Infamy Rewards...
FYI for those that didnt know:
Sell the specific types of enhancements at the specific types of sellers! i.e. nat/mag DO's at a natural or magic quartermaster. Also, sell your training enhs at only the "quartermasters" (NOT origion specific). In part it works like COH, and I have checked and they do give you more inf if you sell them specifically.
And... I guess this all is just forcing the cov economy more into trading and such... but then what are the odds that two people about the same levels having two trade worthy enhancements? Not likely to see this until lvls 30+ if it happens at all.
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the reason for more influence in coh is that you get them for helping the civilains on the street. Cov does not have that perk.
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Are you sure? I could have swore that I saw myself getting infamy just by killing on the street... I could be wrong, but I could have swore that I saw it, even just last night in port oaks...
Never enough Infamy of course...
But yeah I am about where I was in CoH. Maybe slightly less. That is the downside of not dying very often. Less Infamy.
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Also to consider is now players will have to choose between Prestige or Infamy once they hit level 25. Seems to be an increasing 10% drop in Infamy with each level in VG mode past level 25. Something players haven't had to do before, make a choice.
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I can tell you right now - Boo to SG Mode!
Gotta look out for # 1, and get my SOs and Infamy!
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
The other change from "the old days" is that mission XP bonuses are much higher than they once were, as is per-mob XP past the mid 20s. Both of these things mean fewer enhancement drops/level, which results in less influence/infamy.
And in CoV you don't get the reward from rescued civilians - it all adds up (or doesn't, in this case).
Synchrotron, level 50 Radiation/Radiation Defender
Fighting crime on Champion since 2004
On my brute:
By level 12 I had just a smidgen over 40k inf (my MM just hit 12 and he's got a similar amount). Slotted up attacks with an acc each, and some end redux for my toggles (was hurting for endurance). Spent the influence I got during level 13 as it came in to add some damage resistance to my shields. Then started saving for level 17/18 when 20s would be usable.
By 17 I had about 60k saved (might've been more, but no higher than 80k) and slotted some more damage resistance, saving the rest for 18. At 18 I was able to update/combine almost all of the enhancers I got at 12 and by 19 I had everything except pool powers and resist physical slotted with DOs. At 20 I started to get DO drops, some of which I could use, the rest I sold. My regular teammate is a different origin, so we swapped any the other could use too.
By 22 I had enough (215k) to afford 4 accuracy SOs and 5 dam res SOs. Coulda gone the other route and got 2 or 3 damage SOs instead of the damres. My DOs were mostly still operable, though a couple went red on 22 (since upgraded though). One mission yielded about 7 DOs I could sell (that was a particularly good mission). Story arcs are giving SOs too now (my last one did anyway). I suspect by 30 my important powers and maybe a few auxilliary ones will be kitted with SOs.
This was all done by being very vigilant about selling enhancements (I sell if my enhancement inventory was more than 50% full after a mission, to ensure it doesn't get full halfway through a mission forcing me to throw the cheaper ones away) and making sure I sold to the correct vendor (science to science, mutant to mutant, training to quartermaster, etc).
The net result is that I am slowly but surely improving my enhancement loadout (a few DOs will likely go red in a level or two, but I can afford to buy new DOs and hold off on the SOs a mission or four longer if I don't get drops to replace them - and 4 or 5 of them are from drops as it is). I'm also having to make some hard choices about what to enhance - I could have more accurate attacks, or one or two harder hitting attacks, better shields or cheaper shields, etc. At no point have I been feeling weak either, so no worries there.
In short, I suspect all of this is working as intended. It's certainly very similar to my first character's experiences back at CoH release.
edit: it does mean "slot levels" are even less of an event than they are with my influence filled hero alts though, since there's a good chance I can't afford to fill those slots for a while.
it all comes down to saving infamy by selling 100% or spending it as u go along on white/green enhancements.
one way leads to being marginally stronger initially; while the other leads to a big step in powers increasing at DO or SO time.
Shadow_step gave the best advice so far in this thread. Do not try and buy SO:s at 22, instead buy a full set of DO:s. Then upgrade key-powers with SO and at 32 you might be able to afford a full SO-set.
I've done most of the tricks mentioned in this thread. Sell whenever I can, and to the right QM. I've tried to not slot every slot with DO's. I still have a lot of training now at 20 in less important powers. Still at level 18 I had 75% red enhancements. When I hit 19 I deliberately suicided and played the whole level at perma-debt just to catch up. Now when I hit 20 last night I still had 3-4 enhancements red. I am doing what most people here mention and still I don't have enough inf to upgrade. This will be a nightmare at 24-25 when these enhancements go red. I guess I'll have to keep playing in perma-debt. :/
Wish I had an answer for you MagrothJ, but that's not happened to any of my characters yet (had three up to level 20+ if you count beta). I really don't know what's happening differently for you :S
Devs, one question:
Where the hell is our Infamy when we robbed the bank, or heist? Risk=waves of ambush, reward=not able to even get DOs. Sad, but true!!
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I think you are all spoiled with being financed by your SG or alts in CoH. Prices are the same as is the drop rate and mission rewards.
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I haven't checked the prices in CoH recently, but I remember that Heal and Damage enhancements were the priciest in CoH; in CoV, Accuracy enhancements are more expensive than either Heal or Damage enhancements. Do a comparison; you'll likely find other differences.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
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the reason for more influence in coh is that you get them for helping the civilains on the street. Cov does not have that perk.
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Are you sure? I could have swore that I saw myself getting infamy just by killing on the street... I could be wrong, but I could have swore that I saw it, even just last night in port oaks...
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With the newspaper/broker system to ensure a transfinite number of available missions, the devs were able to reduce the number of random street mobs in the Rogue Isles, so you don't have a cluster of 2-5 mobs every half-block the way you do in CoH, so going out and street sweeping isn't as attractive.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
The reward tables for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
The store definitions for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
You don't start giving up Inf. for Prestige until level 24.
Positron
Follow me on Twitter
I'm still broke 8(
Why the tradeoff? Seems really restrictive to those who want to practice tradeskills, for example, but don't have a hug sg to earn the 150 X 3 for the control, energy, and workshop rooms, pluse the 250K for the cheapest generator to power them all, the cost of the control devices, and THEN the worktable.
Isn't there a public workshop that people can use who aren't in Uber SGs?
Personally, I think the whole tradeoff of Influence/infamy for prestige sucks. Especially since it's so hard to earn enough to buy SOs already without higher level people helping you out.
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The reward tables for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
The store definitions for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
You don't start giving up Inf. for Prestige until level 24.
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Except that there are no "rescue citizen" street rewards in CoV.
Which in turn means that anyone doing any hunting in the streets will earn a bit more inf (and insp) in CoH than CoV.
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You don't start giving up Inf. for Prestige until level 24.
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More like don't start giving up Influency/Infamy for Prestige until level 51! HECK!! Who is this character who earned 1 Million Influence at level 24 anyway that is the minimun amount you are allowed to convert to Prestige?! I would Like to know there secret.
Lets see, for 1,000,000 Influence/Infamy I can get a whole lot of Single Origins to outfit my character with OR exchange it for enough Prestige to by two realy nice light fixtures to decorate my Entrance Room with. I mean they really make that little 3x3 room look so nice. Maybe I will splurge and get a wall painting to go with it.
I think I will stick with keeping the Influence/Infamy, Thank You. If the conversion rate was bumped up a decimal placement then I'll actually think about it, but as now its a very bad joke and no one is laughing at it on this side.
It would be a nice offset if we could get triple infamy rewards from heists... I mean, we ARE robbing a bank/casino/etc.
It would offset the fact that we don't have random civies running up to us and giving us inf when we save them.
But infamy is definitely a problem in CoV, and it doesn't look like rednames want to address it. Sure, you may be on the same "table" as CoH, but that means jack when your ways of earning infamy are less than those in COH when gaining influence.
Come on Positron.
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The reward tables for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
The store definitions for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
You don't start giving up Inf. for Prestige until level 24.
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Well yes.. That may be true NOW. The real question is, did you make ANY changes to Influence rewarded in CoH from say I4 to I6 so that it is less? If you did, then it would match CoV, but without stating that you made changes to CoH that would be carried over into CoV you're sort of leaving out a big part of the equation. I do notice less Infamy. Alot actually it seems. Or the prices have gone WAY up or something to that effect with CoV. So truthfully, have the prices gone up with enhancements or has the influence been decreased in CoH that would decrease it in CoV, which would make them "the same", yet we were never told of the change to one that would effect the other and are just being told they are the same for both CoH and CoV but without the added details of being lowered? I really hate having to ask things this way, but I know how sneaky you devs are. "Oops, missed patch notes!" "We never intended..." "That isn't fun... This is fun", etc etc.
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The reward tables for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
The store definitions for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
You don't start giving up Inf. for Prestige until level 24.
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While this is cool and all, I think thought needs to be put into infamy for villains.
Villains don't have the extra gain of infamy that citizens give heroes after rescuing them. It seems minor, but it really does add up after a while. So unless this is addressed somewhere else that I have not noticed, it means that villains /do/ in fact have less infamy than heroes have influence.
Two possibilities not knowing your particulars:
1. Debt makes you rich. If you have not died as many times as you did in CoH, you will have less inf.
2. Sell enhancements to the appropriate stores. This includes Trainings. It makes a huge difference.
I'm betting on (1). My main is a CoH blaster who has never had a problem buying enh. My scrappers, however, had a long period of being poor between 17-24 because they hardly ever die.
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The reward tables for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
The store definitions for CoV are the exact same ones as CoH.
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Once again the complaints are falling on deaf ears. First Recluse blew them off, then Statesman, now Positron.
WE ARE STILL BROKE.
Without hordes of powerleveled 50s handing out millions of Inf., the reward scales are not adequate!
After fighting tons of bosses (more Inf.), selling every drop, and staring at empty slots for countless levels, I should be able to fill more than 1/10 of my slots! CoV poverty is, in my mind, a far worse blow than ED. ED doesn't even affect me if buying 6 enhancements is a pipe dream.
Maybe after War Witch, pohsyb, _Castle_, geko, Ravenstorm, Weaver-1, poz, Weirdbeard, and Gaffer pop in to tell us everything is working as intended... maybe then they will wise up and fix the reward scales.
No offense is meant to Positron. I am simply getting frustrated with the Inf. issue. "Everything's the same as CoH" is a cop-out, and is inherently incorrect. Everything is not the same as CoH, since heroes have been around for 1.5 years and had better reward scales/easier farming for a very, very long time.
I remember when I hit level 22 with my first character, a Dark/Regen Scrapper. I had about 100k above what I normally should have thanks to a costume contest win and another guy that decided I had a cool character. Other than that, everything I had was hard earned. I managed to outfit my character with about 3/4 SOs (attacks, defenses) and 1/4 DOs (secondary powers). By the time I hit 23, I was 100% SOs. I have no idea how I ended up with enough cash for all that.
Now with my lvl 25 tanker, I'm still trying to scrape together enough cash to even fill his slots. I have a 5 slotted Dull Pain that I haven't been able to afford enhancements for. I'm really not sure what his problem is, other than I haven't been getting origin appropriate DOs (or ones that I already have SOs for). The handful of SOs I've gotten from missions have been mostly unusable because they were for oddball stuff (confuse, to-hit debuffs, slow). I did get one lvl +1 damage SO, which I happily slotted in my "finisher" attack.
Now my Fire/Kin has been a victim of the respec. I started her two freespecs ago and I was determined to not waste them. I don't know what I was thinking, but after the last one I was sorely short on cash. Most of her slots are empty after buying accuracy DOs for her crucial attacks. She also suffered a weird bout of recieveing virtually no enhancement drops; over the course of six missions, I've recieved five(!) whole training enhancements! And about as many Inspirations... yuck.
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the reason for more influence in coh is that you get them for helping the civilains on the street. Cov does not have that perk.
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Far more missions give enhancement rewards in CoV than in CoH. I think this balances it out a little, unless you primarily street hunt.