[ QUOTE ]
If it isn't okay for Statesman to tell us how to play the game, why is it okay for you?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is Gold! I may quote you in the future!
[ QUOTE ]
So they aren't having to go back over 18 months of CoH. They only have to go over 12 months. I also cannot understand why it would take so long to go through the databases. Databases are made for data storage and recovery. They are MADE for queries like this. It's the whole reason to USE a database.
[/ QUOTE ]
What if the information they are sorting through isn't even in a database? And if it is in a database how many entries do you think are in the database? It seems not so much as a problem about actually finding the items in question but how many compute cycles it will take to find them.
[ QUOTE ]
When a new badge goes into the game it begins to start tracking it's requirements for the player. Say we add a "100 Sky Raider Shield Generator" badge in an upcoming issue. Since we never tracked Shield Generators before, it begins tracking it as soon as the update goes up. Previous Sheild Generators are not counted.
But if we, in a later issue, add a "500 Sky Raider Shield Generator" badge, then we would have already been counting the Shield Generators, even beyond 100. So if, when the issue goes live, you had killed 501 Shield Generators, you would be issued the badge upon logging in.
So healing, damage taken, influence earn, debt, etc.... all that stuff is currently being tracked on your characters, so when the new badges go in, you will have a head start on them. No datamine required.
[/ QUOTE ]
Odd that doesn't fit with the TaskForces Badges. You already reward badges for TFs, so shouldnt there be something in the system that tracks and marks a character that completed XXX TaskForce if it was already done?
If there is nothing that tags a character that completed a TF when the badge is not working, I think there should be.
[ QUOTE ]
I still want to know why I have these badges on Test and I won't have them on Live servers when Issue 5 hits, if Datamining is not available for these badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ohhh..this is a good question actually....Posi?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When a new badge goes into the game it begins to start tracking it's requirements for the player. Say we add a "100 Sky Raider Shield Generator" badge in an upcoming issue. Since we never tracked Shield Generators before, it begins tracking it as soon as the update goes up. Previous Sheild Generators are not counted.
But if we, in a later issue, add a "500 Sky Raider Shield Generator" badge, then we would have already been counting the Shield Generators, even beyond 100. So if, when the issue goes live, you had killed 501 Shield Generators, you would be issued the badge upon logging in.
So healing, damage taken, influence earn, debt, etc.... all that stuff is currently being tracked on your characters, so when the new badges go in, you will have a head start on them. No datamine required.
[/ QUOTE ]
Odd that doesn't fit with the TaskForces Badges. You already reward badges for TFs, so shouldnt there be something in the system that tracks and marks a character that completed XXX TaskForce if it was already done?
If there is nothing the tags a character that completed a TF when the badge is not working, I think there should be.
[/ QUOTE ]
And if there isn't, there DAMN WELL SHOULD BE.
You devs are constantly going to have to fight this battle UNLESS you do something about tracking ALL TFs (especially new ones that don't get badges right off the bat.)
REWORK THE SHARD TFs SO THEY ARE INTERESTING ENOUGH TO DO AGAIN!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So they aren't having to go back over 18 months of CoH. They only have to go over 12 months. I also cannot understand why it would take so long to go through the databases. Databases are made for data storage and recovery. They are MADE for queries like this. It's the whole reason to USE a database.
[/ QUOTE ]
What if the information they are sorting through isn't even in a database? And if it is in a database how many entries do you think are in the database? It seems not so much as a problem about actually finding the items in question but how many compute cycles it will take to find them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Correct, but nobody's asked the important question yet. When they realised how long it took to datamine the first time, why the (expletive deleted) didn't they see this coming, and start writing out completed TFs somewhere as they happened, so no great datamining would be required.
Also as for the TF souvenirs, there should be little problem in awarding anybody who has the badge for a TF the souvenir to go with it. This won't sort the ones without badges at the time they were done (RIP Calvin Scott), but as an ongoing solution even if you had to wait for a program to run every so often to get your souvenir it would be better than nothing.
Mr Minotaur 50 stone/axe tank Freedom
and 50+ others
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
[ QUOTE ]
I'm just scratching my head wondering why they didn't have badges created for these TF's when they were first released.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is the real question. It's ridiculous to expect them to devote resources to a year of datamining just for a few badges, but I don't understand why there weren't badges for the TFs when they went in. It's especially confusing because the TFs went in at the same time as the badge system.
I'm not issuing criticism, I'm asking a question: what, exactly, does it take to implement a badge for a TF?
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I really hate this (especially after spending about 10 hours over the last 2 days finishing a Shard TF with my level 50), at least I can understand it.
Of course, I don't see myself doing that one again, so I doubt I'll ever get the badge. 
CURSE YOU, FAATHIM!
[ QUOTE ]
Then we come to the first Shadowshard taskforce, the twelve hour hell that is Quarterfield. It's the same missions over and over again, guys. Rescue hostages in caves, how many times? Four? Clean out bases. The last four missions are practically identical! Rularuu see through stealth. Nemesis snipers see through stealth. And it's not so easy as starting and then dropping four people either, because that hardly ever works out.
[/ QUOTE ]
LadyMoiread is right, there's about 5 different types of missions in the TF, but 2 or 3 of them are repeated in identical form over and over for hours of play. The only variation is the location of the mission, and when one of the repeated mission types stops and another type of mission starts repeating. It's absolutely mind-numbing. This is not an example of content that I would choose to experience, if I wanted to experience a good storyline. The badge is the only reason I would recommend it to anyone.
I should have stopped paying you as soon as I realized that you were using my money to change the PvE game I love into a PvP game. It was foolish of me to trust you to leave PvE intact.
[ QUOTE ]
Odd that doesn't fit with the TaskForces Badges. You already reward badges for TFs, so shouldnt there be something in the system that tracks and marks a character that completed XXX TaskForce if it was already done?
If there is nothing the tags a character that completed a TF when the badge is not working, I think there should be.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this goes to the question of why the TF's were added w/o adding the badge reward at the same time. I appreciate the information Positron has provided, and understand from that why they won't be datamining - and have resolved myself to redoing the TF to actually get the badge (once I'm certain that the I5 badge reward is functioning properly, of course). What I haven't heard is a Dev explanation of why it was necessary to release the issue 2 & 3 task forces in a non-badge-awarding state, and then not make that fact publicly known so that players could factor that into their decision to participate in those task forces.
I should have stopped paying you as soon as I realized that you were using my money to change the PvE game I love into a PvP game. It was foolish of me to trust you to leave PvE intact.
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
If Im not mistaken, it shouldnt be 18 months of data you have to go through. Shadow Shard and the TF were not introduced until issue 2 which was on September 16, 2004.
So that would be less then 12 months not 18. So all datamining for the Shadow Shard TFs should be from the date not from the start of CoH itsself.
Don't get me wrong I will run the TF's again Im sure because I enjoyed them, but the Dr. Quarterfield TF took us a astronomical amount of time to complete. Not to mention we have to do this TF again with the nerfed heroes we now have to deal with, I find this to be ridiculous.
I would feel much better if I was awarded the badge for completing that TF over all others. But i will probably never do that TF again. It was all repeat missions, with no AV at the end or anything, it was the most boring TF I ever did.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
[ QUOTE ]
You devs are constantly going to have to fight this battle UNLESS you do something about tracking ALL TFs (especially new ones that don't get badges right off the bat.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, do something like have all new task forces award a badge right off the bat...
I should have stopped paying you as soon as I realized that you were using my money to change the PvE game I love into a PvP game. It was foolish of me to trust you to leave PvE intact.
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay...
I wish to say something about the mass hysteria going on about this.
Look at how Positron opened up his message. He opened it up with a blantant way of how he feels about all this complaining.
To give you a new target ... OMG.. I'm sure that everyone has had something happen in the game that they are not happy with.
When that happens, what you do about it shows what kind of person you are!
Do you whine about it endlessly? Ordering people around like some poor animal? Demanding that they must do whatever you want in order to satisfy you?
Or do you accept their explanation (regardless of whether you like or believe their explanation). Because this isn't about them, it is about how you are. It is about the person you are.
Positron gave you his reason. Accept the reason and either choose to redo the task forces or choose not to. Choose to stay or choose to leave.
If you are the type of person to yell and scream and demand things all the time, expecting since you pay a measly 15 dollars a month that you can command things. You are very sadly mistaken.
I can tell you that no business will go beyond a certain limit to satisfy any single person who represents such a small amount of income to the company. If you have a 1000 accounts, then perhaps you would be worthy of their attention. But at anything less than that, your number value is too small for them to concern themselves with.
I know that you would get better results without whining and complaining and demanding then EVER with it.
Operating a company you are more than likely to 'try' for the nicer people than the complainers.
There is no 'the customer is always right'. That does not exist.
You don't know the technical side of things, even if you are in the industry, you don't know how Cryptic is set up. If they tell you it can't/won't be done. Then that is it.
Why would Crytipc/NCSoft want to let you deluge their GM staff with constant requests to datamine on an individual basis.
It detracts from their main job of helping players with situations. It also opens up to people abusing the system.
It is time for people would rise above what they only wish to see and accept what has been said to them.
Above all, stop harrassing the Development Team. Even they must have their limits to what they will 'take' from the complainers. Hopefully everyone can see by how Positron opened up his post that he is someone who is not amused by all the complaining.
They made a business decision and it is up to us to strive to accept that decision and not whine and complain about it.
Walk away if you must, stay if you will, but accept what Positron has said already.
Member of Team Awesome���
Justice Server
[ QUOTE ]
Geko and I were both surprised to find out that the powers system already DID this
[/ QUOTE ]
I realize that CoH's direction has gotten me touchy and paranoid these last few months, but....
Anyone else bothered by that phrase?
[ QUOTE ]
How is it that you awarded the kill X badges then when the different issues went live. I'm sure you didn't datamine that. If you track how many of each villain/monster are killed couldn't you just look for the end villain for the TF and award based off that?
[/ QUOTE ]
From what I remember, none of the kill badges were awarded retroactively. Feel free to correct me, though.
I just want to say a big THANK YOU to Positron. For once we're getting honest, logical answers. Now that I know how long the datamining would take, and a little more about how the badges system works, the lack of TF badges rewarded after teh fact does not bother me at all.
So again, thank you, for finally giving us a logical answer to one of the issues we have.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Geko and I were both surprised to find out that the powers system already DID this
[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone else bothered by that phrase?
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite, actually. They're kind of in charge, so they really should know what's going on in the code...
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
That certainly makes sense. Perhaps a compromise can be found? It seems to me a good part of the frustration is that some people want to recieve some sort of keepsake reward for a Task Force. Souvenirs were an acceptable reward, but that was taken away without communication.
Instead of datamining the past two years, would it be feasable to datamine just to the point where Task Force souvenirs were taken away, so that you got either a souvenir or badge?
[ QUOTE ]
Do you whine about it endlessly? Ordering people around like some poor animal? Demanding that they must do whatever you want in order to satisfy you?
Or do you accept their explanation (regardless of whether you like or believe their explanation). Because this isn't about them, it is about how you are. It is about the person you are.
There is no 'the customer is always right'. That does not exist.
You don't know the technical side of things, even if you are in the industry, you don't know how Cryptic is set up. If they tell you it can't/won't be done. Then that is it.
[/ QUOTE ]
As long as I am a paying customer, I will always have the right to ask questions. Its called customer service. Every business has it, whether its some type of service, providing goods, or even a computer game. We are their customers, they listen to us. To say that the customer is not always right is ridiculous. Yeah, its an over-used cliche. But unfortunately, its reality. If you don't bend for your customers, someone else will. It's proven time and time again. For example, the company I work for just lost an account. We lost this account because they were not happy with quality. The customer complained and we tried to fix the problem. No solution was good enough for them, so they went to another company that had a solution for their problem. So spare me with the "There is no the customer is always right" bull. The only area where this does not exist is when a company corners the market in an area, and NCSoft/Cryptic is not the only game in town.
And you are right, I'm not in the industry. And I commend these guys for all the work they do. But they need to understand that this is not a popular decision. Some of these posts may come off a little harsh, but I don't think you understand some of the frustration some of us feel as customers.
lvl 50 Energy Blaster
Protecting the Galaxy, one planet at a time......
@Capt Omega
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay...
I wish to say something about the mass hysteria going on about this.
Look at how Positron opened up his message. He opened it up with a blantant way of how he feels about all this complaining.
To give you a new target ... OMG.. I'm sure that everyone has had something happen in the game that they are not happy with.
When that happens, what you do about it shows what kind of person you are!
Do you whine about it endlessly? Ordering people around like some poor animal? Demanding that they must do whatever you want in order to satisfy you?
Or do you accept their explanation (regardless of whether you like or believe their explanation). Because this isn't about them, it is about how you are. It is about the person you are.
Positron gave you his reason. Accept the reason and either choose to redo the task forces or choose not to. Choose to stay or choose to leave.
If you are the type of person to yell and scream and demand things all the time, expecting since you pay a measly 15 dollars a month that you can command things. You are very sadly mistaken.
I can tell you that no business will go beyond a certain limit to satisfy any single person who represents such a small amount of income to the company. If you have a 1000 accounts, then perhaps you would be worthy of their attention. But at anything less than that, your number value is too small for them to concern themselves with.
I know that you would get better results without whining and complaining and demanding then EVER with it.
Operating a company you are more than likely to 'try' for the nicer people than the complainers.
There is no 'the customer is always right'. That does not exist.
You don't know the technical side of things, even if you are in the industry, you don't know how Cryptic is set up. If they tell you it can't/won't be done. Then that is it.
Why would Crytipc/NCSoft want to let you deluge their GM staff with constant requests to datamine on an individual basis.
It detracts from their main job of helping players with situations. It also opens up to people abusing the system.
It is time for people would rise above what they only wish to see and accept what has been said to them.
Above all, stop harrassing the Development Team. Even they must have their limits to what they will 'take' from the complainers. Hopefully everyone can see by how Positron opened up his post that he is someone who is not amused by all the complaining.
They made a business decision and it is up to us to strive to accept that decision and not whine and complain about it.
Walk away if you must, stay if you will, but accept what Positron has said already.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well put.
Im kind of pissed for having almost every badge in the game, but since it would take so long to datemine, even if that duration was cut into 1 month, thats one month of work they could invest in something else while you can do your TF again. i have done all 4 and ill do all for 4 again, eventually.
that means alot of people will be redoing these TFs
if your on freedom send me a global tell and we shall set up to do each TF
@Hatter Zero 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Positron,
Umm - I can't attest to the magnitude of the problem, not knowing what "18 months of data" means in the context of CoH. But I have the impression that it is a large amount, and that it is a 'hard' (from a CS perspective) nut to crack.
However - the data is out there (don't you have it archived?) - so, couldn't these badges be issued retroactively, at some point in the future, if you provided:
a) the raw data (even if measured in terabytes), and
b) a challenge to the Computer-Science community at-large? Like: MIT, IBM , or heck, even Slashdot?
I mean, heck, explain that you have the raw data in hand, and that you have a bunch of people left out in the cold, and that you have a problem you don't currently have the capability/capacity to deal with, and have the humility to at least ask for a little help before dumping folks by the wayside, OK?
Thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Looking at this again (by the light of day 
) - in retrospect my response was a little harsh. I'm not usually quite so snarky... but the frustration with this 'death by a thousand cuts' scenario we seem to be going through lately (compounded by some indignation over what poor Cuppa has to go through each time) just got to me.
Ah, well - I'm sure you folks are doing what you can with what you have - at least this time there's been some Dev response in this thread (twice! 
) - thanks for that 
.
[ QUOTE ]
I can tell you that no business will go beyond a certain limit to satisfy any single person who represents such a small amount of income to the company. If you have a 1000 accounts, then perhaps you would be worthy of their attention. But at anything less than that, your number value is too small for them to concern themselves with.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for your description of what is wrong with Corporations, CosmicHerald.
[ QUOTE ]
It is time for people would rise above what they only wish to see and accept what has been said to them.
[/ QUOTE ]
When you say "rise above" it sounds like you're saying "bend over".
[ QUOTE ]
Above all, stop harrassing the Development Team.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't feel that insisting on good customer service is harrassment. Someone dropped the ball by allowing this task force situation to develop, and both NCSoft and Cryptic need to understand our feelings about their failure.
[ QUOTE ]
They made a business decision and it is up to us to strive to accept that decision and not whine and complain about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd say rather that it's up to us to voice our objections to business decisions that adversely affect us, their customers. If we don't tell them that we don't like one of their decisions, how will they factor that dislike into their future decisions?
City of Heroes (imo) is the best mmo currently on the market, and I reserve the right to provide whatever feedback I belive will help the publisher and development team to keep it that way. If they make a business decision that I don't agree with, then I'm going to say as much.
I should have stopped paying you as soon as I realized that you were using my money to change the PvE game I love into a PvP game. It was foolish of me to trust you to leave PvE intact.
These forums are here for feed back Mr. Dumass
They are here so that we the consumer can be satisfied. We are trying to get things changed by voicing our opinions and while it is good that we get some responses, those responses will inevitably breed new questions.
Being a fanboy and trying to scold everyone is what is not helping.
as for this: [ QUOTE ]
If you are the type of person to yell and scream and demand things all the time, expecting since you pay a measly 15 dollars a month that you can command things. You are very sadly mistaken.
I can tell you that no business will go beyond a certain limit to satisfy any single person who represents such a small amount of income to the company. If you have a 1000 accounts, then perhaps you would be worthy of their attention. But at anything less than that, your number value is too small for them to concern themselves with.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is what shows us what kind of company they have. Does the little guy matter? do the people who have been here suporting and helping CoH grow matter? If not should we continue to suport them?
I have worked for many companies who do make the customer feel important and they do good business.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.
We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay...
I wish to say something about the mass hysteria going on about this.
Look at how Positron opened up his message. He opened it up with a blantant way of how he feels about all this complaining.
To give you a new target ... OMG.. I'm sure that everyone has had something happen in the game that they are not happy with.
When that happens, what you do about it shows what kind of person you are!
Do you whine about it endlessly? Ordering people around like some poor animal? Demanding that they must do whatever you want in order to satisfy you?
Or do you accept their explanation (regardless of whether you like or believe their explanation). Because this isn't about them, it is about how you are. It is about the person you are.
Positron gave you his reason. Accept the reason and either choose to redo the task forces or choose not to. Choose to stay or choose to leave.
If you are the type of person to yell and scream and demand things all the time, expecting since you pay a measly 15 dollars a month that you can command things. You are very sadly mistaken.
I can tell you that no business will go beyond a certain limit to satisfy any single person who represents such a small amount of income to the company. If you have a 1000 accounts, then perhaps you would be worthy of their attention. But at anything less than that, your number value is too small for them to concern themselves with.
I know that you would get better results without whining and complaining and demanding then EVER with it.
Operating a company you are more than likely to 'try' for the nicer people than the complainers.
There is no 'the customer is always right'. That does not exist.
You don't know the technical side of things, even if you are in the industry, you don't know how Cryptic is set up. If they tell you it can't/won't be done. Then that is it.
Why would Crytipc/NCSoft want to let you deluge their GM staff with constant requests to datamine on an individual basis.
It detracts from their main job of helping players with situations. It also opens up to people abusing the system.
It is time for people would rise above what they only wish to see and accept what has been said to them.
Above all, stop harrassing the Development Team. Even they must have their limits to what they will 'take' from the complainers. Hopefully everyone can see by how Positron opened up his post that he is someone who is not amused by all the complaining.
They made a business decision and it is up to us to strive to accept that decision and not whine and complain about it.
Walk away if you must, stay if you will, but accept what Positron has said already.
[/ QUOTE ]
It really not about the descision, it's about the lack of planning. As some people have mentioned these taskforces were not released with badges, they should have at least given Souveiners but they stopped. They stopped because the developers knew people would start complaining that they have these trinkets but not the badge (As some are already claiming).
More than anything I think the post brings up the issue that badges are already problematic with simple ways of improving them. Given the choice of fixing them to make them easier, they went with harder. Rather than discuss with the playerbase they sent out a scapegoat. Rather than ask us how we feel about a particular issue they told us.
Tyrants? That's something you have to decide. My personal opinion is that anytime a person in charge has the option of at least polling the people they're trying to reach and don't, well that sort of speaks for itself.
I wish I had more clout, as this post will more than likely be passed over by everyone. I'm resigned to my fate however. I have tried to ask why and get interaction on so many things that it doesn't seem I ever will. We could have polls, we could have server town forums, we could have email responses, we could have a lot of things, we don't.
It has been made crystal clear that by not asking us what we want, that the developers believe we are not important. Act accordingly.
The second and fourth Shadowshard taskforces are at least interesting enough to do again. The AVs at the end are more than worth it. My SG runs Faathim regularly as an influence source for our contests, and it's still fun everytime.
The third Shadowshard taskforce is, well, boring as [censored], but we don't complain because it can easily be completed in less than four hours.
Then we come to the first Shadowshard taskforce, the twelve hour hell that is Quarterfield. It's the same missions over and over again, guys. Rescue hostages in caves, how many times? Four? Clean out bases. The last four missions are practically identical! Rularuu see through stealth. Nemesis snipers see through stealth. And it's not so easy as starting and then dropping four people either, because that hardly ever works out.
So award the badge for Quarterfield retroactively, or change it so we actually WANT to do it again. This seems to be the biggest complaint here. The other taskforces are not a big deal, but Quarterfield needs a good kick up the side of the head.
Come on, guys, give us something to work with here.