I just wanted to add that you guys have handled this in a way that once more proves Cryptic's class. A lot of companies would just say "Nope, we can't do it" and left it at that. That you guys go to such effort to keep us informed just shows why Cryptic has fanboys like me running around still preaching The Way Of The One True Game.
Thanks for the update. My question is in the way character information is stored. Are the devs then taking a look at reworking how this data is stored. You mentioned "what seemed like a simple query.." and to the "know enough to get you in trouble crowd" it would seem you should have a "flag" set in the character data that said the TF has been done and a "flag" set in the data that said the character does or does not have X badge. Query on the flag about the TF being done, flip flag on the badge to "on".
It must not be that easy, but I'm sure that the Devs now realize that is probably should be. Once again, I'm not a programmer in any league close to game designers, (and I'm amazed with COH and love he game) however it seems on the surface that there must be a better way to code character data if you can't tell who has completed a TF in an easy way.
Scatterpack Rad/Rad
~ Earthguard ~
Thanks again, Positron, for taking the time to clarify this. It speaks well of Cryptic that the programmers can take time out of their busy day to answer these sorts of questions.
Vulpy
Quote:
|
Newton: I observed Mercury's perihelion moving 43 arc-seconds per century more than it should. Is this WAI? --Einstein |
As someone who has been critical of the Devs lately I have to say KUDOS to Positron for being so on top of this situation.
THIS is the sort of communication that the players were hoping for in regards to some of the other issues.
Having it explained to us helps a lot and I know that *I* for one am satisfied with the explanation and can live with re-doing the TFs in light of the situation the Devs are faced with.
Thanks Positron!
On the shard TF's
Only the 1st really needs reworking. Break it down into a story arc component and then the last X missions as a TF ending in some sort of elite boss or AV.
please make sure going forward ( I believe you are doing this) that no TF is created in game without a badge.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
On the shard TF's
Only the 1st really needs reworking. Break it down into a story arc component and then the last X missions as a TF ending in some sort of elite boss or AV.
please make sure going forward ( I believe you are doing this) that no TF is created in game without a badge.
[/ QUOTE ]
This sounds like an idea. Make the 1st Shard TF like the Ernesto Hess or Katie Hannon TF's.
First you have to do important missions for the Shard Contacts (more interesting missions from Doc Boyd and so on) and give clues in form of a Story Arc summary. Then when you have finished those missions you have to meet a special contact (can stay Dr. Quaterfield) who will issue you with a TF that should be aproximately half the size (mission-wise) but would end the same way the original TF does.
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Rest assured that I am looking into this option (which I know doesn't satisfy everyone).
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Positron, thank you for your active role in this thread and for working hard (along with the other devs) to listen to what we have to say. I for one am looking forward to I5 and all of the new badges, so I can exercise patience with regards to other minor things. Keep up the good work. Fight Hard.
High Beam - 50 Blaster Energy/Ice - 1228 Badges
Munitions Mistress - 50 Mercs/Traps
Many Other 50's, Too Many Alts, All On Freedom
Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should!
Like I said in the other thread, while it really sucks that I'm not going to get a badge for the 10 hour Invincible Faathim TF, at least I understand the reasons why.
Does it suck? Yes. Yes, it does.
Do I want you spending hundreds of hours mulling over data t find a way to get me a badge that I can go earn again instead of fixing bugs or adding new content? No. No, I don't.
I can live without the badges if you can promise you'll be devoting the time to getting me some new powers, new zones, and the CoV open beta open as soon as possible.
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Just to clear some stuff up:
The fact that you did the Task Force is NOT stored on your character anywhere. There is (well, there WAS) no reason to store this, since you could do them over and over again.
Suggestions like "just datamine ME" or "just datamine the level 44+ characters" don't narrow down the database query at all. We still need to look at ALL the data for the specific bits of Task Force related goodness that says "yes, this guy did the Task Force".
As for assigning the badges to those with the souvenirs. That -might- (in the biggest sense of the word) be possible, but it will have to wait until some of the engineers get their heads up from City of Villains to take a look at this. Rest assured that I am looking into this option (which I know doesn't satisfy everyone).
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Ok i understand its not stored on the character, but wouldnt the over all goal be stored on the server records. I dont understand why it would be so hard to take a server image and then just run it through several passes for information pertaining to the central event of a tf. Minning for the record of the defeat of the AV as it was, or whatever applied. Just as the system to award Hamidon enhancments records who has done damage, so would the server record show who had a part in a defeat of a AV. So then you find a defeat it pulls the names off all those that inflicted damage or effects and you got a badge.
The reverse sk system is nice for sure positron, but it doesnt help for those of use that simply dont play the game during heavily populated times. I play commonly from 10pm-4am pacific time, so like 1am-7am eastern. the servers are not very populated and those that are on, dont even alot of times want to run a short trial like sewers or respec. Finding time and groups to run the SS tf or other 4-5 hours TFs just doesnt really happen during this time, and its really uncommon with family and kids and work to find that kinda time during the day.
This was suposed to be the casual players MMO it seems, but you put in missions that require this much time, add after the fact a reward system, and now dont seem to want to support that system. It sounds good on paper to add badges to old TFs, but honestly the only fair, make everyone happy thing would have been to leave well enough alone. New TF or trials new badges dont mess with the old ones. Otherwise i would think we play the good for many card. it keeps more people happy to datamine the badges, then does to not. You and the dev team are happy to not datamine, so the what 50 or so people working at cryptic. while thousands are pissed off about it. Wouldnt it be smart to datamine and keep the majority happy. And understandably with the new game and stuff you i think could easily say that this will happen in stages and over the course of the next 6 months probably after COVs release the issue willbe progressively resolved. I dont need the badges day 1 of issue 5, knowing i will get them in fair order as to not put undue pressure on the developers is fine, as long as i knew it was being handled.
Thank you Positron for being a role model for dev responses. These recent responses have answered several questions nicely.
I am glad you understand and appreciate that one of the concerns of not datamining the badges is that some people only suffered through the Shard TFs because they were under the impression that they were being tracked and mined for future badge releases. I was among the people that thought it was merely an issue of a backlogged art department, not that the devs hadn't implemented some tracking system to retroactively award badges easily at some later date. The explanation of the TF accolade and its demise and the reasoning behind not developing other TF badges makes sense, even if it seems inconceivable now given the prevalence of badges for all kinds of activities.
The souvenir system is still a shame. However, for those that want to read souvenirs you can go online and find some good sources, particularly Red Tomax's Awesome Site. My feeling is that it is easier to read a souvenir in a document or html file than it is to read it in game because of the game's window size limitations. It is a bit of a shame, though, since one of my heroes has 40 souvenirs and it appears the new maximum is 36 or so since the TF/Trials have been removed.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer the questions and give more thoughtful responses. You can't make everyone happy all the time.
Last night we had a four person group go through Positon's TF and it took about 7 hours to do. While I think that TF's are great fun and adds a lot to the in game content I have a few problems I'd like to bring up. I'm not sure if these are/were addressed in another area, quite simply there is far to much information out there to read and I did not see anything when I performed a search. Missing it in search could be my fault I don't know.
Anyway... In the TF we did last night we were all over 16th level so we were auto-exempted down to 16. I like that fact that we can go back and do TF's that we have outgrown utilizing the auto-exempt. However, one of our group was 50th, one was 43rd the other two below 30. Our Tank (50th) and one of our healers (43rd) died a few times and incurred tons of debt. Debt that was giving was for the death of thier real level NOT the exempted level. This is totally wrong in my opinion. If we are confined to use our abilities at an exempted level and die we should incure debt at the exempted level NOT our real level.
The second item I would like to bring up is the shere amount of time we spent on Positron's TF. We spent nearly 7 hours on one exempted TF. Granted we knew we would not get any exp for it and only be able to work off debt and gain influence but having to play 7 hours to complete one mission in my opinion a bit much. I think TF's should not run this long but again this is just my opinion.
Thank you for your time for reading this.
ShadowFire
Rhonen
erm if it toook you 7 hours as a high level exemp I'd be looking at myself not at the system.
As a high 40's I was part of a team than blitzed through this in a little over a couple of hours.
Synapse was destroyed in a similar way.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Now go back to your poorly spelt manifestos against the devs.
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No such word as spelt in the context you meant it, even it u were refering to a sub species of common wheat. Perhaps u meant spelled. Glad to have helped.
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http://dict.die.net/spelt/
Spelt \Spelt\,
imp. & p. p. of Spell. Spelled.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Spelt
A past tense and a past participle of spell
http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictiona...8form+words%29
spell (FORM WORDS)
verb {I or T} spelled or UK AND AUSTRALIAN ENGLISH ALSO spelt, spelled or UK AND AUSTRALIAN ENGLISH ALSO spelt
http://wordwebonline.com/en/SPELL
Verb: spell (spelt, also spelled) spel
Derived forms: spelt, spells, spelling
http://www.allwords.com/word-spelling.html
spell1
verb spelt, spelled, spelling
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...pelt&hl=en
There are fewer strong verbs and irregular verbs in modern English than there were in Old English. Slowly over time the number of irregular verbs is decreasing. The force of analogy tends to reduce the number of irregular verbs over time. This fact explains why irregular verbs tend to be the most commonly used ones, verbs that are more rarely heard are more likely to switch to being regular. For instance, a verb like ablate was once irregular but today ablated is the standard usage. Today irregular and standard forms often coexist, a sign that the irregular form may be on the wane. For instance, seeing spelled instead of spelt or strived instead of strove is common.
Getting the right answers, like data mining, can be more complicated than it appears.
I love being able to go back and do the TFs I missed. Thank you 
snowlarl lvl 50 ice/energy tank
Narithea lvl 50 ill/ff controller
Sabrina' lvl 41 emp/dark defender
Lyriel lvl 27 fire/rad controller
la kajira lvl 22 fire/fire tank
SnowKitten lvl 16 ice/ill controller
Hope' lvl 10 dark/regen scrapper
Atropos' lvl 10 WS
Mikaela lvl 10 PB
Ice Maiden lvl 8 fire/ice tank
I spell Spelled Spelt, it is correct English
(I am British btw)
I also spell Yogurt -> Yoghurt
Color -> Colour
And the like. Dont even get me started on the liberalisation of the 'z' instead of the 's' in the US.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
Again, I REALLY want to thank you for the open, honest, and logical explanation of why things are this way. I don't think you realize how happy it makes me that we are finally getting a reasonable, honest answer about something like this.
If you guys did this more often, I bet you'd only get half the flak you do now for all the "nerfs" and whatnot. So really, I sincerily thank you for the honesty.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm going to second this. This sort of honest, open response does wonders for player morale.
The other sorts of responses we've been getting lately do leave quite a bit to be desired.
Thanks for the honest & open answer Pos.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
Thank you Positron for the effort evolved in researching and then explaining the problem and solution. I truly wish that we could get this kind of answer for some of the other problem areas that are currently being addressed. People are feeling ignored and are very unhappy about it and if others could or would put forth the effort that you and Cuppa seem to I think things would be progressing a little more smoothly. Just the same THANKS 
@Sorak
Thanks for the posts, Positron. I remember reading something you or Statesman said about this a few weeks ago, that you hoped you'd be able to datamine but weren't sure how feasible that would be. So the result was not a big surprise.
I did Moonfire on live like a week before that was posted, so I was a little upset. I even re-copied over to the Training Room just to see if I got the badge or not (aren't I a loon?). But I understand.
So it's pretty much up to me how I deal with this: either just know I've done it and move on, or go back and do it again. It's looking like the second option will happen because I am, what someone called me in jest, a total "badge w!@#e" with that character.
But since all the TFs will have badges, do you know who has or does not have the badges? If you do, I, like others have said, would like soveineirs like we have for story arcs. I like to be able to read things over again at my own pace.
TFs take so long that people try to race from mission to mission as quickly as possible, so there's not much time for a slow reader like me to know everything that's going on. And now I learn that only the team leaders get the whole text in the first place. I do my own story arcs all the time, even though I do most of the missions several times with other people, because I like to know the whole story (the way you guys are able to spin such great stories around people just going from one box to another to shoot stuff is fantastic, especially how you reveal things in little bits over time). And it's possible for me to go do these missions solo if I really want to soak things in, but I tend to love teaming most of the time. And soloing TFs is by definition impossible.
The worst for me was when I finally got around to doing the Hess/Burkholder TF. I'd heard people say for weeks that it's the best one. I was glad to be able to auto-exemp down for it. But it turned out that half of the people on my team were alts and had done it many times before. They had the whole strategies memorized so well that well before the time most of us had even set foot in the doors, the missions would be over already, like 1 minute from getting the missions in the first place. They only wanted us inside during 2 of the missions, and in the last one, they wanted us all to just stand by the door. I saw some neat robots, and part of a really big one (I would have seen even less of it if I had totally listened to them), but I have no idea what I supposedly "did". I guess I could track down a guide on the net. But I think maybe I'll try doing it again, being the leader the next time.
[ QUOTE ]
but it will have to wait until some of the engineers get their heads up from City of Villains to take a look at this. Rest assured that I am looking into this option (which I know doesn't satisfy everyone).
[/ QUOTE ]
If keeping the engineers toiling on CoV costs me badges.......take 'em all and get CoV working!
Sometimes, I impress my boss. Sometimes, I impress myself. The rest of the time, I scare people. I can live with that.
[ QUOTE ]
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Now go back to your poorly spelt manifestos against the devs.
[/ QUOTE ]
No such word as spelt in the context you meant it, even it u were refering to a sub species of common wheat. Perhaps u meant spelled. Glad to have helped.
[/ QUOTE ]
http://dict.die.net/spelt/
Spelt \Spelt\,
imp. & p. p. of Spell. Spelled.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Spelt
A past tense and a past participle of spell
http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictiona...8form+words%29
spell (FORM WORDS)
verb {I or T} spelled or UK AND AUSTRALIAN ENGLISH ALSO spelt, spelled or UK AND AUSTRALIAN ENGLISH ALSO spelt
http://wordwebonline.com/en/SPELL
Verb: spell (spelt, also spelled) spel
Derived forms: spelt, spells, spelling
http://www.allwords.com/word-spelling.html
spell1
verb spelt, spelled, spelling
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...pelt&hl=en
There are fewer strong verbs and irregular verbs in modern English than there were in Old English. Slowly over time the number of irregular verbs is decreasing. The force of analogy tends to reduce the number of irregular verbs over time. This fact explains why irregular verbs tend to be the most commonly used ones, verbs that are more rarely heard are more likely to switch to being regular. For instance, a verb like ablate was once irregular but today ablated is the standard usage. Today irregular and standard forms often coexist, a sign that the irregular form may be on the wane. For instance, seeing spelled instead of spelt or strived instead of strove is common.
Getting the right answers, like data mining, can be more complicated than it appears.
[/ QUOTE ]
Obviously if we do searches a little longer we can get places that list spelt. I'm not old english though or from the UK, Australia, etc. So in the case of typing "u" as opposed to "you" and telling me I don't know how to spell when many people type it that way in informal online chat or msg boards... U get my point... Proper isn't always current, and current isn't always proper but accepted. So I'll spell however I feel is currently properly current. So u, 2, b, c00l, y0, etc forever! Taser always [censored] about spelling.. What trollers do to try to make u mad... But I'm not really the one complaining about spelling so I guess it makes him mad more to feel the need to correct me to make himself feel superior or something. If only I cared.
That's a nice touch. But I would really like to have seen 24 hours of no debt. I mean, I've died a bunch of times, and have so much debt I will not see 50 for a LONG time, and I'm 48.
This is VERY rude on your part. As bad as the WoW community is, it seems we are being forced to move there. To bad, we've been playing CoH since it came out, and it seems this will always be my favorite all time game.
So thank you for all the wonderful memories. I'm sorry that you let things get so bad that you feel the need to drive players away.
Good luck to everyone, I hope you all have as good a time as I 've had had.
I know, seriously! Statesman wouldn't give me a pony, so I'm packing up and leaving. GOD, why must those devs be so rude?
ps: what
About an hour ago I completed the moonfire TF and got the badge. But the pic is an exploration badge. Is this just a place holder?
[ QUOTE ]
As for assigning the badges to those with the souvenirs. That -might- (in the biggest sense of the word) be possible, but it will have to wait until some of the engineers get their heads up from City of Villains to take a look at this. Rest assured that I am looking into this option (which I know doesn't satisfy everyone).
[/ QUOTE ]
Just as an aside...
I'm going to keep this quote handy, and pull it out the next time somebody starts to use the "CoV and CoH have separate teams, so it's not CoV's fault that CoH doesn't have any new content" argument.
[ QUOTE ]
Heck, how about limiting Task Force Commander to the Shadow Shard TFs (complete all four to get it), and it gives you something like Requiem's epualets for a Shoulders option? Or maybe some other knick-knack that screams "Shard".
[/ QUOTE ]
Ooh yeah, I like this. You could wear a hollowed out observer on your head, just so you look like a mutant freak! Make it blink randomly and look around for good measure, and I'm there.