New Comic Series: My Opinion... What's Yours?
By
Adept,
Posted on: 2005-06-14 15:28 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
I like the old series better. So far, I don't like the new one at all. I stopped reading the second issue halfway through. It just couldn't keep my interest.
[/ QUOTE ]
To be honest, I don't much like either of them.
The first series had amateur artwork and cheesy dialogue, but admittedly a certain charm from time to time.
The "new" series is professional-quality, but the actual content is boring and hard to care about.
The only thing that even piqued my interest in the slightest was the unexpected twist at the end of Issue #2... but I'm sure that it will all be negated in Issue #3, so what does it matter?
I don't mean to sound negative, simply honest. Maybe the series hasn't been around long enough to "grow into itself" and have the characters properly establish themselves yet. Maybe it just needs more time.
But it's definitely not a highlight of my 25+ years of reading and collecting comic books.
I wonder what J. Michael Stracynzki would do with the series.
[ QUOTE ]
I absolutly love the last page of the comic where he **spoilers****spoilers*** shoots Statesman in the heart.
[/ QUOTE ]
Did he really shoot Statesman in the heart? It looked a little off center to me. I suspect that Manticore probably aimed his shot to miss the vital organs. The shot isn't fatal, but it still quite effectively puts Prometheus to task.
FireWild - lv 50 Fire/Fire Blaster (Justice)
FyreWyld - lv 40 Energy/Energy Brute (Justice)
... and way too many others
I liked the old one, I like the new one. The old one felt more in tune with the game, where the new one feels like it's trying to stand more on it's own as a comic rather than a tie-in.
I personally see room for both, but I understand with production costs et al....maybe the first could come back in a web version?
Nothing against the great art in the first one, but I do love the new art.
As far as the no black heroes, I try to look beyond such things as ethnicity...
[ QUOTE ]
It will also introduce an upcoming gameplay feature.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A specific threat will force him to get more actively involved.
[/ QUOTE ]
Croatoa? Red caps?
My Pre-Order Coh box.
My character in coh beta.
My character in a coh beta mission.
My 2 cents.
I find the production values of the new series to be much superior than of Blue Kings.
The problem I had with Blue King's is I had trouble identifying or caring about the characters. I started to like Horus a lot, but War Witch and Apex never engendered much excitement or caring in me.
I have to agree with what several of the posters have said. Mark seems to have missed the boat on several levels. Anyone that has gone through the trials that the Rikti war caused and that the surviving eight experienced would have/should have brought those folks together in ways very few people can imagine. They did not act like they have gone through war together, that they have risked their lives numerous times for each other, that they trusted each other implicitly that one would need to in a team setting with such high stakes. This struck me as very strange and did not seem as if they were genuine.
Secondly, one motif that is well represented over and over in the comics is that is the power that makes the hero or the heart? Clearly in order for a true hero to be a hero it exists within their heart. With the exception of Synapse's mental problems as a plausible excuse, I did not get the impression that these heroes were heroes at all when their powers were taken away. That makes them hard to believe in them as Superheroes. Hero: see Capt America. While he has some powers, to me he embodies what a hero really is. It is in his heart and no one can question that.
After reading the first 2 stories, I found it extremely disjointed and hard to follow. It did not "flow". I have been tempted to pull out some of my favorite comics from the early 80s and actualy do a panel count, because to me it seems like they are trying to stuff to much material in to few pages/panels.
If this is the trend in comics today, I understand why they are dying. I really don't care if its on glossy paper, I never minded that the stories were on newsprint. Sure there are art limitations with it, but to me story was almost always more important than the art. If pages and panels are being sacrificed due to cost of the nicer paper and the actual art costs of the panels (which in general are very nice), than I think the overall book is sufferring significantly. These stories seem way to short to what I am accustomed to, and like. I would not buy these off the shelf with so little actual material.
Lastly, I feel a bit betrayed by Statesman as he has always stated he was a natural hero that got his powers through his "inner will". It seems his powers are magic based. The powers of Zeus are magical are they not????
The one thing I liked about the Blue King series was that it put the player heros on the same level as the comic heroes. They fought the same bad guys we fought and indeed, even teamed up with some player characters who were fortunate enough to play cameo roles. When playing, I felt like I was battling in the same world and by proxy felt more connected to the comic.
This new series though, is all about the Freedom Phalanx and it just doesn't provide the same satisfaction even if I do like the art and writing better.
Maybe things will be different when CoV comes out, but for now I might as well be reading JLA or XMen.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
[ QUOTE ]
I guess Manticore wanted to prove he would shoot Statesman in the breastbone for some reason. Yeah! That'll learn him!
[/ QUOTE ]
The only reason that Manticore shot Statesman was to demonstrate to Prometheus that he was willing to side with him instead of "Zeus". Prometheus said that he would help those who weren't "friends of Zeus" and Manticore called him out on it. He didn't fire his arrow out for petty revenge, he was doing what he felt had to be done in order to get everyone powered up again.
Another thought -- Manticore looks an awful lot like the Darkness. Are they brothers?
FireWild - lv 50 Fire/Fire Blaster (Justice)
FyreWyld - lv 40 Energy/Energy Brute (Justice)
... and way too many others
[ QUOTE ]
My main concern is that my worst fear has been realized. Similar to DC and Marvel, and with no offense intended to anyone, Top Cow basically removed any black character. So with Horus gone, no story arc with the Brawler, CoH comic is now just like the mainstream comics, devoid of anyone of African descent. So while playing the game is great in that it allows for diversity, the same cannot be said of the comic.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't judge your comic book heroes by the color of their skin, judge them by the content of their characters.
(Which, for this crew, are pretty flimsy. 'Cept for Posi, whose ethnicity is unknown.)
I don't mean this to trivialize Dr. King's message, by the way. I think a large part of his point was that we shouldn't *care* about ethnicity in any part of life -- work, school, comics, whatever.
Also, for what it's worth, according to the 2000 Census, Rhode Island's not the most diverse place:
81.9% White
8.7% Hispanic
4.5% Black
2.3% Asian
0.5% American Indian
2.7% mixed race
So, ignoring the whole changing-of-history-going-back-to-whaling-days thing that the devs did to create Paragon City, demographically it's not out of the lines of reason to have no minority members of a five-hero cast of characters.
[ QUOTE ]
DIVERSITY-NAZI's!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
No apostrophe is necessary to make "Nazi" plural. Thank your friendly neighborhood grammar Nazi. 
Sailboat
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Although I respect your Point of View, I can't agree. I like the fact that they are laying new ground work. And Frankly, Manticore is my new favorite hero.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess Manticore wanted to prove he would shoot Statesman in the breastbone for some reason. Yeah! That'll learn him!
[/ QUOTE ]
The only reason that Manticore shot Statesman was to demonstrate to Prometheus that he was willing to side with him instead of "Zeus". Prometheus said that he would help those who weren't "friends of Zeus" and Manticore called him out on it. He didn't fire his arrow out for petty revenge, he was doing what he felt had to be done in order to get everyone powered up again.
Another thought -- Manticore looks an awful lot like the Darkness. Are they brothers?
[/ QUOTE ]
Alright, I'll buy that. When Manticore threatened to blow up Positron I had to question his sanity, since he wasn't bluffing.
Did anyone else look at Prometheus and think, "Why does Prometheus need a starship?"
I'm resisting the urge to write a parody. The third issue has a lot of 'splaining to do.
Issue 23: All your base are belong to us?
[ QUOTE ]
Also, for what it's worth, according to the 2000 Census, Rhode Island's not the most diverse place:
81.9% White
8.7% Hispanic
4.5% Black
2.3% Asian
0.5% American Indian
2.7% mixed race
[/ QUOTE ]
What percent Kheldian? Extradimensional? Demonic? Robot? Elvish? Shoulder Kitten?
Heehee, I think the "demographics" of Paragon City defy analysis.
And regarding the issue that started this particular line of discussion, while I'm certainly in favoir of minority heroes, are we (regular humans) not ALL believed to be of African descent? Africa is the mother continent to all hominids. Two opposable thumbs up!
Sailboat
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, back to the point: why wasn't the BAB included in this story arc? He is, apparently, part of the team---or am I wrong in this? If he's part of the team, then his omission from the story seems strange and the OP has legitimate cause to wonder er WHY?
So, to sum up: better story, better art--still not as good as the old series. And, er, why isn't BAB in the Story??
Cal2
[/ QUOTE ]
The Back Alley Brawler is primarily associated with the group he used to lead, the Regulators. He worked with the Freedom Phalanx during the Rikti War but has been in semi-retirement for some time.
As I said in my previous post however, the Brawler will be the main character of a story-arc that will start in issue #7. A specific threat will force him to get more actively involved.
[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't Back Alley Brawler also the CEO of Hero Corps?
Also, since BAB is gonna be the main character of the arc, does that mean we'll see Blue Steel with him?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As I said in my previous post however, the Brawler will be the main character of a story-arc that will start in issue #7. A specific threat will force him to get more actively involved.
[/ QUOTE ]
My money's still on the cheerleaders. 
[/ QUOTE ]
Buffy the Vampire slayer, anyone? Those cheerleaders are probably planning some world-destroying ritual.
And Sailboat, Khelidans would fall under mixed race.
The others are not counted as a race for purposes of the Census.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
As I said in my previous post however, [character name] will be the main character of a story-arc that will start in issue #7. A specific threat will force him to get more actively involved.
[/ QUOTE ]
The next great Manticore quote to be repeated ad infinitum
Insert hero name of your choice, and possibly issue # of your choice
[ QUOTE ]
Greetings all,
I just wanted to take a minute to let you all know that your voices are being heard.
We wanted to start the re-launch of the comic with a bang. Mark, Jack and I came up with the no mediport plotline together. We didn't force it on him and he didn't force it on us. Rest assured that the heroes will come through this test unified and changed. Issue #3 will end this arc. In Issue #4 Troy Hickman (of Common Grounds fame) will be telling a more classic super-team story. Starting in Issue #7 Dan Jurgens will write a story-arc that features the Back Alley Brawler as the main character. It will also introduce an upcoming gameplay feature.
We plan on showing a lot of different sides of Paragon City and the characters in it. Some of it will be dark, some of it less so, just like the stories we tell in the game.
As always, thanks for your interest and passion.
~M
PS More about Statesman's origin will be found...you know the rest! 
[/ QUOTE ]
So far the new comic is leaps and bounds better than the old one. I love that parts of it are "darker" and "edgier".
Kudos to everyone who has contributed. 
[ QUOTE ]
Well, this is one of those things where what works good in a video game might not necessarily do well in contributing to a dramatic story- the medi-port system is a prime example of that.
If no one can die, where's the risk? And I do believe is says this much in the first issue as well...
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. Given that the 'port system can be used to capture heroes instead, I suppose being thrown into prison to be horribly tortured or experimented upon at a later date is *much* less risky than death.
While the current comic isn't quite what I hoped for, a comic that I would be very interested in would be a hefty graphic novel set around the time Statesman comes back to clean up town. Back when he wore the domino mask.
Following that the novel would chronicle parts of his life over the next few decades (and costume changes) using time slices of important but linked events to develop the character, the personality and the legend. Also showing when he first met his closest allies among other tidbits, all of which set the stage for current day Paragon and create the sense of epic iconic superheroism that comes with it. The tale could be told through the eyes of a third party observers.
In addition perhaps with some allusions to Lord Recluse and Arachnos forming in the background over time in subtle ways would be very nice too (setting the stage for the next issue).
Basically, I am thinking something in the style of "Marvels" and "Kingdom Come" (these are two favorites if you couldn't tell). The writing could lend itself well if it were written by Kurt Busiek and Mark Waid, the folks that did the aforementioned novels in the first place. And it wouldn't be complete without Alex Ross's artwork.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As I said in my previous post however, the Brawler will be the main character of a story-arc that will start in issue #7. A specific threat will force him to get more actively involved.
[/ QUOTE ]
If there was a mission that you fought side by side with Brawler would be pretty cool.
[/ QUOTE ]
This really is the coolest mission that doesn't exist.
Break in, rescue %Freedom Phlanx Member%, fight your way out the exit as the "sidekick".
It would be the most cool way to earn your Freedom Phlanx Reserve Membership.
Still here, even after all this time!
Replying to the red-name post since there are already people calling other people nazis and thus destined for removal of posts.
In the time honored tradition of you cant please everyone, I have to say that it seems that some of you are taking the comic a wee bit too seriously.
Do you stop every crime you see as you wage your holy crusade against the evil of Paragon?
On your way through Eden to get your Hammios do you thrash every bunch of Crey, or DE mobs you come across?
No, not likely.
You leave them for someone else.
I can practically guarantee its not even because some other hero will do it. (Which is pretty non heroic in and of itself.)
Its because as Positron himself said, those guys are all grey.
So really, some suspension of disbelief is in order here.
I enjoyed the opening scenes of the new series because I felt it was in fact spot on.
All the heroes are effectively immortal, some even more so than their powers would entail, and since the villains are too, no one really uses much restraint in their power usage.
I cant count how many times I have slashed, eviscerated, or split open my opponents head while I merrily go on my way. Could or would I do that if I knew that what I was doing was fatal? Maybe, maybe not depends on the character.
How often do you get KOd in CoH? I when not playing my scrappers, who tend to eat floor more because I like to push my boundaries, I do usually eat at the dirt café once every few sessions. Maybe more if we are doing a TF or Trial. You know what I do when that happens?
Nothing
I wait till the rest of the team mops up to pop an awaken or accept a res from a team-mate.
Maybe if it was particularly stupid of me or others on the team I will be annoyed but beyond that I really dont care too much.
This general disregard is exactly what the opening scene shows, (not liking the tie-in doesnt make it any less a tie-in) and even the greatest of Paragons heros arent immune to it.
Its easy to fight crime when you know that you are stronger or faster or immortal. Thats not what makes you a hero.
The characters in the comic have lost sight of what made them heroes and are trying to get it back.
Is that a little ambitions for a 3 comic arc?
Probably but thats what we have.
Not all heroes are particularly heroic, and they all have their own reasons for putting on the costume not all of them are even good reasons, some reasons may even be quite bad. Even the heroric ones can still have personality flaws.
Superman is usually seen as the Boyscout but he would like nothing better than to be able to punch Lex Luthor in the face every single time he sees him, and sees Lexs every action through paranoia tinted glasses. Does that diminish Superman as a hero? Maybe maybe not, but it has more than once caused a lot of problems for him.
Batman would like to think that every thug he pounds into the street is one less kid who sees his parents shot in the street, but even more hed like to have had his dad pound Joe Chill into the street of that alley. Does that diminish him as a hero? Maybe, maybe not, but which would you choose life as a rich kid with a great family life or a obsessive compulsive skitzo who has to go out and pound on people to find some semblance of inner peace?
Some people like Superman, some people like Batman. Some like both.
Are there plot holes in the story? Yes there always are
see my previous statement about suspension of disbelief.
Positron is still dangerous because he is still made of antimatter, (that didnt change any more than the length of Manticores hair did when the spell was cast) but no longer has the ability to control it.
(Maybe Im wrong here but this is the impression that I get.)
Sister Psyches host, without her powers is not able to maintain personality dominance in her own body which is why she is going crazy,
Synapse, apparently bases his whole self identity on his powers, is it a little lame? Yeah but it happens, he was fairly traumatized by Crey.
Mantacore (in the comic) is a bit of a butthead as mentioned by a previous poster but every team has one.
Is it really any surprise that the citizens were nonchalant about the heroes departure?
If you had super powered thugs running around destroying your town and they were constantly being either ignored by heroes or furiously engaged by other heroes you would probably be pretty happy that all of them were gone too so you could live a normal life?
I highly doubt that the writers of the comic have distain for either the game or you personally, nor are they likely trying to ensure that your ethnicity/religion/creed/sex are marginalized; they are just trying to tell a story that appeals to them and hopefully you as well.
So enjoy it, or dont and even feel free to discuss how you dont like it but try and keep the persecution rap to a minimum please.
Very good post. Definitely 5 star worthy.
If this is all that Mark Waid can accomplish with COH, we need to get rid of him. I don't care how good he supposedly is with other comics. His work here makes me suspect the rest of his "work" is also just as substandard.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
Not sure if anyone already mentioned it or not, but Aurora Borealis, the other personality that's in there with Shalice/Sister Psyche's head, is black. At least she looks it, and her husband is, so probably, though they could always say otherwise at some point. (wonders if that counts for diversity)
I thought the first issue was interesting, but they lost me when they went into the Olympus dimension and started arguing with Prometheus. Two issues in and they technically aren't even in Paragon anymore!
Yeah the Blue King series was cheesy, but at least it gave us the word "zombots" and one issue had Weevil talking!
If I wasn't getting them for free, I wouldn't buy either. Except for the issues where people I know are in them.
[ QUOTE ]
I highly doubt that the writers of the comic have distain for either the game or you personally, nor are they likely trying to ensure that your ethnicity/religion/creed/sex are marginalized; they are just trying to tell a story that appeals to them and hopefully you as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, the only thing I have disdain for is debt, and it has become my mortal foe...
Troy
Troy Hickman - So proud to have contributed to and played in this wonderful CoH universe
[ QUOTE ]
The Back Alley Brawler is primarily associated with the group he used to lead, the Regulators. He worked with the Freedom Phalanx during the Rikti War but has been in semi-retirement for some time.
As I said in my previous post however, the Brawler will be the main character of a story-arc that will start in issue #7. A specific threat will force him to get more actively involved.
[/ QUOTE ]
It seems to me like there are a lot of heroes with sidekicks and subgroups and partners of their own. Can we maybe get a geneology tree or something? At the top are the Phalanx members, and then how each of them relate to their own groups of heroes. Because everyone's got a name and a badge and an affiliation of their own, and I can't seem to follow it all.
-Magess