New Comic Series: My Opinion... What's Yours?
By
Adept,
Posted on: 2005-06-14 15:28 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I agree with you why isn't the Brawler with the team??? But at the same time I ask where is Numina, and Ms. Liberty, and the Woodsman, some of the other characters that we have know and loved?
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None of those characters are members of the Freedom Phalanx. The Back Alley Brawler, for example, is the leader of The Regulators, most of whom were killed during the Rikti War. He and the other trainers are sort of "associate members" of the Phalanx but are not actually on the team. The Phalanx members you meet in-game are primarily task force contacts. The trainers are famous but not neccesarily relevant to the activities of the Freedom Phalanx.
Personally, I liked the first series a lot better. It seemed like people were having fun writing it, sneaking in pictures of actual players, "MMORPG", and stuff like that.
This new series is just plain terrible: two issues about not having powers? Didn't we already run that into the ground with Iron Man running out of juice all the time in the 1970s?
Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster. -seebs, "How to Suck at CoH/CoV" Guide
Ok, I'm not going to bother with the *SPOILER* tags and whatnot in this post, as it's far enough down in this thread that anyone reading it has either read the comic or doesn't mind spoilers.
As far as States being arrogant, keep in mind that he said he absorbed some of Zeus's spirit as well. Zeus wasn't exactly a humble god by any stretch of the imagination, and arrogance/pride were considered classical heroic virtues in Greek mythology.
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OK I've been debating saying this, but I might as well.
I am not a fan of the new comic. The story feels extremely rushed to me. Within several pages of issue 1 they took 2 main concepts of CoH (Super Powers & the hospital teleports) & completely turned them on their ears. Then by Issue 2, we've (((SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER))) learned Statesman's origin & gone to another plane of perception to speak to Prometheus to restore everyone's powers. That coupled with the fact that not-one of the heroes is likeable in my opinion or has had any type of substantial development, renders this comic very sub-par so far.
I'll keep reading it since, well, it's like free and stuff (hehe), but I really hope it gets better cause I've been very disappointed so far.
Am I the only one that isn't digging it?
Thanks,
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Agree 100%
I like the old series better. So far, I don't like the new one at all. I stopped reading the second issue halfway through. It just couldn't keep my interest.
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I think we are missing one very WEIRD aspect of the new comic and if it is not addressed in this thread I threaten to start a new thread just on this issue.
Statesman gets mad when the others free him from the Vahs and Crey who are whupping his butt.
Statesman said it was helping him meditate. This is cut and dried folks. Statesman is a masochist. That's a fact. He's going to be dating Pin-Head in the next issue. I GOR-ONE-TEE.
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You know, that was the first thing I thought when I saw that. "Statesman's into some seriously kinky stuff!"
Then, having obviously failed to leave a spiffy holographic note ("Dear Team, I have gone to get some strict discipline from Mistress Cynthia, will be back soon."), he chews out his "friends" who came to get him out of his predicament.
The biggest turn-off for me so far has definitely beenn the first issue's "We're superheroes! Oops, now we aren't!" and the second issue's shark-jumptastic "oh look, gods". It takes most comic series a while to reach that point.
--Raven Herald
Justice Machine
Level 50 Empathy/Dark Defender
"Together we shall rule Paragon City ignoring the broadcast spam leetness from the crapulous scrankblappers. Good luck fools." - raucity, speaking for Defenders who've had enough from the "plz h341 m3" crowd.
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Agree 100%
I like the old series better. So far, I don't like the new one at all. I stopped reading the second issue halfway through. It just couldn't keep my interest.
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Wow.. I have ADD and I had no problem reading the whole thing.
You, sir, have some major issues. Maybe you should go see a doctor?
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My main concern is that my worst fear has been realized. Similar to DC and Marvel, and with no offense intended to anyone, Top Cow basically removed any black character. So with Horus gone, no story arc with the Brawler, CoH comic is now just like the mainstream comics, devoid of anyone of African descent. So while playing the game is great in that it allows for diversity, the same cannot be said of the comic.
While it is free, I'll just be using it for fireplace fodder unless I see some changes...
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oh my god...
ok, first of all, the dude all made of antimatter is enclosed in a suit of armor to contain his anti-matter energy, so he certainly COULD be black. Or asian. Or native american. Or a woman, for that matter. Secondly, your judgement on whether or not a comic is any good depends entirely on whether it conforms to a specific racial ratio? Do you use the same criteria for musical groups? What if it was ALL african-Paragonians, would THAT be offensive, too? How about movies? Is Casablanca crap because the only black character is in a "servile" role to the two protagonists?
Give me a frigging break. Oh, and in case you haven't looked in, say, the last umpteen years, there are a pretty decent number of heroes in both DC and Marvel of non-white descent. Hey, maybe you should protest the lack of any aggressively homosexual characters, too.
AAARRRGHGHGHGHGHHHH!!! GOD I HATE DIVERSITY-NAZI's!!!
By the way, I very much like the new comic series. I won't even COMPARE it to the cheese-filled, forcedly-parallel, hideously-dialogued abortion that was the previous comic. The one that made me feel like all the old stereotypes about comic-readers being 12 were true.
Good job on the new 'zine, guys. Keep 'em comin'.
personally, i didnt like the original series much because i felt that the writers and artists were a little too "kill-happy", and callous about showing people (especially unnamed heroes) run through the heart, or smashed under falling objects, and so on. most of it was in the background, but it was there.
i -detest- the new comics for that very reason.
that, and the writer (mark waid, i believe) has, in my opinion, gone out of his way to insult and demean every single hero in paragon city.
that means you. and me.
*spoilers spoilers blah blah blah*
its -clear- in manticores opening monologue that, the way the stories are told, the heroes of paragon city have come to rely on the mediport system so much that its all just a big game to them.
that none of them believe that there are consequences to their actions.
that means that none of them (meaning your characters and mine) -care- if civilians get maimed or killed.
he also wrote the story in such a way that the surviving eight are all, with one exception (positron) a bunch of self-centered, arrogant, uncaring jerks who despite having worked together for years and years, cant open up to each other enough to give each other the time of day.
i have a better interpersonal relationship with my a.t.m. than these people do with each other.
i also cant overlook the conceit that the comic, which is supposed to be something that we, the players, can "connect to", starts off with an event that can never, and SHOULD never, happen in the game. the mediport system going down is impossible in the game, and well it should be. the game system itself is not designed to differentiate between stunning / temporary damage, and killing / lethal damage in any real context. players d not have a choice of what kind of damage their attacks do. its all a matter of behind-the-screen player "rp" decisions, with no game mechanical impact.
which means that the game operating system doesnt know, or care, if we are playing genuine heroes who preserve life, or rapacious vigilantes who kill their enemies callously. (i have a bias. this is all about my opinion. if youre a vigilante who kills most of your foes, i dont think youre really much of a hero. thats not the point of this post, so lets move on). the game therefore would register any hero who was defeated after the mediport system went down as "killed", and no -way- is that ever going to happen. bad business
furthermore, the surviving eight are portrayed in the comic as being practically intolerable as people. when peoples powers shut off, they -stop- being heroes, and start to bicker, whine, and tear at each other like petulant children. statesman most of all. manticore is portrayed as arrogant, and hard-headed, but at least hes -trying- to help the people around him, and keep the team together. statesman, allegedly the "best of us", walks away and dives into the seamy world of upside-down chain-bondage s&m...with -vahzilok-!!! and other unsavory types. this damages his credibility. badly.
(the vahz kill people. alot. he has no powers. hes tied up. how DUMB can he have been to let himself end up that way??)
plus, when his friends come in to rescue him from forces that years of experience have taught them have -no- regard for anything but themselves, and kill for fun and pleasure (and parts...and possibly food), statesman (their old leader and the best of the best, remember) yells at them and calls them, his friends and teammates, "idiots".
because -he- didnt tell them his plan.
why didnt he tell them his plan; to let himself get tied up and tortured by murderous villains, all in an attempt to "meditate"?
because its a STUPID PLAN!!
out of all of them, positron seems all right. a little quiet, but at -least- he had the decency to back off and try to keep his friends from getting killed in the blast, if his containment suit ruptured. although, if all the heroes of paragon city have lost their powers WHY does he still need a containment suit? why is he bleeding energy? shouldnt that have shut off, too?
sister psyche has a second person in her head, and its driving her nuts. so...like...how did having powers help with this? and shoudnt the second person in her head have gone away when the powers did? just like positrons energy manifestations should have? this doesnt make sense to me.
synapse has a great name and a great costume. but hes a total jerk. yes, he was tortured by crey ind. he should have gotten professional help -long- ago after suffering through a trauma like that. (i did). and again, hes not behaving as a hero would. you say "hes been avoiding the pain by helping others when he can use his powers, and now his powers are gone".
why cant he still help others? manticore does. and he doesnt have powers. in fact, -alot- of people were heroes who didnt have super powers...
and on that note, why do an ar / dev blasters rifle and web grenades stop working after the "spell" is cast that removes all powers, but cars still work? that makes no sense, even for "magic" (last refuge of a bad writer is to have something that violates continuity happen and cal it magic, by the way). why are -any- of the "natural" heroes affected. if a device rendered all superpowers inoperable, would you want to face down batman? i wouldnt.
where is back alley brawler? where is mynx? where is swan?
and -why- do the people of paragon city seem -happier- now that the heroes are powerless to defend them?
because its a slap in the face to the players of the mmo, thats why. because the writer either doesnt udnerstand the game, or actively dislikes it. and us. so we are shown to be not the protectors of paragon city, but its thoughtless, selfish tormentors. going about our little games and playing with peoples lives because it amuses us to do so. not because we want to help people.
not because we are heroes.
so the best of the heroes do markedly unheroic things. like manticore callously shooting statesman in the heart.
i wasnt shocked. i wasnt eager to see how the story unfolds.
i was disgusted.
i started getting disgusted when, by page 7, there were heroes and innocents dying by the dozens. when i saw a hero looking at the end of a pipe sticking out of his chest that had -obviously- pierced his heart, with a shocked look because the mediport system hadnt kicked in and he -knew- he was already dead, he just hadnt stopped living yet. (an obvious bit of melodrama, by the way, evocative of the french revolution, when the heads of freshly guillotined victims would be raised aloft for the sick entertainment of the crowd, becaue sometimes they looked around and looked afraid. because they knew they were dead and there was nothing that could save them).
i know that picture was supposed to evoke the shock and surprise at the tables having turned. but i didnt feel that way.
my first thought was "oh gawd, tell me -this- isnt how this is going to be written from now on".
i guess im kind of old-school. i believe that superheroes are heroes first, and "super" second. that its the person -in- the costume that makes a super admirable, not what powers the super has. the powers allow the superhero to live on a larger canvas, to go places and do things on a grander scale. but its the heart of the hero that makes them a true -superhero-.
heroes live by a higher code.
and that means that they value life. even the lives of the corrupt or the fallen. where a mere soldier of fortune or adventurer would kill an enemy, a -hero- will try to save that enemy from the darkness within. to bring them back into the light.
by valuing life, they encourage us to value life too. the best comics were written when writers (and editors) kept death a rarity in the stories. when a death had some -weight- to it because it wasnt a common, everyday event. that way it -was- a shock when gwen stacy died. when jean grey sacrificed herself. when mar-vell succumbed.
but now it seems like -every- character in every comic companys stable has died, at one time or another.
overuse of character death is a cheap marketing ploy. and one that eventually stops working. and when the deaths of heroes, their friends, and their opponents becomes commonplace, there is no "moral compass" anymore.
and thats whats missing from this comic. these characters are -not- heroic. they dont live by a higher code. they arent trying to be the best they can, or giving of themselves to help others. im not saying that they should all be wooden mannequins of saintlyness. not at all. watch the w.b. animated series of batman and superman, and the justice league, and youll see that these characters are portrayed as having doubts, misunderstandings, misgivings, and flaws. and overcoming ones flaws and misconceptions is a large part of being heroic.
but manticore seems to act more out of pig-headedness than anything else (and petty vengance, in the case of the arrow thru the heart). positron was noble enough to try to get people away from himself in case he went nova, but hasnt really said or done much after that. sister psyche and synapse are so self-involved and antisocial that manticore would be far, far better off without them. and statesman is (in the comics, mind you) just an @$$. the rest of the heroes are unwanted, ineffective, and too timid to act, now that there are risks. the citizens hated them all along, it seems, and are glad to be rid of them. (us).
that offends me
heroes in comics dont exist to show us who we are. they exist to show us who we could be. who we -should- be. that its possible for the future to be better than the present.
thats what superhero stories are really about.
the pictures in the new comics are pretty. i like the artists style and the feel of the drawings.
but as image comics repeatedly proved, pretty pictures do not a strong story make.
the heart of comics is storytelling. and thats the writers job.
and the writer of the first two issues of the new city of heroes comics has not done his job well. even if the characters somehow manage to prevail over their current foes, restore the mediport system, and break the enchantment that nullifies powers in paragon city, they still wont be heroes heroes unless, by that point, they are -totally- different people inside than who they are now.
and considering theyre the surviving eight, the best of the best of us, the bravest and most valiant...shouldnt they be heroes inside and out already?
(sorry this went on so long)
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AAARRRGHGHGHGHGHHHH!!! GOD I HATE DIVERSITY-NAZI's!!!
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Diversity-Nazi is such an oxymoron that I weep for the education of people. Seriously, read a book about the 'diversity' of the Nazis.
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Secondly, your judgement on whether or not a comic is any good depends entirely on whether it conforms to a specific racial ratio? Do you use the same criteria for musical groups? What if it was ALL african-Paragonians, would THAT be offensive, too? How about movies? Is Casablanca crap because the only black character is in a "servile" role to the two protagonists?
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Second, when somebody of an ethnic group feels left out, no amount of shouting them down is going to make them feel included. We're not talking about Casablanca, or music groups, we're talking about the City of Heroes comic book so changing the subject shows you are either a bad debater or you know you can't defend the original accusation.
The poster had a complaint and he voiced it. He was letting people know that the dissappearance of Horus and Back Alley Brawler was dissappointing. We went from having a black man being one third of the team to none at all. I know I was dissappointed but I understand that the writer had to work with the characters in the game, who a large portion of happen to be white. If they ever do a Back Alley Brawler story arc, I'd be thrilled. Granted, I won't be thrilled if he is as whiney and self centered as the bunch I'm reading about now 
Now, let's start a rant about how a feminist like me feels about Statesman absorbing the spirit of Zeus, a God most known for fathering children on willing and unwilling women.
/e applauds Mockingbird_V
Even if (as suggested earlier) the Statesman is arrogant & basically a jerk because he drank from a fountain and imbibed Zeus essence, that is merely a reason for his behavior; it does not mean that the behavior itself is good or acceptable. It does not excuse the behavior. To-date in the 2nd series he certainly is not exhibiting any the leadership skills that I would expect from a leader of people.
<shrug> Since I didnt come up with the concept and since I didnt write the material, I can certainly accept that this is just the way he is in the CoH universe and I can also accept that there are a lot of other people that simply view it as edgy.
To me, however, if a person acts like a butthead, talks like a butthead and treats other people as a butthead then, well, hes a butthead. I dont accept the POV that great wo/men can be buttheads due to the tremendous responsibilities they shoulder. Truly great people (heroic people, one might call them) shoulder great responsibilities with grace and tact.
Oh and btw, if the eventual mechanic used to explain why virtually all of the heroes are acting like emotionally crippled azzhats is just that they were under tremendous stress due to losing their powers and the mediport system breaking
unfortunately its actually when the chips are down & the stress is high that you see what people are really made of.
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Statesman said it was helping him meditate. This is cut and dried folks. Statesman is a masochist. That's a fact. He's going to be dating Pin-Head in the next issue. I GOR-ONE-TEE.
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Well, Tyrant has Dominatrix who "serves him faithfully in all capacities"...since he's Statesman's alter-ego, it's not surprising that they have the same, um, hobbies.
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There's no way Stateman is dead. In the first comic he was shot repeatedly after everyone lost his powers. That didn't kill him. In the second comic Manticore shot him in the sternum. I'm sure Manticore knows that the human heart is over on the left a bit, or a little over on the right from his firing perspective.
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Reading the comic, I'm pretty sure that Manticore has some kind of trick lined up. Once Prometheus coughs up the assistance it's going to be revealed that States is not dead and Manticore will have to rely on the re-powered Statezeus to protect him from the pissed-off god he just conned.
I tend to fall on one side or the other of the story, "heroism" and pacing issues, balancing out to be slightly put off by the new series.
But one thing that really bothers me is Stateman's origin. I can deal with the Zeus thing, classic comic book. But he becomes Paragon's (Earth's?) most powerful hero just because he was hiking around and took a drink? How hard was this fountain to find? Why haven't inumerable others also drank from this fountain and become godlike?
I just think that becoming an Incarnate would have been more impressive, involving some proof that you would be worthy of such a mantle of power. Origins don't always have to be long, involved, or profound, but for such an Iconic figure, is that the best that they could come up with? Taking a drink from a fountain he happened upon?
Anyways, I have less and less respect for the Statesman character having read these two issues. Will he redeem himself in the future? Maybe. But my impression of him has changed dramatically for the worst.
While I do enjoy the upgrade to the comic graphics, there are a few things about the story that are annoying me.
I'm wanting to hear more greek mytholgy be hashed out and not seem so... cheesy. For example, Statesman origin, I was expecting something... well more. Its a ok story device with the fountain, but I found the script that used it seemed forced.
Manticore: who do you think you are? some being of ultimate power?
Statesman: Oh hell ya, I drank from some fountain one day and it gave me super powers, I got Zues in me. Oh and I have a person who is my personal villain. Now I've told you more about me in the last two minutes then the entire time I've fought with you guys helping me. Now looked shocked ok.
Manticore: O_O
Manticore: So can we get our powers back for Posi and the Sister?
Statesman: No.Unless...No.
I'm being a bit harsh there but that is kind of what I thought when I read it. There are some panels that I thought were very well done, such as the few with odysseus in them, and a portion of the sister psyche. I think its safe to say the artist *really* likes to make sure she looks near perfect.
Overall I am liking the setup of Positrons character, despite the fact of him being a ticking time bomb, he still manages to give that buzzard one swift punch to the kisser and preform better then everyone else (maybe with the exception of Manticore)
Another thing that bothers me is the fact that States seems to be dying at the end of every comic. [sarcasm]Let me just say that boy I can't wait to see what kind of revive power is used on him.[/sarcasm]
Let me finish off saying that I still enjoy the comic, but that I am finding quite a few things that are annoying to me as a reader to see.
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personally, i didnt like the original series much because i felt that the writers and artists were a little too "kill-happy", and callous about showing people (especially unnamed heroes) run through the heart, or smashed under falling objects, and so on. most of it was in the background, but it was there.
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I don't remember any heroes dying before the end of the old series (and they weren't unnamed). Do you have something in particular you're thinking about?
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that, and the writer (mark waid, i believe) has, in my opinion, gone out of his way to insult and demean every single hero in paragon city.
that means you. and me.
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Agreed. I've felt this way since they put up the first chapter of the first issue as a teaser.
I can see why he wanted to get rid of the mediport system, but I really don't see how it was necessary to remove all powers at the same time, or to kill off dozens of heroes, or to make fun of the game for...being a game. The teleport system in the game isn't perfect; we encounter heroes several times who've died to one thing or another without the teleport system saving them. There's danger there already; point that out, and removing the mediport system isn't that huge of a shift. Certainly not something that requires a "We were all happy, incompetent bunnies...until the day DEATH came!" scene.
This is all just my opinion of course...
The art in the Blue King comics was subpar...the writing was subpar (for the most part). It had an admitted cheese factor. But you know what?
IT FELT LIKE THE FREAKING GAME! And these new comics do not. In the slightest. Like some other posters I am getting a definate impression of disdain by the writer for both the game and it's players. Hey man I know it's a paycheck, but if you can't respect the universe you're writing in (and it's audience) you really shouldn't have taken the gig. I mean c'mon...the heroes who have saved Paragon time and time again all dissapear, and the citizens don't even bat an eyelash? Wow that's some gratitude for you...nice to know all our efforts are so appreciated.
Also Deus Ex Machina is rampant so far. Need something to happen, but you can't come up with a creative way to explain it within the established parameters of the universe you're writing in? No problem man...magic spells and gods...that solves everything. Lazy, lazy writing. And how many freaking times is Statesman going to die?
And, unlike Warwitch, Apex and Horus (as two dimensional as they were) I do not give a rat's a$$ about any of these characters. Positron has all the personality of a brick so far. Synapse is a self-pitying whiner (not to belittle the emotional trauma of torture victims by any means). Manticore I can accept somewhat, allthough he seems to have a serious case of <insert favorite term for male genetalia here>-envy for Statesman. And Statesman is an arrogant domineering a$$hat. I actually was happy when Manticore shot him...too bad I know it won't be permanent. Sister Physce is the only one I can actually care about.
I'm sure it'll get better as time goes by and the Top Cow team gets more of a feel for the subject matter. I have to admit that the art is already a definate improvment over the previous comics. All I can say is thank god this abortion of a story arc will be over after issue 3 and we'll get a new writer and new direction. I will admit that tecnically it's a superiour product to the Blue King stuff...but it's a comic about a game. And it does the game (and it's backstory and "epic heroes") a huge disservice.
On the other hand Mercedes Lackey's story was most excellent Hey Vickie Vee...you interested in writing comic stories?
Again this was all just my opinion.
What gets me is that these are the heroes who existed before there was a mediport system. It was almost as if the history of heroes in Paragon was ignored and for the comic and all of a sudden there is no death in Paragon City.
Thousands of heroes died in the Rikti war and heroes died in World War 2, and people died in the cold war nuclear incident involving Statesman over Finland. Currently, the Circle of Thorns and Council can snatch people off the teleport grids. If this wasn't a non perma-death MMO, that's guranteed death and it probably would be in a comic book.
I like some of the aspects, Manticore (almost like Batman meets the Flash attitude wise) , some of the other characterizations (Synaspe's self loathing in particular), but, well it seems to lack a bit of the spirit in the game, and that could be because the first arc seems rushed. Maybe things with settle down a bit after issue 3 and we can get a more of a feel of why these heroes are iconic. Some Rikti War stories would be nice...oooh especially done "Haunted Tank," "Blackhawk" or "Sgt. Rock" style.
Back on track, I like that there is lots of death in CoH that, if you're of a mind, missions arent' just win/lose. If the Devouring Earth or Malta are involved, it's guranteed that people are going to die if you don't do something.
I know Aracnos and Lord Recluse are going to have to figure prominently, but I am also looking forward to get the rest of CoH in its 4 color glory.
/e applauds Mockingbird_V
The sad thing, to me, is this: I've read a great deal of Mark Waid's writing. I know that he's an amazing story crafter.
This doesn't feel like all that great Mark Waid stuff. Something is really off. Something is going on behind the scenes that we aren't aware of that's making him churn out this garbage. Maybe he's having a really, really bad creative day and everyone's too afraid to tell him to come back tomorrow after a good night's rest and start over? 
Well said, Mockingbird_V.
I liked the first series. It felt like CoH.
This new series I can't stand. I doubt I will read the third issue. I had to force myself to finish the first one hoping it would get better - it didn't.
I agree totally with the OP. This is not a CoH comic book. It is not about superheroes, it is barely set in Paragon City, none of the characters are remotely likeable.
This is like somebody wanted to do an edgy, tedious comicbook and accidentally put the CoH name on it.
For those of you who are offended by the fact that every hero so far has been white, do not fear! All of them are stupid, self-centered whiners anyhow (it's almost embarrassing from a racial point of view).
Many people do not see why those of us who are not white are offended or dissapointed by the lack of diverse heroes. Use one of the oldest methods in the book: putting yourself in their shoes. Face it, if you were in a minority, you would very possibly be an entirely different person than you are now. I must say, I may be dissapointed if there were no white heroes in a comic I was reading. Will some people think that means I'm racist? They certainly will, but I can assure you that I am not. Most people want to be able to relate with the people they are reading about, and skin color is one of the most basic ways of relating with someone there is.
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Diversity-Nazi is such an oxymoron that I weep for the education of people. Seriously, read a book about the 'diversity' of the Nazis
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Weep, instead, for the overly-literal and unimaginative nature of "people". The point of the term "diversity-nazi" is to turn the accusatory mechanism which labels people as "intolerant" and "nazi-like" on the overly-sensitive, politically-correct, self-appointed "tolerance police", who seem to feel it is their mission in life to inject their perceptions of inherent, systemic racism/sexism/homophobia into every discussion, no matter how unnecessary or over-blown such an injection might be.
Furthermore, the crime of the Nazi regime wasn't that they believed that "Aryans" were superior to all others, unless you also believe in "thought police". Their crime was in the persecution of those who believed otherwise, and who weren't in conformity to that "ideal". Those who accuse people of racism, sexism, or homophobia because they don't actively pursue the agenda of "diversification" at every turn are, ironically, as intolerant and dictatorial as the very redneck neo-Nazi's they see under every Bush (pun intended). Hence, they become Stalinish/Maoist-type "purgers of dissent" instead of Nazi-like "purifiers of race", and so the term "Diversity Nazis" becomes appropeau , if not precisely accurate.
And the fact that I, the user of the term, have to explain this to you, makes me weep for "people's" education.
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Second, when somebody of an ethnic group feels left out, no amount of shouting them down is going to make them feel included.
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I'm not trying to "make them feel included". I'm trying to get across my frustration with the attitude that, if someone doesn't consciously balance every area of whatever activity they are undertaking so that it reflects the supposed ratio of every minority group in the country "accurately", whatever that means, someone is being persecuted or excluded. The fact that the first comic had an black character in Horus, or that Back Alley Brawler (a black man), Coyote (a native American) and Miss Liberty (a woman) are the first three heroes you meet in COH, is not enough for the poster, no, the NEW comic SHOWS that he is ignored and excluded, because IT doesn't prominently display HIS race. THAT pisses me off, and should piss off anyone who is more interested in moving PAST race than focusing ON it. At least, I think it should.
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We're not talking about Casablanca, or music groups, we're talking about the City of Heroes comic book so changing the subject shows you are either a bad debater or you know you can't defend the original accusation.
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Casablanca is a movie. Movies are forms of entertainment. Musical groups make music. Music is a form of entertainment. CoH is a game. Games are a form of entertainment. The CoH comic is literary fiction. Literary Fiction is a form of entertainment. See the parallel? Or do I need to go on so that you will see why this isn't "changing the subject"? And I don't need to defend the original accusation, because the original accusation was made on the part of the "diversity Nazis", who apparently want to use the comic for kindling because there aren't enough black people in it.
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Now, let's start a rant about how a feminist like me feels about Statesman absorbing the spirit of Zeus, a God most known for fathering children on willing and unwilling women.
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I thought he was "most known" for being the King of the Gods, living on Mt. Olympus, and hurling lightning bolts. His exploits with the ladies were strictly plot points in morality plays by Greek philosophers, which philandering, you will note, inevitably ended in tragedy. Of Greek proportions.
In other words, women were Zeus' kryptonite, and he was powerless before them. And if the most powerful of males could be brought down again and again by females, the rest of us men should be very, very careful of how we deal with them.
Probably why homosexuality was so prevalent in that society. Because the men figured that was better than dealing with women. If they had had to deal with "avowed feminists" as well, I don't doubt but that Greece would have disappeared from population implosion long before we ever heard of them.
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heroes in comics dont exist to show us who we are. they exist to show us who we could be. who we -should- be. that its possible for the future to be better than the present.
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Excellent point. In that arena, I do agree, the new comic seems to fall woefully short. That's what I always loved most about Capt. America. I did really like the new comic from a story standpoint, and I found the characters far more engaging than the first series, but so far there's not much actual "heroism" being displayed.
But, maybe that will change. It is, after all, only issue #2. Perhaps they're setting a "low point" from which the heroes can re-ascend, with newfound humility and wisdom, to become more the heroic icons Paragon City needs. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Greetings all,
I just wanted to take a minute to let you all know that your voices are being heard.
We wanted to start the re-launch of the comic with a bang. Mark, Jack and I came up with the no mediport plotline together. We didn't force it on him and he didn't force it on us. Rest assured that the heroes will come through this test unified and changed. Issue #3 will end this arc. In Issue #4 Troy Hickman (of Common Grounds fame) will be telling a more classic super-team story. Starting in Issue #7 Dan Jurgens will write a story-arc that features the Back Alley Brawler as the main character. It will also introduce an upcoming gameplay feature.
We plan on showing a lot of different sides of Paragon City and the characters in it. Some of it will be dark, some of it less so, just like the stories we tell in the game.
As always, thanks for your interest and passion.
~M
PS More about Statesman's origin will be found...you know the rest! 
I didn't particularly like Top Cow #1 because of the way it jerked the setting around. Everyone goes placidly about their lives and are even happy that the heroes are gone? Doesn't sound like the Paragon City I know and love...
I was prepared to dislike Issue #2 but in the end I grudgingly admitted to myself that is pretty good. Once I accepted the back-story, the story of Issue #2 fell right into place for me. Mark Waid's take on the Freedom Phalanx may not mirror the Freedom Phalanx in my imagination, but accepted on their own terms they make for an interesting read.
I can easily picture Statesman being the "carry the whole load on my shoulders" type. He's arguably the most powerful hero in Paragon City. He's got more experience than anyone after some 70 years. Everyone admires him, even his enemies. He'd take his leadership role so much for granted that it would never occur to him that some people might see him as arrogant and bossy.
Likewise, while Manticore is a bit grim for my tastes, I think his sub-text is interesting as the guy with natural leadership qualities that are overshadowed by everyone's hero-worship of Statesman. There are likely a lot of natural origin heroes who are coming to the realization that they have a chance to be "first stringers" as the Warriors guy puts it. Manticore has to face that tempation several times overtly and has assuredly considered this very thing over the six weeks preceding his re-assemblage of the Phalanx. His decision to fight the good fight for his fellow heroes does him credit no matter that his personality may not make him the most likable guy on the team.
As for the last page,I suspect that Manticore knows his mythology and is gambling that "Torchy" subjected "Zeus" to the "whole nine yards" rather than just a symbolic punishment. We'll see what happens when dawn shines down on that rock Statesman is bound to. If not, well, Statesman would certainly sacrifice his own life if it meant that impending world-wide doom could be prevented. (Never mind that it may have given Manticore a certain amount of satisfaction to put an arrow in a spot he's thought about more than once when he was feeling annoyed with his Fearless Leader. *heh*)