You know, I was oddly prescient when I stated about six months ago that when they decide to 'look at' your power set, to be very very fearful. I said this on the controller board and BAM.
God forbid they look at any other power set in trouble. I'm talking to YOU claws.
"It was never intended that claws actually be used by anyone over level 4; the original goal was just to let people get their 'Wolverine-itis' out of their system then grow into a 'real' scrapper set. Henceforth claws are now made out of rubber, and do only 1 point of damage per attack..."
I can see it now.
Statesman:
[ QUOTE ]
We still want people to be able to solo, but in a group, every Archetype, every power, should have an opportunity to shine.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but I don't see Ice Armor shining. Yeah, you could say that glacial armor is shiny from the fx, but that is it. How in the world do Ice Tank powers "shine" in a group? I really don't want to hear that we can dance faster on caltrops than other archetypes.
Just my take on it.
1. Frozen Armor - Nope, it looks different, but the effect of the power is very mediocre.
2. Hoarfrost - Yes (Honestly, I want to rank it lower because it has toxic resistance.)
3. Chilling Embrace - Yes, I think you could really expand on this idea of slowing down enemies and debuffing damage. If you are scared of defense, why not add to this type of damage mitigation to ice tanks?
4. Wet Ice - Nope
5. Permafrost - I was actually considering taking this power if you were going to add toxic resistance, but instead gave us another slow resistance. Big No.
6. Icicles - Absolutely not, again this looks different, but it is a huge endurance hog with low damage in a small radius.
7. Glacial Armor - Nope
8. Energy Absorption - Different, but I don't see it shining considering the huge change in the power. It used to be the best power we had and made us feel like tanks. Now..... it is completely different and forces us to herd to maximize its benefit. Don't get me wrong, I hated the I4 version as well. Random mobs would get hit and even then, some would be phased, etc which it wouldn't affect.
9. Hibernate - yes, but I still love to hate this power. I really want something different as my last power.
The Dark Blade
"I've felt your mouse on me before, you perv...." - Troy Hickman
Paragon Wiki
I just got on live and was doing some croatoa missions with my ice tanker (level 32) and it seems the devs snuck in a change to icicles. It's damage ticks more often than previously. At a quick guess I would say is it ticking once a second now. I think the end drain is the same as before, but at least now it might be worth it.
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but I don't see Ice Armor shining. Yeah, you could say that glacial armor is shiny from the fx, but that is it.
[/ QUOTE ]
It also shines very will when you get your ice tank between your camera vantage and the setting sun in Talos. It's quite lovely. Aw crap.. now they're gonna nerf that too!
50 Tankers: Ice/EM, Stone/WM, Fire/Stone, Dark/Ice, Inv/SS, Inv/Dark, Elec/Elec
50 Brutes: ElecMelee/EA, WM/Elec
[ QUOTE ]
I just got on live and was doing some croatoa missions with my ice tanker (level 32) and it seems the devs snuck in a change to icicles. It's damage ticks more often than previously. At a quick guess I would say is it ticking once a second now. I think the end drain is the same as before, but at least now it might be worth it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Gah, I used my free respec this morning before work and dropped icicles. I guess it is time to go take on the reactor then. Thanks for the info Macros the Black.
The Dark Blade
"I've felt your mouse on me before, you perv...." - Troy Hickman
Paragon Wiki
[ QUOTE ]
Gah, I used my free respec this morning before work and dropped icicles. I guess it is time to go take on the reactor then. Thanks for the info Macros the Black.
[/ QUOTE ]
The test I did last night seems to show that icicle's damage speed hasn't changed. Also, at level 32 in bricks jumping into the middle of 10-12 council, I believe I was hit once or twice before they all fell (Ice/Axe). Health bar barely moved. Still, the dumbest think in the world is hitting EA to get full defense with my end bar still at max. What a stupid waste of power.
[ QUOTE ]
I just got on live and was doing some croatoa missions with my ice tanker (level 32) and it seems the devs snuck in a change to icicles. It's damage ticks more often than previously. At a quick guess I would say is it ticking once a second now. I think the end drain is the same as before, but at least now it might be worth it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I tried this out on the test server late last night, and its still burning the same End and the tics are still slightly over 2s apart. And the test server and live are currently on the same build #.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just got on live and was doing some croatoa missions with my ice tanker (level 32) and it seems the devs snuck in a change to icicles. It's damage ticks more often than previously. At a quick guess I would say is it ticking once a second now. I think the end drain is the same as before, but at least now it might be worth it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I tried this out on the test server late last night, and its still burning the same End and the tics are still slightly over 2s apart. And the test server and live are currently on the same build #.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmmmm... That is strange. I made sure to count it on live too, because it suprised me. I hadn't seen anything in the patch notes or on this thread about it. I could have made a mistake, but I was almost positive that it was 1s ticks on live. I will have to check it again tonight.
So, looking at my Primary Powers; I'm pretty much taking 6 powers and only 3 need any slotting (Only would slot EA for End drain, if I wanted to).
So 15 slots to max Frozen Armor, Hoarfrost, and Glacial Armor... this gave me the oddest feeling. "I'm building a Scrapper" :O .
Is this what most people are stuck doing? Slotting attacks because most of the Primary are lost causes?
[ QUOTE ]
So, looking at my Primary Powers; I'm pretty much taking 6 powers and only 3 need any slotting (Only would slot EA for End drain, if I wanted to).
So 15 slots to max Frozen Armor, Hoarfrost, and Glacial Armor... this gave me the oddest feeling. "I'm building a Scrapper" :O .
Is this what most people are stuck doing? Slotting attacks because most of the Primary are lost causes?
[/ QUOTE ]
From the Primary? Yeah, FA, GA and Hoarfrost. I put 3 recharge and 1 taunt in EA, and will use it as my aggro/endo recovery power.
But will I be moving all those slots to my secondary? Heck no... They go into 6 slotted Tough, 6 slotted Weave and 6 slotted Health. At one point, we were upset because we were "required" to take Tough and slot it, in order to properly Tank as others. Now you need Weave too!
Tanks would be so lucky, if we could get extra damage to kill mobs faster, so we take less damage. Instead, we get weaker buffs, but lots of endo recovery.
Ok, I checked again just to make sure. Icicles is definately ticking at 1s now on Live. No idea why it is different than on test, but definately 1s now. I tried it with a bunch of different enemy type in croatoa (not that enemy type should matter) and the results were 1s every time. Maybe it was a server side change that didn't affect the client build?
Are you testing vs a single foe? Or multiple? Remember damage tics for multiple foes can be misleading.
[ QUOTE ]
"It was never intended that claws actually be used by anyone over level 4; the original goal was just to let people get their 'Wolverine-itis' out of their system then grow into a 'real' scrapper set. Henceforth claws are now made out of rubber, and do only 1 point of damage per attack..."
I can see it now.
[/ QUOTE ]
I *have* seen it. Excalibur #57 IIRC. 
*boing!*
Kam
I tested against both single and multiple. I was sitting next to the mobs and watching for the icicles damage update in the combat window. I didn't use any attacks other than icicles. I also confirmed it with the damage numbers over the mobs heads for multiple mobs.
Can anyone else confirm this? I can't be the only ice tanker on live who still has icicles
Nope; Icicles is still one tick every 2 seconds for me.
List the mobs and lvl...
Phantom Rose: Ill / Kin / Psi
Soleau: Ice / Icy / Ice / Core: Ice / Fire / Pyre / Wind / Eclipse / Flare / Corona
---------------
Solo Space
Sorry to post this request because it probably has been discussed. I am having eye problems and cant read too much at one time. With all the changes made to Ice Tanks, does someone have the actual numbers of what "decreased" this means?? Also, the new effects that the powers have now.
Thanks for any help,
Killer Glacier
I was testing against the tuatha de danon and fir bolg levels 28-29, minions through bosses. Ok, now I will admit that I could be crazy 
but I am usually pretty good at counting. Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
Editted for spelling
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to post this request because it probably has been discussed. I am having eye problems and cant read too much at one time. With all the changes made to Ice Tanks, does someone have the actual numbers of what "decreased" this means?? Also, the new effects that the powers have now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Though you PM'd me for this, I figured it couldn't hurt to post this here (a bit more laid out):
Frozen Armor:
17% DEF Smash/Lethal (down from 25%)
30% RES Cold (same)
12.5% RES Fire (up from 10%)
can no longer enhance for RES
Glacial Armor:
17% DEF Energy/Negative (down from 25%)
30% RES Cold (same)
can no longer enhance for RES
Wet Ice:
1.1% DEF Smash/Lethal/Energy/Negative/Fire/Cold (down from 12.5% E/N, 9% S/L/F/C)
30% RES Cold
can't enhance for RES or DEF
RES vs Sleep, Hold, Disorient, Slow, Immobilze, and Knockback
Permafrost:
20% RES Cold (same)
12.5% RES Fire (up from 10%)
Slow Resistance
Energy Absorption:
0.5% DEF per mob (down from 18.75%)
14 mob maximum (up from 5)
Drains End
Recovers End
Hoarfrost: (unchanged)
20% Toxic
Chilling Embrace:
now additionally provides 7% Damage Debuff
otherwise unchanged
Icicles:
unchanged
Hibernate:
Health Recovery (unchanged)
added End Recovery
Lowered EPS
Removed secondary activation
1.5s Activation
30s Duration (28.5s with subtracing 1.5s activation, timer counts from click)
120s Recharge (doubled)
[ QUOTE ]
Though you PM'd me for this, I figured it couldn't hurt to post this here (a bit more laid out):
Frozen Armor:
17% DEF Smash/Lethal (down from 25%)
30% RES Cold (same)
12.5% RES Fire (up from 10%)
can no longer enhance for RES
Glacial Armor:
17% DEF Energy/Negative (down from 25%)
30% RES Cold (same)
can no longer enhance for RES
Wet Ice:
1.1% DEF Smash/Lethal/Energy/Negative/Fire/Cold (down from 12.5% E/N, 9% S/L/F/C)
30% RES Cold
can't enhance for RES or DEF
RES vs Sleep, Hold, Disorient, Slow, Immobilze, and Knockback
Permafrost:
20% RES Cold (same)
12.5% RES Fire (up from 10%)
Slow Resistance
Energy Absorption:
0.5% DEF per mob (down from 18.75%)
14 mob maximum (up from 5)
Drains End
Recovers End
Hoarfrost: (unchanged)
20% Toxic
Chilling Embrace:
now additionally provides 7% Damage Debuff
otherwise unchanged
Icicles:
unchanged
Hibernate:
Health Recovery (unchanged)
added End Recovery
Lowered EPS
Removed secondary activation
1.5s Activation
30s Duration (28.5s with subtracing 1.5s activation, timer counts from click)
120s Recharge (doubled)
[/ QUOTE ]
Just a few quick questions, when you say 7% or 17% is that base? or max with ++ enhancements?
Your the master of EA C, how would you suggest slotting it now? Mind you I'm not a herder and usally have a max team size around 5, so I won't be getting the 14 minions most of the time.
Thanks for your help, I'm going to try and make this work... wish me luck.
[ QUOTE ]
Just a few quick questions, when you say 7% or 17% is that base? or max with ++ enhancements?
[/ QUOTE ]
Its always the base. Keep in mind that the 7% -Damage (Damage Debuff) on Chilling Embrace is not enhanceable as there's no such enhancement (just like there's no -Recharge enhancent) - Slows will only affect -Speed.
[ QUOTE ]
Your the master of EA Q, how would you suggest slotting it now? Mind you I'm not a herder and usally have a max team size around 5, so I won't be getting the 14 minions most of the time.
[/ QUOTE ]
No one will get 14 mobs most of the time anyway. Heck I've herded in excess of 25 mobs and the most I could ever muster was 11 buffs at once. So until they either increase the radius or lower the number of mobs required for a maximum buff, I don't think that's going to change much.
That said, I've got Hasten, and I tried sticking with my 3R/3D slotting that I recommended with Hasten before. But I eventually went with a 4R/2D slotting as it works out slightly better for smaller than 14 mobs., and 1 or both of the DEF slots may change to End. I can't yet say that won't change further
Without Hasten? Get Hasten! No seriously... I'd probably go with a 5R/1D pattern, as that looks best for the DEF vs Recovery tradeoff.
Yeah no hasten here, lol... my goal was to make an Ice tank and take it to 50 without hasten. Almost not worth it now 
I just tried the Croatoa TF with a 6 man team using my Ice Tanker.
We won, but I can saw one thing for sure: I was completely and utterly useless
The team wouldve been better off had they been 5 people without me. I couldn't take the spawns worth crap, and i didn't do decent damage etheir (well, EM secondary, so i did as good as a tanker possibly could, really). all 3 scrappers on the team outtanked me by a pretty good margin, and my character is min/maxed slotted to hell defense wise, and one of the scrappers went into the Teleport pool and such. meh. Well, I figured it would be like that, but it doesn't make me very happy.
Here is my question...I have Wet Ice, six slotted with defense, and grandfathered in. Is it going to be worth it to keep it instead of respeccing out of it? What about when my enhancements grey out, will it be worth it then instead of taking other powers?
[ QUOTE ]
Here is my question...I have Wet Ice, six slotted with defense, and grandfathered in. Is it going to be worth it to keep it instead of respeccing out of it? What about when my enhancements grey out, will it be worth it then instead of taking other powers?
[/ QUOTE ]
Excellent question, and the crux of why the devs just shouldn't have done this. While not being crucial, it is a point that I guarantee players who don't frequent these forums are 100% uninformed on.
Ok... the base 1.1% DEF vs S/L/E/N/F/C for Wet Ice is now unenhanceable.
Each even level SO that happens to already be in there will be providing 0.22% extra. 6SOs are therefore 2.42% total, giving you 1.32% extra DEF.
From there? You have to decide if that extra DEF is worth it.
I like astroturf. It's easy to mow. You guys can't honestly expect straight answers... I mean, really. The answers on the other Dev threads show as much as well as the ones in this one. Not to mention Statesman's lame excuses in his address for nerfing everything. "To make everyone feel loved and happy.... " blah, blah. Okay, so he didn't say that, but he may as well have. They'll never give a straight answer for the nerfs to the defensive sets because there is no valid excuse. They were already considered the weakest sets out there, and now moreso. This after having been told that they would be "looking into" them. It's great to have such compitence "looking into" things for us.
50 Tankers: Ice/EM, Stone/WM, Fire/Stone, Dark/Ice, Inv/SS, Inv/Dark, Elec/Elec
50 Brutes: ElecMelee/EA, WM/Elec