It is not a stealth nerf to say you're going to reduce something, put it on Test at a given value, and go live with a different value. The fact that the power was being reduced was stated up front.
A stealth nerf is not saying anything about the power being changed and reducing it anyway.
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You attempted to assert priority by arguing which stealth nerfing happened first. Clearly EF did. Feel free to cast about for some way to make Regen the poster boy for stealth nerfs if you will, but that misses the point entirely.
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Well you seem to want to argue Rad is the poster boy. Its unimportant in the end.
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But Debuffs to Resist didn't, only EF did. Do you understand that?
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I do understand that. I'm saying maybe they all should and that all defensive debuffs also.
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You attempted to assert priority by arguing which stealth nerfing happened first. Clearly EF did. Feel free to cast about for some way to make Regen the poster boy for stealth nerfs if you will, but that misses the point entirely.
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Well you seem to want to argue Rad is the poster boy. Its unimportant in the end.
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I did no such thing. You hoped into this thread, dealing with Enervating Field, and brought up Regen. The person off base here is you.
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But Debuffs to Resist didn't, only EF did. Do you understand that?
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I do understand that. I'm saying maybe they all should and that all defensive debuffs also.
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Fair enough.
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I hadn't noticed a big difference in Enervating Field.
What I DID notice was a big difference with Lingering Radiation, which I don't understand being hit. It got hit with the Controller nerf of half duration, double recharge rate. Why did that happen?! 
I can barely grasp why EM Pulse might have been hit with it, although I haven't really checked on that.
I can't even keep mobs reasonably slowed! And that's the only means I've got to keep them together for my debuffs when I'm soloing! 
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What I DID notice was a big difference with Lingering Radiation, which I don't understand being hit. It got hit with the Controller nerf of half duration, double recharge rate. Why did that happen?! I can barely grasp why EM Pulse might have been hit with it, although I haven't really checked on that.
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Controller Slow powers, such as Shiver, where hit too.
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The decrease is fairly minor. For defenders, it's really a 5% reduction in damage output.
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I'm not sure where you got 5% from. At the very least, this is a 25% reduction in the power (from 37.5 to 30). And the truth is that -res effects work on your total (with buffs and SOs) damage, not base damage. This nerf amounts to almost taking 1 damage SO out of everyone one of your powers.
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The principle of the thing is that a dev said that EF was not reduced, and those saying it was were mistaken or lying. Seeing this patch note now after the comment that was posted when this was first brought up is a bit disturbing.
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I agree with you that in principle this nerf was disturbing. But I would go even farther to say that in practice it is even more disturbing. I mean forgetting that they called us liars and all that, I just doesn't make sense in the game. Even after their 3rd spin doctoring of the response, the logic still doesn't add up.
Defense was lowered so you have to nerf damage output, huh? Anchor based toggle debuffs are too "easy to use", wha? And if you apply this logic to the game uniformly, powers like DN, FR, and TP should have been affected as well, but they weren't. Why does this special brand of resoning apply only to EF?
This change is crap. It is nerfing for the sake of nerfing with no justification. My only guess is that some AT in CoV was getting this power to stack with other -Res effects in some way, and thus it needed to be nerfed. Though I doubt you'd ever get the devs to admit they are nerfing CoH because of CoV.
EF should never been a toggle in the first place, Radiation Infection and Enervating Field should have been activated powers similar to lingering radiation, but have great accuracy...
These aren't the nerfs you're looking for.
Move along.
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After using EF for 50 levels on my controller, I'm pretty sure even this modest decrease in power is quite workable inside the Rad set.
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The decrease is fairly minor. For defenders, it's really a 5% reduction in damage output.
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100% - 0.3/0.375 = 20%
I'd say that's a bit more than 5%.
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While I don't much like the reduction to Enervating field at least it's recharge time didn't get doubled to the point that the power is often not available when you are ready to use it. It's getting really old twiddling my thumbs before engaging a new group because my powers aren't rechaged yet.
Nogala
Look on the bright side-any time in the future that the devs deny making a change that you have observed, you simply answer "Enervating Field".
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While I don't much like the reduction to Enervating field at least it's recharge time didn't get doubled to the point that the power is often not available when you are ready to use it. It's getting really old twiddling my thumbs before engaging a new group because my powers aren't rechaged yet.
Nogala
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I suggest you stay away from the entire Trick Arrow set then - perhaps TA is the way the Devs want Defenders to play. I can just see it now. Empath's heals recharging once every minute because "heals were never intended to be as strong as they are".
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While I don't much like the reduction to Enervating field at least it's recharge time didn't get doubled to the point that the power is often not available when you are ready to use it. It's getting really old twiddling my thumbs before engaging a new group because my powers aren't rechaged yet.
Nogala
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Having a Dark and a Rad Tar patch is way better. It's a slow as well as a -res. It' does not cost as much in that it's not a toggle and there is no anchor to be killed. A few Recharges and you can stack it or at least have it available for every battle.
To get the same effects that Tar Patch provides you would have to slot Lingering Radiation and Enervating Field significantly for recharges and endurance reductions. To me there is no question which one is the better power. I realize LR has some other components but for PVE itÂ’s minimum.
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or Radiation would be too strong compared to other Defender primaries and Controller secondaries.
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Which is funny, since Empathy is still proven to be immune to the global defense reduction, and can with one power still outperform the entire force field primary on small teams. Why is it that with just five slots an empath can provide +def above and beyond a force fielder using fortitude for 2 or 3 friends, and offer +acc and +dam to boot?
Have the developers ever explained why some powers need to be balanced like EF but some powers like Fortitude are immune to Issue 5? It'd be much easier to buy this silliness if the "Global" changes were truly Global, and not bending over backwards to make the holders of certain sets feel 'wanted'.
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No Kali, he's amazingly wrong, and what you do has no bearing on what CAN be done.
Drop Tar Patch, gather mobs, apply control, stack Tar Patch, go to town.
Sorry, its faster to kill that way than doing other things.
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No it's not. I primarily play on teams, and damage on teams is already sufficiently high (thanks to blasters and scrappers) that stuff will die faster than I can lay a second tar patch, or if it takes long enough for tar patch to recharge, the second patch is still pointless.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Even after their 3rd spin doctoring of the response, the logic still doesn't add up.
Defense was lowered so you have to nerf damage output, huh?
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Actually after my post making pretty much the same point, it dawned on me as to the actual reason they are relating resistance debuff powers (or rather EF in particular) to the defensive changes: PvP.
Since they reduced resistance and defence powers, EF became automatically stronger when used against people with those reduced defensive powers. My guess is that someone has decided that no power should debuff an opponent's resistance by more than 30%. Not sure why, since other powers can stack with themselves to enhance -res and others can just stack with other powers.
Still - we're never going to have them admit this PvE change is due to PvP are we?
As has been proven time and again, they can make PvP changes independent of PvE.
Please stop this "Waah waah pee vee pee is ruining mai game!111!!!!!fordfocus" rhetoric.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
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As has been proven time and again, they can make PvP changes independent of PvE.
Please stop this "Waah waah pee vee pee is ruining mai game!111!!!!!fordfocus" rhetoric.
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Ford Focus?
I'm going to take the religion standpoint on this:
The bible tells you god exists, therefore he must.
The devs tell you that no PvE changes will occur based on PvP, so that must also be true.
/atheist
//thinks people do lie
///hates sheep
Be well, people of CoH.
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The decrease is fairly minor. For defenders, it's really a 5% reduction in damage output.
The principle of the thing is that a dev said that EF was not reduced, and those saying it was were mistaken or lying. Seeing this patch note now after the comment that was posted when this was first brought up is a bit disturbing.
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No, 37.5% down to 30% isn't minor. Not only is it lots more than a 5% change, it's a huge time change. At 37.5% I could just kill groups of orange cons in 1 cycle of Irradiate+NBomb. Now it will take an extra cast of Irradiate, which will significantly increase amount of time it takes to kill.
I dont care about the principle, I care about results.
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As has been proven time and again, they can make PvP changes independent of PvE.
Please stop this "Waah waah pee vee pee is ruining mai game!111!!!!!fordfocus" rhetoric.
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Ermmm... I didn't say it was - in fact I mentioned earlier that I don't find the change that bad (not that I play rad much myself, I team with a lot of them though). I just wish the devs would be honest as to their reasoning behind the change, because the one they are claiming at the moment simply doesn't make sense - resist debuffs are in no way equivalent to defensive powers, in PvE at least.
Why would they change the resist debuff of Enervating Field (which is in essence a damage buff) but not change Tar Patch, Freezing Rain, Fulcrum Shift or a multitude of other damage buffing powers?
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The decrease is fairly minor. For defenders, it's really a 5% reduction in damage output.
The principle of the thing is that a dev said that EF was not reduced, and those saying it was were mistaken or lying. Seeing this patch note now after the comment that was posted when this was first brought up is a bit disturbing.
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No, 37.5% down to 30% isn't minor. Not only is it lots more than a 5% change, it's a huge time change. At 37.5% I could just kill groups of orange cons in 1 cycle of Irradiate+NBomb. Now it will take an extra cast of Irradiate, which will significantly increase amount of time it takes to kill.
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Then I guess the devs just showed us what they consider acceptable solo targets.
I'm not sure why you challenge the percentage change? Say you do 100 points of damage. Old EF let you do 137.5. New EF lets you do 130. 137.5/130~1.05.
As far as missed patch notes go, wasnt hasten nerfed but yet I cant find anything in patch notes that says anything about hasten. Seams like it is a longer recharge than before I5 and does'nt auto fire when you are in combat like it should. Just an observation.
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I'm not sure why you challenge the percentage change? Say you do 100 points of damage. Old EF let you do 137.5. New EF lets you do 130. 137.5/130~1.05.
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Now lets take an example that might actually occur in reality. Lets assume your base damage is 100 and you have 5 damage SOs, AM running, and you hit Aim. 100*(1+(.33*5)+.25+.66)=356. Remember that -res works on your total damage, not your base damage.
356*1.375=489.5
356*1.3=462.8
Thats a drop of 26.7 points of damage. That is 26.7% of your base damage gone. If you are at the damage cap it's 30% of your base damage gone. Thats like hacking 1 damage SO off of every one of your powers. Don't try to pawn this off as some minor change.
I think this does boil down to yet another PvP nerf that affects PvE. But give me a break, EF is a toggle. Dropping a toggle on a defender in PvP is as easy as taking candy from a baby. Defenders have zilch for status protection. The fact that EF is a toggle balances out the fact it has a higher effect.
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As has been proven time and again, they can make PvP changes independent of PvE.
Please stop this "Waah waah pee vee pee is ruining mai game!111!!!!!fordfocus" rhetoric.
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Ford Focus?
I'm going to take the religion standpoint on this:
The bible tells you god exists, therefore he must.
The devs tell you that no PvE changes will occur based on PvP, so that must also be true.
/atheist
//thinks people do lie
///hates sheep
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Except certain powers actually do work differently in PvP then they do in PvE.
If they were nerfing it for just PvP, they would have.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
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You attempted to assert priority by arguing which stealth nerfing happened first. Clearly EF did. Feel free to cast about for some way to make Regen the poster boy for stealth nerfs if you will, but that misses the point entirely.
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FYI regen was stealth nerfed this issue too, Instant Healing's recharge and duration are different from any incarnation that was on test.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue