What about powers that debuff an enemies damage out put such as Fulcrum Shift and Siphon Power? Were these types of powers touched?
This does not jibe with reports that Tar Patch and Freezing Rain have seen no change.
But to be sure I'll bring on my Dark Defender and check to how much Tar Patch is debuffing for when I get home.
I'm also troubled how when the matter was mentioned during I5 being on Test it was said that no changes had been made.
Explanation?
Under construction
Thank you very much for the response.
One thing -- right now Stormbringer's tests show that Defender's Freezing Rain (from Storm Summoning) is actually *less* effective a resistance debuff than the Controller version. I assume that's not intentional?
Thank you for finally saying it.
Have to test about the other powers though. While it was on test I5 wasn't effecting the other powers according to tests.
[ QUOTE ]
We apologize for not having this out with the rest of the patch notes.
[/ QUOTE ]
This was first reported on July 17th on the test server, and there were continual denials from the devs from then until now that there was any change, not very confidence inspiring.
took you 2 months to come foward? countless posts that i KNOW you have read/seen.
wow!
pshhhhhhhhhhhhh. get lost creeps.
I was just about to say...
Defenders weren't crazy. Devs were. Shocker.
</sarcasm>
Kung Ru - 50++ MA/Regen Scrapper
Kalleesta - 50 Necro/Dark MM
Hidden Justice - 44 Kin/Psy Defender
Altaholic
So why the Stealth Nerf? Seriously, you keep saying that this stuff isn't intentional but it happens far too often. Furthermore, if it was part of the balancing and it was pointed out at length on these boards, I can't see why this didn't hit the patch notes.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
CuppaJo,
Did they happen to mention whether Defense debuffs were also reduced seeing as how there a about 5 times as many Defense debuffs in the game as Resistance debuffs, and that the Defense based sets were reduced just as much as the Resistance based sets?
Also, there have been statements made by the player-base testers that Resistance debuffs don't actually debuff Resistance but rather raise the amount of incoming damage. Would you please also ask if Defense debuffs can be changed to equate to Resistance debuffs?
Thanks much
Be well, people of CoH.
Tar patch with my dark defender using dark blast with only an accuracy enhancement:
Stunner Freak +0
33.08
43
Cuirasseur +2
26.46
32.81
Jaeger +1
29.77
37.81
That looks like 30% with numbers scaling down with level difference. Unless my math is borked.
So ... it looks like 30% is what the devs want the baseline to be.
Tar Patch did 30% BEFORE I5. So it has not been reduced despite the openning commeng in this thread.
How can I put this nicely. . .
. . .the developers are wrong again.
Under construction
I presume the apology to Erratic -he was effectively called a liar when he reported the change to Enervating Field- is forthcoming? Apologies if that already happened and I missed it, but it's one of those things that really bugged me.
I further presume this is a step towards finally bringing Defender Secondary damage in Balance -65% of Blaster damage plus ~115% of Blaster End cost = 55% efficiency for a Secondary vs. a Primary is unheard of anywhere else in the game- with the rest of ATs?
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
I have a suspecion that Cuppa-Jo got it all wrong. I have note seen a decrease with my Tarpatch (except for the recharge nerf) but I have seen a decrease in Darkest Night.
My guess is that def debuff powers are the ones who been stealth nerfed...
And what are the chances we'll get an actual 2nd update on this that is more explicit, and factually correct?
Such as:
"We reduced the effectiveness of Enervating Field only. Rads can just take it on the chin, or roll a Dark"
Just tested.<ul type="square">Even-con Button Man Gunner:
Dark Blast does 51.64 damage
Drop Tar Patch on even-con Button Man Gunner:
Dark Blast does 67.14 damage[/list]Was then able to drop another Tar Patch, keeping a perma-double Tar Patch going, meaning the recharge rate is still the same. Tests were repeated throughout Independence Port with the same results.
Barring an imperceptible nerf to Tar Patch's -spd, there was no nerf, stealth or otherwise.
Again, whoever's telling all this to Cuppa is LYING. I would very much appreciate it if they could get their story straight.
Methinks there's something less sinister happening, along the lines of miscommunication.
With sonic, the devs said OK, sonic should be the king of resistance debuffs, so they get two. No one else's debuff should be stronger, so set them all at 30%, the value we have for sonic. Perhaps the devs figured that, since EF was at 37.5 (?), all the other debuffs were ... and didn't bother to check the actual values since, well, there was no need to.
The inexcusable part, however, is that the dev team did not treat the rad community particularly well -- even after you guys offered proof of the change.
Edit -- well, maybe not the kings of it since tar patch still stacks, although it seems less long. I'm not sure, however, since I didn't test the stacking.
[ QUOTE ]
CuppaJo,
Did they happen to mention whether Defense debuffs were also reduced seeing as how there a about 5 times as many Defense debuffs in the game as Resistance debuffs, and that the Defense based sets were reduced just as much as the Resistance based sets?
Also, there have been statements made by the player-base testers that Resistance debuffs don't actually debuff Resistance but rather raise the amount of incoming damage. Would you please also ask if Defense debuffs can be changed to equate to Resistance debuffs?
Thanks much
[/ QUOTE ]
One would think that throwing a resistance debuff on a target that had no resistances would put that resistance into negative numbers, making them take more damage. Could that be what you're seeing?
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
[ QUOTE ]
I have a suspecion that Cuppa-Jo got it all wrong. I have note seen a decrease with my Tarpatch (except for the recharge nerf) but I have seen a decrease in Darkest Night.
My guess is that def debuff powers are the ones who been stealth nerfed...
[/ QUOTE ]
FYI, it wouldn't be CuppaJo who got it wrong. (And it does appear to be wrong so far.) She's merely carrying a message from the Development team.
[ QUOTE ]
New note:
All powers that debuff Resistance have less effect than they did before Issue 5. This includes all versions of Enervating Field, Freezing Rain, and Tar Patch.
Dev. Note:
In the Global Defense Decrease, all Controller and Defender powers that modify Resistance were decreased in effect. This global change altered debuffs as well as buffs. While this part of the change was not explained before, it was intentional and it was taken into account during balance testing of Issue 5. With the defensive buffs lowered in effectiveness, the debuffs would have been too strong in comparison if left unchanged, making power sets with debuffs too powerful compared to others.
We apologize for not having this out with the rest of the patch notes.
[/ QUOTE ]
Gee thanks.. I'll take another respec please as I kep this based on the fact it did not change!
Then why weren't accuracy debuffs similarly decreased to compensate for the lower defense values globally? Something does not sound right here.
A lot doesn't sound right.
Tar Patch still works at 30%.
I haven't noticed a Darkest Night nerf, WinterAncient also did some testing with it after I5 and found numbers showing it wasn't.
At the moment, it seems the only thing that's been nerfed is Enervating Field.
wasn't the # of targets enough of a reduction of the power of debuffs?
Accuracy debuffs might have been changed -- some dark defenders are reporting that darkest nightf seems weaker. I'm not sure, that kind of testing is completely, entirely beyond my ability.
[ QUOTE ]
Accuracy debuffs might have been changed -- some dark defenders are reporting that darkest nightf seems weaker. I'm not sure, that kind of testing is completely, entirely beyond my ability.
[/ QUOTE ]
Other Dark Miasma Defenders did pretty extensive testing and found no change.
**edited yet again because they still were not happy with it - I will change the patch note page in the morning**
The Controller and Defender versions of Enervating Field debuff Resistance less than they did before Issue 5.
Dev Note:
This power has always been very strong and easy to use, despite its high endurance cost. With the overall decrease in the power of defensive buffs, this power had to be weakened or Radiation would be too strong compared to other Defender primaries and Controller secondaries.