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I'd like my Calvin Scott badge...
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[censored] man, four characters did that TF and only one got the sov. for it. Petitioned for all four, gm's could only gave it for one.
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
I agree that there are a lot of things that could be going on other than 'the right SQL' but to sit there and say it would take them 2 years....ummm, no I don't buy that (unless they are using paper and pen to individually mark off who has what). I think it is a ploy to point the finger elsewhere and defuse the heat.
They could also be doing this 'offline' to not affect normal operations (and yes, this also might not be possible as we don't have any information concerning their systems 
)
I think they have made a great game and that they put a lot into it (coding, etc) but, unfortunately, the devs on many responses in the forums have been 'questionable' at best.
It's a shame though for all of those that put all that time into something and have it vanish in a heartbeat 
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Also - after much pushing and shoving - we were told that there will NOT be data mining for TF badges. So if you did a TF before I5 - when I5 goes live you will not get a badge for it auto-magically.
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This is BS, Some of us SPENT HOURS 10 hours or more doing Fire Base ZUlu TFs, WE GOT NO souvenirs, no nothing, and now YOU WANT us to do it again? geez Come on...
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They don't want to make you do it again. If you wish to do gain the new reward, being a badge, then you choose to do the TF. Either the badge is worth enough to you to do the task force again, or it isn't worth it for you to get.
But either way, you are choosing your course of actions. "But Pez, I want the badge, and I did it already, so they're making me do it again. If they just datamine it when I did it already, and I spent 10 hours on it...."
Well, you've done it once. You know which missions can be passed through easier, what to expect, and so on and so forth. Make the team at 8, then drop 4 so you and 3 of your friends can do the TF faster. Smaller team size, smaller spawn size, faster mission.
But the devs are not holding a gun to your head making you run to Dr. Quarterfield. It is your own desire or want to get all the badges, nothing more. If it is that important to you, you'll go out and run it again, even if you have to multiplay a few days. But if the pain of doing the TF is greater then your desire to have the badge, you just won't run it, plain and simple. The devs just give you options, you make the choices.
Arc #345863 - When The Bough Breaks
"Curse you Perry the Plata...wait, is that Love Handel?" - Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz, Phineas and Ferb
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Also - after much pushing and shoving - we were told that there will NOT be data mining for TF badges. So if you did a TF before I5 - when I5 goes live you will not get a badge for it auto-magically.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have read this thread and I am not sure I understand it.
Does this mean that when I5 goes live my Task Force badges are going to be wiped?
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...please do not flood the GMs with /petitions trying to get the badges. They can NOT award them.
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Can you give technical details behind why a GM cannot award a player a badge on /petition?
I understand why datamining to verify that a player has earned a badge would be a challenge, as has been mentioned, but this in no way explains why a GM can't simply reward the badge on petition.
You see, you guys are the ones who dropped the ball on this one. You did. Not the players. There are players in your game that are entitled to receive an item that, due to a problem with your game design, were mistakenly left out of the receipt of such a reward.
You have created a player feedback system for this very purpose.... /petition. This system allows players to notify GMs that something has gone awry, and, if it is relatively simple to do, the GMs correct the issue.
By rewarding a badge to anyone that /petitons with the claim to have been left out of the badge obviously opens up the possibility that certain petitioners will be falsely rewarded. However, to this I say, so what? It's just a badge. It is nothing more than a sign of accomplishment.
In fairness, it is better to give players that have earned the badge the opportunity to receive it with the possibility of minor player abuse than for those unfortunate players to be abused by the game and to be stuck with it.
Of course the best solution, if it were practical, would be to have every player have badges if and only if they've earned them. But, as you state, since this cannot occur, it's better to err on the side of allowing players the rewards they are entitled to.
Sorry for the 2nd post.
Bjork
You current Badges will stay have no fear.
This discussion is about the 5 new TF badges (moonfire and the 4 Shard TF's)
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Why didn't you tell us the TF's would probably not be datamineable?
A pre TF disclaimer would have been enough.
You have the Ability to award individual players badges. Don't lie to us. GM's CAN award badges.
Compensate me for my time. I demand satisfaction. Work with me until I am satisfied just as Any respectable business would. Start offering your unhappy customers something, this is your mistake not hours.
Give me the 4 new badges for all TF's until you have the ability to prove that I did NOT complete the TF's.
And don't tell me that this is "Just a badge" Items in other games that take similar amounts of time to acquire sell for hundreds on e bay or in game auctions. The badges are Very valuable to me.
I demand satisfaction, that is all.
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/signed
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...please do not flood the GMs with /petitions trying to get the badges. They can NOT award them.
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Can you give technical details behind why a GM cannot award a player a badge on /petition?
I understand why datamining to verify that a player has earned a badge would be a challenge, as has been mentioned, but this in no way explains why a GM can't simply reward the badge on petition.
You see, you guys are the ones who dropped the ball on this one. You did. Not the players. There are players in your game that are entitled to receive an item that, due to a problem with your game design, were mistakenly left out of the receipt of such a reward.
You have created a player feedback system for this very purpose.... /petition. This system allows players to notify GMs that something has gone awry, and, if it is relatively simple to do, the GMs correct the issue.
By rewarding a badge to anyone that /petitons with the claim to have been left out of the badge obviously opens up the possibility that certain petitioners will be falsely rewarded. However, to this I say, so what? It's just a badge. It is nothing more than a sign of accomplishment.
In fairness, it is better to give players that have earned the badge the opportunity to receive it with the possibility of minor player abuse than for those unfortunate players to be abused by the game and to be stuck with it.
Of course the best solution, if it were practical, would be to have every player have badges if and only if they've earned them. But, as you state, since this cannot occur, it's better to err on the side of allowing players the rewards they are entitled to.
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Let me second this. Yes, they can do a fast check to make sure they are of the right level (my 8th level tanker petitioning for the Quartermain badge should be rejected).
But either those badges will have no impact on the game, in which case there's no problem with some people getting them falsely, or they will have an impact at some point (unlocking an epic AT), in which case there's no excuse not to datamine.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
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Well a couple of things about your statement:
Shadow Shard TFs did not start until Issue 2 (lowering the 18 month range) & are limited to lvl 40+ characters (greatly lessen what needs to be datamined).
Moonfire TF did not start until Issue 3.
Also I have not seen a response as to why we cannot petition for the badges if we have the specific dates & times they were completed - only that we can't.
Mr E-Man ~ Mr E-Villain
XBL GamerTag: il Radd
What if you have proof of your deserving of said badge, like a souvenir? As I have two from two of the SS TFs, would I be able to contact a GM, have those in my souvenir list and be rewarded with the badge because I have irresputable proof of doing the two TFs?
What about people that may have taken screenshots to prove they did the TFs? I did this on at least three of them just in case the dev's later couldn't verify I had done them with the datamine. I remembered that when I2 went live some people posted they had been awarded the badges by producing screenshots that proved they had done the TF.....
- End is for noobs! - Board quote
But Positron -- if you give a rational explanation, which makes sense, how can they all jump to conclusions and scream about being nerfed and not caring about the community!!! Its not fair if you explain why, how are they to come up with baseless charges of you guys making changes for no reasons and point to this as proof once again ( oh drat its not) !!!
argghr the humanity!!!!!
Police officer: 'Have you any idea how fast you were going back there?'
Werner Heisenberg: 'Nope, but I knew exactly where I was!'
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Posi - Gimme a break.
18 months to datamine? Wrong. I2 is where you start from. Thats what...10 months?
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Even if you very generously assume that the time taken would be halved if you start from I2, that's still going to take a full year to process.
It isn't worth it. Suck it up. Either do the TF again, or don't do it. Your choice. Not a forced decision.
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Second...why are there never resources for things the players want, but always enough to nerf them? It had to take some serious hacking of the system to add clicks that automatically shut off after 30 seconds, but that was worth the effort.
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Geko and I were both surprised to find out that the powers system already DID this, so no extra coding was involved. Trust me. If it involved engineering, we would have found a different solution.
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So, I was wondering how the DAmage taken/Health Healed/Mezed/Influence badges work? DO they work the same as the TF badges? or is that work in a diffrent way, because I dont want to waste time trying to get a head start and then find out I have to statr all over in i5.
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When a new badge goes into the game it begins to start tracking it's requirements for the player. Say we add a "100 Sky Raider Shield Generator" badge in an upcoming issue. Since we never tracked Shield Generators before, it begins tracking it as soon as the update goes up. Previous Sheild Generators are not counted.
But if we, in a later issue, add a "500 Sky Raider Shield Generator" badge, then we would have already been counting the Shield Generators, even beyond 100. So if, when the issue goes live, you had killed 501 Shield Generators, you would be issued the badge upon logging in.
So healing, damage taken, influence earn, debt, etc.... all that stuff is currently being tracked on your characters, so when the new badges go in, you will have a head start on them. No datamine required.
Positron
Follow me on Twitter
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Posi - Gimme a break.
18 months to datamine? Wrong. I2 is where you start from. Thats what...10 months?
[/ QUOTE ]
Even if you very generously assume that the time taken would be halved if you start from I2, that's still going to take a full year to process.
It isn't worth it. Suck it up. Either do the TF again, or don't do it. Your choice. Not a forced decision.
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Uhm it is worth it. SO it takes a year? it will take at least that long to get the new Billion point badges anyway.
I say mine away!
I'm just scratching my head wondering why they didn't have badges created for these TF's when they were first released.
The reason I never did any of these TF's is because there were no badges awarded.
I guest I have a reason to now.
Mr Sweden. 50th Ice/Storm Controller
Mr USA. 50th Fire/Dev Blaster
Mr Iceland 50th Ice/Fire Tanker
Ms Sweden 50th Emp/Psy Defender
Doctor Velocity 50th Rad/Kin Corrupter
Visit Global Heroics
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
How is it that you awarded the kill X badges then when the different issues went live. I'm sure you didn't datamine that. If you track how many of each villain/monster are killed couldn't you just look for the end villain for the TF and award based off that?
I agree 2 years worth of datamining is insane for a badge. But there has to be some other way of doing this rather than forcing those of us that spent the time doing all the tf's to do them over again. Think outside the box here. 
As stated previously, I have done all four Shard TF's and spent 22ish hours doing it.
I also have a degree in mining engineering and have full access to all needed mining equipment.
The Forum Cartel is prepared to undertake the data mining.
--------------------
Currently listening to Rush's Rush in Rio
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
[ QUOTE ]
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Second...why are there never resources for things the players want, but always enough to nerf them? It had to take some serious hacking of the system to add clicks that automatically shut off after 30 seconds, but that was worth the effort.
[/ QUOTE ]
Geko and I were both surprised to find out that the powers system already DID this, so no extra coding was involved. Trust me. If it involved engineering, we would have found a different solution.
[ QUOTE ]
So, I was wondering how the DAmage taken/Health Healed/Mezed/Influence badges work? DO they work the same as the TF badges? or is that work in a diffrent way, because I dont want to waste time trying to get a head start and then find out I have to statr all over in i5.
[/ QUOTE ]
When a new badge goes into the game it begins to start tracking it's requirements for the player. Say we add a "100 Sky Raider Shield Generator" badge in an upcoming issue. Since we never tracked Shield Generators before, it begins tracking it as soon as the update goes up. Previous Sheild Generators are not counted.
But if we, in a later issue, add a "500 Sky Raider Shield Generator" badge, then we would have already been counting the Shield Generators, even beyond 100. So if, when the issue goes live, you had killed 501 Shield Generators, you would be issued the badge upon logging in.
So healing, damage taken, influence earn, debt, etc.... all that stuff is currently being tracked on your characters, so when the new badges go in, you will have a head start on them. No datamine required.
[/ QUOTE ]
And what about the answers to the really tough questions and statements above? With all due respect Positron, of course, can you please tell some of us why :
a) Someone neglected until now to tell us datamining was "impossible"
b) Individual Petitions are "impossible"
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand these gripes... what if the Shard TFs were never intended to award badges of any kind? Ever? What would you complain about then?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, I wouldn't complain.
I also wouldn't have spent 11 hours playing one with no xp awards or drops. There would have been plenty of better (meaning more enjoyable) uses of my play time.
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That you "wasted" all that time playing through a storyline you never read... in hopes that, someday, it might provide you with another lame looking badge that does nothing for you at all?
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I read the entire TF storyline as I did it, and gave the team a sysopsis of the storyline as it progressed - at the request of one of the other members. Your generalization about TF players ignoring the storyline is invalid, at least in our cases. I can't help but wonder how you have concluded that you are in a position of knowledge to draw that conclusion in the first place.
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These TFs are game content. They're stories put together to add flavor and history to the game. Their sole purpose is NOT to provide you with a badge.
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Except that the sole reason I chose to experience this particular content was to earn the badge. That makes its sole purpose, for me, to provide me with a badge.
If it isn't okay for Statesman to tell us how to play the game, why is it okay for you?
I should have stopped paying you as soon as I realized that you were using my money to change the PvE game I love into a PvP game. It was foolish of me to trust you to leave PvE intact.
Of course, another issue:
The initial data mining was for EVERYTHING.
Surely a search for just five specific task forces would go quicker?
--------------------
Currently listening to Rush's Rush in Rio
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm at the introduction of badges, was in issue 2, which came out in september if i am not mistaken. the game went live in april, that was 5 months worth of badges. Now yes the game has been out like 15 months not 18 but wouldnt it stand to reason since you caught up to atleast september, and since then any badage TF has awarded, and no TF was added acept strigas moonfire and hess, oh and that calvin scott one, and those were added in issue 3, that really your talking about datamining from issue 3 in january to present. So like 8 months and only for 3 TFs, unless your finally badging the SS tfs which still again not added until issue 2 so going back to sept and 1 year, not 18 months.
COH has long herald itself as a game for casual players. Well as what i consider a casual team player in that i play mostly at night, if i get on line during the day for a TF and spend 5 hours completing it, that is a rare luxary. Andnow i wont get reward for it. Nice is all i have to say. I guess at some point not only did the VISION not include multi spawning pets, herding (though powers increase in effectivness as you do), perma click powers, good aoes, good holds, good defense, an useful blaster inherent power, level 50 cotent..... lets see what am i missing? Point being seems like we players are taking alot of changes for the benefit of living out you alls VISION, how bout cutting us some slack and actually doing something for us for a change. And no the current idea of "balancing" is not for us. Its for your ideas to how we should play not how we want to play. But if we live with it, we dont even get credit for the things we did take part in is kinda, i dont know, craptastic to say the least.
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You know... you got me thinking about that. Issue 2 didn't hit Live until the end of Aug 04 to the beginning of Sept 04. Issue 2 is when the Shadow Shard was put in-game as well.
So they aren't having to go back over 18 months of CoH. They only have to go over 12 months. I also cannot understand why it would take so long to go through the databases. Databases are made for data storage and recovery. They are MADE for queries like this. It's the whole reason to USE a database.
To me, this is just another thing that makes me wonder about the skill level of some of the people working at Cryptic. Amateurish things like simply amaze me especially given the number of years that MMORPGs have been around and lessons learned from them.
These sorts of things make me wonder if they'll be properly managing CoV when it finally goes live.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
The phase shift nerf is slightly less offensive once we learn it was "easy", but will we ever get a dev response thread or comment about WHY the phase shift nerf is necessary in PvE?
Positron, I get the impression that you're a tech type guy, I am to, but in the planning missions does the thought "You know, we're pissing off a lot of paying customers" come up in these discussions?
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
I still want to know why I have these badges on Test and I won't have them on Live servers when Issue 5 hits, if Datamining is not available for these badges.
lvl 50 Energy Blaster
Protecting the Galaxy, one planet at a time......
@Capt Omega
[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you tell us the TF's would probably not be datamineable?
A pre TF disclaimer would have been enough.
You have the Ability to award individual players badges. Don't lie to us. GM's CAN award badges.
Compensate me for my time. I demand satisfaction. Work with me until I am satisfied just as Any respectable business would. Start offering your unhappy customers something, this is your mistake not hours.
Give me the 4 new badges for all TF's until you have the ability to prove that I did NOT complete the TF's.
And don't tell me that this is "Just a badge" Items in other games that take similar amounts of time to acquire sell for hundreds on e bay or in game auctions. The badges are Very valuable to me.
I demand satisfaction, that is all.
[/ QUOTE ]
-quoted for empasis.....I AGREE!!!!!
Posi - Gimme a break.
18 months to datamine? Wrong. I2 is where you start from. Thats what...10 months?
You rerally COULD have said something before hand. Your development team should have forseen this. It totally impossible that you woke up this morning and said "Hey...if we want those badges..its gonna take 18 months to do" by checking one of your computer screens.
Your product is great...your customer service stinks. (No offence Cuppa....I know its your job to deliver the news, not try and fix it.)
Posi - Come on buddy. The people who read the excuses are just as old, if not older than you, and we've been taken for a few rides in our lives, so we can see through the front page stories. We're not the 5 year old kid in the candy store that just got screwed out of an extra quarter by the unscrupulous owner, so PLEASE stop feeding us this garbage.
And I forgot why I stopped posting on this board....