Issue 5 Features Preview: Forest of Dread
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2005-06-29 09:18 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
It looks fantastic! I can't wait.
About trick arrows for controllers, as someone who primarily plays controllers, I would rather you guys skip on another defender primary power added to the controller secondaries, and give us some unique secondary powers in I6. Every time you guys do this, it's an annoyance to both Defenders, and even some of us controllers who would rather our AT's be distinct.
I say - let the Defenders have some areas that are all their own, and give us controllers some unique secondaries in I6.
But other than that issue, it looks really great guys. I'll just roll a Dark/Sonic Defender so that I can have a new 'controller' with sonic blast powers 
-Red Warlock
Red Warlock
- "The Shadow Rune of the Warlocks" (Arc ID 124319).
- "The Legion of Mutants vs. The Iron Agents" (Arc ID 200364).
- "The Children of Astoria" (Arc ID 217499)
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What a bunch of malarky.
Look. It's simple.
Force Fields - go on the user or a target. Protect that target from everything that can't exceed the defense.
RI and Darkest Night - go on an enemy. Protect everyone from that enemy so long as the debuff is sufficent to ruin his base toHit.
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So, the point of them is to stop you from being hit.
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The idea that these two powers are in imbalance is ludicrous. They do two totally different things. DN/RI protect the team from one foe and those foes who happen to be near them.
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Yes, because grouping foes is ever so difficult.
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FF bubbles protect one person from any foe no matter where that foe is in relation to anyone else.
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Unless they do Toxic, Untyped or Psi damage. Then your bubbles, they do nothing.
Unlike RI and DN, which completely ignore damage type
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The ONLY WAY to get the parity you seem to want is to give every Defender a targetted foe debuff and to also to give every defender a targetted friend +ACC power.
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No, I don;t want the set to be copies of eachother. I want Force Fields to have a purpose; FF is all about not getting hit. That is the whole point of the set. That's it. Rad and Dark also provide the not getting hit. As well as a bunch of other things. While the def numbers may not be as high as FF's, they are darn close. SO we have 1 set that does Def to most things, and 2 others that give slightly less Def to all things. Plus a bunch of other utility.
Give FFers some utility. Not the same utility as Rad or Dark.
Something their own
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Yeah, you want to beat on an AV? Go get a Rad or Dark Defender. You want to take on 8-man Freak missions? CoT? Crey? Go get a bubble defender and let everyone have their own god mode.
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Or I could keep my Dark and Rad for the Freak mission. They can handel 8 man missions just as well as the bubble defender, keep your team just a safe, and speed up the whole process. Plus they aren't weak blasters when you run that 8 man Psi CLockwork mission
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Every powerset does not need to be as good as every other powerset at every possible task in order to be "balanced".
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I aggree 100%. However, when certain sets are good in all areas, then they do need to be balanced. Where is Dark's weak area? Rad?
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For all of those who quit over the Arena or the HO nerf:
SUCKS
TO
BE
YOU.
<snip>
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my opinion is this isn't a "nyah - hah" to people have have let their accounts lapse. It is a "oh please come back, we really can do content you will like. we promise, please don't leave again."
but hey, I'm just glad to see some more PvE content so I should just hush.
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So the last three issuse that added content didn't prove that they can do content?
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true, but this issue release proves that they have not lost the ability to do content or lost focus on providing good PvE content.... and some would argue that some of those issues were a bit clunky too... depending on who you talk to, we haven't seen a "solid" release yet. I don't particularly feel that way but...
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If this has been asked..then its a bump..if not..then here goes...
Wasn't the Blaster AT to be looked at as a whole for I5?
I seem to remember an entire blaster community clamoring for some love right before I4, and States answer was something like "Not till I5".
What good are the new powersets if the AT is still bad news?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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I presumed that, since at the time that statement was made they were obviously working on I5, that it meant "not until we get I5 out the door."
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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Look. It's simple.
Force Fields - go on the user or a target. Protect that target from everything that can't exceed the defense.
RI and Darkest Night - go on an enemy. Protect everyone from that enemy so long as the debuff is sufficent to ruin his base toHit.
The idea that these two powers are in imbalance is ludicrous. They do two totally different things. DN/RI protect the team from one foe and those foes who happen to be near them. FF bubbles protect one person from any foe no matter where that foe is in relation to anyone else.
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That very good way to see things from a myopic non-defender viewpoint. However keep in mind the force field defender actually has to, you know.... actually play their character at some point rather then run behind a real hero and cheer them on to victory. In which case Force field defenders are considerable "less" than a Rad defender. Which is not to say Rad defenders are fanastic mind you, its more of a poor person in america is better off then a poor person in africa sorta situation. The lesser of two evils.
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Every powerset does not need to be as good as every other powerset at every possible task in order to be "balanced". Learning and accepting this will do wonders for your blood pressure.
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An interesting statement that does not really make sense. Someone has to play the other "weaker" powerset. Which then begs the question why would someone bother when they could play the better poweret.
Again and again I point out it is not perfect balance that must be achived but rather perfect domination that must be avoided. If two defender sets are vastly better than the rest then their is an issue. The exact same issue that occurs when two AT are better than the rest.
I get the feeling that the Devs think Rad or dark defenders are where everyone in the game should be. I once felt this way as well, however much like the genie's bottle you can't get the game back to that level with out horrifically breaking it.
All this stuff is fluff that masks the real issue 5. The issue 5 I want to know about. Which is the, one would assume massive, "rebalancing" that in the works. Because if Invulnerabilty is too powerful and defenders are just right.... That is possibly a very deep dark nerfage hole we are looking at.
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not much in the way in the lvl 35++ content but it looks good
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DUDE! EXEMPLAR!
Jeezus!
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DUDE! NO XP FOR EXEMPLER!
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DUDE! EXTRA INFLUENCE!
Those SG bases in CoV ain't gonna be cheap!
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The influence gained from exempalring is much lower than what you would get on your own, hunting mobs at your level. And you ahve fewer tools to do it. Exemplar is a pathetic way to get influence. They need more content for 35+... I'm astounded they are releasing this for a level rangfe where therer is pklenty to do, and where the grind hasnt set in yet.
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For all of those who quit over the Arena or the HO nerf:
SUCKS
TO
BE
YOU.
<snip>
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my opinion is this isn't a "nyah - hah" to people have have let their accounts lapse. It is a "oh please come back, we really can do content you will like. we promise, please don't leave again."
but hey, I'm just glad to see some more PvE content so I should just hush.
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So the last three issuse that added content didn't prove that they can do content?
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true, but this issue release proves that they have not lost the ability to do content or lost focus on providing good PvE content.... and some would argue that some of those issues were a bit clunky too... depending on who you talk to, we haven't seen a "solid" release yet. I don't particularly feel that way but...
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after another read, I feel I must point out that the statement in quotes was to imply they are POSSIBLY doing some "bang up" PvE content to solidify themselves with strict PvE players that MAY have recently left in part, due to dissapointmnet in last issue release. The fact that I used the word "more" in the last sentence, implying I have already seen some PvE content, clarifies that I have taken note of their prior PvE content filled issues.
Wow, you can tell I haven't posted in these forums for a while. I forgot that I had to diagram out all my points so as not to have holes poked in them. My apologies, I'll pay more attention next time.
ARCHERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! time to make a alt and get him some ancient bow and arrow that will whoop butt on those stupid malta!! I love ya devs. 
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Cuppa, will these events be short lived or will they become permanent zone events like the Ghost ship and the Paladin?
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I can and will confirm that these are permanent zone events.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
*drool*
I'm sorry, is that my drool?
AWESOME!
So nice that the dev team still knows how to surprise us with something sweet.
Mission customization sounds awesome. I love the wave attacks from the TV trial. Escort a hostage? Awesome.
To say nothing of the power sets.
*falls over*
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Yay more shared power sets between controllers and defenders. There was not enough overlap already. 
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I'm going to mark it, at 12:25 pm ET I5 has it's first offical complant.
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The huge thread on Crotoa's level range didn't count?
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I say it counted
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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...could it be possible that one of the next new zones will bring back Winter Lords? It would be (forgive the pun) very cool.
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Whoah... an entire zone literally covered in snow and ice kept frozen by the Winter Lord. Suh-weet...
EDIT: [censored]!!!!! A 50-story version of the ice slide in FrostFire, OUTSIDE!!!! I WOULD NEVER LEAVE!!
ROTFL!!!!!
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oh god! neither would I!
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Yay more shared power sets between controllers and defenders. There was not enough overlap already.
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Yeah that does suck. Defenders are getting more and more unneeded all the time. Groups would rather have control than weenie blasts.
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Yes, because grouping foes is ever so difficult.
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If this is the sum total of your answer to this then I simply can't debate it with you. The idea that you can reliably get all threatening foes in the effect of DN/RI is garbage. I can't even guarantee it will happen when I solo and I assure you I know full well how to do it. You get things like knockback, the new AI running logic (when badly hurt) foes who phase and any number of other effects and I guarantee you that foes you wanted in those anchors WILL leave them.
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Unless they do Toxic, Untyped or Psi damage. Then your bubbles, they do nothing.
Unlike RI and DN, which completely ignore damage type
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Welcome to the world of Kheldians and Invul Tankers/Scrappers the world over. The problem here is that the implementation of god mode with specific kryptonite is a completely suck mechanic. This is not a FF-only problem.
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No, I don;t want the set to be copies of eachother. I want Force Fields to have a purpose; FF is all about not getting hit. That is the whole point of the set.
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You have a purpose. You and ignorant players may not want to accept it but the fact is that in the vast majority situations I would vastly prefer a Force Field defender than a Rad OR a Dark. Yeah, those two can end the fight faster. If they get their anchors off. If the foes are gathered together. If they aren't stunned so all their toggles drop.
Bubbles work all the time no matter what happens to the Defender. They're a click and not a toggle. They have no requirement for set up time before a fight. No need to divert aggro. Nothing. In exchange for that there are two damage types the bubbles don't work against. (I can't begin to explain why Toxic isn't defended against.)
If there is anything wrong with the set it's that the FF Defender needs something interesting to do while everyone runs around untouchable in the bubbles.
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Or I could keep my Dark and Rad for the Freak mission. They can handel 8 man missions just as well as the bubble defender, keep your team just a safe, and speed up the whole process. Plus they aren't weak blasters when you run that 8 man Psi CLockwork mission
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I've addressed this. If you think this is true you have to have such an incredibly more conservative, Tank-oriented play style than the people I play with that I'm not sure why it matters what Defender is along.
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I aggree 100%. However, when certain sets are good in all areas, then they do need to be balanced. Where is Dark's weak area? Rad?
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This outlook disgusts me.
First, I've explained in excruciating detail why Dark and Rad are not perfect for all situations. You have this idea and it is simply NOT true. Can they make do? Sure. They are not better than FF for all things in all cases. I maintain that FF is more useful more of the time.
And let's see... What sets can clear mez effects or give mez resistance? Storm, Empathy... and FF. Nothing in there for Rad or Dark.
Second, ask for FF to be improved, not others to be made less useful.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Why atleast they get new powers. There is nothing for Scrappers or tanker. I love the way they have been left out in the cold.
Later,
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Naw, they'll be getting all the nerfs.
Awesome! At the rate I'm playing my 19th level should be about the right level by the time the Issue hits. That or I'll have to wildly grind an alt
I wonder if the Hellion Arson events are going to involve the rescuing people from burning buildings which Statesman has mentioned before?
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That very good way to see things from a myopic non-defender viewpoint.
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Helooo. Read sigs much? Level 45 Defender? Level 20 Defender?
Yeah. Rad and Dark. You know why? Because I built them explicitly to try and solo them and anchor debuffs equate to self defense. I soloed my DDD to 43 before I got a -DR power in Tar Patch (which I liked just fine before, thanks).
That said I damn well know how the powers in those sets work in a team setting. I know how hard it can be to get the right foes debuffed and keep them that way. I know that my anchors can be dragged off into foes we didn't want to aggro. I know if I am stunned or killed I do NOTHING for my team.
On the flip side I know what it's like to be a Blaster or a Scrapper (especially) with bubbles on. It really is god mode like 95% of the time. It ups the level of foes you can battle about +2 just by increasing your survivability. And it requires little planning or forethought.
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However keep in mind the force field defender actually has to, you know.... actually play their character at some point rather then run behind a real hero and cheer them on to victory.
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You have this ludicrous idea that passive benefit is not a benefit. That because force fields are "fire and forget" that they mean nothing. That is so far from the truth it's funny. They mean increased XP from fighting more and more dangerous foes in safety. They mean lower down time due to less damage taken. They mean you don't even need a "healer" because you rarely take damage.
Yeah, I acknowledge that being a FF Defender looks boring. You don't do that much that often. But what you do do is incredible.
In exchange for that the devs saw fit to use the same model they did for Invul. You kick [censored] against nearly everything all the time, so here's something you are absolutely useless against. Yes, I hate this too and have clamored loudly for a long time that it needs to go. I'm not holding my breath, though.
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Every powerset does not need to be as good as every other powerset at every possible task in order to be "balanced". Learning and accepting this will do wonders for your blood pressure.
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An interesting statement that does not really make sense. Someone has to play the other "weaker" powerset. Which then begs the question why would someone bother when they could play the better poweret.
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What? Did you read what you quoted? "Every powerset does not need to be as good as every other powerset at every possible task." In other words some sets are better at some things. Dark/Rad excel at neutralizing one foe. They both require intense attention on the flow of battle to be done well. Force Field is, in may ways, "fire and forget". But if you do forget and don't refresh those bubbles, trust me - your team will notice.
Yes, Rad and Dark do work in a team mission setting. I hotly contest any assertion that they are "better" than FF. FF may be less entertaining to play. That's an incredibly subjective assertion and I'm not going to debate it with anyone. But don't tell me that they have lower utility to the team. It's not true.
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Again and again I point out it is not perfect balance that must be achived but rather perfect domination that must be avoided. If two defender sets are vastly better than the rest then their is an issue. The exact same issue that occurs when two AT are better than the rest.
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Once again, this is simply untrue. I do not accept it. I play these supposedly godlike Defenders and I call bunk.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Nice. Can't wait to make a bow defender. Gonna be sweet.
One question though. Why did you decide to put in Druids? Tuatha de Dannan=Druids. I've seen the witches before, but the druids are new, aren't they?
Edit: I mean, I see why they're there....forest of dread and all, just a bit shocked you went with the lesser known name (understandable)
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Nice. Can't wait to make a bow defender. Gonna be sweet.
One question though. Why did you decide to put in Druids? Tuatha de Dannan=Druids. I've seen the witches before, but the druids are new, aren't they?
Edit: I mean, I see why they're there....forest of dread and all, just a bit shocked you went with the lesser known name (understandable)
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Because of the mythological signifigance, and the fact that they were refered to as such in the Fir Bolg descriptions during the Halloween event.
Plus, States is all over that mythological junk - uhh, i mean, stuff. Fun stuff. Amazingly and exciting fun stuff. That is fun. :]
-LP
Hmmm, I didn't remember coming across those. Were they a villian group like the coven? Someone plz remind me or toss me a screenshot of them(at halloween). Because the pic of them in updates don't look at all familiar.
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Bubbles work all the time no matter what happens to the Defender. They're a click and not a toggle. They have no requirement for set up time before a fight. No need to divert aggro. Nothing. In exchange for that there are two damage types the bubbles don't work against. (I can't begin to explain why Toxic isn't defended against.)
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The code for "Defense" against Toxic does not exit *yet*. Positron or Geko told us this alreayd.
Still here, even after all this time!
Fir Bolg were the Pumpkin [Pie] villain group that consisted both of the Giant Pumpkin Monster (forgot name?) and the other Pumpkin head minions that spawned from doors.
-LP
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The code for "Defense" against Toxic does not exit *yet*. Positron or Geko told us this alreayd.
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That's good news, and makes more sense. The absence of toxic defense just doesn't follow thematically. Not for a force field.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Blaster changes are in I5. I PM'd Statesman specifically about that two days ago.
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Any ideas on how blasters are going to get FRENned?
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Nope and until it hits test I really don't want to know because no matter what they are somebody is going to complain and I'd rather have that complaining due to facts over speculation.