(Opens a bag of Pop Corn)
I could chime in but my grammer comments would probably send you into paroxyms of hissy fits. The spelling would leave you with permanent migraine headaches so I will spare you.
In any case, I look forward to this debate.
(Someone points out that they will be going into the debate over PMs so as not to de-rail the thread)
Oh, never mind.
(Stuffs Pop Corn in pants)
FRICKIN BUTTERED POPCORN GAHHHH! IT BURNS!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Having to re-edit because the previous version didn't spin things the way the devs want it.
[/ QUOTE ]
More like having to re-edit because the people she has to work with think the players are stupid. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if she posted #2 without checking back with Cryptic. The players seem to generally have a better grasp of the game than the Devs after all.
[/ QUOTE ]
<sarcasm mode ON>
No no no ... you don't understand .... players have *absolutely* no grasp of how the devs intend the game to be played ...
<sarcasm mode OFF>
See The MUD Wimping Guide for details.
[ QUOTE ]
Dev Note:
This power has always been very strong and easy to use, despite its high endurance cost. With the overall decrease in the power of defensive buffs, this power had to be weakened or Radiation would be too strong compared to other Defender primaries and Controller secondaries.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, like Rads were way better than Dark with -RES in TP before. Why bother with Rad at all when you get the same thing in Dark, get more defense in Dark, and can stack TP every 22.5s?
At least my Rad is already 50 and I dont have to bother with it...
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, like Rads were way better than Dark with -RES in TP before. Why bother with Rad at all when you get the same thing in Dark, get more defense in Dark, and can stack TP every 22.5s?
At least my Rad is already 50 and I dont have to bother with it...
[/ QUOTE ]
The Def DeBuff? Oh wait, you can get that by picking the /Rad Secondary.
Crowd Control? Oh wait, you get Fearsome Stare at 12, which is only a Fear but without 'Nuke' drawbacks and can be strung along to keep the enemies feared infinitely.
Fallout!
But then again, keep in mind that people who play Defenders are romantic idealists anyways. Anybody with some sense would be playing a Controller instead, at the very latest post I5. So internal numerical arguments really don't matter.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
So, what are the NUMBERS on the -RES powers now?
And the dmg debuff if any?
30% -Res according to Erratic IIRC. -Dam should correspond to that, either directly or relatively.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
A message to devs, not Cuppa (just thought I'd mention):
So rad/rad defenders, obviously one of the best balanced ATs so far, has taken at least 2 major hits from the recent nerf-fest: first Lingering Radiation takes about 3-4 times as long to recharge (and I'm not yet sure if the slow effect time has been reduced too, so far I'd say yes), making it a "omg, I better save this for bosses" power rather than being a life saver for defenders. And now EF, another crucial power for the soloing defender, gets nerfed? I haven't even bothering checking yet if the hold times of Choking Cloud, EMPulse, Cosmic Burst and Atomic Blast have been reduced, too. I only know that these 2 recent changes were caused by decisions not associated with the defender AT or the rad powersets!
So when the defenders, after being the happiest and best balanced AT since beta, will finally cry out after being slowly debalanced, what will you do? What stupid inherent power will you come up with to supposedly make up for it again? Can't you just save us all the trouble and forget about unnecessary nerfs?
Poison � Sabbath
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Given the massive drawbacks of EF, it should be stronger than TP or FR in effect.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never thought I'd see the day when a defender begins to believe that their defender powers should somehow be better than the next defender powers.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Elvis has left the building.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh please, that is NOT what I said. I said it should be stronger "in effect". That means the drawbacks in end usage and application of the power are such that the actual effects (ie the -res debuff) should be more potent. Being weaker is some ways, it should be stronger in other ways. You know, that little thing called balance?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, it has a -damage component, which Freezing Rain and Tar Patch lack. I think that makes it more powerful.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
[ QUOTE ]
So when the defenders, after being the happiest and best balanced AT since beta, will finally cry out after being slowly debalanced, what will you do? What stupid inherent power will you come up with to supposedly make up for it again? Can't you just save us all the trouble and forget about unnecessary nerfs?
[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't that obvious? Defenders' inherent power will be a glowing pink neon sign that hovers over their heards and perpetually spells out the words 'I R H34L0R'.
Guess Defenders were never intended to DeBuff.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
[ QUOTE ]
After using EF for 50 levels on my controller, I'm pretty sure even this modest decrease in power is quite workable inside the Rad set.
[/ QUOTE ]
The decrease is fairly minor. For defenders, it's really a 5% reduction in damage output.
The principle of the thing is that a dev said that EF was not reduced, and those saying it was were mistaken or lying. Seeing this patch note now after the comment that was posted when this was first brought up is a bit disturbing.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Get a grip people. Rad is still very powerful, with almost every power being a keeper. Just look at how people have been arguing - defenders can't have more damage because of radiation, defenders control too well because of darkness and radiation, immobilize is sufficent control because of radiation debuffs, etc.
Tar Pit WAS reduced in power - the recharge was just about doubled. I don't know about freezing Rain, but that power has enough drawbacks to deserve being the premier debuff in the game.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stacking Tar patch is relatively a myth outside of AV encounters/Herding...
[/ QUOTE ]
[censored]. I have a Dark Defender and it stacks very well.
[/ QUOTE ]
He's not saying it doesn't stack. He's saying there's no real point to stacking it outside those situations.
And, honestly, he's right. I only really bother to stack it against AVs and monsters, or drop extras when the fight's moved off the original.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Given the massive drawbacks of EF, it should be stronger than TP or FR in effect.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never thought I'd see the day when a defender begins to believe that their defender powers should somehow be better than the next defender powers.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Elvis has left the building.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh please, that is NOT what I said. I said it should be stronger "in effect". That means the drawbacks in end usage and application of the power are such that the actual effects (ie the -res debuff) should be more potent. Being weaker is some ways, it should be stronger in other ways. You know, that little thing called balance?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, it has a -damage component, which Freezing Rain and Tar Patch lack. I think that makes it more powerful.
[/ QUOTE ]
That depends really. Tar Patch is a slow, and does -Jump -Fly, effectively keeping targets in the area of the debuff. EF lacks that. Freezing Rain does Slow and Knockdown, as well as defense debuff, which contribute to keeping people in the area of the debuff, and making those targets easier to hit. The kicker though, is the ability to stack both powers. With that, I think I consider Tar Patch and FR better powers at this point, especially Tar Patch.
It all depends on what aspects of a power are importan to the individual player though.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Given the massive drawbacks of EF, it should be stronger than TP or FR in effect.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never thought I'd see the day when a defender begins to believe that their defender powers should somehow be better than the next defender powers.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Elvis has left the building.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh please, that is NOT what I said. I said it should be stronger "in effect". That means the drawbacks in end usage and application of the power are such that the actual effects (ie the -res debuff) should be more potent. Being weaker is some ways, it should be stronger in other ways. You know, that little thing called balance?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, it has a -damage component, which Freezing Rain and Tar Patch lack. I think that makes it more powerful.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dark gets its -Dam in Darkest Night.
Storm has control properties (such as Hurricane which both moves mobs and debuffs their attack range) that Rad doesn't get.
Compare sets to sets and Rad got screwed.
Under construction
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stacking Tar patch is relatively a myth outside of AV encounters/Herding...
[/ QUOTE ]
[censored]. I have a Dark Defender and it stacks very well.
[/ QUOTE ]
He's not saying it doesn't stack. He's saying there's no real point to stacking it outside those situations.
And, honestly, he's right. I only really bother to stack it against AVs and monsters, or drop extras when the fight's moved off the original.
[/ QUOTE ]
No Kali, he's amazingly wrong, and what you do has no bearing on what CAN be done.
Drop Tar Patch, gather mobs, apply control, stack Tar Patch, go to town.
Sorry, its faster to kill that way than doing other things.
Under construction
[ QUOTE ]
Tar Pit WAS reduced in power - the recharge was just about doubled. I don't know about freezing Rain, but that power has enough drawbacks to deserve being the premier debuff in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uhh... well, first off, you clearly don't play a Dark Miasma Defender because then you'd know A) the power is Tar Patch and B) it was absolutely unchanged (barring new global AoE limits).
What I find more disturbing is you didn't bother to read through this very thread, where a few of us ran tests, found there was no change at all, and said as much. Please try to follow the discussion before attempting to point out flaws in other peoples' statements. 
First of all this was a Stealth Nerf and you guys got caught. You snuck it through the last time when EF provided 43% and was dropped to 37%.
Stealth nerfing is something you said you would not do but now you have. Any explanation of missed patch notes will not be believed by me and many others since we have brought this issue up over 2 months ago.
As far as I'm concern you have finally lost my trust.
[ QUOTE ]
The Controller and Defender versions of Enervating Field debuff Resistance less than they did before Issue 5.
Dev Note:
This power has always been very strong and easy to use, despite its high endurance cost. With the overall decrease in the power of defensive buffs, this power had to be weakened or Radiation would be too strong compared to other Defender primaries and Controller secondaries.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please note the highlighted items. As I'm sure you know, Enervating Field has both an offensive buff (The Resistance debuff) and a defensive buff (The Damage debuff) component.
So because defensive powers were reduced, you are reducing the effectiveness of the offensive component of Enervating Field?! Surely reducing the defensive component, i.e. the Damage Debuff, would have been more appropriate given the dev reasoning?
Anyway - I don't think the reduction in the debuff actually affects the effectiveness of rad that severely anyway; it's the principal of this whole debacle that has disappointed me. The Dev's pretty much said that players were lying when they revealed this previously unannounced change! Just wish the Dev's could be honest about it really - if they were wanting to bring all the -Resistance powers into line with each other at 30% then just say so!
Oh and stop hiding behind poor Cuppa - she doesn't deserve to have to clear up after your mistakes.
Anyway that's just my 2 inf...
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about freezing Rain, but that power has enough drawbacks to deserve being the premier debuff in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you don't know anything about the power, how can you say anything about it?
Under construction
First let me welcome you to the world of regen. We got this type of surprise after I3 when they halved Int without saying boo. Well for you its just a short visit to the green world of regen its not exactly like your the most dev ignored group there is. But you are green...I wonder if they actually hate green...anyway to the thing I came here for.
[ QUOTE ]
Please note the highlighted items. As I'm sure you know, Enervating Field has both an offensive buff (The Resistance debuff) and a defensive buff (The Damage debuff) component.
So because defensive powers were reduced, you are reducing the effectiveness of the offensive component of Enervating Field?! Surely reducing the defensive component, i.e. the Damage Debuff, would have been more appropriate given the dev reasoning?
[/ QUOTE ]
Many AT-wise resistances also took a fall. And a hard one at that. Look at Inv. Resist Elements dropped from 20 to 7.5 base, Unyielding dropped from 20 to all -psi to 5 to S/L and 10 to the rest -psi, Resist Energies dropped from 20 to 7.5, and even TI dropped from 32.5 to 30 and RPD dropped also. All except TI by way more then 5. Most where halved or worse (tanker version numbers, scrappers took the same hit but different numbers). Tough also took a hit dropping a resist any AT could pick up. So just to back Cuppa a bit resistances did drop for many and drop hard. For PvP her line might make sense balance-wise.
Not that I agree with stealth nerfing or any of that. I find it very low. Just for the record Defense Options is a Rad/Ene defender and I have another Rad/Rad I enjoy so it effects me and I'm not happy about the change. Just saying with defensive powers dropped maybe there is cause to drop the power of some debuffs.
First let me point out that the first stealth nerfing of Enervating Field took place in I2. Last I looked I2 came BEFORE I3.
As for the rest of your comment, Darkest Night debuffs damage, it wasn't touched. Tar Patch debuffs resistance, it wasn't touched. Enervating Field, which does both those things was touched. If it makes sense to nerf EF, then it make sense to nerf Darkest Night and Tar Patch.
Under construction
[ QUOTE ]
Bringing all the mobs there won't work since you can only debuff 16 of them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not so sure on Tar Patch. Drop powers seem not to have a restriction on number of targets. Tested this on Ice Slick. My gues sis that drops like Blizzard, Ice Slick, Tar Patch etc don't have a maximum number of targets.
As for replies to my comment on Tar Pit; if all you can badger on is the name I use... Anyway, pretty sure it used to have a shorter recharge, but that might have been long ago. Havn't played Dark Miasma in a while.
[ QUOTE ]
First let me point out that the first stealth nerfing of Enervating Field took place in I2. Last I looked I2 came BEFORE I3.
[/ QUOTE ]
Was it halved? Combine this nerf and I2's was it halved? If not regen still leads. Int dropped from 400 to 200 overnight with no word of the change in any patch notes.
[ QUOTE ]
As for the rest of your comment, Darkest Night debuffs damage, it wasn't touched. Tar Patch debuffs resistance, it wasn't touched. Enervating Field, which does both those things was touched. If it makes sense to nerf EF, then it make sense to nerf Darkest Night and Tar Patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't actually argueing that the EF nerf was good just saying that resists took a hard hit and maybe debuffs to resist should also. Heck with regen getting nerf yet again I'd argue for -regen to get slaughtered.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First let me point out that the first stealth nerfing of Enervating Field took place in I2. Last I looked I2 came BEFORE I3.
[/ QUOTE ]
Was it halved? Combine this nerf and I2's was it halved? If not regen still leads. Int dropped from 400 to 200 overnight with no word of the change in any patch notes.
[/ QUOTE ]
You attempted to assert priority by arguing which stealth nerfing happened first. Clearly EF did. Feel free to cast about for some way to make Regen the poster boy for stealth nerfs if you will, but that misses the point entirely.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for the rest of your comment, Darkest Night debuffs damage, it wasn't touched. Tar Patch debuffs resistance, it wasn't touched. Enervating Field, which does both those things was touched. If it makes sense to nerf EF, then it make sense to nerf Darkest Night and Tar Patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't actually argueing that the EF nerf was good just saying that resists took a hard hit and maybe debuffs to resist should also. Heck with regen getting nerf yet again I'd argue for -regen to get slaughtered.
[/ QUOTE ]
But Debuffs to Resist didn't, only EF did. Do you understand that?
Under construction
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Granny Gertrudes Grammar mantra...."I can Affect the Effect."
[/ QUOTE ]
I love you.
[/ QUOTE ]
He was also wrong, "in effect" is correct, if you want to get into it, we cant take it to PM.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please PM me your grammar evidence.....<cracks knuckles with anticipation>.
Oh, and make VERY SURE you look back at how I used contextual phrasing in my post.