Positron:
Thank you for a clear, consise, and open response. I don't like it (four ShadowShard TFs and the MoonFire TF - UGH!) but I do understand no why it is the way it is.
Please teach those that do the release notes how to write/speak so we have fewer flamewars.
Three Shard Task Forces give the badge.
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I can certainly understand that you have better things to do than datamine every player to award badges, or datamine specific players. I was wondering if instead, if people could prove within reason that they completed the TF, that you give the badge. For instance screenshots of Ruladak the Strong being taken down by a team (which I just happen to have).
This would allow a reasonable number of heroes to get the badges I think with minimal effort by your staff. Obviously not everyone would have this and I'm biased, but I know I'm nowhere near the only person who takes screenshots of AVs (especially at the end of TFs). This might fix a large % of the problem.
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Tried this, with 10 screenshots of the AV, mission complete, TF complete dialogue, etc. Still a stupid canned GM response. I know for a fact GM's can award badges, they never use their power. 
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Hope that clears that up.
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A very clear explanation, yes. All my badge/TF related questions have been answered. Thanks, Pos, for letting us know what's up!
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
Since the Faathim TF is bugged will you at least be datamining or whatever from I5 onward?
I really don't want to have to do that TF a third time...
I second that!
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You know, there's a good chance that the known issues weren't put in large flashing bold letters because they really do affect a small portion of the population.
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That's the same kind of elitist thinking that is indicative of self-righteous conceit. Right, just because it doesn't affect the masses, it isn't important. So I suppose just because AIDS infects 0.6% of the US population (http://www.avert.org/aids-america.htm), it's not worth warning people about. A stretch? Maybe, but relevant by your standards.
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No, it's both a *very* large stretch (known as the fallacy of Goal-Post shifting) and irrelevant.
The only people this particular known issue affects are those that A) are level 45+, B) know about the task force, C) have tried to do the task force since I5 was released, and D) didn't read the known issues page. The worst consequence of doing this tf successfully is in not getting a badge.
Whereas with AIDS... the worst consequence is death and unknowing transmission (leading to more deaths).
If you want to see how much of a stretch your analogy is just take this same argument to a message board for people with AIDS. Let's see how well that's received there.
Just because it doesn't affect the masses isn't the sole reason, but it's up there. The rest of the post also hammered in that those the bug has affected has done so in what is ultimately a trivial way. You didn't get a badge. That's it. It's not like you're going to DIE because you didn't get the badge. And if you do die because of that... well... you've just become fodder for tabloids. 
Self-righteous? Conceit? Maybe. Maybe not.
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Those that do know about these also tend to be board readers.
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What about casual players who don't read the boards or compulsively read the "Known Issues"?
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Someone posted their email exchange with support. Note that they put a link directly to the known issues page in the email.
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That having been said... Because the known issues are not game breaking they really don't need to be front-page-bold.
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This is a matter of opinion, not fact.
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This is true. And you saying otherwise is also opinion and not fact.
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Until then... there's a whole lot more game to play than that one tf. Why not go do that then?
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You must be referring to the other three Shard TFs, or the repetitive Shadow Shard missions, which are the only available content for my level 50's now. I've done the three TFs three times now (Justin Augustine four). Sure, I roll alts, but I love my 50's more. I guess I should just suck it up and repeat the same "free the captives" missions over and over again? Oh that's right, level 50's are a minority. We don't matter.
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Then go play something else. Or exemplar and do lower missions with people. Or retire your 50s until the new level 50 content is released. You have options, but many of them are options you don't like. Just because you don't like the options at hand by no means makes them less valid.
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To those that say "I pay my $15/mo to play therefore I'm entitled..." You got your play in.
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See my above point. Sure, i get my play in, but I get the same thing. Over, and over again.
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Don't like it? Feeling left out of new content? Maybe a break from the game would be in order. Again, you have options that you're choosing not to use.
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I, however, see the validity in being a spiteful [censored] and say that *my* $15/mo is equally valid to *your* $15/mo and feel that you should not now, nor ever, be rewarded this badge out of spite for being a whiney oik. Is my money more valid than yours? No. That's why they're not doing this. Nor are they doing your solution either.
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You're right. The currency you pay to play this game makes your opinion as valid as mine. So when you complain about Blasters' bonus damage (citation I will support you, even though the issue does not affect me. Or when you comment on the new weakness of the stealth pool I will support you, even though it doesn't affect
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You know, the bug *does* affect me. I just had the foresight to pay attention to the known issues page after a patch gets released. Yeah, this bit is self-righteous.
Now... just because you support my comments doesn't mean I'm in any way, shape, or form obligated to support your comments. Opinions are just that. Opinions. In a discussion forum things are open to discussion.
The bug does affect me, but ultimately it's trivial. This is why I'm not more sympathetic. When people make a huge deal out of trivial things I have great difficulty either respecting their whine and rants or even relating to them.
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At least they said why they're not rewarding badges retroactively. Take that as a small grace.
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Positron announced why they would not be rewarding badges earned pre-Issue 5. The bug started with Issue 5. The developers had the opportunity to start recording data for those who completed the Justin Augustine TF, but decided not to. Your point is invalid.
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Now, Positron announced something *like* that, but didn't actually say that.
Positron announced that they wouldn't be datamining for completion of the shadow shard task forces. *not* for badges earned pre-I5.
This is what Positron said:
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If you would like one of the new Task Force badges, you will need to re-do the content. We made it as easy as possible for you to re-do the content with the Auto-exemplar feature. We're sorry, and apologize to players who feel they have to re-do content that they don't want to, just to earn a reward they feel they should already have.
Customer Service is NOT able to grant you these badges for any reason. Petitioning to get the new badges will not get you the new badges, only a polite reply that it is not possible to do so.
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Note the language and how what you said differs from it. The wording could easily be extended to the bugged Augistine tf, particularly once the known issue is fixed. Nothing specifically mentions pre-I5, even though it is greatly implied. Additionally, known issues are generally special exceptions to the rule.
Your exchanges in PM's may be different than this but I really can't comment on those because that is not information made known. It's up to you to prove your side. :P If you can find an example of him saying otherwise then by all means quote it, because I missed it.
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You have evidence that they released buggie content.
My advice... chalk it up to experience and move on.
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No, I have evidence that they, despite internal compulsion to reconsider, released buggy content without issuing a substantial warning to players. I have evidence that a top-level employee warned the Developers of the customer service ramifications this decision would have. I have evidence that they ignored this warning, and are now getting what they deserve.
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Which is quite different from what you originally posted:
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Again, I have firm evidence that the Devs released I5, knowing the TF would not award a badge. They knew this, released the issue anyway, and did NOTHING to warn players. I am currently awaiting permission to publish this evidence, and will do so when that allowance has been made.
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Yet the known issues page is there. Those that didn't find it were directed to it by customer support in email exchanges.
So they are getting what they deserve? And what would that be? A whole lot of people are starting to come around on I5. There are many more serious issues (like Storm Controllers actually doing better than Storm Defenders) than the non-award of a badge. It's just a badge. If I'm missing something here, please fill me in. Otherwise you're just coming accross as a whining rules lawyer who's upset that theey didn't see something that they aren't obligated to point out.
Note that in the EULA you accept before playing the game includes a gem like this:
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THE SERVICE, THE SOFTWARE, THE ACCOUNT, THE CITY OF HEROES GAME AND ALL OTHER SERVICES ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS, PROVIDED AT YOUR OWN RISK, AND TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, NC INTERACTIVE HEREBY EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, WRITTEN OR ORAL, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF TITLE, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY, QUIET ENJOYMENT, ACCURACY, OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Without limiting the foregoing, NC Interactive does not ensure continuous, error-free, secure or virus-free operation of the Service, the Software, your Account or City of Heroes, and you understand that you shall not be entitled to refunds for fees based on NC Interactives failure to provide any of the foregoing . Some states do not allow the disclaimer of implied warranties, and to that extent, the foregoing disclaimer may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other legal rights that vary from state to state
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(emphasis mine)
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It's just a badge. If I'm missing something here, please fill me in. Otherwise you're just coming accross as a whining rules lawyer who's upset that theey didn't see something that they aren't obligated to point out.
Note that in the EULA you accept before playing the game includes a gem like this:
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THE SERVICE, THE SOFTWARE, THE ACCOUNT, THE CITY OF HEROES GAME AND ALL OTHER SERVICES ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS, PROVIDED AT YOUR OWN RISK, AND TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, NC INTERACTIVE HEREBY EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, WRITTEN OR ORAL, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF TITLE, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY, QUIET ENJOYMENT, ACCURACY, OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Without limiting the foregoing, NC Interactive does not ensure continuous, error-free, secure or virus-free operation of the Service, the Software, your Account or City of Heroes, and you understand that you shall not be entitled to refunds for fees based on NC Interactives failure to provide any of the foregoing . Some states do not allow the disclaimer of implied warranties, and to that extent, the foregoing disclaimer may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other legal rights that vary from state to state
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(emphasis mine)
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You did not emphasize the rest of this sentence:
, and you understand that you shall not be entitled to refunds for fees based on NC Interactives failure to provide any of the foregoing.
This is the reason that those lines are in the EULA.
If there is a bug that is preventing you from completing a mission, getting a badge, crashing the game, erasing your character or whatever, it is up to the devs to fix the problem, and up to the GMs to decide if they will remedy your situtation. Whether or not they do so has nothing to do with the language in the EULA, which simply says that you cannot get a refund.
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It's just a badge. If I'm missing something here, please fill me in. Otherwise you're just coming accross as a whining rules lawyer who's upset that theey didn't see something that they aren't obligated to point out.
Note that in the EULA you accept before playing the game includes a gem like this:
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THE SERVICE, THE SOFTWARE, THE ACCOUNT, THE CITY OF HEROES GAME AND ALL OTHER SERVICES ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS, PROVIDED AT YOUR OWN RISK, AND TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, NC INTERACTIVE HEREBY EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, WRITTEN OR ORAL, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF TITLE, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY, QUIET ENJOYMENT, ACCURACY, OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Without limiting the foregoing, NC Interactive does not ensure continuous, error-free, secure or virus-free operation of the Service, the Software, your Account or City of Heroes, and you understand that you shall not be entitled to refunds for fees based on NC Interactives failure to provide any of the foregoing . Some states do not allow the disclaimer of implied warranties, and to that extent, the foregoing disclaimer may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other legal rights that vary from state to state
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(emphasis mine)
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You did not emphasize the rest of this sentence:
, and you understand that you shall not be entitled to refunds for fees based on NC Interactives failure to provide any of the foregoing.
This is the reason that those lines are in the EULA.
If there is a bug that is preventing you from completing a mission, getting a badge, crashing the game, erasing your character or whatever, it is up to the devs to fix the problem, and up to the GMs to decide if they will remedy your situtation. Whether or not they do so has nothing to do with the language in the EULA, which simply says that you cannot get a refund.
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While that's the reason there's also the important wording involved in the use of the word 'and'.
It states that the program is provided AS IS, that NC Interactive does not ensure..., and that you understand that you shall not be entitled...
The wording seems to indicate that both are not necessarily inclusive of each other.
Hell, in the As Is section it even lists Quiet Enjoyment in the implied warranty bit.
So the bit following the As Is seems to indicate that they are two seperate but connected things more than one thing that cannot be seperated. That's how I read it. You may have read it differently.
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...which simply says that you cannot get a refund.
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actually, this EULA snippit serves a twofold purpose:
1) to inform you that this company cannot, does not, and will not "ensure continuous, error-free, secure or virus-free operation".
2) AND indemnify them against law suits or refund request as a result of such.
Dude dude dude - Positron Dude - Databases are like my hobby and my career for the past 10 years or so and I could mine your data. I can do things most people think are impossible with databases. Seriously. Seriously, dude. Seriously.
I know you won't call - but I thought I'd throw that out there. I'd LOVE to get my hands on the CoH database... see how much is controlled by it, what's in there, how it's in there. Y'all should hire me. I can work from Seattle, right? No? Oh - I... I should sit back down and keep quiet? OK. I guess. What if I agreed to do it for free? No? Conflict of interest? Hey - you don't need security, I'll calm down. Hey! I said I'd calm down. Just give me a chance! Hey! Get your hands off me! Positron, help!
Watch my CoH movie: The Big, Orange Head
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Please add a functionality into the Badges that allows us to view the Souvenir text from an arrow just like Souvenirs.
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Or just have the TF contact give out the souvenir to anyone who has the badge.
- wf
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One of the best ideas on this forum, and since they have the wrong badges being shown for the Shard and Moonfire TFs we KNOW they have to go back in there and fix code ...
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
so i have been waiting and taken a break from the game after getting no badge for the weeks i spent lft and doing those TF and getting no badge while others did.is there are chance that those of us who had already done the tf will be getting our badges now?
so i go back to shadow shard once again to get the TF badges since i didnt get credit the first 2 times.i get to about he 20th mission on the quarterfield TF.i'm down to a 2 man team considering the amount of hours this took.the mission requires 4 people to click computers at the same time.this is not possible with a 2 man team.
maybe consider changing something with this.the amount of time it took the first time i did the quarterfield TF was about 10 hour,the 2nd was a little faster but most people cannot stay online for so many hours at a time and with working different shifts makes it difficult to meet up,not to mention the people waiting cannot team for anything else and will quit the tf is something else comes up or they just get tired and give up.
i quess something to consider would be to adjust the mission to the amount of people left in the task force.
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You know, there's a good chance that the known issues weren't put in large flashing bold letters because they really do affect a small portion of the population.
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That's the same kind of elitist thinking that is indicative of self-righteous conceit. Right, just because it doesn't affect the masses, it isn't important. So I suppose just because AIDS infects 0.6% of the US population (http://www.avert.org/aids-america.htm), it's not worth warning people about. A stretch? Maybe, but relevant by your standards.
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Those that do know about these also tend to be board readers.
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What about casual players who don't read the boards or compulsively read the "Known Issues"?
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That having been said... Because the known issues are not game breaking they really don't need to be front-page-bold.
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This is a matter of opinion, not fact.
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Until then... there's a whole lot more game to play than that one tf. Why not go do that then?
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You must be referring to the other three Shard TFs, or the repetitive Shadow Shard missions, which are the only available content for my level 50's now. I've done the three TFs three times now (Justin Augustine four). Sure, I roll alts, but I love my 50's more. I guess I should just suck it up and repeat the same "free the captives" missions over and over again? Oh that's right, level 50's are a minority. We don't matter.
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To those that say "I pay my $15/mo to play therefore I'm entitled..." You got your play in.
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See my above point. Sure, i get my play in, but I get the same thing. Over, and over again.
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I, however, see the validity in being a spiteful [censored] and say that *my* $15/mo is equally valid to *your* $15/mo and feel that you should not now, nor ever, be rewarded this badge out of spite for being a whiney oik. Is my money more valid than yours? No. That's why they're not doing this. Nor are they doing your solution either.
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You're right. The currency you pay to play this game makes your opinion as valid as mine. So when you complain about Blasters' bonus damage (citation I will support you, even though the issue does not affect me. Or when you comment on the new weakness of the stealth pool I will support you, even though it doesn't affect
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At least they said why they're not rewarding badges retroactively. Take that as a small grace.
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Positron announced why they would not be rewarding badges earned pre-Issue 5. The bug started with Issue 5. The developers had the opportunity to start recording data for those who completed the Justin Augustine TF, but decided not to. Your point is invalid.
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You have evidence that they released buggie content.
My advice... chalk it up to experience and move on.
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No, I have evidence that they, despite internal compulsion to reconsider, released buggy content without issuing a substantial warning to players. I have evidence that a top-level employee warned the Developers of the customer service ramifications this decision would have. I have evidence that they ignored this warning, and are now getting what they deserve.