Denryoku

It seems someone, likely a small group of conspirators, has managed to pull the GM out place, with the intent of ending the raid early, succeeding at least once, tonight. Would it be possible to have a moderator look in on the situation around 1810-1815 PDT on Wednesdays to see who is doing what? Before the new Freedom plan goes live, I fear we will need more aggressive measure in place to prevent a variety of griefing acctions.

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And who are you to decide what does and doesn't affect others? Do you say, "Oh, quit whining, it didn't hurt" if you accidentally step on someone's foot and they complain of it?

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I never said it "doesn't" affect others. I said it doesn't "devalue" in the normal everyday useage.

It is used all the time on these forums in a neutral, nonderogatory manner. If you think in everyday useage it devalues them then please have a word with the Devs who use the term.

Belldandy

It doesn't devalue anything, at least not in normal conversation. "Toon" is a perfectly fine and acceptable word that is used by many in this game including the Devs.

Belldandy "Wordhumper"

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From now on, I'm going to use the term wordhumper to refer to you. It's not derogatory, so you can't object. It means, "Person who loves words".

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I can object. It is impolite in most conversations to call someone by other then their normal name. No one calls me that so you are trying to rename me. That is rude and can be argued even derogatory.

In comparison the word "Toon" to the general public is considered not derogatory and not rude. It is a word commonly used even by the die hard fans of the very group who it applies to.

Belldandy

Not seriouse at all, just on a break relaxing. I love discussing the evolution of the English language. I used to take it more seriously. Especially when the word "Hacker" took on a negative meaning. I tried fighting that for awhile until I realized it was pointless. Language evolves.

And I did edit my post. Sorry if it causes any confusion.

Belldandy

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I find it funny that people can get annoyed by such trivial things

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I find it much funnier that anyone thinks anyone here, at all, on either side, is "annoyed".

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I find it even funnier that you find it funny that no one on the Anti toon side is annoyed. Especially when an Anti toon person, Orisit, admitted that they were annoyed just a few posts ago.

Orsit said "Toon is not derrogatory, but it is annoying to me."

Others have said they will not team with those who use the word "Toon". Using your Mustang example that would be like refusing to ride in the Red car because you disliked Red. Far more than a passing thought wouldn't you say? More like real "annoyance", maybe even "hate". I am annoyed when I take the bus, but I don't refuse to ride on it.

I would say from the posts I have seen that a small portion of the posters ARE annoyed, or worse, with the term. If you think otherwise then either you haven't read all the posts, or you have a different meaning of the word annoyed.

Belldandy

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Toon is not being used as a derogatory term and in most cases the user of the term has no way of knowing that a few people might view it as such.

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Does that mean that nobody is allowed to disagree with the words I use? Or find my terms annoying? Lets say the words 'retard' and '[censored].' It annoys me that people use these words in a general derrogatory fashion. But, of course, thats just English evolving and I can't object. Might be a bit of hyperbole, but it is essentially the same thing. The use of the word toon to describe characters also annoys me, and I also object.

Yes, language changes. No, I don't have to agree with all the changes.

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Sorry. Your argument falls apart as the two words you used ARE dirogatory. As I stated, "Toon", to most people is NOT derogatory.

Belldandy

Words change and evolve.

While some here may claim their characters are not toons, that makes as much sense as claiming that no one "Dials a Number" on their phone. Yes technically and technologically it may be true. But "Dial a Number" is a term used within our society that everyone understands.

Note for those of you to young to remember, Telephones use to have a weird round disks on top with 10 holes in it. A dial. You would rotate the disk with your finger to call someone. NO I AM NOT MAKEING THIS UP! STOP LAUGHING AT ME!

Just Google it and you will see millions of hits including usage by Major Telco Companies. They of all people know that there phones no longer our dialed.

Toon is the same way. It has evolved to include the online characters. While some can stand here and shout "NO IT DOESN'T INCLUDE MINE!" It does. Those around you know exactly what I mean when I say "I saw your toon." The word has evolved to include all the toons in this game weather you like it or not, and yelling that a toon is actually defined as "blah, blah, blah" is about as useful as trying to redefine "Dialing a Number" as "blah blah blah". The public doesn't care and will continue to use the term.

Toon is not being used as a derogatory term and in most cases the user of the term has no way of knowing that a few people might view it as such. But if you wish to try to fight the common usage, complain about those who use it, refuse to team with those who do and try to be an "English Nazi" feel free. It's your time but frankly I feel there's a lot more in life to enjoy, and a lot better things to judge people on.

Belldandy

I concurr with the other two. I will add this list to my favorites, so please continue your writing here. ^..^

You make a good point, but your story is clearly derivative of "Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut.

Muy Beuno!
Well written indeed.

Information only and not a flame.

From my understanding of COH Hami zone a new instance is spawned at about 200-250 players in a zone.

Thus while protector Server only had 1100 people on line during the Hami raids in april, since well over 300 wanted in on the raids a seperate zone and hami would be spawned.

This is important to keep in mind since extra zones spawned DOES NOT necesarily mean more players.

Thus in the statesman beat down 3000 people being logged on would probably spawn 15 different zones. 3000 players going to a oneshot event is not any thing to point to and say it shows huge numebrs of players. Likewise it doesn't show a small number as their are too many variables (how many were in on the pre release, how many were off work, how many knew about it, etc).

Number of players going in and out of a mission also can be meaningless. Since COV just kicked off most people are in the same levl range, thus even if only 100 people are on a server (unbelievably low), as long as they are all in the same level area you could easily have several teams marching into the same missions. Additionally multiple DIFFERENT missions may spawn from the same point. That is the case in COH. Thus if a zone only has 1 mission door (As an example only) then it would give the illusion of a lot of people playing when in fact every level 10-15 must use said door for there missions.



Please note I am neither claiming high nor Low populations in this post, just showing how data can be misinterpreted if you don't know ALL the variables.

Now I don't know about COV so maybe someone can tell me, but can't you find out the aprox number of players by doing a search for team members like you do in COH? For the most part I find it is accurate, as long as you add a 20% to it for those who are hidden.


Belldandy - Protector Server

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I love it when people pull numbers out of their ... you know where.

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I wasn't pulling numbers out my [censored]. I was simply questioning someone else having quoted subscriber statistics. Granted, not in this thread, but even in this thread they are claiming numbers are up/down/steady and not saying where they got the info. Perhaps you should read the post before making a snide and back-handed insulting response to it.

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I think they were reffering to the numbers you through out of a few thousand. 5 minutes of research and math would show that to be untrue.

Log onto COH at prime time 6PM PST. Do a global search. Odds are you will see 800 to 1200 people logged on to each server. I think there are ABOUT 10 servers. That means 8000-12000 people are logged on at prime time, Many people play only a few times a week or later at night or earlier, etc. Thus one can quickly make a guestimate that the numbers MUST be 30,000 OR more.

As for source a reading of this thread or a search would reveal the source of the numbers. Statesman himself has mentioned the source. One is www.mmogchart.com/ though as was pointed out to him this is out of date. It show 100,000 - 180,000 depending on time period. More recent numbers are also listed with the most recent being 150,000 or so subscribers.
As for the accuracy of these numbers they are released in quarterly reports. Falsification of these reports = federal crimes. While the numbers MIGHT be fudged by 5-10% using neat acounting meathods I can't see much more then that.

I hope that clarifys why some may be a bit upset by your claim of 5000 or so.

I don't take it personally and I hope this post is taken as statements to try to clarify information for you and others, and in no way is it meant as a flame.

Take Care

Belldandy - Protector Server

PS All numbers are what I remember, and are accurate +/-10% go back and read the messages for EXACT figures.




Pardon any typos

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I stand by my statement that he deleted a post and replaced it with another one, rewrote history so to speak “5th Column”

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Can we take a poll of who cares? No? Nobody even cares about a poll of who cares about this little hatchet you're grinding away at?

Bummer. I guess actual lives will have to start up again.

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Well obviously you cared enough to respond to this post and waste 3 minutes typeing.

I'm only giving you one minute of my time.

Belldandy - Protector Server

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Are you still calling for factual errors? I'm not sure how long it took me to type that post, but I'm pretty it took less than 3 minutes to imagine that bon mot and then type it.

I care like I care about any person in obvious psychological distress.

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I'm so happy you care for me, Enough to help me make a Pyramid. Your the first one to ever do that. Thanks

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I stand by my statement that he deleted a post and replaced it with another one, rewrote history so to speak “5th Column”

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Can we take a poll of who cares? No? Nobody even cares about a poll of who cares about this little hatchet you're grinding away at?

Bummer. I guess actual lives will have to start up again.

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Well obviously you cared enough to respond to this post and waste 3 minutes typeing.

I'm only giving you one minute of my time.

Belldandy - Protector Server

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Because Statesman is human?

Hell, I've been calling Nozy a douchehat since issue 3. I'm surprised it took him this long to join in on the fun.


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Mmmm marvelouse conclusion there I always suspected that contrary to some of his detractors he was also human.

Thats why when given the facts that

A) His origional post quoted Armsman then unfairly slammed him claimming he did something that he did not.

then

B) he deletes the post and quickly puts up a different post, that people are surprised he would make.

I conclude that he did so to HIDE his origional post. To rewrite history so to speak. As far as I know that fits your theory that he is human.

If you have a diferent interpretation of these facts than by all means shoot. Unless there is something I don't know about Nozy that explains this.


Belldandy - Protector Server



Origional post by statesman

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And yet again, Jack pops up to take another popshot when I said that if after all this is said and done if the posted numbers showed CoH was groing beyond it's original 190,000 subscribers that it staeted with, I'd happily eat crow.


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Ahhh - here we go - the classic "let's twist words around."

Here's what I've said - our numbers are GAINING.

Doesn't mean "more than launch." It means gaining. You'll notice in SirBruce's excellent chart that we're trending UPWARDS. Does that mean we're going to gain 50,000 players from March to April? No. Does it mean we gain 1,000? Statistically more likely. Now once we get CoV into the mix - well, that's a whole other matter.


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test =#4022816

Sorry I posted that quickly so it may have been unclear. I had to deal with RL.



On Nov 3 2005 at 8:33pm Statesman posted this in response to Armsman


On Re: How come we have no red servers yet??? [Re: Armsman]
#4022203 - 11/03/05 08:33 PM
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And yet again, Jack pops up to take another popshot when I said that if after all this is said and done if the posted numbers showed CoH was groing beyond it's original 190,000 subscribers that it staeted with, I'd happily eat crow.


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Ahhh - here we go - the classic "let's twist words around."

Here's what I've said - our numbers are GAINING.

Doesn't mean "more than launch." It means gaining. You'll notice in SirBruce's excellent chart that we're trending UPWARDS. Does that mean we're going to gain 50,000 players from March to April? No. Does it mean we gain 1,000? Statistically more likely. Now once we get CoV into the mix - well, that's a whole other matter.


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This post came directly after post #4022181 - 11/03/05 08:29 PM posted by Nozybidaj



Then at 8:40 Statesman deleted his post and shoved in a response instead to Nozybidia
Re: How come we have no red servers yet??? [Re: Nozybidaj]
#4022250 - 11/03/05 08:40 PM
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Yep, here we are...sitting a blip above Toontown Online and lightyears away from WoW or Lineage. It's


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Just to compare: we haven't launched in Asia.


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A response that someone noted was poorly done for Statesman.

I then pointed out that the reason for this seemingly strange post wasis that Statesman had deleted his post and apparently hastily shoved something in its place. If you can tell me why he did this go for it.


I stand by my statement that he deleted a post and replaced it with another one, rewrote history so to speak “5th Column”

Belldandy – Protector Server

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Ummmmm thats NOT what his Post first said

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Yes, I know. So? Here's the entirety of the post I responded to:

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Yep, here we are...sitting a blip above Toontown Online and lightyears away from WoW or Lineage. It's

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Just to compare: we haven't launched in Asia.


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Is that the only point in my post you feel needs addressed? *shrug* Okay, fine. If you think you can gain 3 million in Asia to catch up go for it.

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Thanks for playing anyway.

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apparewntly the second post he did in haste to hide the first...

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Ooh, mindreading. Do me! Do me! What color am I thinking of?

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NO THAT IS NOT HIS POST...
his post is

Re: How come we have no red servers yet??? [Re: Armsman]
#4022203 - 11/03/05 08:33 PM

and it said

And yet again, Jack pops up to take another popshot when I said that if after all this is said and done if the posted numbers showed CoH was groing beyond it's original 190,000 subscribers that it staeted with, I'd happily eat crow.




Ahhh - here we go - the classic "let's twist words around."

Here's what I've said - our numbers are GAINING.

Doesn't mean "more than launch." It means gaining. You'll notice in SirBruce's excellent chart that we're trending UPWARDS. Does that mean we're going to gain 50,000 players from March to April? No. Does it mean we gain 1,000? Statistically more likely. Now once we get CoV into the mix - well, that's a whole other matter.


Thats the real post. He then deleted it while I was responding... I have a copy of it on my machine.


If he wasn't hiding it why did he delet it and then shove a poorly worded one in its place....


Belldandy - Protector Server

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Is that the only point in my post you feel needs addressed?

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I'm frankly surprised he found that part worth replying to.

I like this whole "competition" thingie you've got going, though. It's entertaining, to say the least. Maybe it needs a catch-phrase, though; y'know, to keep it current and popular?

Because Economic Competition is a Zero-Sum Game!

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Ummmmm thats NOT what his Post first said....HE DELETED IT and then put a different post up in its place. apparewntly the second post he did in haste to hide the first....
heres his origional post...



Quote:

And yet again, Jack pops up to take another popshot when I said that if after all this is said and done if the posted numbers showed CoH was groing beyond it's original 190,000 subscribers that it staeted with, I'd happily eat crow.




Jacks response
Ahhh - here we go - the classic "let's twist words around."

Here's what I've said - our numbers are GAINING.

Doesn't mean "more than launch." It means gaining. You'll notice in SirBruce's excellent chart that we're trending UPWARDS. Does that mean we're going to gain 50,000 players from March to April? No. Does it mean we gain 1,000? Statistically more likely. Now once we get CoV into the mix - well, that's a whole other matter.



Thats what he origionally said.


Belldandy - Protector Server

Statesman said

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And yet again, Jack pops up to take another popshot when I said that if after all this is said and done if the posted numbers showed CoH was groing beyond it's original 190,000 subscribers that it staeted with, I'd happily eat crow.


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Ahhh - here we go - the classic "let's twist words around."

Here's what I've said - our numbers are GAINING.

Doesn't mean "more than launch." It means gaining. You'll notice in SirBruce's excellent chart that we're trending UPWARDS. Does that mean we're going to gain 50,000 players from March to April? No. Does it mean we gain 1,000? Statistically more likely. Now once we get CoV into the mix - well, that's a whole other matter.

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Statesman or Jack,

Armsman is not twisting your words around. He simply said that you commented on his calim to eat crow if you broke 190k. How is that twisting your words? You may want to reread what he has to say. I just read his last 2 and nowhere do I see him saying anything but facts and at one or more points he even concedes that you may know more.

"But again, the actual numbers should be available in a few months. Jack COULD BE right; but sorry, with what I'm seeing currently, I kinda doubt that the numbers will hold."

You are starting to sound a little paranoid.


Belldandy - Protector Server

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I DO find it Interesting that Statesman always refers to MMORPGchart.com's numbers, but never the actual numbers posted by NCSoft itself where you CAN see subscrber actual hard subscription and usage number (just look at the MX-Excel spreadsheet they have - on opening it, while the tabs are in Korean; the info is tabulated and in English). My point is: The numbers ARE EASILY available to Jack and Co; yet he likes to refer to Sir Bruce's numbers, which even Sir Bruce himself admits are often speculation on his part because many games DO NOT publically publish numbers.

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Where do you think SirBruce gets his numbers?

Yeesh.

What's great is that people have been saying we're ddddoooommmeeedd since launch, and yet surprisingly, here we are.

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Statesman.

You do realize those numbers are from March of 2005?

They do not support any claim that COH has increased in numbers in I4 or I5 and can easily be interpreted to show a continuous loss in American players since I2.

After all the numbers ONLY go up when you released the European Market in January of 2005 and even then by less than 16,000 subscribers. Unless the European market received less then 16,000 subscribers than SirBruces numbers indicate a continuous decline in the American market since July of 2004.

Personally I had no interest in this thread but since I read the Dev forum and you have now posted 3 times here it made me curious. Rather then wave your hand at another website, which may be flawed in the information and at the VERY least has information that is long out of date, simply provide the figures. By not doing so, I must admit it, leaves one with the impression that you are being very selective on the truth of the matter. Additionally it encourages a thread to run purely on speculation and vague pieces of information thus increasing the chance of flaming, trolling and other forms of posting that I assume you don’t like.

A simple post from you such as this would settle a large portion of this debate.

Paid Subscribers COH
Date America Europe Asia
040105 132K 21K 0K
050105 158K 22K 0K
060105 179K 24K 0K
070105 184K 23K 0K
080105 189K 24K 0K
090105 188K 25K 0K
100105 179K 22K 0K
110105 203K 33K 0K

Considering this is pure guess work if these numbers are correct then I expect a job at Cryptic as your personal psychic advisor Either that or new corporate spy.


Belldandy - Protector Server

Please note that I am posting on a friends account as mine is still saying "Game account is set to deactivate". It is not and I hope it gets fixed soon. My regular account Cathulhu.