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I don't get you people. If the only reason you are spending 12+ hours of your life doing something that you don't find entertaining in the least is to have a silly little icon show up in your toon info that might, on occasion, impress some noob, but that most people will not give a flip about, then you have greater problems than can be solved with datamining. I don't care what kind of honking great "badge" you get at the end of something, if it's not fun, don't do it. If it's fun, then you shouldn't mind doing it again. If you are saying "well it was fun the first time, but it would be boring to do again," then nah, it wasn't as fun as you say it was.
NOBODY CARES HOW MANY BADGES YOU HAVE AND YOU DON'T NEED A BADGE TO KNOW THAT YOU DID SOMETHING!!! Sheesh, you people whine about everything around here.
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You've missed the point entirely.
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That's his M.O.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Now for my next question, which has been expressed earlier, but I thought I would re-iterate it:
Can there be an 'official' site that lists the badges that are available to acquire?
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While we're at it, if such a page is made - and this is something I've either not seen listed, or seen conflicting information on - for badges for kills such as Lusca, Adamastor, etc. list if *anyone* in the kill gets the badge (yeah, we're really "arresting" an octopus...) or just "the team that does the most damage/gets the first shot in/etc."
It gets to be a letdown and/or annoyance to get there only to find "Oh, you're person #9, no spot on the team, but help - you'll get the badge!" or "Oh, team1 took a shot and ran away, we can kill it..." and then not get the badge. (Yes, I know you still get the XP - or debt - but I don't look for these guys for XP.)
Nobody seems to know the criteria for each monster badge (such as adamastor, babbage, etc.) or they get conflicting info.
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A subsequent reply from Cuppa indicates that she will push for the Devs to write a script that will check for the Souvenir and award the Badge if the result = True.
I hope that they decide to go this route. The issue seems to be one of manual awarding. Automated awarding would seem to be a logical choice here and I would question why things are being done the hard way instead of the smart way.
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This is a gaming company right? As in someone there does programing right? 
So, why not make a program to sift through whatever data they have to find some unique flag to say that you complete the TFs in question. Not knowing the specific format of the data (but knowing that the data does exist in some form, otherwise dataming for badges would be immposible without data to mine...) it could range from one flag needed to search for all TFs to one flag needed to search through for each TF.
It probably wouldn't be fast or pretty to run the program, but it would work, and work without human interaction once the base program was made. (I've made several programs that input throught large text files to find specifics, it's not that hard...) I'd do it myself given the format of the data and database to work with. Of course I can't expect them to release that, that would be crazy and like releasing uncomplied source code. Anyways, the point is that while it might take a while for a program to sift/award the badge, it wouldn't be manpower intensive, or even CPU time intensive if build with a few limiters on the rate of mining. I'm just kinda confused why anyone would ever want to even attempt to do something like this even close to manually... 
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I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.
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STAY BACK, YOU FOOL! YOU'RE A DEFENDER! SURELY YOU CAN'T HOPE TO TANK THIS THREAD!
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Yeah, that's Synapse's job...
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Synapse couldn't tank his way through a wet paper bag.
Posi, how hard would it be to add in tracking/badge counts from this point forward. Then when and if you want to make a badge, you could get a graphic, come up with a name, and voila insta-badge. Or would that put a lot of load on your database and our character file?
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As long as I am a paying customer, I will always have the right to ask questions. Its called customer service. Every business has it, whether its some type of service, providing goods, or even a computer game. We are their customers, they listen to us. To say that the customer is not always right is ridiculous. Yeah, its an over-used cliche. But unfortunately, its reality. If you don't bend for your customers, someone else will. It's proven time and time again. For example, the company I work for just lost an account. We lost this account because they were not happy with quality. The customer complained and we tried to fix the problem. No solution was good enough for them, so they went to another company that had a solution for their problem. So spare me with the "There is no the customer is always right" bull.
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Again, I repeat the motto at my old company... "The customer is not always right, but the customer is always the customer."
IMO, Posi has taken a good step by explaining the hurdles in trying to datamine for these badges. That kind of open dialogue goes far into re-establishing trust with a cynical portion of the customer base.
Part of the problem, from how I'm hearing those upset (and I do think the yelling is getting a bit loud and melodramatic), is residual resentment over the end of souvenirs and how that was handled. The change in procedure was made without communication to us (invoking the same stealth-nerf reactions) and the rationale for the change (that the souvenirs were only being awarded to TF leaders and team mates had to petition to get it) came off as disingenuous in contrast to player's in-game experiences and (IIRC) not given further explanation or an apology. (I know there are plenty of posters who wouldn't be satisfied by an apology for the misstatement, but I think it would go far to placating more players who will go silent on the issue.)
I think some of this furor carries over bad feelings from how the souvenirs ended. The reward was taken away without a plan to deal with customers who may be frustrated with the change. A pre-emptive message regretfully outlining why the change was necessary would have gotten some outrage, but would have generated less cynicsm in the long run than waiting until someone was dissatisfied to deal with the change. I think that addressing that would help people deal with this a bit.
However, I think the biggest problem is that a lot of players (evidently) don't consider two of the four Shadow Shard Task Forces worthwhile content on their own, that they're only worthwhile if they can get a souvenir or badge for it. I hope this gets consideration because revamped TFs feel like new content, as much as new TFs.
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The only area where this does not exist is when a company corners the market in an area, and NCSoft/Cryptic is not the only game in town.
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I'm sure that's the cue for posters will tell you that NCsoft runs a far better MMO than SOE or EA....
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But Cryptic says they won't go through it and based on the information they provided, it is a smart decision on their part.
Who wants to wait such a long time to have a badge awarded?
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I agree. If the task forces actually award badges in issue 5 then it won't take me 2 years to get them, so for me the datamining would be a waste. Kinda sucks for the people who have said that they aren't up to doing them again, though.
I should have stopped paying you as soon as I realized that you were using my money to change the PvE game I love into a PvP game. It was foolish of me to trust you to leave PvE intact.
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You know I'm really surprised there isn't a more simple solution to datamining. Why don't they just make it so that when a player finishes a TF, there is a field in their player profile that goes from False to True - a simply Boolean change.
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It's my belief that such a field simply didn't exist previously because they weren't going to track every TF.
Me, I'm an information glutton. When I design databases I track too much stuff and add in (currently) unnecessary bloat.
Sure, later I look like a miracle worker when someone asks "is there any way to find out..." but until then I look like a dork for having such a glacial DB with all of this "useless" stuff floating around. And yep, some of it really does never get used.
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I wonder then is ther a way to go back in and create fields in a database to start tracking stuff like that. If there is then they should do this for the future in case something like this happens again. But of course, I highly doubt that they will implement another TF without at least giving a badge for it........
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Per a PM reply from Cuppa, there is a blanket policy in place instructing GM's to not award ANY Badges by Petition after I5 goes live. This includes those who have a Souvenir for a SS TF.
Personally, I don't see the reasoning behind it.
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The reason for this is to prevent the GM's from being swamped by requests to add the badges. They'll be plenty busy handling all the I5 bugs that make it over to live when the issue is released.
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Thanks for telling me what I already know. My full post outlines the concern for Manually awarding the Badges. They need to work smarter not harder.
Bottom line :
They should be writing a script to auto award if you posses the Souvenir.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Geko and I were both surprised to find out that the powers system already DID this
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I realize that CoH's direction has gotten me touchy and paranoid these last few months, but....
Anyone else bothered by that phrase?
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I'm more bothered by what immediately followed...
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If it involved engineering, we would have found a different solution.
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Could that account for why they decided to nerf powers (mostly consisting of decreasing a stat's base value in a database) instead of improving mob AI (actual coding/work involved) in order to bring "challenge" to the game?
It does make one wonder...
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Synapse couldn't tank his way through a wet paper bag.
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Thus, the humor. It's a reference to a CoV trailer.
I should have stopped paying you as soon as I realized that you were using my money to change the PvE game I love into a PvP game. It was foolish of me to trust you to leave PvE intact.
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Thanks for telling me what I already know.
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Sorry, I meant to be helpful. When you said "Personally, I don't see the reasoning behind it." I thought that meant that you didn't know the reasoning behind it.
I should have stopped paying you as soon as I realized that you were using my money to change the PvE game I love into a PvP game. It was foolish of me to trust you to leave PvE intact.
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You mean more so than them not noticing that they were 2-shotting +7 mobs in their test environment and being confident enough about it to post a video of it?
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Ahhh, two-shotting +7's. Man, those were the days.
.... The days of insanity.
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Thanks for telling me what I already know.
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Sorry, I meant to be helpful. When you said "Personally, I don't see the reasoning behind it." I thought that meant that you didn't know the reasoning behind it.
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No worries and personally I don't. Are there really that many active players with SS TF Souvenirs?
I find it hard to believe.
I also don't understand why they are unwilling to make this simple concession on a QoL issue to appease an already frustrated fanbase.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Geko and I were both surprised to find out that the powers system already DID this
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I realize that CoH's direction has gotten me touchy and paranoid these last few months, but....
Anyone else bothered by that phrase?
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I'm more bothered by what immediately followed...
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If it involved engineering, we would have found a different solution.
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Could that account for why they decided to nerf powers (mostly consisting of decreasing a stat's base value in a database) instead of improving mob AI (actual coding/work involved) in order to bring "challenge" to the game?
It does make one wonder...
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Beat me to it. I can only hope that this is just poor phrasing, because it does strongly imply that the preferred Dev solution to a problem is the easiest solution, not the best solution. Sometimes those two are the same, but it's rare.
What's with the flaming? If you go into a no-badge TF with the expectation of a badge *hopefully/possibly* in the future and then get mad if it doesn't happen, the joke's on you. If you want/need badges that badly, do the TFs that have badges already associated with them, and don't bother with the rest. Badges were designed to enhance the game experience, not as an end in and of itself. I'm a completist/perfectionist myself, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over a badge in a game. Losing sleep is what reality is for, no? 
I did 2 of the Shard TFs with my SG and I'm just fine with walking away from it without a badge because I went into it for the *gasp* experience , and the fun times spent with good friends. And, we got 3 folks closer to 50 (one of them dinged 50 during) so that was a reward in itself.
Just my 2 cents worth from an avid, active, year-plus-long player getting sick of the Doooom/Khaaannnnn/Flaming BS that seems to have overtaken everything ... and yes, I'm STILL looking forward to I5 and exploring the new content with my friends (because we have FUN ... we really really do, no matter what) .... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. 
Just wanted everyone to see this. Maybe it will cut down on some of the hate. Doubtful, but maybe. I PMed Positron with some questions, and here are the answers.
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1) Since the TFs in question were added after the badge system was in place, why weren't they already being tracked? Isn't it trivial to assume there will eventually be a badge for it?
We only wanted to do badges for the "Freedom Phalanx" Task Forces, not the Trials and other Task Forces. Only because of the Souvenir Clue fiasco did we put in badges for the other TFs.
2) If future TFs/Trials are added, will they be added concurrently with badges for them?
Yes, all new TFs and Trials will have badges with them already.
3)Just how of curiosity, how big (MB, GB, TB etc) is the log that would have to be datamined?
Multiple Terabytes... per server.
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No worries and personally I don't. Are there really that many active players with SS TF Souvenirs?
I find it hard to believe.
I also don't understand why they are unwilling to make this simple concession on a QoL issue to appease an already frustrated fanbase.
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Believe me, I'm 100% behind awarding the badge for people who got a souvenir. It won't help those of us who didn't get a souvenir either, but it's way better than leaving everyone out hanging.
I should have stopped paying you as soon as I realized that you were using my money to change the PvE game I love into a PvP game. It was foolish of me to trust you to leave PvE intact.
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Geko and I were both surprised to find out that the powers system already DID this
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I realize that CoH's direction has gotten me touchy and paranoid these last few months, but....
Anyone else bothered by that phrase?
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I'm more bothered by what immediately followed...
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If it involved engineering, we would have found a different solution.
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Could that account for why they decided to nerf powers (mostly consisting of decreasing a stat's base value in a database) instead of improving mob AI (actual coding/work involved) in order to bring "challenge" to the game?
It does make one wonder...
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Beat me to it. I can only hope that this is just poor phrasing, because it does strongly imply that the preferred Dev solution to a problem is the easiest solution, not the best solution. Sometimes those two are the same, but it's rare.
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Perhaps they're more in the mood for "quick and dirty" due to CoV's current stage of development. They have to be short on manpower right now.
I'm not saying that's a justification; just a possible explanation.
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do the TFs that have badges already associated with them
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I'd already done them all with that character.
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and don't bother with the rest
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I wouldn't have, had I known that "the rest" didn't award badges.
I should have stopped paying you as soon as I realized that you were using my money to change the PvE game I love into a PvP game. It was foolish of me to trust you to leave PvE intact.
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1) Since the TFs in question were added after the badge system was in place, why weren't they already being tracked? Isn't it trivial to assume there will eventually be a badge for it?
We only wanted to do badges for the "Freedom Phalanx" Task Forces, not the Trials and other Task Forces. Only because of the Souvenir Clue fiasco did we put in badges for the other TFs.
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I'm not sure that I believe that what Positron is saying here is factual. Badges were (and still are) awarded for the sewer trial and the eden trial, as well as for all three of the respec task forces.
I should have stopped paying you as soon as I realized that you were using my money to change the PvE game I love into a PvP game. It was foolish of me to trust you to leave PvE intact.
I've got an 'out of the box' solution to their datamining problem. Ask the user base, us, to run a distributed computing app or screen saver, much the the SETI project. I bet with the distributed computing power of the customer base we could rip through all the terrabytes of data in no time. Heck, if they didn't want to write the darn app I bet there is someone in the customer base that could and would do it. If not, i know there has to be someone in the open source community that would jump on it just to do it and have as a reference.
I know I would leave my 7 machines on 24/7 running such and app. Things like this spread quickly and you can end up with people not even involved in the game running the app just to help out. Heck, they might even decide to take a look at our beloved little game
....throughs two coins in the Jar.....
Okay, I have never been a BIG badge collector. I have most of them, not all but most on my first toon (lvl 50 claws/regen) and continue to pick up badges when I can. I know alot of people are ALL about badges. Some people want them all on every toon they have. Personaly, I get them when I can on my main toon. All my other toons just collect the ones that get them accolade powers, or have a cool title. If there was more of a reward for getting badges, I would take the time to find/collect them. As is, I'll take the accolade powers, get the rest when I feel like it, or some one offers me the chance. The fact that they can't retro/give badges, for the TF's you have finished when there was no badge, does not bother me. In fact, maybe it will give some of these other lvl 50 toons something to do. I understand that the devs can't just retro on a badge that was not there if they didn't track it. That's like me asking for a badge for the number of times I had to tank on my Scrapper in issue 2 when I didn't have IH, and integration didn't offer a healing buff. Sure they can give me the debt badges for it 
but not a badge.... that says I was playing the TANK role. why? Because they don't keep track of that. Like Positron said, it's easy to make and give new badges for things they already keep track of, but to GIVE badges for something that was not tracked or never existed? I would think it would be nearly impossible. Look at it this way folks.....at least you have something to do now, other than play a low lvl, or PL your friends. YES you may have done it before, but if you take a few people with you that have not.... and help them get through it......then your playing your role.... the HERO
In a world full of Heroes and Villains, what ever shall I be?.....
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You've missed the point entirely.
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Well, the point some people are trying to make is that they have performed a certain task in the past that did not have a certain reward attached to it at the time, which now does have a reward attached to it. These people think they deserve the reward without performing the task over again, and think the developers of the game should accomodate them regardless of the cost or impracticality. My point is that the task you performed was either fun or it wasn't. If it wasn't fun, then you should never have been doing it in the first place since the reward that you were expecting to get someday in the future is hardly worth the amount of time the task requires. If it was fun, then most likely you weren't even concerned with getting the badge in the first place, rather with the experience itself. In which case, you would probably perform the task again anyway in the future, at which point you would get the badge as a nice bonus.
A BADGE IS NOT AN INCENTIVE TO DO SOMETHING! YOU SHOULD NEVER DO SOMETHING THAT ISN'T FUN JUST TO GET A BADGE!
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I don't earn my badges for you. Not to impress you, not to be better than you, not to have something you don't. Same goes for every other player. My badges are not for you.
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Then why exactly do you desire badges? And why are you upset that you will have to do some things over to get a badge? You were fine without the badge up until you realized that they would be giving the badge out in the future. So now, the only difference is that some people will have the badge and you will not, even though you have done the same task. But that shouldn't matter to you, since you don't care about such things.
Again, why do you desire badges? For the self-satisfaction of knowing you did a certain thing? Don't you have that already from actually doing the thing and having memories of it? Why does a little graphic with some text somehow enhance your satisfaction of the experience? Please, I would like to know these things.
It is easy then, just track everything starting in issue 5 that way any badges you add later will already have data collected to support the issuing of them.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I am a Director of IS as soon as I read your post I could hear a bunch of my power users voices in my head saying, "so just track it all!"