He made the same response in every thread.
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He made the same response in every thread.
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Ah... well then, I expect this thread branch to cease to exist shortly 
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He made the same response in every thread.
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Ah... well then, I expect this thread branch to cease to exist shortly
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Nah, just 4-5 threads before I actually got some work on my desk. Account closes soon, so I need to try to get to 200 1 stars before that happens.
That's it. I've decided after reading through all these posts. I'm going to make my Ice/Stone my main. Call me crazy, call me a masochist, but dammit...I like the concept behind Ice...so what if that's ALL it has going for it right now.
It's gonna be a long road ahead because I almost feel guilty about LFT with an Ice Primary tanker...do you hear that Statesman? I FEEL GUILTY about advertising as a tanker with the Ice Armour primary!! (if that's not an indication of something wrong, I don't know what is)
I just wanna say thanks to everyone who fought so valiantly to try and wedge an icicle of common sense into Statesman's thick skull. Perhaps there is still time to get him to see the glacier for the ice, perhaps not.
So, here's to the debt badges by level 15! Hip hip, hooray!!!
Statesman, could we, at the very least, get some Psi defense outside of EA...3 sheaths of frozen water must do something to block mental energy? I mean, it's a small bone, but at least it's something.
I love my Ice/Stone! She is my main and I have yet to have any serious, game stopping issues with her. Woohoo!
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Statesman, could we, at the very least, get some Psi defense outside of EA...3 sheaths of frozen water must do something to block mental energy? I mean, it's a small bone, but at least it's something.
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You mean at all. EA doesn't offer Psi DEF.
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So what's an Ice Tank's niche again?
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It seems that the only thing we have that's special now is being the only tank that can do end drain. To bad it never works on AV's. 
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Statesman, could we, at the very least, get some Psi defense outside of EA...3 sheaths of frozen water must do something to block mental energy? I mean, it's a small bone, but at least it's something.
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You mean at all. EA doesn't offer Psi DEF.
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Since Ice/ doesn't do anything better than anyone, can we get worse Psy def than Stone? I'll take 75% of it, if you don't mind, Geko.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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Statesman, could we, at the very least, get some Psi defense outside of EA...3 sheaths of frozen water must do something to block mental energy? I mean, it's a small bone, but at least it's something.
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You mean at all. EA doesn't offer Psi DEF.
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Oh yeah, silly me, I forgot myself for a second there and thought we had at least a minor leg up on some of the other tanker sets.
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Oh yeah, silly me, I forgot myself for a second there and thought we had at least a minor leg up on some of the other tanker sets.
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Ice's niche is "anything I can do, someone else can do better."
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Oh yeah, silly me, I forgot myself for a second there and thought we had at least a minor leg up on some of the other tanker sets.
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Ice's niche is "anything I can do, someone else can do better."
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Oh I dunno, we faceplant pretty good...better than average I'd say! I dunno about you, but sometimes keeping an eye on that wily floor for signs of danger helps out the team...right?...RIGHT?!?
I GOT IT!
Whenever we faceplant, our toggle armours melt across the floor creating a controller sized Ice Slick. At least that way, our constant falling down will do something for the team.
"The only tanker that'll tank better AFTER we faceplant!"
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Oh yeah, silly me, I forgot myself for a second there and thought we had at least a minor leg up on some of the other tanker sets.
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Ice's niche is "anything I can do, someone else can do better."
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Oh I dunno, we faceplant pretty good...better than average I'd say! I dunno about you, but sometimes keeping an eye on that wily floor for signs of danger helps out the team...right?...RIGHT?!?
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Actually, we are the loudest tank there is too. When others are all stuck-up about being able to do this or that better than us, i just listen to the dull drone of my powers and find that it makes me feel better... much, much better.
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Oh yeah, silly me, I forgot myself for a second there and thought we had at least a minor leg up on some of the other tanker sets.
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Ice's niche is "anything I can do, someone else can do better."
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Oh I dunno, we faceplant pretty good...better than average I'd say! I dunno about you, but sometimes keeping an eye on that wily floor for signs of danger helps out the team...right?...RIGHT?!?
I GOT IT!
Whenever we faceplant, our toggle armours melt across the floor creating a controller sized Ice Slick. At least that way, our constant falling down will do something for the team.
"The only tanker that'll tank better AFTER we faceplant!"
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Well, no argument that ice tankers are good at it, but blasters can faceplant better than we do, and Fire tankers can tank better than us after they faceplant.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
So I dunno if it's ever been suggested before, or even if it would be feasible. But change EA into a pulse toggle a la Invincibility and/or PBAoE damage auras.
Have it provide a static +def per mob in range like Invincibility. This would eliminate some of the problems I see that EA has: surviving long enough to use it, choosing an appropriate time to use it, hopefully not right before a patrol rounds the corner, and having it actually provide defense ALL the time without having to rely on perma-hasten or a boat load of recharge reducers.
In addition, add a pulse effect that drains a bit of end from the enemies in the radius and adds a bit to the users end bar. This effect would be enhanceable. The benefits here are that it could be used to effectively lock down some of the mobs in the radius from using big attacks in a long battle as it's a constant end drain, as opposed to a one shot deal until it recharges. Have the +end be enough to make it useful, but not so much to overdo it. Maybe have it even out at a zero sum around 2-3 enemies, after that have it be a positive net gain.
Yeah, it might be overpowered, and yes, it's yet another toggle. In addition we'd lose the ability to stack the +defense as well, which I'd counter by just increasing the static +def per mob a bit. But I dunno, EA has always rubbed me the wrong way to some extent simply because it's a click power that in many cases is the lynchpin in our defenses, and especially now in I5.
Oh well, time to wake up and stop dreaming. Heh.
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So I dunno if it's ever been suggested before, or even if it would be feasible. But change EA into a pulse toggle a la Invincibility and/or PBAoE damage auras.
Have it provide a static +def per mob in range like Invincibility. This would eliminate some of the problems I see that EA has: surviving long enough to use it, choosing an appropriate time to use it, hopefully not right before a patrol rounds the corner, and having it actually provide defense ALL the time without having to rely on perma-hasten or a boat load of recharge reducers.
In addition, add a pulse effect that drains a bit of end from the enemies in the radius and adds a bit to the users end bar. This effect would be enhanceable. The benefits here are that it could be used to effectively lock down some of the mobs in the radius from using big attacks in a long battle as it's a constant end drain, as opposed to a one shot deal until it recharges. Have the +end be enough to make it useful, but not so much to overdo it. Maybe have it even out at a zero sum around 2-3 enemies, after that have it be a positive net gain.
Yeah, it might be overpowered, and yes, it's yet another toggle. In addition we'd lose the ability to stack the +defense as well, which I'd counter by just increasing the static +def per mob a bit. But I dunno, EA has always rubbed me the wrong way to some extent simply because it's a click power that in many cases is the lynchpin in our defenses, and especially now in I5.
Oh well, time to wake up and stop dreaming. Heh.
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Intersting idea. It at least deserves debate.
You pointed out one of the biggest flaws for making it a toggle: you won't be able to stack it. I think we all know that if the Devs made it a toggle they would not let us use the stacked defense value of current EA to determine the static defense of the toggle. They would most likely just keep the 0.5 value and that scares me. Without stacking EA is now a sad, sorry little power when it comes to defense.
Another strike against the idea is that it takes away choice. In general I think it's a good idea (and more "fun") to let players make the choice of when to activate powers. I really don't want to see another "click and forget" power in Ice/, or any other set.
Having said that, I think your idea would help solve some of the problems EA has. And it would certainly make life easier on us. Hmm...something to think about.
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Intersting idea. It at least deserves debate.
You pointed out one of the biggest flaws for making it a toggle: you won't be able to stack it. I think we all know that if the Devs made it a toggle they would not let us use the stacked defense value of current EA to determine the static defense of the toggle. They would most likely just keep the 0.5 value and that scares me. Without stacking EA is now a sad, sorry little power when it comes to defense.
Another strike against the idea is that it takes away choice. In general I think it's a good idea (and more "fun") to let players make the choice of when to activate powers. I really don't want to see another "click and forget" power in Ice/, or any other set.
Having said that, I think your idea would help solve some of the problems EA has. And it would certainly make life easier on us. Hmm...something to think about.
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Yeah well, personally I think if they did even contemplate something like this, I would hope it would get bumped up to be at least on par with Invincibility (which is what?..1.5 melee, and 0.75 ranged?). Then instead of the tohit bonus we'd get the extra end recharge and end drain. I know this would never happen after reading Statesman's infuriating dissertation on why, in theory (does theory ever shake hands with reality?), defense is better than resistance.
Yeah, I know it eliminates choice. However, sometimes choices like those that EA makes you make are not terribly fun. In many instances, EA never actually gave me a choice. It generally boiled (froze?) down to "come on you stupid power FIRE off already!!" As I inevitably CHOSE (HAD?) to use it almost every encounter anyway in order to keep myself alive after the alpha strike knocked me into next week: it would get fired off immediately and then whenever it was up again. That, to me, wasn't much of a choice, merely more micro-managing to ensure I could actually tank.
I'd turn this into a toggle, and rework (read change altogether into something other than a PBAoE) icicles into another click power that would do something useful, turn it into some form of ablative smash/lethal resistance or something. Heh.
Ah well, pipe dreaming at work. Good times, good times.
I am sorry to say - I used your i5 respec on my 28 ice tank today - no sense wasting a valuable character slot..
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I am sorry to say - I used your i5 respec on my 28 ice tank today - no sense wasting a valuable character slot..
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You should be.
My respec is tongue-in-cheek, although bitterly so. Also, it's something I wouldn't do unless ice tankers go live in their current state and the devs let them sit that way for a month or so without going, "you know, maybe those forum posters had a clue when they said it SUCKED."
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
I'm having a very hard time accepting the accuracy of AVs on test. As of 7/28/05 archvillian accuracy was lowered from "90% to 75%".
Let's assume that this 75% is static--which I do not believe it to be--to all AVs. The highest amount of static defense an Ice tank can get is around 40% (17% from Frozen or Glacial with 6 SOs is approx 37.4%. Add to that 2% from Wet Ice and you get 39.4%) So the approximate chance for an AV to hit you in I5 is 35.6%. ... greater than 1/3 of the time.
Fighting Infernal (yet again) yesterday he (of course) hit me for the following numbers in the space of 5 attacks. 900 lethal damage...1000 lethal damage...1100 lethal damage. Naturally I died seeing as I only have 2800 health at level 50 (with Hoarfrost and the +10% health accolade). Oh, and this doesn't include the additional fire damage he caused AND the fact that I WAS running Tough (6 slotted dmgresist).
States, is this really what you intend for I5? Villians who can hit for over 1000 (even whith Tough) and who have a 1/3 chance to hit?
Let me assure you, this is not an isolated event.
Fellow Ice tanks, after many hours on test, I really think we need to make AVs our number one gripe to the Devs.
As an Ice tank in I5, you must herd minions to the AV in order to have any chance or survival... And even then you will find that until EA stacks with itself, you are gonna be hurting (and even when it stacks you're still playing the dice). Am I the only one who finds it really silly to design an entire set and serious of encounters this way?
"But Robot Lawyer, that's what defenders and controllers are there for...to fill the gaps in your defense".
Wrong...that's what "some" controllers and defenders are there for. As I mentioned, I have been running AV battles on test with many different groups. And lacking the appropriate combination of players is now devastating. Regardless, this isnt the point.
The point is my previous question. States, do you really find acceptable a villians who consistantly hits for 1000+ and has a greater than 1/3 chance to hit?
My recommendation to fellow Ice tanks: If I5 goes live as is, the absolute best way to fight AVs is to max out on purple inspirations. I've found 9-15 lucks is far better and has a greater chance of success than any power you have or combination of players. (no I'm not joking or overstating to make my point). Use three at a time and bring blasters with you. If hes not defeated before you run out Luck, you're screwed. Of course, you could just spam the chat channels until you get the right defender/controller.
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My recommendation to fellow Ice tanks: If I5 goes live as is, the absolute best way to fight AVs is to max out on purple inspirations.
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I disagree. The "absolute best way" is to just find another Tank. Even an SKed non-Ice will do better.
This is good that the Ice tankers are finally getting some acknowledgement. I've always thought of it wierd that a Fire or ill/FF controller can tank and kill better than an Ice tanker cuz he gets alot more def and way more resistance staying in his Personal force field and letting his imps/phants do all the work. IMO Ice tankers need a bit more resistance to all, say 25% -psi but def to psi.
And its also nice to know Ice tanks are getting alot of Slow resistance. I still remember how wonderfull that felt when Unstoppable in the Invulnerable line had slow resistance back in Issue 1, but due to a bug that stopped buffs like hasten to effect the tank while he used Unstoppabble, the devs had to "fixed" it for I2.(I hope it hasn't been bugged since I2, and was ment to have slow resistance) When we got our Unstoppable back, it no longer had resistance to slows. It no longer fit the theme or name Unstoppable since many enemies at higher lvls like Circle of Thorns, Blades of Artemis, Paragon Protectors, etc. stop u dead in ur tracks. I wish they can give us that slow resistance back into Unstoppable; that's the least we deserve since everyone is wondering what positives came out of Inv's major nerf.
Hey do you Ice tanks ever get slowed beyond recognition?? I really like to know, cuz i might just pick up an Ice tank if you guys are fully resistant to slows.
we do have resistance to slow but unless u slot it it only helps a tiny bit, Thats what hasten is for anyway, so i don't slot it.
Yeah. I get passed over for teams NOW. On live. Why should this change any when issue 5 goes live, especially when you're going to need two defender/controllers JUST to keep the ice tank alive. And perhaps more for other people on the team.
The only way they're going to do anything for ice tankers is by pushing this abomination live and seeing just how disproportionately worse ice tankers perform compared to others tankers. Or other scrappers.
Since my regen scrapper can out-tank my ice tanker on test now, not to mention live through much hairier situations. Of course, instead of fixing ice tankers, this'll just lead to even more nerfs for regen in issue 6.
Hyperbole? I don't think so. It doesn't matter if you can grab all the aggro if you fold like a house of cards whenever the bad guys actually attack you. My scrapper heals fast and gets more melee defense than my icer with PARRY.
That's so BALANCED I think Jack needs a new dictionary.
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Hyperbole? I don't think so. It doesn't matter if you can grab all the aggro if you fold like a house of cards whenever the bad guys actually attack you. My scrapper heals fast and gets more melee defense than my icer with PARRY.
That's so BALANCED I think Jack needs a new dictionary.
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It's not hyperbole. My dark/dark scrapper can survive spawns that will murder my ice/stone tanker. Regen can survive those spawns too, as can Invuln. SR running Elude has a good chance, but I can't hit enough defense to floor what I'm fighting before they tear me down to red. With two spawns on unyielding, this happens so fast, I barely have time to: EA -> Hibernate.
As I said before, though, I can survive pretty well if I use lucks before such a fight.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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I would like to use my 1 post to say...nothing..thats all...I just can't fathom a game changing this much after release....you should have just released CoH2 and said that CoH was dead.
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This is not a dev response thread, CuppaJo has said so to me in a PM, so feel free to respond even more.