PvP is the same in I7 as it is now. The Defense Scaler (better called Critter Accuracy by Aranaville) is just a change for PvE to provide defense builds a better scale of damage mitigation when fighting anything up to +5 level critters. Note that a critter is anything not conrolled by a human player which is why PvP is not changed.
I have a simple idea to make the resistance from the passives more fair. As it stands at the moment (so I understand) if you have HP below a certain level then you get a certain amount of damage resistance, dependent on how low your HP really is.
The problem with this is if you get hit with sufficient damage to eat a large chunk your HP in one shot then you get little or no damage resistance applied to that value, and that shot can easily kill you. The effect is that the biggest single strike damage (that hits) totally undoes any benefit from the resistance that was added.
My suggestion is to apply incremental resistance on incomming damage. For example:
1. Divide the scrappers HP in to quarters.
2. Scrapper is at full health and gets hit with a big strike.
3. Apply no resistance to the quantity of damage that takes the HP down to 3/4.
4. Apply some small resistance for damage passing through to 1/2 HP.
5. Bigger resistance to 1/4 HP... etc... you get the picture.
It doesn't have to be quarters, that was just my example. Finer increments are easy enough, and it should provide a bigger chance of survivability with big heavy damagers, i.e. most AV's and Monsters, Hewer Elite's, and so on.
Sorry if this has already been considered and rejected.
Ok, I got this solves all the PvP / PvE problems. Why not just change the Name of the game to City of Cookie Cutters: Regn Scrappers and Bappers. While you are at it you can create no Individuality because a Controller can not kill a Tank.
Fixes: All classes are not equal and should never be.
Scrappers - High Melee - Little to No range - Med Armor - Low Effects
Tanks Melee - Med Melee - Little to No Range - High Armor - Low Effects
Controller - Low Melee - High Range - Low armor - High Effects
Defenders - Low Melee - High Range - Med Armor - Med Effects
Blasters - High to Low Melee (why) - High Range - Med Armor - Med Effects
It seems only 1 archtype here has not been engaged in Nerf Bat. Quit ignoring the over power class Positron!
As far as SR - We give up heals for Passive armors and Click Effect protect. Problem is our Armor is not capable of doing it job. Not everyone wants Elude or should have to get it to play the game. If it Elude that is stoping the fixes to SR nerf it not the regular power set. Level 38 power should not be god like but they all are. Bring back Heroes and Villains to game - Blasters Range not Melee, Scrappers Melee not Range (Sorry Spines should be a Blaster archtype,) Healers heal not solo AVs (Sorry Huricane complainers,) and Stalkers should use godily stealth to hide from a enemy(watch all old films.) My SR Stalker is gimped enough with all the AoEs in PvP we should get immunity if we have a power activated to move thru it.
Yes, still want Bappers removed from game till Villains get Blasters to for payback.
PS: Look at energy on both sides it is way overpowered. Lay off Gimping the Gimped.
Really... the better solution would be to change the def scaling down... it should really change by half as much as it does per lvl.
The game is designed right now so that you should be able to handle +2s to +4s in later game. This may not be intended, but it is. Now players are used to this and it ticks them off that only certain builds can do it and only people good at building them.
Really there should be some ground rules established.
Controllers don't do damage, but hold. If it takes two scrappers to kill a certain boss, no reason why it shouldn't take two controllers to stack holds.
Etc.
Really Statesman, don't buy into people's complaints that an SR can't handle a +4 boss. The game should be balanced around handling even con to +2s. All combos of power sets should perform near the same in these lvls, with slight comprimises for lethal based sets damaging lethal resistant mobs.
The game almost always allows you to choose your foes, if you can't damage a clockie as much, don't complain... just use your head and avoid that foe.
If you can't resist damage, don't fight +3-4s
So we no longer need the +AOE because of the Accuracy Scaling. I'm not entirely sure of the mechanics of how it works but hopefully it does indeed satisify the masses.
As for the rollback on the increase to the passives, I'm sad to see it go but it's not a major loss. As it's been said, you can't miss what you never had. XD
dude, go PLAY in the training room and see how good defworks now.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
The problem I've always had with SR is that you don't get any AoE protection until lvl 28. Try playing against Council hand grenades in the Volcano TF at lvl 27 -- it's impossible. You'll be thrown into the air so many times your butt will never touch the ground until you're dead.
I think that AoE defense toggles/passives should be folded into the ranged defense toggles/passives. That would free up a couple of power slots so that the devs can put something better in their places (like damage mitigation toggles/passives, maybe).
NewScrapper
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I think that AoE defense toggles/passives should be folded into the ranged defense toggles/passives. That would free up a couple of power slots so that the devs can put something better in their places (like damage mitigation toggles/passives, maybe).
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I really like this idea. With the current SR powerset, you have little choice in order to be effective - you must take all of the SR selections. A change like this would open up /SR builds for more creativity.
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I think that AoE defense toggles/passives should be folded into the ranged defense toggles/passives. That would free up a couple of power slots so that the devs can put something better in their places (like damage mitigation toggles/passives, maybe).
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I really like this idea. With the current SR powerset, you have little choice in order to be effective - you must take all of the SR selections. A change like this would open up /SR builds for more creativity.
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I agree and would love to see a "reflective damage aura" (takes an amount of the incoming damage and sends it back to the source, like you are so fast the bullets etc. richocet back)) in place of the toggle and make lucky a passive with that gives an increased chance to crit.
However I don't think the Devs are hip to this as it has been suggested numerous times to no avial.
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I think that AoE defense toggles/passives should be folded into the ranged defense toggles/passives. That would free up a couple of power slots so that the devs can put something better in their places (like damage mitigation toggles/passives, maybe).
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I really like this idea. With the current SR powerset, you have little choice in order to be effective - you must take all of the SR selections. A change like this would open up /SR builds for more creativity.
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I agree and would love to see a "reflective damage aura" (takes an amount of the incoming damage and sends it back to the source, like you are so fast the bullets etc. richocet back)) in place of the toggle and make lucky a passive with that gives an increased chance to crit.
However I don't think the Devs are hip to this as it has been suggested numerous times to no avial.
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Bullets seem to do the most damage to my SR scrapper 
and something like this would be great! :P
you were getting knocked around???
with practiced brawler?????
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
I really dont understand this. My friend's katana/sr is lvl 50, he has never had any of the passive powers. On live he is SLIGHTLY disadvantaged against higher level mobs, particularly those with high acc like rikti drones and rularuu eyeballs. On Test, tried twice in the last week, ALSO with NO passives, he is a GOD. I really don't understand the claims that SR must have the passives AND the toggles to be any good.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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you were getting knocked around??? with practiced brawler?????
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If I remember correctly, Practiced Brawler is a click power, not a toggle, and it isn't perma -- (is anything perma anymore?) So, if PB goes down even for a heartbeat, you're grenade-surfing.
NewScrapper
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you were getting knocked around??? with practiced brawler?????
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If I remember correctly, Practiced Brawler is a click power, not a toggle, and it isn't perma -- (is anything perma anymore?) So, if PB goes down even for a heartbeat, you're grenade-surfing.
NewScrapper
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It's perma with two even level SO's, and not too far off with two green DO's. Throw quickness in the mix and you get a tiny overlap with the SO's. You should have been effectively immune to knockback by level 23 or so if you'd slotted PB. If you didn't, well AOE is the least of your problems. The only times I had problem with knockback is before I had PB on Auto (hate the rooting animation) and forget to recycle it manually.
Not only is it perma with two SOs, with Quickness and 3 SOs it overlaps for about 30 seconds. Really, after lvl 22 or 24, barring an (ill advised pre-elude) attempt at scranking there is no reason an SR scrapper should EVER be mezzed or knocked back in PvE.
Also, there are still MANY perma powers. Self Buffs include Practiced Brawler, Siphon Speed and Boost Range. Ally Buffs include (ALMOST perma with Hasten) Accelerate Metabolism, Inertial Reduction, Fortitude, I'm sure I am missing a variety of powers here. Attack and debuff powers include Caltrops, Flash Arrow, Tar Patch, again more than I know of or care to name.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Bullets seem to do the most damage to my SR scrapper and something like this would be great! :P
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Bullets seem to do a lot of damage to SR because a lot of lethal gunfire actually has -DEF debuffing in it. Check your buff bar the next time something machine-guns you, and right click on the machine gun buff icon that shows up (if you can safely). You'll probably see -DEF as a secondary effect on a lot of gunfire (family machine guns, malta assault rifles, etc).
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I really dont understand this. My friend's katana/sr is lvl 50, he has never had any of the passive powers. On live he is SLIGHTLY disadvantaged against higher level mobs, particularly those with high acc like rikti drones and rularuu eyeballs. On Test, tried twice in the last week, ALSO with NO passives, he is a GOD. I really don't understand the claims that SR must have the passives AND the toggles to be any good.
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Because another option to taking the passives is to take katana or broadsword, and use parry/divine avalanche. Parry has comparable defense to the SR toggles and superior defense to SR passives (but melee only). Kat/SR is really Kat/SR/SR.
Another alternative is to go DM/SR: DM's accuracy debuffing is also comparable in strength to SR's toggles and superior to the passives (and good against anything you can hit). DM's debuffing is so good that my DM/regen gets hit by things like high level bosses only a little more often than my MA/SR does - with fully slotted toggles and passives.
If you're playing Kat/SR, you aren't playing the same SR I'm playing.
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you were getting knocked around??? with practiced brawler?????
[/ QUOTE ]
If I remember correctly, Practiced Brawler is a click power, not a toggle, and it isn't perma -- (is anything perma anymore?) So, if PB goes down even for a heartbeat, you're grenade-surfing.
NewScrapper
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You can make practiced brawler and boost range perma, at least of the self buffs. There are other things you can kind of make perma, like patches (things like quicksand, tar patch, caltrops, and the like can sometimes be made "perma" as well).
If Practiced Brawler couldn't be made perma, do you think any SR scrapper would currently be complaining about defense?
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In all seriousness:
Are the status effect attacks of Martial Arts and Spines not enough to pull you through with lower defense?
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Not only is it perma with two SOs, with Quickness and 3 SOs it overlaps for about 30 seconds.
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Okay, I'm probably confused then -- maybe my issue with trying to do the Volcano TF was simply that at lvl 27 I kept taking a mountain of AoE damage with no defense against it. I just remember dying a LOT on that bad boy -- more dying than usual, I believe, and all the AoE was a huge factor in that.
NewScrapper
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The problem I've always had with SR is that you don't get any AoE protection until lvl 28. Try playing against Council hand grenades in the Volcano TF at lvl 27 -- it's impossible. You'll be thrown into the air so many times your butt will never touch the ground until you're dead.
NewScrapper
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I'm sorry, but I somehow managed this TF with both my Blaster and Defender, neither of which have knockback or status resists 
Centinull
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The problem I've always had with SR is that you don't get any AoE protection until lvl 28. Try playing against Council hand grenades in the Volcano TF at lvl 27 -- it's impossible. You'll be thrown into the air so many times your butt will never touch the ground until you're dead.
NewScrapper
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I'm sorry, but I somehow managed this TF with both my Blaster and Defender, neither of which have knockback or status resists
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SR scrappers have to be very careful about where they engage in large teams with AoE prior to Evasion (which is 35, not 28 - lucky is not exactly stellar AoE protection). A blaster and a defender can just stay far, far away from the action and still be effective. An SR scrapper who wanders too close to the tank can be blown to bits before they know what hit them if they aren't careful.
Of course, wander too far off and you'll grab too much aggro: SR scrappers from the high 20s to the mid 30s have to be very close-orbiting satellites around the tanks: not too far away to be buffed/healed, not too close to be kaboomed. Some get good at this, some don't.
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You'll be thrown into the air so many times your butt will never touch the ground until you're dead.
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And PB is perma with 2SOs, so you're never thrown anywhere. Damaged, yes, but tossed around? Only if you don't have PB on auto.
Be well, people of CoH.
I still run Hasten on auto(character concept is pretty much pure speedster, which is the main reason I still lament the loss of perma-Elude; I miss the travel buff). With three recharges and Quickness, it's not quite perma, but there's little downtime, and with that setup PB is perma(with about 15 seconds overlap) with just the default slot for recharge. Once you hit 22, you should never get knocked around again, at least PvE. Maybe once in a great, great while on full 8-man teams versus mobs with heavy knockback.
In fact, the protection from PB is so good that playing through the game again as my blaster, I'm constantly surprised when I find out that mobs have status effect attacks. (I had no idea what the big deal with Sappers was, for instance, until I started looking for ways to earn my mez badges. And did you know that Ring Mistresses have this horrible attack called Mask of Vitiation? I had never even heard of it until I was playing something other than my SR scrapper.)
I just saw this topic and would like to ask, the Survivability you talk about, does that apply to pvp? because i dont even take my sr scrap into pvp anymore.