New Comic Series: My Opinion... What's Yours?
By
Adept,
Posted on: 2005-06-14 15:28 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I cant stand the new comic at all. I miss War Witch, Horus, and Apex.
The new comic is WAY to Marvel for me. The Blue King comics were way cheesy, but thats what I loved about them. The atmosphere was'nt overly gothic and dark.
Yea, I agree.....
I am just not digging the new comic...
I like Manticrore though, but the rest...just blah...
And the moment ANY comic starts fighting gods you know it's jumped the shark. That's right....geee...I can't think of anything...hmmm....I know! We'll make them fight GODS! Yea! That'll be coooolll! NOT! And the new one only took 2 issues to do that....
Bring back the old Trio, heroes return from he dead all the time.
Please ?
BuzzSaw
My honest opinion...and some spoilers in here so be warned if you have not read issue 1 and 2 yet.
I liked issue 1. Sure it was a bit rushed, but I expected that. They had to get the story moving very fast, and the cliff hanger at the end was really good.
Now...issue 2....I am not liking it. Read it 4 times now and it is just not giving me the "woah" fealing of issue 1. We are at ANOTHER "is states dead" cliffhanger. It worked for issue 1....move on.
Not liking the whole Zeus thing, or the greak mythology addition to the story. While this may be what was planned all along (there are hints everywhere) it just does not sit right with me. Perhaps if it was told a bit different, or if States did not act arrogent I would enjoy the concept more.
And the moving to the other plane of reality....blech, not needed. I think it would have worked better to have them try and work with some of the villian groups to gain there powers back.
And every issue starts like somebody looking at a recording of it all....guess that will be explained in future issues but it is kind of annoying.
Again...just my opinion.
I thought the Blue King comic was ok, but I wanted to read about Statesman and the rest of the Freedom Phalanx. Those guys are the main heroes in Paragon City so I wanted to know why. I liked that they just dropped us into a story too, because if you played enough CoH you should know the background to all the Planaxers by now. Throwing in some background stories at the beginning would have probably turned me off from the comic. So far I think the first 2 issues of the Top Cow comic are great and better then the Blue King series.
Also, for those that havent gotten the comic yet, check out your local comic book stores. They should have issue 2 by now and I bet they will have issue 1. I know that most comic book stores, are dark, dirty and sometimes smell funny, but the people working there are usually friendly and will order the book for you.
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I don't know these characters well enough to care about their problems.
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That is exactly how I feel too.
(smile).. perhaps I should have provided more context so that my post was not misunderstood. Specifically, I've been reading comics off and on for a long time; there was a period in the 90s where finally diversity was being embraced and to tell you the truth, if it was something that just came natural where comics/media without thinking just represented characters evenly I would never bring it up.
But if I look at the trend, we had: character Sentinel from Image comics who was the lead (90s) and who, as any hero character, was someone to look up to. Then, when this trend changed, they had some secret origin where he had altered time to not fulfill his destiny of poverty and crime and "stole" the technology and was thus easily discarded/discredited (stereotype). Sam Wilson, the Falcon, started out as an admirable character wanting to help his community but when the trend occurred, he became a street hustler (stereotype). Between that and the fact that most black characters are remake of original white characters (War Machine/Iron Man, Mr Terrific/Terry Sloan, Steel/Superman, etc) it just doesnt send a good message. Or, their origins are altered so that while Lucas Bishop initially appeared to be Black, they then moved him to be of an Australian aboriginal origin, Apocolypes originally appeared to be more of african/nubian origin, but in later Xmen cartoon (evolution), looked more caucasion.
Have their been improvements, yes, the Black Panther has resurfaced again and has an admirable set of qualities, Storm (though depicted sometimes as more caucasion/mixed vs. her original African representation), persists, and Bishop, recast as the venerable bald black man (Lex Luthor in JLU, Blade, Nick Fury (sort of samuel jackson lookalike); seemed that once capt sisko on DS9 went bald, so did all of the characters).
But, suffice to say, CoH I feel is very embracing of diversity and yes, I would love to just "let go" and would like nothing better, but where I thought we were making progress, it starts to slip again (perhaps after the OJ verdict.
But I won't bring this up again, just wanted to voice my opinion and sorry I caused so much concern...
Arc: 378122 "Tales of the Terran Space Marines -The Apocalypse Initiative" 5stars!
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Arc: 481545 "Twilight of the Gods - The Praetorian conflict"8000+ hits!
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I liked #1 but it seemed to be missing something I cannot put my finger on. The "rushed" seems correct as well.
I think it was more real than the Blue King series but that is only because of the story. (real as in like real life, where the BK series was like the game) I don't know that I feel real is better than game, but it was different.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I liked issue 1. Sure it was a bit rushed, but I expected that. They had to get the story moving very fast, and the cliff hanger at the end was really good.
Now...issue 2....I am not liking it. Read it 4 times now and it is just not giving me the "woah" fealing of issue 1. We are at ANOTHER "is states dead" cliffhanger. It worked for issue 1....move on.
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I found issue 1 to be ok but didn't like 2 at all. Issuse two seemed to much like Manticore's "This is my bad PU team" thread to me.
The old comic was enjoyable, but there was something a bit corny about it which sometimes turned me off. The comic book felt like something I'd expect to get for free. Nevertheless, it certainly wasn't terrible although some stories were certainly much better than others. And it was interesting to see how villains were introduced.
The new version seems to reflect higher level of production. It does start a bit abruptly. It feels like I picked up a comic book off the rack in the middle of an on-going series. I'd feel more lost if I wasn't already familiar with the characters, at least somewhat. It seems that the intention of the writers might have been to start off with impact, but they may have overdone it. I found that a lot of story was presented within very few pages. It was more like I was reading a synopsis than a fully developed story.
The other problem is that these epic heroes are brought down to earth too quickly. In fact, it's worse than that. In the very first issue we're told these heroes have some fairly large character flaws, and that they don't seem to get along particularly well. Everyone seems to be bitter. That sort of thing is better woven into the story over time, so that readers are able to connect with the characters and really understand their point of view. As it stands they seem to be upset over nothing. It's certainly an interesting approach, but it came on too quickly.
I actually found the ending to be a bit unexpected, even thought the eventual outcome is going to be fairly obvious. Although, again, it seems to be a bit out of character for the heroes as I've come to know them. I didn't picture them as the dark brooding types, especially in those outfits.
But anyway, this is my impression. All in all, the new book is enjoyable, and I tend to say a little more so than the previous version. It's not like I expected either to be of the caliber of some of the great comic books out there. I do think it's fairly consistent in quality with a lot of the stuff found in stores, which isn't bad considering it's essentially free.
Here's my gripe with the new comic (SPOILER WARNING)...
Are they going to kill Statesman off in EVERY single issue!? They're 2 for 2 so far! There's only so many times I can put up with those kinds of shenanigans (with Marvel comics being the worst offender of the "kill a hero, bring 'em back" club). The heroes lose any aspect of mortality every time it is done. Soon, no one will care how much trouble States and his crew get into, because you just know that they'll all be there in the next issue grinning from ear to ear...
My 2 cents...
Blue King Issues: Soo horrible I thought they were an embarrasment to the game. The last issue was particularly bad. Looked incredibly amateur
Top Cow: Love them.. it looks like a professional comic. It's only issue 2 yet people are comparing it against a 12 issue Blue King run. I think once we have a few more issues to get characters and storylines down it will be better. I think the new one is more epic in scale then the old, which I prefer.
Diversity in comics (as was brought up throughout this thread), some good points there. Forgot Green Lantern as a transplanted hero b.t.w. Anyone remember a DC Hero named "Black Lightning"?? He was on the "Outsiders" team. Anyways.. I like diversity in my comics/heroes, but I don't like forced diversity (I mean where there is this massive mix and it's apparent it is done to hit quotas or something). Still that said no diversity also is not realistic.. I am not sure how to hit the balance or what that balance even is. Frankly I find Back Alley Brawler to be a bad representation anyways (I always loved Falcon in Marvel but the point about him being a hustler playing to stereotype is a good one.. well the character's name "Back Alley Brawler" to me does the exact same thing.. Horus was a better representation (and non-stereotypical). Anyways.. I don't think diversity should just mean african-american either though.. ok they added Foreshadow the Korean Martial Arts guy.. so no Hispanic characters? Zorro, El Diablo, something...
Oh well.. it's early.. give Top Cow a chance.. I think the storys are better, the art it better, the production quality is better.. I enjoy reading the new comic.. the old one it felt like a chore to get through it.
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The new version seems to reflect higher level of production. It does start a bit abruptly. It feels like I picked up a comic book off the rack in the middle of an on-going series. I'd feel more lost if I wasn't already familiar with the characters, at least somewhat. It seems that the intention of the writers might have been to start off with impact, but they may have overdone it. I found that a lot of story was presented within very few pages. It was more like I was reading a synopsis than a fully developed story.
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Like giving a grand total of 1 PAGE to the origin of Statesman. Pathetic.
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The other problem is that these epic heroes are brought down to earth too quickly. In fact, it's worse than that. In the very first issue we're told these heroes have some fairly large character flaws, and that they don't seem to get along particularly well. Everyone seems to be bitter. That sort of thing is better woven into the story over time, so that readers are able to connect with the characters and really understand their point of view.
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Amen.
Okay, I've read through the new comic a couple of times and, a bit begrudgingly, I've decided that it's the best of the lot so far.
The Blue King comic never really clicked for me. The first few issues were the "villain of the month" with some unlikely matchups as well as some downright bad writing. War Witch sets fire to a warehouse full of people and all those superheroes we saw partying in background of the various panels were unable to save them all? Nine people die and there are no repercussions? To top it all off, we get one panel of remorse and her coven tells her "it's not your fault but it IS your responsibility".
Meh. Sorry, War Witch. It WAS your fault. If you didn't know how to handle that oversized match stick in a hazardous setting you shouldn't have been using it. If they had to use the "burning rave" story, then why couldn't we have focussed that issue on the efforts of the heroes to rescue the innocent party-goers and explain WHY nine people died despite the presence of some twenty-odd in-costume heroes?
The series picked up some with the jury duty story, then the Crey storyline (which to a great extent was just an excuse to have Apex's sister supply us with more T&A) went downhill again until we had the final issue and that "cute" hommage ending.
Anyway, back to Top Cow. Issue one left me a bit cold. My reaction was "However good this Mark Waid guy is supposed to be, he just doesn't 'get' Paragon City at all." I was willing to withhold judgement to give it a chance but I had a negative vibe fromit.
Issue Two has converted me. The story is compelling, the characters are believable, the interactions between the characters are dramatic without being over the top. I still don't much care for the setup of the story but now that we're in it, I really like the story-telling that's going on.
I don't imagine "my" Statesman to be a semi-arrogant boss who takes his leadership qualities for granted and who people look up to out of habit. I CAN, however, imagine that it could be that way. The sub-text, that Manticore himself is a natural leader being over-shadowed by the "hero-worship" everyone feels for Statesman, is an interesting one to explore. How many "natural" heroes are there out there right now who are realizing "Hey, I could be a FIRST stringer now!"? I can easily imagine Statesman, the best of the best, thinking that he has to solve the problem alone and acting accordingly. He wouldn't consider himself arrogant. He's got some 70-odd years as a Hero and is arguably the most experienced guy around at this work. He could probably use a bit of enlightenment as to how the younger generations view him and his work.
As for the last page, I'm betting that Manticore knows his mythology and is gambling that Prometheus did a "complete number" on "Zeus". We'll see what happens at dawn.
The comic's art is much better. It certainly has a "real comic" feel to it. The Zeus thing was a horrible mistake IMHO. It really left me with a bad taste in my mouth. It really ruined the whole story for me. We'll see what happens in the future.
My friend said it best "I would have shot him too".
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My main concern is that my worst fear has been realized. Similar to DC and Marvel, and with no offense intended to anyone, Top Cow basically removed any black character. So with Horus gone, no story arc with the Brawler, CoH comic is now just like the mainstream comics, devoid of anyone of African descent. So while playing the game is great in that it allows for diversity, the same cannot be said of the comic.
While it is free, I'll just be using it for fireplace fodder unless I see some changes...
And for what its worth, I thought the first story arc in the initial comic book held truer to the game.
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Geez, overreact much? Just because Top Cow comic hasn't used Back Alley Brawler in the first TWO issues yet doesn't mean they're "removed all black people" from the universe.
In fact, you're wrong. Aurora Borealis is there (in a sense). She's black. We see an image of her at one point and her the echo of her personality constantly bickering in Sister Psyche's head.
I just have one observation to add to this post:
Manticore - A grim millionaire who uses his brain and devises to fight crime. A natural leader who can get things done, despite his apparent lack of 'super powers.'
Statesman - A larger than life symbol of all that is good and pure. With almost godlike abilities and strength, he can be a bit holier-than-thou, though well intentioned. Everyone looks to him for leadership mostly because of this larger than life persona.
I'm sorry, but aren't these two just Batman and Superman?
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Meh. Sorry, War Witch. It WAS your fault. If you didn't know how to handle that oversized match stick in a hazardous setting you shouldn't have been using it.
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Heh, not to mention she's a Blaster, and shouldn't have been running around trying to melee everything all the time to begin with. 
I liked the previous series a bit better. Having recently started the game before the 1st issue came out, I could identify with the new Heroes and the powers they were using. Maybe it just arrived at the right time for me, but I'd read it thinking "hey I have that power" or "that must be xxx power he's using"
In this version of the comic, I am much less able to identify with the main characters.
No offense to the authors intended because I dont think its written poorly but - while I dont need my protagonist to be warm and cuddly - a rich azzhat type of a person is not someone Id chose to associate with. So from the start, Im not pulled along. If Im not too thrilled but the guy, what do I care if he succeeds or fails?
I also am not too keen on the portrayal of the Statesman as being incredibly arrogant and dictatorial. Maybe the guys just under a lot of stress, but he comes across as being a complete jerk to me. Perhaps thats the way he really is ment to be in the CoH world, but thats not how I pictured him. There was a quote in issue 2 along the lines of he has earned the right to be arrogant and thats a philosophy with which I strongly disagree. It doesnt exactly sound heroic to me.
The intent in this series might be to portray the eight as having human foibles or as having darkity dark dark issues in order to make them more interesting but I prefer my Heroes to be, well, heroic and to be a cut above the rest. They dont need to have such great strength/ ability that they then have to have a great weakness/ character flaw so net net they are average.
edit: forget to add... Will I read the the rest of the comics in this new series? Of course. 
I thought about this yesterday. I often wonder what, COH, may spawn in terms of comics/movies. 180,000 people rushing out to see a COH movie or buy a new comic book isn't going to make a hit. Though they did make a sequel to Tomb Raider flick. If there is a market for one COH medium other than the game, even if it is a free comic, this is what it needs to make Paragon seem REAL.
1) What is everyone buying from Crey? How come they have tons of money? Can a regular person on the street by their bio-engineering for a few bucks everyday or do they make a few sales a month worth millions each?
2) How do 9 or 10 villain groups appeal to hundreds of people...people who are probably our sons, brothers, even mothers and fathers?
3) Make it minimal. There cannot be 180,000 heroes running around one town. Also, perhaps rather than every villain group having 100s of members (necessary for the game-play) maybe in fictional accounts some groups are just a few guys with lotsa underworld influence. I picture the Warriors as may 7 or 8 giant, bad mamma-jammas.
4). Fire Wa11. (Just kidding...of my super heroes, I struggle with his storyline the most, though I think the Tourniggens are pretty sexy: http://discussion.thedarwin.com/cgi-...num=1112559100
Can't remember the other things I was thinking. What can I say? It's summer.
There's no way Stateman is dead. In the first comic he was shot repeatedly after everyone lost his powers. That didn't kill him. In the second comic Manticore shot him in the sternum. I'm sure Manticore knows that the human heart is over on the left a bit, or a little over on the right from his firing perspective.
I guess Manticore wanted to prove he would shoot Statesman in the breastbone for some reason. Yeah! That'll learn him!
The only one I can call a hero right now is Positron. All he wanted to do is keep away from everyone so that he wouldn't kill them with his leaky anti-matter. That's much more heroic that walking around being threatened by Manticore. Maybe he's looking for the right time and place to explode so he can perform one last heroic deed.
Overall, I'm not impressed. I could rant for days, but I'd rather see if #3 is going to wrap everything up.
Issue 23: All your base are belong to us?
I really liked the sillyness of the blue king comics. And as somebody else pointed out, they were what you'd expect for being free. Though, I'm still trying to figure out what a level 15 is doing fighting Carnies. As for the top cow comics...
The storyline does feel VERY rushed. They've just lost their powers (BIG crisis) and it looks like in the next issue their gonna get them back (anti-climatic)? I just can't get a feel for the story here because every time I do, we skip to something else.
As for the characters:
Manticore was ok. Seems like he has just the right amount of arrogance for a leader, and a willingness to lead when needed. So I enjoyed most of what I saw of him.
I loved Sister Psyche (when don't I). I thought she was written just the way you'd expect for somebody to abruptly lose her powers and gain an extra voice in her head to top it off. She seems to be feeling very vulnerable and looking for guidance.
Synapse was a little pissant, but again, understandable considering his past. Still, I think he coulda reacted a little better to people he calls friends. He seems to pick up a bit in the second comic.
Positron...well, dunno. He doesn't say or do a whole lot.
And finally, the big guy himself. Statesman. I just didn't like him. He seems to be acting like the biggest jerk to his teammates and friends and I really don't see why they still look up to him.
So, with the character synapsis done, I think I'm trying to say that I would like the comic if the story didn't seem so rushed and mixed up. And the whole god thing was expected with what little I knew of the COH backstory, though I wish that was never introduced to begin with.
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My main concern is that my worst fear has been realized. Similar to DC and Marvel, and with no offense intended to anyone, Top Cow basically removed any black character. So with Horus gone, no story arc with the Brawler, CoH comic is now just like the mainstream comics, devoid of anyone of African descent. So while playing the game is great in that it allows for diversity, the same cannot be said of the comic.
While it is free, I'll just be using it for fireplace fodder unless I see some changes...
And for what its worth, I thought the first story arc in the initial comic book held truer to the game.
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I agree with you why isn't the Brawler with the team??? But at the same time I ask where is Numina, and Ms. Liberty, and the Woodsman, some of the other characters that we have know and loved?
Mastoid lvl 50 ss/inv tank Freedom
The Solar Sentinal lvl 2 ss/fire tank Freedom
Steel Bus lvl 34 ss/inv tank Virtue
War Tide lvl 6 axe/inv tank Triumph
I think we are missing one very WEIRD aspect of the new comic and if it is not addressed in this thread I threaten to start a new thread just on this issue.
Statesman gets mad when the others free him from the Vahs and Crey who are whupping his butt.
Statesman said it was helping him meditate. This is cut and dried folks. Statesman is a masochist. That's a fact. He's going to be dating Pin-Head in the next issue. I GOR-ONE-TEE.
I like them. I hadn't noticed a rushed pace. Clearly, they're (the heroes) in a hurry to figure things out. There's a sense of real danger and vulnerability, which is nice. Some good humor. Some mysteries to play out.
The side trip into Greek mythology is odd. If you're going to do it, at least get it right: Prometheus was a titan, not a god, IIRC.
Nice to see the least super-powered hero taking the lead, like Batman or Green Arrow.
And -- I'm going out on a limb here -- I'll bet that Statesman isn't really dead.
Add some pretty good art and a beat you can dance to: I'm satisfied.
Oh, and I liked the interview with Positron in the back.
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Keep in mind that this is my OPINION. I'm not saying the new comic is good or bad, just what I think.
First of all, I loved the Blue King comics. It had a good blend of action and comedy, the two things I look for in anything I read (cept for Wheel of Time, that doesn't need comedy to be cool). I liked the characters and the dialouge and thought it went really well with the storyline, as in it could have happened in the game without affecting any of us players.
The new comics... suck. They have no comedy at all and they don't have HEROES! These guys are not the Freedom Phalanx I imagine. I always thought that the greatest of the heroes in the city of heroes would be... not losers. Sister Psyche is a crazy lady, Manticore is a jerk, and Synapse is some trailer trash whack job. Positron is the only one I saw as heroic, trying to keep the rest of the team away so they don't get hurt.
And how can you have a super hero comic without super powers?! I always thought that was the basis for the whole thing, but I guess not. I don't know about you guys, but I don't find internal struggles that take up an entire comic as fun.
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You're not being fair in your evaluation of the Freedom Phalanx in this story.
When it all first started, they let random, nameless ROOKIES help them fight a combination Clockwork attack/Gang war. They humbly fought alongside these puny low-security-level Scrappers and blasters against what should have been a somewhat simple task. Then these rookies start DYING all around them. Then their own powers failed, they could not save these poor kids and barely had the means to save THEMSELVES.
Now zip ahead in time a little....
I don't know if you realize, but if you had a "flicker" of someone always yelling at you in the back of your head no matter WHAT actions you did or medications you took, wouldn't you go a little crazy/paranoid? I certainly would. Give Sister Psyche a break, not only did she lose her powers AND watch those who followed her die, she also has to deal with 2 people in her head.
Then there's Synapse, this guy was [censored] by Crey with SICK eletrical torture and he can't sue Crey because they'll either buy out the courts or silence anyone who'd help him. He found solace in the fact that he could help people with these powers, these same powers would also protect himself from ever coming to harm. Now without these powers, he can't help people, he can't even save HIMSELF should Crey ever decide to hunt him down. He's got something legitimate to fear, I don't blame him for becoming a suspicious shut-in.
Manticore, I can't defend this guy too well, he IS a little arrogant being a rich boy, but he does want to seem to help his teammates, not just himself. He doesn't understand the pain everyone else has gone through because he's just a guy with a bow and souped-up arrows.