickly raise Influence at level 12 to buy dual-origins), but is particularly effective at level 22 because of the break point for dual-origin drops.
Hope this helps...
so far the early game in CoV "feels" about the same to me as the early game in CoH did, before you could get a ton of influence from your high level friends.
the dribs and draps from rescuing people are a difference, and there should be some CoV equivalent (mugging people, getting to keep "a taste" of our bank heists, whatever).
But overall, it seems pretty similar to me.
Regarding debt starting at 10th level, I'm happy to trade whatever debt-based infamy I'd have gotten under the old system for getting to 14th faster. You can never get your travel power too soon, IMHO.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
When I and my friends started with CoH we didn't have any high-level patrons to fund us. Even now (well over a year later for me) our highest level characters are not even 40 (we play a lot of characters, and we play socially/casually).
While we do now have enough influence to get by, for most of our characters it was a constant struggle, and we got a load of influence from a pair of level 40s who were leaving the game (a few million only, but we made it stretch), and a few characters have won costume contests along the way. We should not have to rely on those sorts of handouts, I think.
I think the apparent reliance on high-level income is a flaw in the planned economy of the game. It has seemed that way from the start. CoV is simply making that more obvious to those who have been funded by high-level heroes in CoH for some time.
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Okay, unless they've changed the drop methods since CoH Beta, this should be accurate:
Enhancement Drop Percentages
Enhancements drop (are acquired from the enemy) based on the level of your foe. Lieutenants and Bosses drop enhancements based on their true level, but have a higher chance of a drop than minions. The default drop is a training enhancement, but dual-origin and single-origin enhancements become available at higher levels. Some foes drop specific categories of enhancements for example, the Tsoo drop Focusing Devices (mutant/magic origins) at higher levels.
Generics that drop from level 1 to 19 will be Villain Level, VL-1, or VL-2.
Generics that drop from level 20 to 29 will be Villain Level, VL+1, or VL-1.
Generics that drop from level 30 to 40 will be Villain Level, VL+1, or VL+2.
Dual Origins that drop from level 15 to 29 will be Villain Level, VL-1, or VL-2.
Dual Origins that drop from level 30 to 40 will be Villain Level, VL+1, or VL-1.
Single Origins will always be Villain Level, VL-1 or VL-2.
Training (Generic) Enhancements drop exclusively for foes of levels 1 to 14.
Level 15 to 19 foes have a very rare chance (roughly 1 in 200) of dropping a dual-origin enhancement.
Level 20 to 24 foes occasionally drop (roughly 1 in 4) dual-origin enhancements.
Level 25 to 29 foes occasionally drop dual-origin enhancements (same as level 20 to 24), but also have a very rare (roughly 1 in 200) chance of dropping a single-origin enhancement.
Level 30 to 40 occasionally drop (1 in 4) a dual origin enhancement and occasionally drop (1 in 4) a single-origin enhancements. This means that these foes drop training enhancements roughly half the time, with the other half having an equal chance of a dual-origin or single-origin enhancement.
So, that should give you an idea of what you'll get when you fight a particular foe.
Getting More Infamy
Throughout the game, you will get the majority of your Infamy from selling enhancements. Make sure to sell them at the right store - trainings should be sold at the Quartermaster, while origin-specific enhancements should be sold at a store matching that origin. This can make a rather large difference in the amount of Infamy you gain.
Pay attention to the level breaks - they'll tell you the best foes to fight to get Infamy. For example, at level 17, you can fight level 15 foes (green to you) to get a better XP/Infamy ratio. However, at level 20, you're better off fighting equal-level foes, because it is far more likely for a dual-origin to drop from a level 20 than a level 18.
Fighting at higher difficulty levels will generally give you a worse XP/Infamy ratio, though it can be worthwhile if 'playing up' pushes you past one of the break points mentioned above.
At level 22, if you need more Infamy for SO's, go out and find level 20 foes - preferably lieutenants or bosses. The foes should be fairly easy to defeat, with lots of groups in the area. Do this for an hour or so, and you should have significantly increased your Infamy. Fighting opponents two levels below works at other levels (I used it to quickly raise Influence at level 12 to buy dual-origins), but is particularly effective at level 22 because of the break point for dual-origin drops.
Hope this helps...
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Thanks, appreciate the information, and it tells me some things I did not know before 
. Quick follow-up though, what is the overall percentage chance for an enhancement to drop? For example, after fighting my way through an entire mish, shouild I not have more than 1 or 2 enahncments?
I recall quite painfully levelling up my first CoH character. I made pains to sell DOs to the correct DO store, and there were no costume slots to splurge on.
This feels very similar to that. I expect things to pick up around level 30-something.
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And since you can't get debt until level 10, that's 5 more levels where there's no debt.
Many of us are used to going through the low levels when you could start getting debt at level 5 and we did and that meant that it took about twice as long to get from 5 to 10 as it does now. And that means that essentially we have half as much influence as we did then.
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Quoted for truth. Moving the first debt level up to 10 plus halving the debt cap was a huge nerf to inf gain for new characters.
On my previous characters, I went into perma-debt from 5 until inf stopped being an issue (generally around 30), and could more or less afford the essential slots plus some to most of the rest, depending on the build. Now, debt starts later and wears off faster (half cap). In CoV, add that to the missing bonuses for street hunting plus the lack of rich high-level villains to hand out infamy to anyone they happen to like, and it adds up to people having trouble trying to keep even their core enhancements up to date.
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Wow, I can't believe someone pulled out the Inf Nerf card! **boggle**
When they announced the debt not starting till level 10, no one screamed, "This will destroy how we gain influence!"
The amount of Influence you gain from debt pre 10 is very minor compared to the debt influence you get post 20.
I think before, when my character got debt after level 5, I was able to afford about 5 DO at level 12.
People also say that CoH has been around for a year and that there are players who offer influence at AP for costume contests....well there are 3 zones that heroes can interact with villians. I've not tried this and can't test it since I'm at work, but maybe you can xfer inf from your hero to a villian there?
Go forth, earn your Infamy. Day one of CoH had to do the same thing.
So far , im getting a lot more money when im playing solo at heroic setting than when in team fighting red/purple mobs .
Alone , i get all the enhancement drops and it takes about only 10 minutes to get through a mission and get a reward .
No downtime , no waiting for other players , with the newspaper i get to choose which enemy group i want to fight ( i always go for the sky raiders , freakshows or councils ) and i often get missions that spawns in warehouses which are pretty much all within 500 yards of each others .
Things go fast and since its at heroic setting , my defense slotting isnt much important ( spawns of 3-4 are easily manageable ) .
At level 25 , my Brute got SOs in every slots and i now have save 120k already to buy my first level 30 SOs when ill hit lev 27 .
Also , leveling speed is still fairly quick ( even at heroic ) since it takes me 10 minutes to complete a mish and it takes about 3 mish for a bubble at lev 26 .
It will take me about 300 minutes to gain a level ( 5 hours ) , probably less since ill get story arc rewards on the way .
No , so far i cant complain , and i even spent 65k at lev 26 to finally get a decent second costume .
I still play in Sg mode and collect all salvage i can get ( maybe someday itll be worth influence to someone if i need ) .
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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Thanks, appreciate the information, and it tells me some things I did not know before . Quick follow-up though, what is the overall percentage chance for an enhancement to drop? For example, after fighting my way through an entire mish, shouild I not have more than 1 or 2 enahncments?
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That I don't know - it was never revealed in beta to my knowledge. I've had good and bad days for drops, but the best way to maximize them is to take on lieutenants and bosses, preferably ones 2 levels below you for maximum speed in defeating them.
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And since you can't get debt until level 10, that's 5 more levels where there's no debt.
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Inf gain for the first 12 levels is, if you optimise it, about 40-45k. Of that, about half of it is gained between 10 and 12.
You're basically losing 20k or so from no debt at the newb levels (assuming you deliberately perma debt, it's never been so hard that you'd be in perma debt naturally) - 3-5 DOs or, if you save, a single cheap (ie, not acc/dam/heal/recharge) SO.
It's not really that big a difference short term and it's pretty much neglible in the medium-to-long term.
Original Poster:
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Does this just seem off to anyone else? Its either the rewarding, or the prices, but DOs and SOs are nigh impossible to come by in CoV.
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Yeah, my feeling is that good stuff drops less, and I'm not getting as much for my drops as I used to.
My level 18 stalker only can afford a few level 20 enh and the rest are all 15 and ready to go down the tubes as soon as I level again.
This isn't just in CoV but in CoH as well. My level 42 toon used to get SO drops all the time... and yesterday all I pulled in was a bunch of TRAINING enh plus a few DOs... and I don't think I'm getting as much for them either at the specialty shops.
What gives? (Talk about being kicked when you're already down...)
Also , with ED , i think slotting is alot less important ( especially when you keep soloing at Heroic setting ) . As long as i keep my Accuracy and Stamina SOs up to date , pretty much everything else is merely a bonus that i dont really need to complete my own missions with ease . I think any ATs can manage to defeat spawns of 3 whites using mere Generic enh in CoV . I only start needing my defences when im joining big teams and most of the time , the defences are still bad even with SOs when i habve to deal with red/purples mobs which are pretty much a waste of time and cause lot of casualties and downtime in the teams that have hardtime managing these fights .
Once again , if people were less greedy for xps and werent playing too much with the difficulty slider , theyd realise that villains really dont require optimal SO slotting to progress in game .
I told the devs one year ago that Influence trading was somehow a non-sense ( How can someone trade his influence/reputation to someone else ? ) and i still think it is . Influence/infamy shouldnt be a currency . How is it exciting to get enhancement drops when your toon already has all the influence/infamy he could ever need because someone gave it all to him right at start ?
Thats my opinion .
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
Caligari wrote:
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I think the apparent reliance on high-level income is a flaw in the planned economy of the game. It has seemed that way from the start. CoV is simply making that more obvious to those who have been funded by high-level heroes in CoH for some time.
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This man speaks the truth. The monetary rewards in CoH for low-levels were always too low, hence the reliance on gifts from high-level characters. Now CoV is making this flaw obvious.
Infamy (and influence) rewards need to be increased at low levels, significantly increased. And given the new desire to earn Prestige, I highly doubt much needs to be done at high levels to reduce inf rewards. I think infamy will be a continuing problem for villains of all levels.
My villain is almost level 20, and after buying a grand total of 10 DOs, I have only 100k infamy. No costume changes, very few inspirations. That's just ridiculous.
Something is definitely off. I don't get nearly as many drops as I used too. And I am LVL 19 now, gotten a DO drop once. I definitly can't afford enhancements the way I used to be able to with my corruptor. And yet my Brute doesn't seem to be having a money problem at all.
I think you guys need to take a closer look at what's going on in there. I'm sure it's supposed to be the same as CoH but it's off.
CoH - Paladin of The Knights of Justice - Without Justice, courage is weak.
CoV - Overlord of the Menagerie. Screw Justice, we're gonna eat your children!
This thread is more likely to provoke some new limit on giving away influence than it is to increase infamy payouts.
I read somewhere that the original intention was that players would trade enhancements. I would like to see more in game tools in this direction. Perhaps a place at the universities could be designed for this. There's a request channel, but that is more often used for team requests than trading requests, and if you make a trading request, you're likely to be met with silence. The in game society wouldn't know how to start a trading economy at large. If they had a push in this direction, then we could be trading our useless DOs and SOs for useful ones, instead of selling then buying, at a loss.
To me, everything seems just about the same as it did in CoH. I didn't buy TOs, I only bought a couple DOs at 15, and then saved for SOs because I was leveling so fast. I bought about 7 SOs at 22, and it took until 25 to have enough to slot all my basics. I don't expect to have more infamy than needed until the mid/late 30s, and even then I'll be in SG mode most of the time, so I doubt I'll get much past what I need at lvl 40. It's a nice change from CoH to actually have to work to get my toon some enhancements, it's like christmas after every mission when I can afford one SO
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The reward tables for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
The store definitions for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
You don't start giving up Inf. for Prestige until level 24.
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You don't get all the rewards that are available in COH as you do in COV. No drug bust or mugging rescues to gain extra infamy in COV like there is in COH so no it is not the same rewards.
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The reward tables for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
The store definitions for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
You don't start giving up Inf. for Prestige until level 24.
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I certainly appreciate this clarification, Posi. I do want to elaborate on one issue that has been lightly touched upon in this thread.
Okay, so I know that money does not equal infamy or prestige ... I am cool with that, of course. My complaint is that my villain feels very poor due to his lack of infamy and his small SG's lack of prestige, even though he has supposedly stolen millions of dollars already (I am level 14) according to the text in my mission descriptions/rewards.
It would be great if you could think of ways for our villains to reap the benefits of these millions. I mean... a heist really has no luster for me at this point. I steal money... but it is utterly useless (and not even officially quantified as far as I know) and then get relatively modest Infamy/Prestige bonuses for the "heist". Certainly no more rewarding than a typical mission.
Summary: I personally don't mind scraping Infamy together to buy my enhancements, but I woould like to feel somehow rewarded (villainously, of course) for all this cash I am stealing. Additionally, the prestige cost of base stuff is prohibitive (IMO) for small (themed and such) SG's.