How come we have no red servers yet???
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2005-11-01 20:08 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
And I maintain the opinion that every nerf in this game since issue 1 only mildly impacted a casual gamer. I've teamed with casual gamers. I was a casual gamer back in issue 1. My powers were slotted for recharge, end use, range, and then damage and accuracy. I would have never even seen ED if I remained truly casual.
Is a hard level grind now? Not moreso than it was back when the game first was released. Maybe even less so now. Back then, all you had was the regular contacts. You would most likely be stuck doing a lot of saving DE from lawyers over and over again until you hit 35 and got new contacts. At least now we have the Hollows, Striga, and Croatoa to help give you more story arc content without having to resort to filler missions.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
I also don't feel any less relaxed or casual about this game than before. I think a lot of these subjective experiences are based on pre-determined biases or intellectual criteria more than anything else.
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I love it when people pull numbers out of their ... you know where.
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I wasn't pulling numbers out my [censored]. I was simply questioning someone else having quoted subscriber statistics. Granted, not in this thread, but even in this thread they are claiming numbers are up/down/steady and not saying where they got the info. Perhaps you should read the post before making a snide and back-handed insulting response to it.
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I think they were reffering to the numbers you through out of a few thousand. 5 minutes of research and math would show that to be untrue.
Log onto COH at prime time 6PM PST. Do a global search. Odds are you will see 800 to 1200 people logged on to each server. I think there are ABOUT 10 servers. That means 8000-12000 people are logged on at prime time, Many people play only a few times a week or later at night or earlier, etc. Thus one can quickly make a guestimate that the numbers MUST be 30,000 OR more.
As for source a reading of this thread or a search would reveal the source of the numbers. Statesman himself has mentioned the source. One is www.mmogchart.com/ though as was pointed out to him this is out of date. It show 100,000 - 180,000 depending on time period. More recent numbers are also listed with the most recent being 150,000 or so subscribers.
As for the accuracy of these numbers they are released in quarterly reports. Falsification of these reports = federal crimes. While the numbers MIGHT be fudged by 5-10% using neat acounting meathods I can't see much more then that.
I hope that clarifys why some may be a bit upset by your claim of 5000 or so.
I don't take it personally and I hope this post is taken as statements to try to clarify information for you and others, and in no way is it meant as a flame.
Take Care
Belldandy - Protector Server
PS All numbers are what I remember, and are accurate +/-10% go back and read the messages for EXACT figures.
Pardon any typos
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I also don't feel any less relaxed or casual about this game than before. I think a lot of these subjective experiences are based on pre-determined biases or intellectual criteria more than anything else.
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Spot-on.
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What's great is that people have been saying we're ddddoooommmeeedd since launch, and yet surprisingly, here we are.
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When I buy a non MMO game, I play it for a week or two. Most MMO games I buy I play once or twice and discard. A few I've played for several months. But CoH I've been playing since it launched and don't plan to stop.
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You summed up my feelings exactly.
I don't like ED much either, but I understand why the Devs keep tweaking things for balance. Then again, I stopped playing both my regen scrapper and my fire tanker well before they were nerfed because they were so overpowered it wasn't fun.
Zaphod's just this guy, you know.
Well this has been an interesting thread. Seems like it is done though. Its all ED talk now. I will say this I have learned a bit. I hadnt thought of how this would apply to Asian sales. It makes a bit more sense with that in mind.
Another thing that might make sense is when you see people refering to casual players they MIGHT mean all of us old min/maxers who can only play 15-20 hours a week (far from casual actually) that dont want the game to turn into (random fantasy MMORPG) in tights.
Tried to be on topic briefly at least but heres my post on ED. It was a poorly considered nerf IMO. I agree that nerfs were needed. Certain powersets needed huge nerfs. However, I felt that global nerfs were not the way to go because they didnt address the problems with individual powersets and powers that were the actual problem.
Oh and I am sick of redesigning not only my own 12 characters but my exwifes 2 dozen or so. (That last is really more my problems than States but hey I can be irrational for a moment cant I?)
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I'm going to defend States here briefly. And then, as I am wont to do, complain a bit about what he's done. 
CoH/CoV is doing well. Cryptic is a small development company, and they are competing against big guns like Blizzard and Sony, and they are doing moderately well at that.
The game's focus has changed, and perhaps it needed to change. While it was focused on immersion and exploration, it has shifted to achievement and competition. Exploration only keeps players entertained for so long, it seems, and I'm sure they will hold more subscribers by re-gearing toward the tried and true MMOG classics of level grinding and player-made content via PvP. Those classic playstyles will serve CoH well in theupcoming asian release, as the lucrative asian game parlors are designed for heavily competitive games like Lineage.
I am upset that the game has changed. I preferred the casual, relaxed play that CoH originally had. I also detest hard level grinds and have no interest in PvP. So the game has shifted out from under me, and it's no longer my kind of game. That's sad, but it is probably more financially sound to have the same kind of game as everyone else rather than something innovative and casual.
CoH used to be unique, but only moderately successful. I'm sure that it will become much more successful in the future, now that it is being changed into Lineage-in-Tights.
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As someone who has played Lineage 2, I can guarantee that CoH/CoV is nowhere near "Lineage in tights". Now, I'm not a fan of PvP... however, it makes sense (Seeing as how villains and heroes clash regularly in comics), and (Heres the important part) NOTHING is forcing you to participate in PvP.
Theres no Serverwide, completly open PvP. You can't be sitting around in atlas and suddendly get stabbed from behind by the 50th level "HughNutZack" or "URMOM". Hell, the ONLY thing you have to do is visit a PvP zone for five seconds (Without even leaving the safe area) and even THAT is going to be changed soon(tm) so that you don't even have to ENTER the zone.
We are even going to be getting the newspaper tech in CoH, so we don't even have to worry about street sweeping anymore. So, to claim that CoH is becoming "Lineage in Tights" is Erroneus at best, and an outright lie at the worst.
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As someone who has played Lineage 2, I can guarantee that CoH/CoV is nowhere near "Lineage in tights".
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Quite correct, and since it hasn't been said yet: Clearly we're Pong-in-Tights.
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So, to claim that CoH is becoming "Lineage in Tights" is Erroneus at best, and an outright lie at the worst.
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It's neither of those -- it's a statement of opinion. Nothing more.
When I say that CoH is becoming Lineage-In-Tights, I'm referring to my opinion as to the financial focus of the game. It used to be aimed at casual players and superhero fans. Now it is being aimed at PvP players and the competitive Asian market. It's just a change of design philosophy. The gameplay has not changed that dramatically, but it has changed enough that many people who loved the previous philosophy of the game loathe the new changes.
Just my opinion. Nothing you say will change it -- you cannot convince me that I like what City of Heroes has become. Nor will I convince you that the changes are detrimental to the game, because you like the way the game has changed. We apparently like different kinds of games. Congratulations, things went your way.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
Like it or not, people have been clamoring for PvP zones since the days of CoH Beta. I feel the devs have went the best route possible: the zones are completely optional. No one is forced to PvP. No one is punished for PvPing instead of PvE. As far as PvP is concerned, this is probably the easiest way to introduce it into a casual gamer element. If it were a total shift to PvP and Asian Markets, we'd see whole PvP servers open up.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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I love it when people pull numbers out of their ... you know where.
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I wasn't pulling numbers out my [censored]. I was simply questioning someone else having quoted subscriber statistics. Granted, not in this thread, but even in this thread they are claiming numbers are up/down/steady and not saying where they got the info. Perhaps you should read the post before making a snide and back-handed insulting response to it.
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I think they were reffering to the numbers you through out of a few thousand. 5 minutes of research and math would show that to be untrue.
Log onto COH at prime time 6PM PST. Do a global search. Odds are you will see 800 to 1200 people logged on to each server. I think there are ABOUT 10 servers. That means 8000-12000 people are logged on at prime time, Many people play only a few times a week or later at night or earlier, etc. Thus one can quickly make a guestimate that the numbers MUST be 30,000 OR more.
As for source a reading of this thread or a search would reveal the source of the numbers. Statesman himself has mentioned the source. One is www.mmogchart.com/ though as was pointed out to him this is out of date. It show 100,000 - 180,000 depending on time period. More recent numbers are also listed with the most recent being 150,000 or so subscribers.
As for the accuracy of these numbers they are released in quarterly reports. Falsification of these reports = federal crimes. While the numbers MIGHT be fudged by 5-10% using neat acounting meathods I can't see much more then that.
I hope that clarifys why some may be a bit upset by your claim of 5000 or so.
I don't take it personally and I hope this post is taken as statements to try to clarify information for you and others, and in no way is it meant as a flame.
Take Care
Belldandy - Protector Server
PS All numbers are what I remember, and are accurate +/-10% go back and read the messages for EXACT figures.
Pardon any typos
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Now THIS was a constructive, informative and intelligent reply. Hats off to you.
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So, to claim that CoH is becoming "Lineage in Tights" is Erroneus at best, and an outright lie at the worst.
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It's neither of those -- it's a statement of opinion. Nothing more.
When I say that CoH is becoming Lineage-In-Tights, I'm referring to my opinion as to the financial focus of the game. It used to be aimed at casual players and superhero fans. Now it is being aimed at PvP players and the competitive Asian market. It's just a change of design philosophy. The gameplay has not changed that dramatically, but it has changed enough that many people who loved the previous philosophy of the game loathe the new changes.
Just my opinion. Nothing you say will change it -- you cannot convince me that I like what City of Heroes has become. Nor will I convince you that the changes are detrimental to the game, because you like the way the game has changed. We apparently like different kinds of games. Congratulations, things went your way.
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So, tell me something...
How exactly does allowing Heroes and Villains to beat the snot out of each other go AGAINST Superhero fans? Hell, Casual Gamers STILL have it easier here then they do in games like WoW or Lineage 2.
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It used to be aimed at casual players and superhero fans. Now it is being aimed at PvP players and the competitive Asian market.
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So, tell me something...
How exactly does allowing Heroes and Villains to beat the snot out of each other go AGAINST Superhero fans?
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Because to balance the 'beating the snot out of each other', they chose to destroy many of the most immersive RP elements of the game, such as true invulnerability, perma powers, non-suppressed travel powers, and the many minions vs. one hero playstyle. Have you not seen any of the hundred-or-so 'We no longer feel super' threads on these forums?
We had super-powered immersion. It became second priority to making money off of PvP. I'm sad about that. But I admit it's probably the decision they had to make. No sense letting a great game go bankrupt, after all...better to turn it into a profitable, if mediocre game.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
Oh, I see.
You're making this another "PVP IS THE CAUSE OF ALL PROBLEMS" thread, even though evidence has proved that changes to PvP can occur seperate from PvE, such as Taunt and End Drain.
How is being Perma-Unstoppable helpful for roleplayers? Or completely invincible? I'll agree with you that it ruined really bad roleplayers who had no imagination or any true reason to roleplay in the first plce.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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Because to balance the 'beating the snot out of each other', they chose to destroy many of the most immersive RP elements of the game,
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Actually they chose to fix broken gameplay elements that have been plaguing them for months.
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such as true invulnerability
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God-Mode is typically a cheat code in other games.
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perma powers, non-suppressed travel powers
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If a click is perma it might as well be a toggle. Since click > toggle they were more powerful than most of the similar powers. Travel powers were allowing players to do some gross things particularly with blaster nukes.
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and the many minions vs. one hero playstyle
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I can still take upwards of 6 minions without much worry.
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Have you not seen any of the hundred-or-so 'We no longer feel super' threads on these forums?
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Most of those people also overgeneralize what is really going on in game versus what they think is going on. They compare all minions and sometimes even upwards of LTs and Bosses to simple street vandels when even the lowly hellions have super powers. Simple fact is we are superheroes fighting super villains. The super factors itself out of the equation. Also the super in superhero only refers to having superhuman powers. People should really focus on the hero part of the word.
Looking at Catwhoorg's Chart you see that the number of subscribers dipped.
BUT
The number of US only subscribers isn't listed beyond that dip. The US AND Euro numbers combined are what has brought them back up to launch area numbers.
For all we know the European servers could be very busy (and in being popular in europe would be considered CoH subscribers worldwide but not ones on OUR US servers) and the US servers could be dead:
US launch 180,000
US now could be 50,000 and Euro could be 130,000 and so even though the subscription numbers are around the same as launch, the number of people on the american servers could not be as much.
Also if your methods of searching in game are good for finding EVERYONE on the server then thats not just CoH thats also CoV.
And you can't guarantee that everyone who is in CoV also plays CoH or has ever played it.
Basically it is entirely possible that the US servers aren't nearly as populated in CoH as they want us to believe.
US server numbers in CoH combined with Euro servers still doesn't add up to the numbers we had at the american launch.
Since we can't play with people on the Euro servers I'd like to see numbers from just the US servers charted as Catwhoorg did.
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How is being Perma-Unstoppable helpful for roleplayers?
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I dunno about you but I roleplay as a guy who hass a massive heart attack every 3 minutes all the time!
Here is the one with Septembers numbers included.
If you poke around the Euro boards you get the occasional infomation about server load (on the English servers that is anyway).
The Europe launch has 4 servers, 2 English, one French one German. The numbers on the English speaking servers are at BEST equivalent to a US light load server, usually significantly worse.
However for the next 2 plots lets assume a server is a server is a server.
This plot is the monhtly access (# of subscribers) divided by the number of servers. This is likely one of the ways that NCSoft decies if and when to open new servers on its stable of games. (being as a server costs money to install and keep up)
From December onwards you could pretty much argue a trend line up down or static. Id call it flat with fluctuation, but make of it what you will.
Really, what we as players note isn't the subscriber number per se, but how busy the server is. Now only the peak rate is released, but Peak rate divided over the servers shows essentially a flat line since December.
It is important to take this number with a VERY big pinch of salt - there is likely to be lesser contribution (not zero but lesser) of the peak rate from the Euro Servers as the peaks will not co-incide. This graph will understate the peak load per US server since EU launch.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
My post is to the thread subject not some one else's post..
Why no red servers?
Server farm capacity increased.
Hero's who switched to play villains = no loss no gain.
Server loads do not = # of subscribers.. the bottom line is not how many on at one time or how much they play. Its who is still paying the monthly fee. I my self play and pay for 2 mmo's like many do ... as long as the cash is flowing all may not be where they wanted it but it in no way is a reflection of success or failure.
As long as subscriptions keep climbing its going the way the should be,,,
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From December onwards you could pretty much argue a trend line up down or static. Id call it flat with fluctuation, but make of it what you will.
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Actually that line looks like its going down with a brief up turn before going down again.
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Really, what we as players note isn't the subscriber number per se, but how busy the server is. Now only the peak rate is released, but Peak rate divided over the servers shows essentially a flat line since December.
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Its showing the servers dieing after WoW release and having yet to recover.
Also lets not forget the numbre of people who play more than one box. I think your access numbers are most accurate. I'd still like to see solid numbers. Like how many different accounts accessed the game in the last month's time? Month before that? And before that one?
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There are LEGIONS of Blizzard fans - of course they'd play WoW! And it's a phenomenal game!
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He doesn't hate WoW?!?!?
*Starts singing REM*
*IT'S THE EEEEND OF THE WOOORLD AS WE KNOW IT!*
I'm going to post my 2 cents here and I am sure it does not matter as much as all you veterans.....
I got the game a little while back. I was introduced to it by a co-worker of mine who has been playing a loooong time. I didn't user some free trial for the game. I based my opinion on his feedback and enjoyment of the game.
I have been playing since and even pre-ordered cov without even having a lvl 50 yet in coh. Now when I played in the COV beta the idea that the places were a ghost town well...I remember beating on Statemans and just barely being able to take a screenshot do to the massive mob of players on that map.
Now at this time it was on a whole 2 working servers I think? It has since been added to what 9 -10 servers now? Not to meantion each zone has more then 1 instance. Now correct me if I am wrong but for a 2nd instance o be formed the 1st one has to be full.
I see lots of people just in random places...the best is watching a misison exitng i sat by a door waiting on a friend to join me... while i waited i counted at least 4 teams of 5-8 people go in and roughly 2-7 teams of random numbers come out...
People at this stage are busy leveling up rather then gathering around. Most are in teams already and thats why they dont respond. But if you set yourself as looking and broadcast the invites will come.
I even have a few people that send me a tell right as i log in asking if i want to join in with them...(which is very nice of them because I nromally will lol)
Information only and not a flame.
From my understanding of COH Hami zone a new instance is spawned at about 200-250 players in a zone.
Thus while protector Server only had 1100 people on line during the Hami raids in april, since well over 300 wanted in on the raids a seperate zone and hami would be spawned.
This is important to keep in mind since extra zones spawned DOES NOT necesarily mean more players.
Thus in the statesman beat down 3000 people being logged on would probably spawn 15 different zones. 3000 players going to a oneshot event is not any thing to point to and say it shows huge numebrs of players. Likewise it doesn't show a small number as their are too many variables (how many were in on the pre release, how many were off work, how many knew about it, etc).
Number of players going in and out of a mission also can be meaningless. Since COV just kicked off most people are in the same levl range, thus even if only 100 people are on a server (unbelievably low), as long as they are all in the same level area you could easily have several teams marching into the same missions. Additionally multiple DIFFERENT missions may spawn from the same point. That is the case in COH. Thus if a zone only has 1 mission door (As an example only) then it would give the illusion of a lot of people playing when in fact every level 10-15 must use said door for there missions.
Please note I am neither claiming high nor Low populations in this post, just showing how data can be misinterpreted if you don't know ALL the variables.
Now I don't know about COV so maybe someone can tell me, but can't you find out the aprox number of players by doing a search for team members like you do in COH? For the most part I find it is accurate, as long as you add a 20% to it for those who are hidden.
Belldandy - Protector Server
The edn of Beta event.
There were 3 servers up.
The one I was on had gotten to Mercy Island 26 when I logged.
and yes you can do a search to find total numbers logged on.
It pulls up both CoH and CoV
Triumph - right now 1482 users, of which 1020 are CoV Archetypes
(so 462 on CoH)
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
I'm going to defend States here briefly. And then, as I am wont to do, complain a bit about what he's done.
CoH/CoV is doing well. Cryptic is a small development company, and they are competing against big guns like Blizzard and Sony, and they are doing moderately well at that.
The game's focus has changed, and perhaps it needed to change. While it was focused on immersion and exploration, it has shifted to achievement and competition. Exploration only keeps players entertained for so long, it seems, and I'm sure they will hold more subscribers by re-gearing toward the tried and true MMOG classics of level grinding and player-made content via PvP. Those classic playstyles will serve CoH well in theupcoming asian release, as the lucrative asian game parlors are designed for heavily competitive games like Lineage.
I am upset that the game has changed. I preferred the casual, relaxed play that CoH originally had. I also detest hard level grinds and have no interest in PvP. So the game has shifted out from under me, and it's no longer my kind of game. That's sad, but it is probably more financially sound to have the same kind of game as everyone else rather than something innovative and casual.
CoH used to be unique, but only moderately successful. I'm sure that it will become much more successful in the future, now that it is being changed into Lineage-in-Tights.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.