[ QUOTE ]
umm those TF's havent been around for 18 months, for the shard TF's there is a level requirement to get in the shard..
Limit the parameters to L40+ toons and only from the date of release of the shadow shard onwards.
Auto award the TF badge to anyone that has the souveneer and eliminate that toon for that particular search.
work smarter not harder..
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you really think that all those parameters are indexed? I seriously doubt it. That means every record has to be checked against those parameters, right?
You have no knowledge of how their data is stored. Your glib "advice" is less than useless. "Work smarter, not harder" has the stink of ignorance all over it. Don't make the situation worse.
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Posi, thanks for getting back to us on this with a reply. But why do I have the Shadow Shard Badges on Test right now when I did them 2 months ago?
lvl 50 Energy Blaster
Protecting the Galaxy, one planet at a time......
@Capt Omega
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well get cracking, I can wait 3 months, heck I'll even wait 2 years, because I am not doing those Shadow Shard TF again. It would seem to me that you guys should have thought this out. If you planned on giving out badges for these TF, why didnt you guys do it when the TF's when live?
Plus I have all the time and dates I finished my TF's, with the name of each team memeber so it should not be to hard to verify that info. So expect a petition from me. 
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks Positron. I'm not happy, but at least I understand now. Nonetheless, an explanation like this helps us out a lot in terms of dealing with the issue.
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why look at datamining then? A number of TFs have at one point or another awarded Souviners. At the very least do a character sweep, and check each TF vs each character and if they have the Souviner for a TF then award the corresponding badge. Simple, elegant, done. Perfect? No. Better than what we're being told? Yes.
Hehe, I bet you could get Kali to agree to that, 
[ QUOTE ]
Also - after much pushing and shoving - we were told that there will NOT be data mining for TF badges. So if you did a TF before I5 - when I5 goes live you will not get a badge for it auto-magically.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't get this - so are you saying that all of our earned Task Force badges are going away in I5? If so, that sort of boggles me - aren't badges saved on the characters?
Hey knock a couple of indoors off of the "grindy" TFs and I am a happy man. Doing months of holding up our good new content for some data mining is no fun, I am not upset. I still need most of the TFs for my main anyway. Oh and help us by giving more consistent spawns for "badge-giving" creatures of all kinds (hunting masks with 9 heroes, in two city blocks, and only at night isn't fun).
Drat, foiled again!
I don't suppose a distributed computing deal could be cooked up? Break up the data into one-hour intervals and have desktops and/or non-production game servers chew on them after hours? (The datamine could get done REAL fast if it was sent out to customers' computers but that would open up hacking possibilities.)
P.S. Ummm, Dev response thread? Are those rules still in effect?
While I don't like certain aspects of the developers behavior, I really don't see what the gripe is with this one. Was there any mention of a future badge for doing these TF's back in the day? If so, that's one thing. If not, then what is your point? If they never awarded a badge for doing this mission in the past and never said that they would, then why would anyone expect one when you did it in the past. Yes, I'm a badge w-hore and I wish I could get Isolator with my 50, but I missed it. That is the only badge that I can see anyone really getting annoyed with, because you can never go back and get it. These new TF badges are just that, NEW! Just my thoughts. I probably should keep them to myself, but the voices in my head hurt when I do.
[ QUOTE ]
You know, as hurt as I have been over the performance and command level descisions as of late, this really takes the cake.
Most badges are nothing but time takers, and serve no purpose other than to make players wait. Taskforces take several hours for no other purpose than to make them longer so more people cannot complete them.
Monster Badges - Could have a designated spawn, where you complete a set of tasks for a zone, and your team gets the monster spawn - Inside of a door mission. Couldn't do that though, that's too easy. That lets too many people get badges.
Monsters spawning regularly to give people badges? Oh can't be that catering to the public. You can't give us what WE want now can you?
Character Badges - Your expectations exclude all but the most rabid fanboys. Let me give you a few examples.
Immortal - Take 1,000,000,000 Damage You are truly Immortal. You have survived one billion points of damage.
Jailed Guess: 100 hours of being held Enemies no longer regard you as a threat.
Now is there any reason for both of those to be as high as they are? No. The only reason is to get people to play a few months longer to get 2 badges with no practical purpose.
You want us to work hard for badges? You want to make us work for badges? Fine, give the badges rewards attached to them. How about every 10 Exploration badges you get you recieve +100 health? How about every 3 Mission Badges you get you get +100 endurance? How about for each Taskforce given by a Hero; Numina, Positron, Synapse, Sister Psyche, etc, you are give +1 power or 2 enhancement slots. No?
How about you make Accolades worth the effort? How about the Crey Pistol actually be effective in combat with equal enemies, worth using. Couldn't do that apparently.
You don't want people to be unhappy with badges? Then quit taking the fun out of them. Stop taking the fun out of everything. I didn't start playing to get the Carrot and the Stick treatment. Stop telling people what they should consider fun and start asking them what they want as fun.
Just so you know, I hate Tyrants...we have enough of them in our world telling us what we should do. Did we start this game for us to have fun? I guess not. We have no one in our corner, we have no voice, we make no desicisions and I'm getting really really fed up with it.
At this rate you might as well take away all the badges, make the level cap level 35, remove stamina as a power, and set the defense cap for everyone at 2%. As far as I'm concerned the developers can take their idea of fun and....
[Censored for the decency of minors, senior citizens, pregnant women, small people, minor household kitchen gadgets, and anyone else with a pulse. Please ignore this flaming volley of profanities and continue with your normally scheduled program]
....grrr...I get so sick of this. I didn't pay for this abuse. If I want to pay for abuse I'll join something like Matrix Online, or call somewhere I can pay $4.95 per minute.
No offense to any City of Heroes fans, only to the Tyrants establishing policy in the name of 'Fun'.
[/ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind that regardless of what the propaganda rag (comic book) says, it wasn't Lord Recluse that took away our powers... It was Statesman.
Given that context, it's not that surprising. But yeah, I agree... this is low even for Cryptic.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for the response, and the reasoning behind it. People may not be "happy" about it, but I think they'll be reasonable about it, and understand that it's the way it has to be.
2 years of brute force is not a solution to persue. I wouldn't wish that on the Devs.
Keep up the feedback!
[ QUOTE ]
Some people asked me to post this as well -
You will not be able to /petition to get these badges if you completed the TF before I5. So please do not flood the GMs with /petitions trying to get the badges. They can NOT award them.
[/ QUOTE ]
If the patch notes also make note that there will not be any data mining, I'd make a note of this as well as that way more people will see it; assuming that more people read the patch notes than the forums.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
umm those TF's havent been around for 18 months, for the shard TF's there is a level requirement to get in the shard..
Limit the parameters to L40+ toons and only from the date of release of the shadow shard onwards.
Auto award the TF badge to anyone that has the souveneer and eliminate that toon for that particular search.
work smarter not harder..
[/ QUOTE ]
By "more effecient solution" I'd guess that they considered factors like those.
And, in general, while it's nice for people to offer various solutions to this problem, but I'd wager that most, if not all, of the people offering these solutions do not know how Cryptic organizes their data nor how it is actually stored. Without knowing this, someone can't really say how it would be best to search through it all.
On top of that, assuming that the query can be automated, if it made any logical sense to do so, I'd imagine that the devs would go ahead and do the data mine. They certainly have nothing to gain but headaches by not doing it.
I've got TFs now I have to re-do too if I want the badges, but I think I'll be able to get to it a bit faster than two years from now.
Hey Pos,
Thanks for dropping a line...though as some have mentioned, a little info in Cuppa's hands would have saved her the grief. She is just the messenger and protects you guys from a lot...you are lucky to have her
That being said:
[ QUOTE ]
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
I find these kind of numbers hard to fathom unless you are using Microsoft Access as a database (and I am pretty sure you are not). 
Seriously, working with db's as I do, make an archive of pre-I5, query against that and make your list (basically extract the result set to a view and then store it in another table). Then, post-I5, dump the temp set back into the main db (well, a back up to make sure). Re-query and compare the new db to the old to check for errors and voila. Now the process would change ever so slightly depending on said db, but the theory is the same regardless.
This will not necessarily be the easy route (well, the easy route is saying "sorry, can't do it" 
) but would sure not take the time estimates that you are posting. If it would then you either have really bad hardware, processes, or db admins.
note: I am not a badge hunter and this does not affect me either way but it always bothers me when a reason is posted and people that normally don't work with said technology go "oh, that makes it ok". It doesn't...people are getting ripped off for their time and effort.
As my statistics prof used to say "stats can be made to say anything you want them to".
GadgetDon said
[ QUOTE ]
If CuppaJo had specifics like that to be given out with the first announcement, a lot of angst would be avoided.
[/ QUOTE ]
/signed Back off the messenger folks.
Be well, people of CoH.
[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: Also want to throw my support to those suggesting the badges for TF's be reworked somehow to include the story text. A better way of presenting the story to all the players while the TF is happening would be welcome, too.
[/ QUOTE ]
One very convenient way of doing it would be to add a new chat channel (like local, combat, system, etc) that contained new mission breafings and clues for your entire team.
Normally I only do constructive posts but....
Having to do Explorers and Exploiters again - that hurts!!
This decision sucks!!
It's a matter of manpower eh? So our time spent doing these
taskforces is less worth than your time datamining for it?
Since our time earns you money - but your time costs you money that does make sense in a depressing kind of way.
--- constructive edit ---
Well... how about just datamining the last 3 months of data or so, so alle the people that did these lately knowing badge would come, won't get hurt! (Won't help me - but it'll be something at least)
//AtCbM// www.crystalblue.dk
Victory - Mare,Dagger of Pain,Keep,Hogun and Bloodpetal
The Keep-Arcs: 164260, 188373, 192610, 196090 and funny side-chapter 218575.
Mender-Arc: 266163
[ QUOTE ]
I find these kind of numbers hard to fathom unless you are using Microsoft Access as a database (and I am pretty sure you are not).
Seriously, working with db's as I do, make an archive of pre-I5, query against that and make your list (basically extract the result set to a view and then store it in another table). Then, post-I5, dump the temp set back into the main db (well, a back up to make sure). Re-query and compare the new db to the old to check for errors and voila. Now the process would change ever so slightly depending on said db, but the theory is the same regardless.
This will not necessarily be the easy route (well, the easy route is saying "sorry, can't do it" ) but would sure not take the time estimates that you are posting. If it would then you either have really bad hardware, processes, or db admins.
note: I am not a badge hunter and this does not affect me either way but it always bothers me when a reason is posted and people that normally don't work with said technology go "oh, that makes it ok". It doesn't...people are getting ripped off for their time and effort.
As my statistics prof used to say "stats can be made to say anything you want them to".
[/ QUOTE ]
It may not be a matter of just asking the right SQL question. To grab a possible explanation from thin air: Imagine if such a datamine required you to physically restore 18 months of daily database backups, or something like that. How long time does it take to do 540 total database dump/restores for each server? Without impacting normal operations?
I'm not suggesting that the system is set up in this manner. I'm suggesting that there may be factors like this that we don't know about...
[ QUOTE ]
Also - after much pushing and shoving - we were told that there will NOT be data mining for TF badges. So if you did a TF before I5 - when I5 goes live you will not get a badge for it auto-magically.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is BS, Some of us SPENT HOURS 10 hours or more doing Fire Base ZUlu TFs, WE GOT NO souvenirs, no nothing, and now YOU WANT us to do it again? geez Come on...
Y'know what, this has gone too far. If you're bashing devs over the fact they're not willing to go over 18 months worth of data to give you a line of text and a picture for a task force you weren't expecting a line of text and a picture for in the first place, then chances are you're just looking for things to bash them with.
I've constantly heard the phrase 'The devs have lost the love for the game'. Seems more like a small minority are constantly throwing fits about the smallest things just for the hell of it.
Getting pissed because they nerfed a power you used a lot I can understand, but throwing fits at the devs for something as minor as *this*. For god's sake, get some perspective already.
I love the badges, then we have some use of our lv 50 chars. I wounder how many badges there are before I5 goes live? I have about 75 badges now but only 10 explore badges.
Why 1 billin hitpoints, we are never gonna make that. it would take about 3 years, i dont think i am playing this game in 3 years, then whats the point of 1 billion , 100 million is much better. How about the badge bare it shows you how many kills you have left, why not just a number then we dont have to look in the forums to se how many we need total, would be much easier 
A bagde for every TF would be nice. We could have a badge contact maybe like a city rep. Told us where to go and what to do to get accolades.
Are there any places i can find a list of the badges?
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ty Posi For a more detailed explanation while you guys weren't doing it.
So, I was wondering how the DAmage taken/Health Healed/Mezed/Influence badges work? DO they work the same as the TF badges? or is that work in a diffrent way, because I dont want to waste time trying to get a head start and then find out I have to statr all over in i5.
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
[/ QUOTE ]
And you still never awarded me your TF badge. I had to spend another five hours (once auto-exemp was finally put in and working properly) running around Paragon picking up your laundry, again, to get it. That was over eight months later. So I guess you missed some, huh?
Thank God I:
(1) only recently reached the Shadow Shard; and
(2) had already read the horror stories about the mind-numbingly long, badge-less TFs to be found therein.
Coupled with the incredibly wrong-headed decision to take TF souvenirs out of the game rather than making them work again for everyone (and to say nothing of the I5 nerfs), I have to wonder why you expect us to endure any of this "content."
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
You guys better get cracking then.
Two kids now = no more extremely lengthy TFs for me. (well that and the wife complaining after EVERY single one)