Bravo.
Thank you for this post, Positron. This is what customer service is. You told us what was new, you told us what was tried and could not be done. You let us know that you all worked hard and tried to figure out how to retroactively give these badges. Thank you. I don't care that it wasn't possible. Just thank you very much for the honesty and straightforward offering of this information.
[ QUOTE ]
TheMightyScourge - ...and then your sweet tangy sauce would reduce this chance, but then *they'd* whip out this big old bonus and you'd be all like 'omg what about my sauce'?
[/ QUOTE ]
Its sad that some of us who had enough lvl 50s to keep happy just went after badges, now only to see the devs shaft us again. Statesman Sucks! An Positron please TAKE OVER AS LEAD AN RESTORE US TO OUR FORMER GLORY. It seems like you are the only one with a set of grapefruits enough to share some honesty. Either way I5 blows tremondusly, an I as a tank have seen my teammates die more now than I have since I2. Its a good thing WoW isnt treating people the way micheal jackson treats littel boys, like we are haveing done to us right now by COH
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Just to clear some stuff up:
The fact that you did the Task Force is NOT stored on your character anywhere. There is (well, there WAS) no reason to store this, since you could do them over and over again.
Suggestions like "just datamine ME" or "just datamine the level 44+ characters" don't narrow down the database query at all. We still need to look at ALL the data for the specific bits of Task Force related goodness that says "yes, this guy did the Task Force".
As for assigning the badges to those with the souvenirs. That -might- (in the biggest sense of the word) be possible, but it will have to wait until some of the engineers get their heads up from City of Villains to take a look at this. Rest assured that I am looking into this option (which I know doesn't satisfy everyone).
[/ QUOTE ]
Also, conversely, is it possible to award someone who has a badge an associated souvineer, thus sidestepping whatever issue it was that was preventing task force souvineers from distribution? Thus allowing their reinstatement?
Tygara - 50 Claws/Regen/Power Scrapper, Virtue- Member of Kitties on the Prowl.
Shadeburn - Dark/Rad Defender, Virtue- Member of Catch 'Em Crew
Nature Boy' - Elec/Ice Blaster, Virtue - Member of Young Phalanx
[ QUOTE ]
That's a nice touch. But I would really like to have seen 24 hours of no debt. I mean, I've died a bunch of times, and have so much debt I will not see 50 for a LONG time, and I'm 48.
This is VERY rude on your part. As bad as the WoW community is, it seems we are being forced to move there. To bad, we've been playing CoH since it came out, and it seems this will always be my favorite all time game.
So thank you for all the wonderful memories. I'm sorry that you let things get so bad that you feel the need to drive players away.
Good luck to everyone, I hope you all have as good a time as I 've had had.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, you're right. You ar being forced to move to WoW.
The GMs get back to you too quickly in Coh, you need the GMs to ignore and tell you there is no problem when it is blatantly obvious.
Oh, and you need to go to WoW so you can feel better about playing when an 8 year old decided to PK you and insult your heritage because they think it's fun, can't get that kind of treatment in CoH.
Not to mention the fact the the Devs tell you what's happening (nerfed, buffed, etc.) before it happens! Dear Lord, you NEED WoW so they can change things without telling anyone! I mean, what fun is it to have one of the most powerful builds and then find out beforehand that they are nerfing it down?
Okay, I'm better now.
Please ensure that anyone who wishes to obtain a badge accrued by defeating a numerical amount of members to a villain group must /exemplify to a level where these villains are also worth experience.
Otherwise, we have hordes of high level characters swarming upon an area much to the chagrin of lower level characters of newer players.
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Please ensure that anyone who wishes to obtain a badge accrued by defeating a numerical amount of members to a villain group must /exemplify to a level where these villains are also worth experience.
Otherwise, we have hordes of high level characters swarming upon an area much to the chagrin of lower level characters of newer players.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes this does happen but it will only last a week tops, then everything will setle down, and often we help lowbies.
i'm glad someone at least mentioned about the shard tf badges,i have petitioned multiple times since i5 released about not getting credit for them.
out of all the badges not to get credit for...i did the older TFs over for fun.the only thing that would bring me back to the shard zones would have to be an event.
i suppose its not that big of a deal to many,but spending weeks looking for 7 other people bord enough to travel to those zones then having to relay tp them back and forth,not to mention one of the tf in particular took around 11 hours.then repeat looking for team for days to do the next one.the only positive thing about doing the TFs in the first place was the thought that credit would be given later.
I can certainly understand that you have better things to do than datamine every player to award badges, or datamine specific players. I was wondering if instead, if people could prove within reason that they completed the TF, that you give the badge. For instance screenshots of Ruladak the Strong being taken down by a team (which I just happen to have).
This would allow a reasonable number of heroes to get the badges I think with minimal effort by your staff. Obviously not everyone would have this and I'm biased, but I know I'm nowhere near the only person who takes screenshots of AVs (especially at the end of TFs). This might fix a large % of the problem.
I love you, Positron. You're my favorite.
*Red Flag*
Was chatting wih a friend who had just finished the I5 version of Augistine TF (Saga of Faathim), they were not awarded the badges.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Known Issues on the Live Servers
Croatoa_Buck_Arc. Mission 5, clicking on or mousing over the blue starburst information icon in the nav window when the mission turns into a timed mission will crash the client .
The Justine Augustine Task Force is not granting any rewards (enchancement, experience, influence or badge) when the task force is completed
Players with male avatars who try to change their costume at the icon tailor may be charged extra influence beyond their changes. This issue should only happen once, and we will be giving a free costume token to all players on Sept 1 to compensate for this bug.
I have been told it is "unknown" if they will datamine for the Justin TF.
I would think the least they can do is datamine back to i5 release date.
I spent 4 hours to complete this with no reward received. Oh, wait, I got influence - which I dont need.
Yes, I had fun, but Ive done the TF before and the ONLY reason I was doing it again was for the badge.
Anyone else who has run into this issue - make your voice heard. A datamine needs to be done and those heroes who completed trials/TF's since i5 release MUST be given their rewards.
After all the nerfs the ATs have encountered, its the least that can be done.
if people are given badges for TFs now or back to i5 release then those of us who have already done the shadow shard TFs should also recieve credit,after all,to get the badge is the only reason we did it.
Ive done all the Shard TFs multiple times. BUT i understand that badges began with i5 and dont expect them to datamine back to game opening.. thats alot of into to go thru
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I have been told it is "unknown" if they will datamine for the Justin TF.
I would think the least they can do is datamine back to i5 release date.
I spent 4 hours to complete this with no reward received. Oh, wait, I got influence - which I dont need.
Yes, I had fun, but Ive done the TF before and the ONLY reason I was doing it again was for the badge.
Anyone else who has run into this issue - make your voice heard. A datamine needs to be done and those heroes who completed trials/TF's since i5 release MUST be given their rewards.
After all the nerfs the ATs have encountered, its the least that can be done.
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My team of 8 encountered the same problem. Sure it's listed on the Known Issues page, but it's not like the Known Issues page appears when you start CoHUpdater.exe. In fact, special attention isn't even drawn to the LINK for the page. The text "known issues" appears in the same font and color as the other links, with the exception of "PATCH NOTES". That appears in bold red.
What does it say on the PATCH NOTES page? "All Task Forces now reward badges upon completion". Interesting.
I have firm proof that the Devs released I5 with the full knowledge that this TF was bugged. They released it, knowing the TF would NOT award a badge upon completion, and did NOTHING aside from two lines of text on an obscure Issues page to warn players about the flaw. They could have disabled the TF, or put in an additional line of text that would appear when agreeing to start the TAsk Force letting the leader know that NO BADGE would be awarded.
Again, I have firm evidence that the Devs released I5, knowing the TF would not award a badge. They knew this, released the issue anyway, and did NOTHING to warn players. I am currently awaiting permission to publish this evidence, and will do so when that allowance has been made.
Why do you need permission to publish it?
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Why do you need permission to publish it?
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Just out of courtesy. Don't want to get him/her in trouble with NCSoft or Cryptic or anything.
You are aware that they have, and will probably continue to do so, released Issues with known errors and bugs, right?
I can't remember the exact post (around I3, I think - you can find the post if you'd like), but if there aren't any "show-stopper" bugs such as huge load times, consistent crashes when zoning, etc, they'll release the Issue and patch it.
Expecting a perfect, bug-free release is ludicrous.
-- Warmaster
Bugs are expected - agreed.
Should they announce badges are rewarded for tasks, know its a bug, and not correct it by stating they will datamine? No. totally unacceptable in any case.
Its not good customer service. Putting it in a spot where not every customer will see the announcement of said "bug"is not good customer service.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and Im just stating mine.
Regardless of this occurring to me personally or someone I barely knew - doesnt matter - my opinion remains the same.
The devs need to do the right thing and make sure they are awarded upon patch.
I have not received confirmation that this will be the case, just a PM stating that the fix IS IN the next release.
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Bugs are expected - agreed.
Should they announce badges are rewarded for tasks, know its a bug, and not correct it by stating they will datamine? No. totally unacceptable in any case.
Its not good customer service. Putting it in a spot where not every customer will see the announcement of said "bug"is not good customer service.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and Im just stating mine.
Regardless of this occurring to me personally or someone I barely knew - doesnt matter - my opinion remains the same.
The devs need to do the right thing and make sure they are awarded upon patch.
I have not received confirmation that this will be the case, just a PM stating that the fix IS IN the next release.
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Yes,I did this TF on Thursday night, and the 6 of us left at the end of the TF petitioned it and all got back the standard response in the morning, pointing us to the Known Issues page.
I'm not so upset about losing 2 and a half hours of time, but I am upset that our entire team was misled into thinking we'd get the badge by the text you mentioned. And that I had to spend the next several days warning people who regularly read the boards not to do the Just Augistine TF (and note, it's Justin, not Justine as the Known Issue page claims... since there's only one female Shard TF contact, that further confuses things).
The LEAST the devs could do is have a red name post here saying "Justin Augustine's TF does not give a badge," since I doubt many forum goers are reading this far into this thread. I'd prefer it if they actually posted Known Issues that the devs will be unwilling to help with in text in the patch updater, rather than CoV / Issue 5 promotional graphics with a red link tp patch notes and a link that blends in to known issues.....
I would hope that they would do some sort of datamining, but again, I'm concerned that there's no real prevention of people being misled into thinking they can currently spend hours on the Justin TF and get the badge....
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Known Issues on the Live Servers
The Justine Augustine Task Force is not granting any rewards (enchancement, experience, influence or badge) when the task force is completed
[/ QUOTE ]
It would have been nice to know this before we started out Shadow Shard TF Marathon on Saturday (9/2/05).
It would have been even nicer if they had said "And don't bother petitioning for it at completion too as we are not awarding it you have to do the TF when the award works and not before because we hide obscure references to known bugs in places that a normal person doesn't go looking."
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Customer ()09/04/2005 04:09 AM
Petition: XML Submission
Server:
9/4/05 4:08 AM CDT complete tf, no badge
-------------------------
Response (CUSTOMERSUPPORT)09/04/2005 01:23 PM
Hello,
Thank you for contacting the City of Heroes support team. At this time, the Justin Augustine Task Force is not granting any rewards upon completion of the Task Force. This is an issue the development team is aware of, and they are working to correct it as soon as possible. Unfortunately, the support team is not able to grant your character any rewards that you may have received upon completion of this Task Force. You can find information about this, and other known issues, on the City of Heroes Web Site Known Issues list located at http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/known_issues.html. We apologize for the inconvenience and the frustration this has caused. Please contact us if you have any further questions or problems.
Take care
-------------------------
Will I be able to re-petition when the 'known issue' is resolved?
-------------------------
Hello,
Thank you for contacting us. Unfortunately, in-game support will not be able to provide any lost rewards. However, once this issue is corrected, players will be able to complete this task force again to receive the proper rewards. Please stay tuned to our website for any further updates, and we apologize for the inconvenience.
-------------------------
This wasn't a 'lost' reward.
This was earned. And not awarded.
As to the 'known issues', it does not say anything about not getting the reward at a later date by repeating the TF. It only says 'currently not issuing'.
Since the team did this after the time the badge is 'available', as there is a place holder for it in the 'Accomplishement', it should be available for installation.
Through notification via the petition system.
There is no notice that the award itself will not be awarded until it is working, no matter when the TF is done.
I can understand that the reward system may have a difficulty in automatically assigning it at completion, but if the data is made available to the 'higher ups' that the task was completed, there should not be a difficulty in awarding it.
-------------------------
Hello, and thank you for contacting City of Heroes Support.
We are at this time not awarding the badge. If that changes, there will be an update on the forums.
Thank you
[/ QUOTE ]
Sometimes, I impress my boss. Sometimes, I impress myself. The rest of the time, I scare people. I can live with that.
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I have been told it is "unknown" if they will datamine for the Justin TF.
I would think the least they can do is datamine back to i5 release date.
I spent 4 hours to complete this with no reward received. Oh, wait, I got influence - which I dont need.
Yes, I had fun, but Ive done the TF before and the ONLY reason I was doing it again was for the badge.
Anyone else who has run into this issue - make your voice heard. A datamine needs to be done and those heroes who completed trials/TF's since i5 release MUST be given their rewards.
After all the nerfs the ATs have encountered, its the least that can be done.
[/ QUOTE ]
My team of 8 encountered the same problem. Sure it's listed on the Known Issues page, but it's not like the Known Issues page appears when you start CoHUpdater.exe. In fact, special attention isn't even drawn to the LINK for the page. The text "known issues" appears in the same font and color as the other links, with the exception of "PATCH NOTES". That appears in bold red.
What does it say on the PATCH NOTES page? "All Task Forces now reward badges upon completion". Interesting.
I have firm proof that the Devs released I5 with the full knowledge that this TF was bugged. They released it, knowing the TF would NOT award a badge upon completion, and did NOTHING aside from two lines of text on an obscure Issues page to warn players about the flaw. They could have disabled the TF, or put in an additional line of text that would appear when agreeing to start the TAsk Force letting the leader know that NO BADGE would be awarded.
Again, I have firm evidence that the Devs released I5, knowing the TF would not award a badge. They knew this, released the issue anyway, and did NOTHING to warn players. I am currently awaiting permission to publish this evidence, and will do so when that allowance has been made.
[/ QUOTE ]
Note that bolded bit; Currently NO online game does this unless it's game breaking. What you DO get from CoH is a link to the known issues on the patch page and it's right there beside Patch Notes link. Just because you didn't click it or take the time to learn more about the game doesn't mean they're miraculously responsible for awarding you a badge that they say elsewhere isn't being awarded right now.
You know, there's a good chance that the known issues weren't put in large flashing bold letters because they really do affect a small portion of the population. Those who happen to do one of the Shadow Shard TF's. Many people honestly do not know where the shadow shards are, let alone that there's four task forces in there. Those that do know about these also tend to be board readers.
Those that are board readers also tend to be more savvy about the known issues, and know to check the list after patching.
That having been said... Because the known issues are not game breaking they really don't need to be front-page-bold. That it *is* on the front page says quite a lot. When you visit www.cityofheroes.com you can see there's a Known Issues section that you even have to scan down past to get to the Community section. From there you can search the forums for Known Issues and quite likely will find a current list of known issues.
Take a look at World of Warcraft, for contrast. Go to their support section and you'll find a whole lot of mess but no solid list of known issues. It might be there but I can't find it easily even when specifically looking for it.
Or Everquest 2... The known issues is under support, but not under a front page pull-down like most of the other sections on the site. Clicking on it... well... it seems to be a dead link, or just heavily loaded down. Either way, though, I had to go out of my way to find it and even then I'm still unsure of what known issues there are and how game breaking they are.
In summary; they're really under no obligation whatsoever to make known issues front page news. You pay for the service. You get the service.
And to those that say "It's the least that they can do" well, you're just wrong there. Technically the least they can do is nothing, and that's what they're doing. When the known issue is fixed then you'll be able to do the tf and get your badge. Until then... there's a whole lot more game to play than that one tf. Why not go do that then?
To those that say "I pay my $15/mo to play therefore I'm entitled..." You got your play in. You just didn't get one small thing in game. I, however, see the validity in being a spiteful [censored] and say that *my* $15/mo is equally valid to *your* $15/mo and feel that you should not now, nor ever, be rewarded this badge out of spite for being a whiney oik. Is my money more valid than yours? No. That's why they're not doing this. Nor are they doing your solution either.
At least they said why they're not rewarding badges retroactively. Take that as a small grace.
The bit about 'Currently awaiting permission to publish'... You really don't need permission. The majority of your stuff is posted on a public board. The only bit you'd need to get permission for, technically, is the emailed conversations with Support that usually have a 'don't publish this' note on the bottom. In this case you're simply not likely to get permission. You may as well move on.
But go ahead and publish. This raises the interesting question of 'to what end?' You have evidence that they released buggie content. Wow... that's front page news in the gaming community! An online game released buggie content?! Never!
My advice... chalk it up to experience and move on.
Now you know to check the known issues page, and knowing is half the battle.
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At least they said why they're not rewarding badges retroactively. Take that as a small grace.
[/ QUOTE ]
They've said why they aren't rewarding the badges retroactively for those who did the TFs before I5 went live. It was understandable, albeit did not speak well that they were so shortsighted they didn't put in tracking before I5.
For them to release I5 where one of the features is that all TFs grant badges, for them not to change the text from the TF granter warning you that it's broken, and then refuse to do anything is very poor form. And in a service business, poor form is poor business.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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At least they said why they're not rewarding badges retroactively. Take that as a small grace.
[/ QUOTE ]
They've said why they aren't rewarding the badges retroactively for those who did the TFs before I5 went live. It was understandable, albeit did not speak well that they were so shortsighted they didn't put in tracking before I5.
For them to release I5 where one of the features is that all TFs grant badges, for them not to change the text from the TF granter warning you that it's broken, and then refuse to do anything is very poor form. And in a service business, poor form is poor business.
[/ QUOTE ]
Positron at the start of the thread:
[ QUOTE ]
We are going forward with the situation as it is. If you would like one of the new Task Force badges, you will need to re-do the content. We made it as easy as possible for you to re-do the content with the Auto-exemplar feature. We're sorry, and apologize to players who feel they have to re-do content that they don't want to, just to earn a reward they feel they should already have.
Customer Service is NOT able to grant you these badges for any reason. Petitioning to get the new badges will not get you the new badges, only a polite reply that it is not possible to do so.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the relevant patch note:
[ QUOTE ]
All Task Forces now award badges upon completion.
[/ QUOTE ]
*and* the relevant known issues quote:
[ QUOTE ]
The Justine Augustine Task Force is not granting any rewards (enchancement, experience, influence or badge) when the task force is completed
[/ QUOTE ]
Put all three together. There's conflicting information. In situations of conflicting information people tend to latch on to whatever information favours them the most. That of 'all tf's offer badges, I did a tf and did not get a badge, I should be reqarded a badge' in many cases on this thread.
So... viewed with a different omission of information: '[i]I did a tf. The patch notes said that this tf is not currently rewarding a badge. Positron said that Customer Service is NOT able to grant badges retroactively for content that did not previously offer.'
You see the problem with conflicting information (over just wrong information)?
Think of it like tiers of information. The order appears to be Dev posts > Known Issues > Patch Notes.
The polite version would be along the lines of 'while this is regrettable...' yada-yada-yada that no one would like anyways. The rude version would be along the lines of 'Not our fault you don't see the information the same way we do.'
Yes, they should change the notes. That they haven't is not good form. However, this is still honestly quite a small issue and don't see what all the fuss is. On one hand some people put a few hours in and didn't get a reward. On the other hand it's still a very small segment of the population and there are known issues posted about this already. Additionally, it's just a game (this point is occasionally forgotten, it seems, and people take things WAY too seriously).
Positron. You rock.
You should quit being state's right hand man and be the head dev!