Ice Tanker Feedback

[ QUOTE ]
Elsewhere on the forums, someone suggested a QoL feature consisting of a little bar graph for each power, showing the relative effectiveness of each before and after slotting. There'd also be indicators to show if you've reached or exceeded a cap.

"Whoa, I won't be slotting Wet Ice for DEF. I didn't realize how little it gave me. I'd better use these for Icicles since it shows that power eats up endurance like crazy."

"Switching to SOs meant I exceeded the DEF cap. I'll move some of these +DEF enhancements out of my toggles and put in endurance reducers."

"My Fly speed doesn't need to be 5-slotted, I've already hit the speed limit! I'll use that slot elsewhere."

Of course, you'd need to be able to undo whatever you've just done once you found out that you slotted poorly. This means some sort of mechanic in place that doesn't involve you leveling on the Test Center first each time.

~~~~~

It'd be even better if, by merit of each power's construction, there were no "wrong" ways to slot things. Too much ACC in your attacks? Use the surplus as +PERCEPTION or a(n increased) chance to critical. Fly movement maxes with about 4 speed SOs? Slow Flight down to where 6 SOs hits the cap, or raise the cap to let 6 mean something.

Man, it's like we have to think of everything around here.

[/ QUOTE ]

All they have to do is copy the respec function for finalizing enhancements. Basically you can slot your enhancement and then have to press a seperate button to finalize it similar to when you are assigning slots to powers.

[ QUOTE ]
Hibernate isn't really phased, the ice is there, CE and icicles are passive agressive. I agree that you shouldn't be able to do anything while asleep, but it's not our fault if everyone is cold and stabbing themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this idea.

I would also like it if you could at least teleport while hibernating. Every other phase power allows you to use travel abilities; sure, with Hibernate jumping and perhaps super speed would be... tricky. But if you can teleport in granite form, why not while hibernating?

At the very least, it would be nice to be able to juggle self-based powers like anybody else with a phase shift can. Running low in E? Turn off icicles and CE for a bit, until it's charged back up, then turn them BACK on before you emerge. Ta daa.

Power not so useless. And at least hibernate, a tier 9 PRIMARY power, would have more utility than a POOL POWER that anybody can get.

And let me be the first to say...

Patch to the Training Server, and no Damage Debuff to test!!! ARRGG!

Ok, I'm better now.

So it seems resistance is being removed from some of the armors. That's nice. I guess we pointed out that there is really no need for a few things Ice has, so they're finally fixing them so you can't slot them poorly.

That should help a great deal if we start to see an increase in the number of Ice tankers as the Damage Debuff goes into effect. New players trying the set are less likely to gimp themselves.

But really, I wanna see and test that damage debuff. I want to know where we're going to stand, compared to the others. And PLEASE don't hold that addition off till after Issue 5. With our greatly reduced defenses, it's about all we have to hope for.

Thank you for your time. I'll be looking for a patch in 2 weeks (8/25), as that seems to be the roll-out schedule.

Well with just over 2 weeks left in August, we are quickly running out of time for testing such a major change in the structure of ice tanks.

I don't know when we're supposed to get more changes, but here's a few things I know:

Frozen Armor is getting upped to 17% DEF S/L
Glacial Armor is getting upped to 17% DEF E/N

The Damage Debuff will be 10%. The -Recharge is technically 66.7% (I posted about this in the Tanker forums for a better explanation of how that works).

I wasn't expecting the boost in Fire RES (not even sure what its at, will have to test it), but I know that Statesman understood my point that Fire is a much more common attack than say Cold, and that we should therefore be permitted more Fire defenses.

However I actually pleaded to get Ice Armor more Fire DEF not RES, and more Cold DEF, because I don't feel that Ice Armor's Cold defenses really stand out as much as they should be - heck Granite Armor completely trumps Ice's Cold defenses. I was trying to get the ratios between Invuln and Ice's Cold and Fire flipped which makes Ice stronger in both but keeps Ice ahead vs Cold, and Invuln ahead vs Fire.

I've also been pleading to get changes to Hibernate and a lower End Cost for Icicles. Including trying to get us to be able to use passive agressive powers like Chilling Embrace and Icicles while Hibernated.

In the end though, there is still a huge gap in defenses vs Smash/Lethal which are the most common damage types in game, both from players and mobs, despite the damage debuff and the other changes Invuln still takes 20%-30% of the damage of Ice. And I keep pressing on this point, but I'm not getting any feedback.

I've also questioned why they're so hard on EA, but why an SR Scrapper using Elude is allowed to hit the DEF cap vs everything and almost completely eclipse us. Note this is not nerfherding for SR, but more a question of why isn't Ice made to be as effective.

I've also done the same regarding Granite Armor, who with a mere 6 slots eclipses not only Ice, but also Invuln (except vs S/L for Invuln, where with enough mobs they can exceed Granite). Yes Granite has penalties, but End Crashes, death, and complete immobility and an inability to act/function are far worse penalties.

So there that's a brief coverage of what I know.

Thanks Circeus. All very good points that I'd love to hear answers to. (Not to mention all the other questions that have been asked in this thread.) Heck, I know I would post answers to those just to get two cases of free beer even if it isn't what you want to hear.

The new Fire Resistance #s are:

12.5% for Permafrost (enhaceable)
12.5% for Frozen Armor (unenhanceable)

Oh and the new Energy Absorption doesn't take End Recovery enhancements, and it very much should, as its still costing 15 End (lowered a little) to use, and you need a better rate of return on it because of that.

And End Drain enhancements are not duping for Recovery like they do in other transfer powers (which is essentially what EA is now). So that needs fixing too.

Edit: and we wouldn't want to wait an Entire issue like Warshades did for Stygian Cirle (I think that's the power)

Not a reply to Circeus, per se, he was just last, and thus the most convenient. Heh.

I actually did hit test today, and checked out the 'new' traits of ice armor powers. I also tested the fire resist in permafrost and frozen armor - not bad for unslotted (I got the same numbers). So IF you chose to six-slot permafrost, you could actually get an appreciable fire resist overall; what, 40%? Not bad for an ice tank.

I didn't test out the toxic resist in permafrost though, 'cause I didn't actually have any handy toxic bad guys at level 50 to work with (though now that I think of it, I could've tried to find a nemesis sniper in my range... bah). Though again... I forgot if the extra toxic was actually added in. So eh.

One curiosity I'd like to bring to your attention is that, while frozen armor and wet ice have had the resistance enhancements removed from the list, glacial armor has not been similarly modified. I figure this was one of those simple errors-by-omission, but thought I'd bring that to your attentions.

Wow, a constructive post from me. Woot.

Has AV damage been reduced yet? I'll be sure to test it tonight, if no one else has.

I agree on Glacial Armor still taking DamRes, and that it also, like FA, and WI, should not.

The Toxic addition (which should be 7.5% since its "to match Resist Elements") wasn't listed in the patch notes, and the descriptions for Permafrost were not changed to reflect it, so I did not test it.

In fact, near as I can tell, the Fire RES additions were the only changes that I could see on the entire set, I don't even think the Wet Ice change made it in yet.

But in looking the build is dated 8/3. This is 8/12. And I'm pretty sure that most of the changes that were mentioned to us were mentioned after 8/3.

Snorii: I don't think AV damage has been reduced yet. I saw a Test Server post last night where some one was one-shotted by both Battle Maiden and Shadowhunter.

10% damage debuff isn't enough to help with the lower defense, especailly with the limited range of CE and the limited number of mobs effected. I know we don't know what the defense buff will be on wet ice, but this debuff is just a slap in the face. It's another unehancable form of damage mitigation, while all the other sets can slot all of theirs. Also any AT can match our defense by themselves with out a buff by using luck inspirations. If that’s all it's going to be then increase the endurance drain on EA and keep the mobs from recovering endurance for a few seconds. Change hibernate to some more useful like Artic Air with a nice HP regen, give it a movement penalty or a crash I would just like to see the power be more than a glorified rest.

I have to say i too find this a bit distrubing that its only 10% but hen again, anything at this poitn is good, i mean its 10% to everything but id like to see that upped to 20% or at least give us the ability to enhance our 10% higher.

It's not 10% to everything (that would be resistance and we can't have that), it's 10% to everything with in range up to 10 mobs. I have yet seen or heard any rumor about a damage debuff enhancement. You would hear kins all over scream like school girls when those come out (if they ever do).

Gang,

Decided to give Permafrost a protection against Slow instead of Toxic...

And we've tweaked Hibernate so that your toggles won't drop anymore!

Woot!

Any comment as to if the damage debuff will be on test soon and if it is going to be 10%??

I'm down with this...still not sure about permafrost but I'll test it. I wish these comments included "and we plan on having these changes up on test by XXX." I hate spending time testing outdated decisions.

[ QUOTE ]
Decided to give Permafrost a protection against Slow instead of Toxic...

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it strange that we have toxic resistance in Hoarfrost, a very slow recharging power that is usually slotted for heal and recharge. (I'm not even positive you can slot resistance in Hoarfrost. I've just never tried.) It seems a lot more logical to me to put toxic resistance in permafrost where you will slot for resistance. I would definitely prefer it that way unless toxic defense finally made it into the game.

Has Wet Ice's slow resist ever been fixed at the higher levels?

[ QUOTE ]
And we've tweaked Hibernate so that your toggles won't drop anymore!

[/ QUOTE ]
Nice. I've never thought Hibernate was good in groups, but this is great for solo play.

[ QUOTE ]
Gang,

Decided to give Permafrost a protection against Slow instead of Toxic...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. Hmmmm still no reason to actually take Permafrost. The increased resistance to fire/cold really hasnt made itself noticeble on my informal testing on the Training Room.

[ QUOTE ]
I find it strange that we have toxic resistance in Hoarfrost, a very slow recharging power that is usually slotted for heal and recharge.

[/ QUOTE ]

They did something similar in Stone and it doesn't make sense there either. They put it in Earth's Embrace instead of in one of the Armors where it would make sense (like Brimstone, which is underused anyway). We've asked why a lot but they have never commented on it.

They did add the resistance (or is it defense?) enhancement option to Earth's Embrace but nobody uses it.

Scorus

Now that the defense/defensive set is being tweaked for ice tankers can SR scrappers and FFers get some attention or at least some feedback on why ice tanker's defense isn't ok but their defense is?

[ QUOTE ]
I find it strange that we have toxic resistance in Hoarfrost, a very slow recharging power that is usually slotted for heal and recharge. (I'm not even positive you can slot resistance in Hoarfrost. I've just never tried.)

[/ QUOTE ]

What seems strange is that they haven't fix Toxic yet. And yes, you can slot hoarfrost with resistance.

About the changes... What can I say? I think the word I'm looking for is worthless, but I guess we have to wait until all these changes go to test... And still waiting for the announcement "EA's defense has been increase to 1.5% per mob. It's recharge time has been increased to 180 seconds"

The toxic resist is in Hoarfrost and Earth's Embrace because that's where they put the toxic resistance in all the tanker sets: the HP boosting power. It seems just as wierd in Healing Flame, and Dull Pain for that matter, but for a lot of sets where would you put it?

[ QUOTE ]
The toxic resist is in Hoarfrost and Earth's Embrace because that's where they put the toxic resistance in all the tanker sets: the HP boosting power. It seems just as wierd in Healing Flame, and Dull Pain for that matter, but for a lot of sets where would you put it?

[/ QUOTE ]

How about in a new passive power?

[ QUOTE ]
How about in a new passive power?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know... Permafrost!!!

oh wait...