How come we have no red servers yet???
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2005-11-01 20:08 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
*sigh*
Let's see if I can lay this thing to rest.
At I5 - and now again with ED - some claim that the game is "dying" and that thousands of players are leaving. This isn't true. We're actually gaining customers. Not hundreds of thousands, but we're gaining nevertheless.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is this before or after you factor the number of people who left (in droves) with ED?
[ QUOTE ]
Then all of a sudden I read Armsman's post where he talks about our original launch subscription numbers - which isn't really the point. My entire response on this thread has been focused to I5 and ED reaction - so the more pertinent number to look at would be what our numbers were just previous to I5...not our numbers just after launch. Never did I make a claim that we have more subscribers now than we did last year. My point continues to be: ED and I5 haven't created a ghost town out of City of Heroes.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe not a ghost town, but certainly nowhere near the numbers pre-I5. Of course, that's including all the brand new CoH/V customers (which probably jacks the count up a fair amount).
The real question is: How many players, whose accounts were created Feb 2005* or before, are still subscribed?
*(Feb 2005 allowing for 6 month old players to be counted as "veterans".)
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, I pointed to SirBruce's outdated chart instead of NCSoft's numbers. Frankly, SirBruce's is the one I go to - it lists the competition, so to speak. Or at least to a degree. As SirBruce will tell you, it's really difficult to get numbers out of publishers. NCSoft posts ours.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why is it that NCSoft posts their games? Other than attempting to brag over Lineage II having been big, perhaps, I cannot imagine why such embarassing numbers would be so publically available.
EverQuest, which I detest, is severely outdated and only barely beats out an Etch-A-Sketch on graphics still has incredibly high subscription rates. Of course, that dev team learned to actually LISTEN to their players and not FORCE those players to play how they (the EQ devs) thought the game should be played.
[ QUOTE ]
Why is WoW or Lineage doing so much better? Heck - they're great games. But they're also successful in the Asian market. Will we ever catch up to them. Dunno. The WoW guys have a bit of a track record on us...years of producing amazing games. Who ever heard of Cryptic before City of Heroes? There are LEGIONS of Blizzard fans - of course they'd play WoW!
[/ QUOTE ]
You're right, Jack. Who had ever heard of Cryptic before CoH? Personally, having played Diablo 2 (for a long time) and waited on the fabled 1.10 patch for over 2 years, Blizzard left a bad taste in my mouth. Then going and spending a year on Star Wars Galaxies, I quickly learned SOE's policy toward casual gamers was severely lacking.
Moving to City of Heroes was like a dream come true! BUT, after a little over a year in CoH, the dream became a nightmare. Guess we all gotta wake up sometime.
[ QUOTE ]
of course they'd play WoW! And it's a phenomenal game!
[/ QUOTE ]
*applauds* Very, very good, Jack! Doesn't it feel good to be honest and not politician-like with your misleading falsehoods? You're right. It IS a phenomenal game. To think, I used to decry WoW...
Around 9 ish Eastern Triumph was at 2000 online, with rouhgly 600 on CoH, the rest on CoV.
For reference, typical load for Triumph 6 months ago was around the 1000-1100 mark at that time.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
We've hit new highs in active concurrent in the past 24 hours. - Statesman 11/2/2005
[/ QUOTE ]
Taking from your own quote and also based upon this entire thread...
I didn't think those free trials counted? Technically speaking, one could suppose that the "first month free" thing could still be counted as an active account, considering the game was purchased and registered.
What I'd really like to see is how those numbers look on *Dec 18 and then **Feb 15. Those will be some very telling numbers.
Of course, when Blizzard releases the first WoW expansion, I suspect it and DDO's release will likely be the true killing blow for CoH. I could be wrong and some players will stick it out until DC or Marvel have their respective games released, simply due to lack of another comic book genre game.
*(Dec 18 being before CoH/CoV becoming possible Christmas presents.)
**(Feb 15 being after the current account boosts and those Christmas accounts have settled down.)
[ QUOTE ]
Around 9 ish Eastern Triumph was at 2000 online, with rouhgly 600 on CoH, the rest on CoV.
For reference, typical load for Triumph 6 months ago was around the 1000-1100 mark at that time.
[/ QUOTE ]
After the newness of CoV wears off, I expect the numbers will settle right back to that 1000-1100 mark, combined.
Members of my SG are leaving in droves. I've received 4 farewell emails in the last month, including the SG founder. Three of the four left "forwarding addresses" on Guild Wars.
As near as I can tell my SG only has 3 active players now, myself included (used to be around 25). It's hard to tell now since the SG window is still bugged and shows everyone as being on "today".
I'll be on until end of December playing CoV. The CoV launch happened to be the day after my subscription date, so I'm paid up until then. Beyond that? I doubt it. I figure that Statesman will get the first round of nerfs into CoV around then, and I'm just done with that. Since my main CoV character is a regen Stalker, I figure he has giant red targets on both his front and back just asking for the nerf bat.
I think the big point here isn't even that its the servers that are dead.
Its Paragon City.
between 400-600 seems to be the average I'm seeing for numbre of heroes logged into most servers while villains are 900+
CoV and all the new hotness therein has cooled off CoH considerably.
[ QUOTE ]
Members of my SG are leaving in droves. I've received 4 farewell emails in the last month, including the SG founder. Three of the four left "forwarding addresses" on Guild Wars.
As near as I can tell my SG only has 3 active players now, myself included (used to be around 25). It's hard to tell now since the SG window is still bugged and shows everyone as being on "today".
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I ran into that problem myself; Having a hard time getting motivated to play CoV simply because it's the same game with red lettering. But I'd be curious to see a snapshot of how the numbers divide. Like for example, take a snapshot of the most heavily populated server you've got at peak hours. How many people are playing CoV? How many people are playing CoH?
Does it surprise anyone that the dev experience is not the same as ours? ED established they're not even playing the same build. I told myself I would stick around for the CoV launch, but since Lord Recluse basically turned out to be Statesman with a snively-whiplash mustache, I'm not so sure; my subscription is up next month.
IMHO - Their fatal mistake is letting too much of the issues revolve around nerfs. What we need are some silly server events. Remember the Winter Lords? That was ridiculously fun for a little while, it just went on MUCH TOO LONG for it's own good. What about the halloween before last? All those trick or treat teams - that was really cute.
My point is, the game is thoroughly charted down to 6 decimal places. I don't think there would be nearly so many bad posts around here, and if they would give us something positive to talk about besides nerfs.
Anyone else see the pattern in the charts?
Up in Summer, down in Fall, up in Winter, down in Spring. The numbers themselves seem pretty stable if you take those rises and lows into account.
And just for Gits and Shiggles I'll say that I predict in Summer 2006 CoH/CoV numbers will be higher than this last Summer.
I just wanted to post a few questions since I have been away for 2 months ( not by choice )
First to RemusShepherd I have to ask why you feel the game is being targeted at the PvP players? Is there anywhere in here where you are forced to participate in PvP ? Also what exactly do you mean by the "Competative Asian market" ? Are the markets in the rest of the world not competative? Are only Asian players competative with other players?
I rarely team in this game ( CoH or CoV ) as time to play seldom allows me enough time to do team tasks without knowing I would have to leave the rest of the team before the end leaving them shorthanded and I will not do that. I still find the game very fun to play and feel no pressure to participate in PvP even though I have before and will again because it is fun to fight an opponent who can think as opposed to nothing but AI controlled bad guys who can only do what they were programmed to do and become predictable and easy to defeat.
That is my opinion. 
My last question is .... WHAT THE HECK IS "ED" ? I have seen this all over the boards since I got back, but no poster has explained what it means.
[ QUOTE ]
EverQuest, which I detest, is severely outdated and only barely beats out an Etch-A-Sketch on graphics still has incredibly high subscription rates. Of course, that dev team learned to actually LISTEN to their players and not FORCE those players to play how they (the EQ devs) thought the game should be played.
[/ QUOTE ]
You've never played Everquest I take it. In all the years I played it there was constant griping about Verant's "vision" all the time. It got so bad they had to shut down their official forums and players gravitated to 3rd party forums. You couldn't have played the game and visited any EQ forum without being aware of the Verant "Vision" debates. What's funny is, anytime someone mentions "Vision" I automatically think of EQ and Verant.
The reason why EQ still has an active fanbase is because it has practically the deepest online world of any MMO, drawing on six years of additional game content since release. What they lack in graphics they make up in relative depth. Having played DAOC and WoW I can say they pale in comparison in that area, for obvious reasons, they haven't been out as long.
[ QUOTE ]
I quickly learned SOE's policy toward casual gamers was severely lacking.
[/ QUOTE ]
A policy Verant shared as a SOE company. EQ is a harder game to get into than CoH. Heck, let's be straightfoward here, most MMO's are. CoH is just super easy to get into.
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, when Blizzard releases the first WoW expansion, I suspect it and DDO's release will likely be the true killing blow for CoH.
[/ QUOTE ]
I suspect DDO's release will take far more people from WoW, DAOC, EQ and EQ2, etc. I don't feel threatened by another EQ clone. If another superhero game comes out, I'd be more concerned.
Regarding the nerf situation, I can't think of a major MMO that hasn't delivered it's own fair share of nerfs. Every MMO I've played has had tons of nerfs. CoH is no different from them in that respect, and no doubt each of those MMO's had consequences for each nerf, etc. But right now we're having more players on our servers now than we've had since CoH's launch and doomsaying won't change that.
[ QUOTE ]
My last question is .... WHAT THE HECK IS "ED" ? I have seen this all over the boards since I got back, but no poster has explained what it means.
[/ QUOTE ]
ED is the Devs' secret plan to eat babies and take over the whole world of underground "The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" cosplay.
[ QUOTE ]
You've never played Everquest I take it. In all the years I played it there was constant griping about Verant's "vision" all the time. It got so bad they had to shut down their official forums and players gravitated to 3rd party forums. You couldn't have played the game and visited any EQ forum without being aware of the Verant "Vision" debates. What's funny is, anytime someone mentions "Vision" I automatically think of EQ and Verant.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then they dropped Verant and dirched the vision and things got much worse.
[ QUOTE ]
First to RemusShepherd I have to ask why you feel the game is being targeted at the PvP players?
[/ QUOTE ]
First of all, the game is being targeted for financial longevity. For MMOGs, longevity means having a lot of content. There are several ways to put content into a MMOG, and two of the classic ways are to have a slow level grind (so the existing PvE content lasts longer) and to have PvP (so players make their own content for other players to enjoy.)
CoH did not have those forms of content when it was released. It had an easy level system and no PvP. But at some point someone in NCSoft looked at the subscriber numbers and made a decision to use the same old faux content mechanisms as all the other games out there. So they slowed levelling, forced grouping, and are pushing players to PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
Is there anywhere in here where you are forced to participate in PvP ?
[/ QUOTE ]
All the new content in I6 can only be experienced if you play PvP. They're not doling out content for PvE at the same rate. They want to lure PvP into this game. What did CoH players who did not buy CoV and do not intend to play PvP got out of the last patch? As far as I can tell, nothing except nerfs.
[ QUOTE ]
Also what exactly do you mean by the "Competative Asian market" ? Are the markets in the rest of the world not competative? Are only Asian players competative with other players?
[/ QUOTE ]
The game market in Korea and other countries is a little different than in the US. They have game parlors -- stores with computers set up in them, and these parlors buy hundreds of game licenses which they dole out to customers. That's why Lineage has such obscenely high numbers -- because the numbers are inflated by game parlors.
That's not to say that they don't have that many actual players. Gaming is an obsession in Korea, and the game parlors make these games much more accessible to players who otherwise would not have a PC or be able to afford a monthly fee. Lineage has 10 times the number of subscribers as any other MMOG, last I checked, and even if much of that is timeshared accounts in game parlors it's still one hell of a lot of money. That's the market that NCSoft knows well. It's not too far a leap of reasoning to assume that if CoH was not performing as well as they'd hope, they would order Cryptic to change the game to appeal to the markets the producers know best.
This game started with a vision. It is now going for the money. Some people see that as a sad change. But as I've said, I agree that it's better to have a mediocre game that's financially healthy than a terrific game that failed because its niche was too small.
[ QUOTE ]
My last question is .... WHAT THE HECK IS "ED" ? I have seen this all over the boards since I got back, but no poster has explained what it means.
[/ QUOTE ]
Enhancement Diversification. A euphemism that Statesman used for the nerfs in I6 that cut the effectiveness of enhancements in powers. If you 6-slotted a power (e.g., Stamina) it is only 55% as effective as it used to be before I6. It was supposed to be about forcing players to diversify the types of enhancements they use. In reality, it has only altered the standard enhancement loadout, while simultaneously destroying character diversity by making casual and concept builds untenable. But there is disagreement about that last point, as you've no doubt noticed by now.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My last question is .... WHAT THE HECK IS "ED" ? I have seen this all over the boards since I got back, but no poster has explained what it means.
[/ QUOTE ]
ED is the Devs' secret plan to eat babies and take over the whole world of underground "The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" cosplay.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't forget the Kitten Fires.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My last question is .... WHAT THE HECK IS "ED" ? I have seen this all over the boards since I got back, but no poster has explained what it means.
[/ QUOTE ]
ED is the Devs' secret plan to eat babies and take over the whole world of underground "The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" cosplay.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't forget the Kitten Fires.
[/ QUOTE ]
You and your Kitten Fires. *sniff, sniff*
Egads, another one. Someone call the Feline Fire Brigade!
remus,
whilst the main I6 content is PvP, the updated engine, graphics options, dual core proessor supprt etc etc is avilable to all.
(and I say main as there may well be some updated PvE content in I6, like a new map for storyarc X etc I dont know either way.)
I6 is basically the bridge between CoH and CoV.
I7(CoH) and I1(CoV) will pretty much be based around the 40-50 CoV content, and yes another PvP zone - its to be expected. I7 is to be CoV focused
Now if I8 rolls round with no significant PvE content additions for CoH, then I think you have the basis of an argument.
I5 wasn't THAT long ago, bringing in a whole new zone with lots of exciting temp powers and the first new powersets for existing AT's.
I6 if you care to step into Sirens Call for the countdown, actually offers a shop to buy temp powers that can be used anywhere in the game.
Anyone level 20+ can buy say the EMP glove for a ranged attack for pulling. Or a secondary type travel power to be used in the Shard. Mabe it would be nice to have a vendor in FBZ itself, but atleast there is the further ability to covers holes in a build for PvE added. (albeit by stepping into Sirens Call).
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
It seems a fairly consistent theme interwoven in this thread and ones like it is the decrying of the nerfs that have, are, and will be done in the game and how that is affecting the amount of people who play.
It would seem that the devs are going to do whatever they want no matter what anyone on the boards or even in game says to the contrary. The point was made that the devs seem to be playing a different game when it comes to the effects they claim to want and how the changes actually affect things. That rather goes without saying. When they put changes in internal testing they test them how they intended the game to be played. When they put them on the test servers they are generally only tested by people who tend to be sycophantic name droppers with regards to the devs.These people will, again, test them how the devs want them to be tested. However, when they hit the live servers the people who are subject to their effects have, seemingly, learned how to play the game far differently than the devs have.
The player base is more effiecient so the devs beat on the game with the nerf bat for a while to try to compensate for the things they couldn't foresee. Experience in developing games doesn't equate to experience in playing them. As long as the devs listen to the wrong people (and people who scream and throw fits here are NOT the 'right' people) then nerfs and the fallout will always be a problem.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, I pointed to SirBruce's outdated chart instead of NCSoft's numbers. Frankly, SirBruce's is the one I go to - it lists the competition, so to speak. Or at least to a degree. As SirBruce will tell you, it's really difficult to get numbers out of publishers. NCSoft posts ours.
[/ QUOTE ]Why is it that NCSoft posts their games? Other than attempting to brag over Lineage II having been big, perhaps, I cannot imagine why such embarassing numbers would be so publically available.
[/ QUOTE ]
NCSoft posts their numbers as part of their securities filings with the Korean stock exchange. NCSoft is a publicly-traded company. I'm not sure why other games made by publicly-traded companies in the US and Europe don't have to follow suit.
I'm not sure why you consider the numbers to be embarassing. As I pointed out in my previous post, NCSoft is involved with a long-term strategy to create a diversified MMOG portfolio of niche games in addition to their flagship moneymaker, the Lineage series of games. The bar they set for success isn't EQ2's or Lineage's or WoW's. It was around 100K subscribers - the same one likely set for Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault coming out next year.
In addition (and it may be a blow to the American ego), the North American market is essentially a test market for the Asian market where the real money is. CoH/CoV makes a bit of money right now, but ultimately the game is being groomed for Asian release where the economies of scale can be more profitable. It most likely doesn't matter if CoH/CoV ever gets close again to 200K with the North Atlantic subscriptions.
[ QUOTE ]
EverQuest, which I detest, is severely outdated and only barely beats out an Etch-A-Sketch on graphics still has incredibly high subscription rates. Of course, that dev team learned to actually LISTEN to their players and not FORCE those players to play how they (the EQ devs) thought the game should be played.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a little bit of an apples to oranges comparison. EQ is a game (like Ultima and even the Final Fantasy games) that is set in the #1 popular genre for MMOGs - sword & sorcery - and has an established playerbase from back when there was little competition. It also has the benefit of the Sony Station Pass to maintain it's numbers. That's the rub: there are sword & sorcery subscription MMOGs and then everything else. The only "everything else" game to make a big splash is The Sims. Even then, that's only really comparable to Guild Wars, because they are both fee-free games that rely on boxed expansion sales. CoH/CoV does pretty well for an "everything else" subscription MMOG.
[ QUOTE ]
NCSoft posts their numbers as part of their securities filings with the Korean stock exchange. NCSoft is a publicly-traded company. I'm not sure why other games made by publicly-traded companies in the US and Europe don't have to follow suit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps it has to do with NCSoft being both the publisher and the parent company?
Many of the other publishers appear to be subsidiaries of larger parent companies. Perhaps the parent companies do not have to report the specifics of their subsidiaries. Thus, for examples, Sony and Vivendi might only have to report the very basic revenue, expenses, and assets of SOE and Blizzard on their balance sheets and earnings reports.
Just speculation of course. But either way, I'd say that NCSofts reporting is definitely more than the bare minimum required.
yep Thats my reda NCSoft is a gaming company, therefore it breaks it down more than the other ones do.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
NCSoft posts their numbers as part of their securities filings with the Korean stock exchange. NCSoft is a publicly-traded company. I'm not sure why other games made by publicly-traded companies in the US and Europe don't have to follow suit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Accounting regulations vary on a country by country basis. For publicly traded companies the exchange on which the securities of a given company trade may set disclosure guidelines above and beyond those set by the IASB (International Accounting Standards Board) or FASB (Federal Accounting Standards Board), or the established GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) standard.
But under all of these provisions a company need not disclose division specific information for lines of business that represent a minor portion of revenue (less than 10% in many case). Disclosing unit sales or subscriber numbers is an option that certain companies adopt to give potential investors greater financial transparency. Since NCSoft originated as a company with a single game (Lineage) as the source of its business, disclosing subscriber numbers was established as part of early financing and continued as a policy to woo further investors. Other game franchises are not a substantial portion of revenue for their parent companies, are developed with private financing and thus not subject to public disclosure regulation, or are developed by public companies that only report aggregate revenue due to substantial diversification in their titles (Electronic Arts is a good example of this).
[ QUOTE ]
In addition (and it may be a blow to the American ego), the North American market is essentially a test market for the Asian market where the real money is. CoH/CoV makes a bit of money right now, but ultimately the game is being groomed for Asian release where the economies of scale can be more profitable. It most likely doesn't matter if CoH/CoV ever gets close again to 200K with the North Atlantic subscriptions.
[/ QUOTE ]
In other words, they do NOT care about us. We are only beta testers for the Asian release.
Statesman, deny that if you dare.
I only wish I had realized this truth a year and a half ago. :/
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
Do not ask Statesman to deny it... for you will have to submit the correct form in triplicate and wait six weeks for a response...
IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE!
It is time we vote this miserable cretin out of the office he abuses on a daily basis!
And where is he now? Galavanting across the country? Spending our money on his entertainment? Dancing girls and cheap scotch in seedy motels, no doubt!
IT IS OUTRAGEOUS!
It must be stopped!
Vote for me, and we will revolutionize this game, make it what it once was, and end this disgusting display of carelessness from the man called "Statesman"... for it is clear he cares only for himself!
NCInteractive has LOST 8.6 Billion Won since Q12004. (roughly 8.6 million Dollars).
(On 88 Billion Won in sales)
You had better well believe that they have been gearing up for an Asian launch of CoH/V, you know the largest MMO market in the world.
THAT will mean more subscribers, more money and eventually more content for everyone who plays City of...
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
NCInteractive has LOST 8.6 Billion Won since Q12004. (roughly 8.6 million Dollars).
(On 88 Billion Won in sales)
You had better well believe that they have been gearing up for an Asian launch of CoH/V, you know the largest MMO market in the world.
THAT will mean more subscribers, more money and eventually more content for everyone who plays City of...
[/ QUOTE ]
...if you speak Korean.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
[ QUOTE ]
The edn of Beta event.
There were 3 servers up.
The one I was on had gotten to Mercy Island 26 when I logged.
and yes you can do a search to find total numbers logged on.
It pulls up both CoH and CoV
Triumph - right now 1482 users, of which 1020 are CoV Archetypes
(so 462 on CoH)
[/ QUOTE ]
/em Kim Jong Il (for the Heroes)
I'm so Ronery / So ronery / So ronery and sadry arone / There's no one / Just me onry / Sitting on my rittle throne / I work very hard to be number one guy / but, stiwr there's no one to right up my rife / Seems rike no one takes me serirousry / And so, I'm ronery / A rittle ronery / Poor rittle me / There's no one I can rerate to / Feewr rike a biwd in a cage / It's kinda siwry / but, not reawry / because, it's fiwring my body with rage / I'm the smartest, most crever, most physicawry fit / but, none of the women seem to give a ***** / Maybe someday, they'wr awr notice me / And untiwr then, I'wr be ronery / Yeah, a rittle ronery / Poor rittle me...
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes