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To counter this, perhaps the damage resistance could have a short expiry timer so that it lasts just a few seconds after the defense powers shut down?
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This is in the Passives - they never shut down.
This my friends, is the begining of the end. Buffs to SR! Wonderful! I'm very happy for SR. I'm going to be keeping an eye out for what build is buffed to bring it in line with others due to ED. The end is neigh. 
its about time.
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Let's play the if/then game...
IF:
Statesman said, "We've decided to increase all of SR's DEF numbers to a new amount. Toggles will be a base 100% increase to your defense and passives will be a base 50% increase to your defense,"
THEN:
The replies would be, "But that doesn't stop the chance of being one-shotted! We need some resistance in the set!"
IF:
Statesman said, "We've granted you 50% resistance to all dmg except Psi as long as you take your passives ebcause, in the theory that you have superior reflexes, you would not get smacked full-brunt with that alpha strike,"
THEN:
The replies would be, "That doesn't make any sense with the set! Increase my defense, not my resistance!"
IF:
I were Statesman, I would probably say, "You'd complain if they hung you with a new rope."
[/ QUOTE ]
IF:
This concept was monotonic resistance, and not defiance-like scaling resistance
THEN:
You might have a point
IF:
The devs ever considered increasing SR defenses to make them properly balanced with the other scrapper sets
THEN:
Your post wouldn't be a nonsensical strawman.
IF:
SR was actually materially balanced with the other scrapper mitigation sets
THEN:
There'd be a lot less people complaining about changes they perceive to make less sense than other alternatives
IF:
this was relevant to the discussion
THEN:
I'd be forced to craft a more detailed rebuttal.
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Tisk, tisk. It's not nice to start a flame war just because you got made a fool in another thread. I'll be nice and stay out of this one since my only beef is with those who insist on whining and complaining when they just got a buff that does not apply to any other powerset but theirs. No matter if it was a .0000001% increase in DEF to the least taken passive, that's no reason to not say thank you. All I'm trying to spread is a little Southern hospitality.
Enjoy your childish insults 
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
Not sure if anyone brought up the same issues as ice tanks have about not surviving the alpha strike.
Statesman, the main problem noticeable with super reflexes is that you are the most likely one to get killed by one hit from any Archvillain and this makes it less desireable.
The reasons are the lack of dull pain and real damage resist.
How is taking less damage once you are hurt, going to compete when certain things that only take down *18% of the life of an invulnerable Scrapper, can ultimately kill the SuperR hero with just one single shot?
The precentage was calculated assuming dull pain 40% health boost and 75% resistance are available to the most common types of damage.(140*25%=100*18%)
This of course may change slightly with ED coming.
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Tisk, tisk. It's not nice to start a flame war just because you got made a fool in another thread.
[/ QUOTE ]
Once again, your distorted perception of reality defies imagination. Just out of curiousity, what color is the sky in your world?
[ QUOTE ]
Enjoy your childish insults
[/ QUOTE ]
Find one. I'll spot you "childish" and let you just find an actual insult in my post. Your perception of anyone who points out that you don't make sense as being insulting is a defense mechanism that must get highly overworked. You can continue to present this dubious display of unjustified superiority, but it does not in any way bolster any of your supposed claims to significant understanding of SR game balance issues.
And if you are shooting for enfant terrible of the SR community, really, you are going to have to escalate beyond simply being prosaically annoying.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
A lot of people may be upset at this conceptually, but I, for one, am glad SR is finally getting *something* else! I've seen people comparing Regen and SR, calling them both one-trick ponies...but that's not true. SR is truly the one-trick pony of the defensive sets. Ice does have some resists (tho I feel for you, my ice brothers and sisters!), and Inv has defense, healing, AND resistances...well, I won't get into it here.
What I'm saying is that it's finally nice to have something else. I don't know how it will play, but the effort is noted.
As a side note, I have never understood why Hasten is not in the SR line. I'm not talking the glowy hands--I'm talking about a click power to increase recharge time. Quickness is nice, yes, but that's something I'd expect to find in a pool power, not a secondary line. Isn't being fast all what SR is about? If Hasten is such a big deal, switch it around with Quickness. People won't have to spend slots on a pool power then, it'll be on all the time, and the only ones you have to worry about it being "perma" on is the SR scrappes, and there are few of us left already.
Anyway. It's a good start that sounds good on paper anyway.
"Looks like we arrived in the nick of time. What does that make us?"
"Big damn heroes, sir."
"Ain't we just."
-Mal & Zoe, "Firefly"
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As a side note, I have never understood why Hasten is not in the SR line. I'm not talking the glowy hands--I'm talking about a click power to increase recharge time. Quickness is nice, yes, but that's something I'd expect to find in a pool power, not a secondary line. Isn't being fast all what SR is about? If Hasten is such a big deal, switch it around with Quickness. People won't have to spend slots on a pool power then, it'll be on all the time, and the only ones you have to worry about it being "perma" on is the SR scrappes, and there are few of us left already.
[/ QUOTE ]
I seem to recall someone making that suggestion a long time ago, but I cannot remember the circumstances of it. It seemed like a good idea to me at the time, and it still seems like a good idea now.
A click-speed power like hasten could match up well with (the now clickified) instant healing or invincibility, especially if it was more powerful than what everyone else could get from the power pools. It might even make sense to combine that with other people's suggestions to add a small amount of healing to quickness, giving us two things to slot for in the power.
A click heal/speed "feels" like it would be balanced against invincibility, instant healing, and cloak of fear, and would be a nice tier 7 SR power (swap it with lucky), and it would be the equivalent SR "ooh, cool" power at level 28.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Interesting idea. I'll give it a try. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't skeptical.
And I hate lying.
"Ooo! A little fight in you! I like that..."
"Then you're going to love me."
[ QUOTE ]
sounds like defiance. which still doesn't do anything for blasters.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. /SR scrappers are melee blasters.
And while it's nice that the devs are finally admitting that the set has desperately needed some help, it still does nothing to mitigate what has me furious over ED: the slower pace of combat and the increased downtime between fights for all my toons. My between-fight downtime is already large enough that I leave the computer to do other things. I don't see how ED will do anything but make that worse.
Just to point out, given that ED will reduce the amount of defence a SR can get, this can only really be called a buff if the net result is better than what SRs already have. Otherwise its a nerf, or a best, a change.
Also, not really sure how useful it'll be. My SR has happily sat in the red for minutes, slowly letting his health build up whilst fighting. Its the times that you health just disapears in 1-3 big hits that all happen at once that is the problem.
But, I guess we will have to wait and see how it works out.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
I found a way to justify it in my head (using rolling with the punch approach).
Take Dodge: You avoid getting hit, you move out of the way of every attack, hence you don't get hurt. As you're weaker, you get tired so you get lousier dodging. But you still can attempt to dodge, but you only get halfway out of the attack, hence it hurts less. (Or course for this to work Def should go down while res goes up.)
STATESMAN: Will the res increase be in jumps at 60-40-20, or will be a gradual scalling thing from 60(low res) to 20(max res)?
I'm finding later on I only get 1 hit against my life at those ranges of health. I don't think this is of any advantage at all. A defense buff would be more useful... I mean it seems that reflexes starts at the overall lowest amount on toggles anyways... 12.5ish or whatever the guesstimate is.
As a scrapper I tend to go for bosses, as reflexes I tend to do well against them since I don't get hit... but against bosses and lts of +2 or +3 I'm going down in maybe 3 or 4 hits tops... I dont' think a "minor amount of resistance" that kicks in at 40% hps is going to keep them from dropping me often enough for it to matter.
And when I'm in a pack of minions, unless it's mixed with bosses/lts (which I have no business tanking as a non invuln scrapper) it's easy enough to jump out and run and recover. They're the only ones that dont' do damage in such large chunks for it to matter as much for the reistance. Practiced brawler already gives me the ability to run more often then not so it's not a issue with smaller damage amounts.
So yeah, to recap... neat sounding, save you a hit 1 in 10 times maybe, but mostly useless from my standpoint.
Something just doesn't seem right to me....
[ QUOTE ]
Super Reflexes Auto powers (Agile, Dodge, and Lucky) now add some minor damage resistance. This Damage resistance starts at 0%, but improves as the caster loses HP. The Resistance kicks in at 60% HP (when HP bar first changes color) and markedly increases at 40% and 20%
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah. There is is. The word 'minor'. If I recall correctly the damage resistance inspiration has a 'minor' resistance of 5%. It's virtually useless on its own.
Also the way this thing works....seems a bit....Defiance-like.
Not to mention it only applies to our passives, which we tend not to slot that heavily in the first place...what about our toggles that ED is hurting the most?
What percentages are we looking at States?
Is it enhanceable?
What will be done for our main defence, the toggles?
Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!
When I first saw the thread I was curious, when I first read the thread and simply close it and moved on. Well, after thinking about it and reading it a second time, this is NOT a buff. This is a cover your [censored], while you run for cover like a dog with its tail between its legs, move. Come on all you have to do is look at every other passive +res in the game. Is there one that has a base of over 10%, I don't believe so? You know what my new plan is, head in let my health fall to about 20-25%, then sit back and let the +res and critical hits save my weak [censored]. Sounds like fun to me. Could we get an option at the hospital to only heal back to 20, 40, or 60%, our choice so I don't have to bother jumping of a building to use my new BUFF??? OH yeah wait nevermind, with ED I will always be at about 40% health so Okie I am good.
Looks like I will need to buy an Xbox in order to play a real superhero game.
Major DarkStar
My only concern, are the one type slottted passives. But, this small change for SR is a good addition
lady panzer
global id @Panzer
[ QUOTE ]
As a scrapper I tend to go for bosses, as reflexes I tend to do well against them since I don't get hit... but against bosses and lts of +2 or +3 I'm going down in maybe 3 or 4 hits tops... I dont' think a "minor amount of resistance" that kicks in at 40% hps is going to keep them from dropping me often enough for it to matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
But isnt the problem there that you are going into situations which is supposed to be ultra risky whih a very high chance of you face planting! Quite correctly no change should affect that.
Thank you!
I really like playing SR and while I dont think the set is broken at all I definetly feel I cant keep up with a regen or invul scrapper. Hopefully this will balance it a bit more, but I wonder if it will be enough? I also think that perhaps it shouldnt be based on our health, becuase, well I just dont see the logic of that. Thanks for doing something about SR though!
Sorry but I just do not see them making this worthwhile for us. Yes this might have worked post issue 3 when we had perma-elude. But now we dont even have semi-perma elude with ED coming. With things this ways All I can do is scrap for 3 minutes take a break till Elude comes back up. If there is any SR scrapper that thinks they will be successful without Elude once ED hits if they dont change it, let me know I want to see you in action because even with this change we are way past dead. This wont stop the one shotting and depending on Elude as a crutch. We have the only secondary whose final power is essential to our survival at this point. I would rather see the recharge time brought down on these final powers, and the length of them extended to 5 minutes just so we can take on the avs. The main drawback to this is that Regen scrappers can not last 5 minutes under the effects of MoG so they need something different. Practically all my deaths post 38 have been AV related because they 1 shot me the very second Elude drops. There are very few avs that can be killed in 3 minutes unless you have alot of damage resistance debuffs thrown on them. Since the fights will be drawn out to be about 1/3 longer we need some adjustments for that. Scrappers that are below 38 will suffer the most with this change. I really do not know what can be done at this point to help them. What we need is something that we can do that the other sets dont have and can not get. Maybe change the defense debuff resistance we got back to always be on at 100%, defense is the only damage mitigation we have. The other choice is make quickness really worth it. Increase the run speed buff to where when enhanced it is like super speed but only when SO's are in it, or make us have 100% immunity to slow effects and -recharge effects, my last suggestion is make it where we are the only ones that can dodge auto hit powers. If any of this is overpowered then please explain because after ED hits even if they gave us back perma-elude we would still be the underdog of the scrapper secondaries.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Hmmm...people used to complain because the line between an Invul Tanker and an Invul Scrapper was pretty blurred....will this now blur the line between SR and Invul Scrappers? Invul has resists and defense (which seems to be Invul's best bet these days) while SR will now have defense and resists. For someone who doesn't like "cookie cutter" builds, it sure seems as though he's pushing things into that category. Hopefully there's gonna be something really good that'll still set SR and Invul apart.
[ QUOTE ]
All I got out of that was blah blah blah we're still going to kick your teeth in with the ED nerf blah blah blah blah I'm a HUGE liar blah blah blah blah pass the Cheetos blah blah blah blah
[/ QUOTE ]
Let me try more slowly.
This has nothing to do with the ED nerf.
Look I don't like the ED nerf either but this isn't an attempt to "fix" that. This is unrelated.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
[ QUOTE ]
I just figured out the reason why SR get's this buff but not Ice Armor.
It's because of SR being one of the powersets in CoV but Ice is not.
I bet a lot of Stalkers have complained (and rightly so) that they are dying to much but since there are no Ice Armor in CoV no one can complain about that set...
I thought the devs had a better overview then this but with the recent changes it's pretty obvious they dont.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or maybe Statesman has an entirely different dialogue going on with the Ice tankers where he just doubled the resistance buff to the slow field after people pointed out the the previous less-slow-more-resistance change was actually a nerf?
Maybe the devs wants the power sets to feel different?
It seems to me that the devs are changing Ice Armor and they are watching that as well. Did they do enough? Probably not, but they have addressed concerns and posted about within 30 days.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Mr Emmert,
Scrappers are Boss/Monster/AV killers right? All those things have pretty high accuracies, especially now that our slottable def is restricted. Since an SR scrapper can never guarantee that the next two shots arent going to hit him (and since ED makes it much more likely they will than before) no reasonable SR scrapper is going to hang around at the 20% health point. Unless the buff is pretty darn good most of us would satrt looking for cover.
I really don't have an alternative suggestion ... sorry. I do know I think
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
I dont get it . How resisting blows is related to Super Reflexes ? While that solution could make the powerset better , i really dont see how that is making sense .
[/ QUOTE ]
Easy: dodge and get mostly out of the way, getting grazed by the bullet. Roll with the punches. Leap and make it most of the way out of the explosion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its easy if you want it to be easy. Its not so easy if you actually think about it impartially. Take a bullet. You can *imagine* "mostly dodging" a bullet, but in actuality, given the side of a bullet, the side of the target (you), and the number of different options involved in either getting, or not getting hit, it is vastly more likely that you'll either get hit, or dodge completely.
You can imagine getting hit for less. But its hard to imagine someone *just fast enough to get hit for less* that doesn't just cause the attack to miss altogether.
Having said that, the devs are treating Def and Res as pure numbers, not as conceptual entities. Their many changes to the game - including ED - clearly demonstrate that their grasp of the fundamental differences among how the different attributes in the game interact is, if not faulty, then severely different from mine. So long as thats true, its just not worth it to advocate keeping SR conceptually pure, when the devs are unwilling to protect the concept. "Just don't slot it, or slot it but get very little benefit" does not come from the voice of someone intent on protecting SR's singular concept.
[/ QUOTE ]
With all due respect, a bullet is the worse case scenario for conceptually grasping a rwtp idea. By contrast, it's hard to imagine ever completely dodging an explosion and much more likely you will just minimize the damage you take by moving farther from the blast radius.
Damage mitigation from a reflex is a given and not even debatable in a real world setting. Sometimes you may not mitigate, like when being fired on by a short pulse laser, but many more times you will, like being fired on by an extended burn laser (you move out of the beam).
Regardless of the real world realites, the game can do what ever it wants...and does. The +DEF that Ice has, makes no more conceptual sense than putting +RES in the passives.
So I agree with you that the devs treat +DEF and +RES like mechanisms not powers, at least when it came to Invunerability. Which is exactly how it should be for all sets. It's the players on these boards that seem to insist that +RES as always having to be a "resistance" type of power. Certainly the game tends to reinforce that. I'm finally glad they've gotten over their resistance (no pun intended) of using +RES to simulate reflexes.