Well SR certianly needed something. I am not sure if this is exactly a best-fit, but something that could help them out (especially with ED looming on the horizon) is good. Ice could use some love as well while you folks are at it. 
I had to ask about this though:
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I would suggest, however, not removing the flame-retarding longjohns until you deal with Ice Tankers and the perceived Nerf to Invuln Tankers
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Perceived? Losing (before this ED nonsense I might add) 50% resistance to Fire/Cold/Energy/Negative Energy (and that is only if you 6-slotted all our applicable res powers like I did. If not it's worse!) is certainly beyond simply 'perceived'. It's quite bloody obvious.
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6) Again on numbers, if the "lucky" aspect of the set is to be preserved, you could make the resistance variable a la <omitted> so that it has a % chance to kick in after X hit points. And subsequently, it could a very high lvl of damage mitigation without being overpowered.
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically, its currently based on luck. The more unlucky you are, the more you will get.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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4) Please make the description of the power term his as "damage mitigation" and not resistance. I agree with others who say that "resistance" breaks the theme. Let the description prevent players from thinking of this as toughness or armor.
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I second the motion! All in favor say, "Aye"
I just want to say Whoo Hoo! Can't wait to see the numbers!
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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Why would I get BETTER at rolling with a punch the more I get my face smashed in? Shouldn't the dam-res start high? (I understand that this doesn't quite work with game mechanics, so let's move on.)
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Because we SR scrappers are a cocky bunch until we get bloody. 
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Yea, it'll be nice to slow down the incoming damage... a little... but it's doubtful it will stop the 1shot/2shot issue that we deal with, it won't cover the loss of the 3slots of health as some of us 6slot health for a poor man's Regen, we still haven't dealt with tohit buffs and high accuracy negating SR....
What else we got?
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The 1 shot issue is still a problem but the RES will kick in for shot #2 of the 2 shot scenario if I understand it correctly.
Plus what the heck actually one shots us anymore that we can actually face?
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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I find it shocking and offensive that Jack Emmert has time to post about this but does not have time to address the issue of ED which is obviously the most pressing thing on the playerbase colective mind now. Way to through up some more smokescreen, Mr. Emmert. Now care to explain how ED is going to improve our gameplay?
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In his defense: I'm sorry, but there's no way for him to comment on ED to *EVERYBODY'S* satisfaction in a short little post like the one made for this announcement (5-10 minutes of typing basic numerical facts, tops). What you want would require an actual dialogue, a going back and forth between people, and that would consume considerably more of everybody's time, and probably won't resolve all that much at this point anyhow. It'll be okay - honest. We'll learn how to cope with ED, it will (I've no doubt) get changed after a while, and things will continue. I'm not saying it'll be easy or you'll necessarily like it (lord knows I've heard enough "I'm quitting - ED sux" posts), but that's pretty much it for now.
Well, I like the idea for super-reflexes (I've been wanting to make a scrapper again for a while). And if people like me are able to do their job (Empaths, people with Heal, who buff, etc), you should be relatively okay. Heck, this makes my job a little bit easier - have you ever had to heal in a fight where everything is going south very quickly? Ever had to repeatedly press your heal-aura and heal-other binded keys because you couldn't keep up with the damage output (yes, I know it'll fire off as soon as it's available - it's a nervous twitch)? Yes, I know that SR won't be as strong as before, but WE'RE ALL taking a cut across the board due to enhancements as well (and yes, I know, some much worse than others). At least this will help SR users out some.
Thanks for the announcement, Jack. I'm still going to be playing COH after ED, and I'm still looking forward to COV when it comes out (preordered the Collector's version). And I'll withhold judgement on ED until a week or two after the finalized update (ED and all) goes live...
The title of this thread is oxymoronic. I'm not holding my breath.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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1) For thematic purposes i.e. this is a form of rolling with punch, it would great if the +RES could be to Melee/Ranged/AoE as are the passives. In addition, they should be negated when our +DEF is eliminated.
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I was just assuming it was a generic resistance to all?
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2) It'd be great if the amount of +RES was tied to the amount of +DEF.
3) Please don't let us slot for +RES. It will mean you will have to set a lower base value, and, those slots we got back from ED will be consumed. I like the slots I got back. However, in the spirit of customization, I suspect you will let us slot it.
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I'm hoping they let us slot it, because there's no history of +res being based off of +def values, so the +res value would be unenhanceable. A lower +res, yet enhanceable, base should be good because we are dealing with the impending ED and 2-3 slots max enhancement effectiveness for DEF anyway.
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4) Please make the description of the power term his as "damage mitigation" and not resistance. I agree with others who say that "resistance" breaks the theme. Let the description dissuade players from thinking of this as toughness or armor.
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Nah, call it what it is. We don't have to cater to everyone who can't figure out that +RES can be attained by dodging, luckiness, or agility just as easily as +DEF.
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5) As far as the numbers, it'll be interesting to hear how you want this to help us. In other words, what situation should /SR be better at because of this. Can an AV that would normally two shot us still be able to two shot us?
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Obviously, an AV will still be able to two shot us, we don't even need to know the RES numbers to know that. Most of them could one shot us, but for those that don't, then we'll be much too low on health and even if we got hit for 80%, and capped our RES at 75%, the next hit would kill.... Unless we healed a little by then . I strongly suspect we won't be hitting the RES cap, though, at low health with our passives, lol.
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6) Again on numbers, if the "lucky" aspect of the set is to be preserved, you could make the resistance variable a la <omitted> so that it has a % chance to kick in after X hit points. And subsequently, it could a very high lvl of damage mitigation without being overpowered.
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Ewww, yuck! We're already getting a lower chance to be hit for that ability to start getting the RES, don't we want the RES to work everytime we're suddenly having an anxiety attack because we're hurting bad?
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My SO played a katana/reflex scrapper into the 20s. While damage taken was certainly starting to be a real issue, their primary complaint about Super Reflexes was not that it let them take damage, but that the defense bonuses died so quickly once the powers shut down due to OOE situations.
When good Endurance Management practice was feasible, it was not so big an issue, but it really came to bear when my SO was trying to make choices about burning down an opponent, or trying to DPS agro an enemy off of a squishy. The DPS was there, of course, but burning the endurance necessary to do so meant that the powers were likely to shut off while the character was in the yellow or red.
To counter this, perhaps the damage resistance could have a short expiry timer so that it lasts just a few seconds after the defense powers shut down?
Just a thought.
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Um, didn't he say it is added to the auto powers? Meaning they never shut off?
Or am I misunderstanding it?
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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I find it shocking and offensive that Jack Emmert has time to post about this but does not have time to address the issue of ED which is obviously the most pressing thing on the playerbase colective mind now. Way to through up some more smokescreen, Mr. Emmert. Now care to explain how ED is going to improve our gameplay?
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Actually he posted three ED posts already. I mean I am not the biggest fan of ED but give him credit - he did respond to some of the ED points. People may not agree with him and people may want him to post more but if you disagree with the change is there really anything else to say?
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
I'm going into wait and see mode. Sounds decent, but depends on implementation. Lately, the ideas coming out of the Dev team sound a lot better than the actual numbers that back them up.
Just off the concept, I'd say that it's a nice gesture, but I still see 6-slotted Aid Self and perma-PB as being the star powers of SR defense.
A few things I'd like to see.
Meaningful resistance outside of one-shot range. I'm looking at whoever came up with the Defiance numbers while I say this. If I'm going to count on it to keep me alive, it needs to be useful in doing just that, not just giving me a statistical anomaly on my way to the ground. Though, of course, you have to be careful or you'll overshadow the toggles. Okay, at this point, it'd be hard not to, really.
A setup that gives me some useful ability without making me take all 3 passives. Right now, passives are my "there's nothing else to take right now" power choices. If I have to take them all, that's 7 powers I have to have from my secondary, with the other two being Quick and Elude.
Some way to enhance this ability. Right now, I've got a lot of SR powers that I have to take, but can't really slot past 3 or 4 slots (and get anything noticable for my investment, that is), and a lot of slots that I don't know what to do with. Seems to suggest a solution, eh?
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Ice could use some love as well while you folks are at it.
[/ QUOTE ] out of curiosity and completely off topic, are there threads which explore/establish Ice's comparative effectivenss to Inv and other sets under ED? I guess i'm wonding if Ice is going to be as bad off as Inv or worse.
I think some of the challenges for the dev in applying this to Ice may be:
1) thematic - if this is supposed to be associated with /SR's "dodging," then it's not clear that any other +DEF set should get it. I guess i never thought ice was about "doging" per se. In other words, if Ice gets this, then every set with some +DEF could argue for this. If they limit this power change to strictly "Super Reflexes" then they won't have to open that can of worms.
2) One of the reason I think they had to do something like this is based on the Gamespot screenshots. Remember /Ninji? Ninji has the toggles with the AoE, but it also got a bunch of other powers in place of the passives. This forces the question of whether the passives in SR were balanced with all that other stuff? Did Dodge and Agile make up for the reconstruction like power? Did they make up for caltrops? At 5% +DEF, coupled with a toggle max of about 20% ...that answer has to be a resounding no. Ice doesn't have to make up for the powers in /Ninjitsu the way /SR's passives have to.
3) Ice got that PBAoE dmg debuff and /SR did not ge that. This means that the devs see the powers/problems associated with Ice/ and /SR as requiring different solutions. Personally, I like that. I don't want a power that Ice/ has in /SR just because it helps the problem. I'd like to keep the Ice/ solutions as separate and unique from the /SR solutions as possible.
Please don't misconstrue this as a vote against Ice needing improvement. I'd just like to see them get something that was more thematic with Ice than a "rolling with the punch" power....just my opinion.
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I've alluded to this in a couple of places, but I wanted to describe something we'll be doing for Super Reflexes quite soon...
Super Reflexes Auto powers (Agile, Dodge, and Lucky) now add some minor damage resistance. This Damage resistance starts at 0%, but improves as the caster loses HP. The Resistance kicks in at 60% HP (when HP bar first changes color) and markedly increases at 40% and 20% (again, when the bar changes color). We have not yet determined the exact values.
This change is in addition to the recent modification that gave most Defense Primary and Secondary powers resistance to Defense Debuffs (self Defense powers).
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Interesting. I will have to think about this for a while.
Off the top it sounds interesting...
but underneath is sounds like yet another iteration of Defiance.
Not holding my breath as to it ever being useful.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
I'll be holding my breath until this goes to test.
Don't want to sound ugrateful, but I really didn't want resistance to be the fix to defense sets. If I wanted a resistance build i would of picked something other then SR. Why not instead of Resistance make this a defense bonus. starts at 0 and as we get hit more the higher our defense gets. Neither resistance or defense is going to help us with getting one shotted by AV's (got one shotted by a 52 seige like 4 times in a row with elude on weee). This would seem a lot more "thematic" and "Heroic" to me then all of a sudden me pulling resistance out of my cape.
Makes no sense, but thanks for aknowledging that your development team is incapable of actually fixing "Defense".
[ QUOTE ]
I've alluded to this in a couple of places, but I wanted to describe something we'll be doing for Super Reflexes quite soon...
Super Reflexes Auto powers (Agile, Dodge, and Lucky) now add some minor damage resistance. This Damage resistance starts at 0%, but improves as the caster loses HP. The Resistance kicks in at 60% HP (when HP bar first changes color) and markedly increases at 40% and 20% (again, when the bar changes color). We have not yet determined the exact values.
This change is in addition to the recent modification that gave most Defense Primary and Secondary powers resistance to Defense Debuffs (self Defense powers).
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Ok so exactly how many Inherent Powers are you guys gonna give us while trying to fix us after you nerf us :-p
I dont get it . How resisting blows is related to Super Reflexes ? While that solution could make the powerset better , i really dont see how that is making sense .
How about changing the name of the powerset ?
Resisting injuries really isnt the same as dodging them .
Maybe Super Reflexes is just too much breaking your game Jack and maybe the whole set should be rebuilt ?
Anyway , for me , this bonus looks more like a crutch than a real solution .
Maybe in the name of game balance , some powersets should get eradicated since they were either performing too good ( Invulnerability ) or were performing too poorly ( Ice tanks , SR ) .
After the ED patch , what will happen to Regeneration since theyll mostly have only 3 Heals in Integration ? Will you also give them Resistances to damage ?
I may sound harsh but i got completely burned out of all these "solutions" that were brought in game lately . I still hold a grudge because of Suppression and i havent forget any nerfs ...
I really wish that someday you explain to us the "vision" thoroughly .
Thanks for at least trying to come out with something ...
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
[ QUOTE ]
I've alluded to this in a couple of places, but I wanted to describe something we'll be doing for Super Reflexes quite soon...
Super Reflexes Auto powers (Agile, Dodge, and Lucky) now add some minor damage resistance. This Damage resistance starts at 0%, but improves as the caster loses HP. The Resistance kicks in at 60% HP (when HP bar first changes color) and markedly increases at 40% and 20% (again, when the bar changes color). We have not yet determined the exact values.
This change is in addition to the recent modification that gave most Defense Primary and Secondary powers resistance to Defense Debuffs (self Defense powers).
[/ QUOTE ]
Ice Tanks? Please?
[ QUOTE ]
I've alluded to this in a couple of places, but I wanted to describe something we'll be doing for Super Reflexes quite soon...
Super Reflexes Auto powers (Agile, Dodge, and Lucky) now add some minor damage resistance. This Damage resistance starts at 0%, but improves as the caster loses HP. The Resistance kicks in at 60% HP (when HP bar first changes color) and markedly increases at 40% and 20% (again, when the bar changes color). We have not yet determined the exact values.
This change is in addition to the recent modification that gave most Defense Primary and Secondary powers resistance to Defense Debuffs (self Defense powers).
[/ QUOTE ]
Is it slottable? If you have Agile AND Dodge is it better? If you have Agile, Dodge AND Lucky is it better still?
[ QUOTE ]
I've alluded to this in a couple of places, but I wanted to describe something we'll be doing for Super Reflexes quite soon...
Super Reflexes Auto powers (Agile, Dodge, and Lucky) now add some minor damage resistance. This Damage resistance starts at 0%, but improves as the caster loses HP. The Resistance kicks in at 60% HP (when HP bar first changes color) and markedly increases at 40% and 20% (again, when the bar changes color). We have not yet determined the exact values.
This change is in addition to the recent modification that gave most Defense Primary and Secondary powers resistance to Defense Debuffs (self Defense powers).
[/ QUOTE ]
While I don't like *everything* you do with the game, this is one of my fondest wishes, implemented in a way I find interesting and fun. I thank you, my scrapper thanks you.
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I find it shocking and offensive that Jack Emmert has time to post about this but does not have time to address the issue of ED which is obviously the most pressing thing on the playerbase colective mind now. Way to through up some more smokescreen, Mr. Emmert. Now care to explain how ED is going to improve our gameplay?
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This is a classic political spin .. misdirection .. toss a bone over *there* to distract people from the large object heaing towards their ********.
This makes zero sense -- why do we become resistant to damage as we get hurt? -- and I can't see the numbers possibly even beginning to make up for what we're going to lose to ED.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Why would we want +RES in a DEF set? Sure, if you must, add +RES - but to link it to damage is ludicrous. This is completely against the theme of Super Reflexes. We dodge, we avoid, we weave - we cant be hit. Give us a higher DEF cap or something.
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. Or will we not be able to slot this?
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Ahh, this will be good with ED coming.. we CAN diversify our enhancements, at least
It still won't provide "one" shot protection, but 2-3 shot protection will be good
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This would be really cool, assuming you can enhance it. Scrappers would have to make the choice between slotting for endurance usage, or a little more resistance that only helps them when things have already gone south.
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Except that because they are auto powers Agile, Dodge and Lucky don't USE endurance.