ScionofSatan

Yan, first off, thnx very much for the critique. Very thorough, I'll make sure to go through with a fine-toothed comb and get all the proofing stuff. I really appreciate it.

A few things I thought I should mention:

[ QUOTE ]
The Trash Collector spawned in a spot I had already passed through, and through pure chance I needed to go through again. Seems his spawn is linked to the Janitors?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it is. On purpose. The janitor even tells you that the ally willl "meet you by the front door." There is a reason for this, and it's unavoidable. Mostly because, whether I put "front", "middle" or "back", all the hostages seem to spawn wherever they damn well please. But the ally almost always spawns on the first floor. And, like I said...he has to be connected to the janitor.

[ QUOTE ]
Still failed the mission, as The Hive Master never stopped to fight. Did even worse then with my Scrapper.


[/ QUOTE ]

The mission is designed to be easy to fail. As you saw, you face the Hive master two more times, and the third time's a doozy. If you succeed in beating him it still works, but failing is just fine, you miss nothing of the story, nor much of the mission.

[ QUOTE ]
Mission Two Text: There's nothing really indicating it's a timed mission until you accept and are half way through reading the Mission Accepted Text.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well...yeah. But even if you're a slow reader, you only lose, what, 30 seconds? It's meant to add urgency to a glowie-click mission, and to discourage treating it as a defeat-all.

[ QUOTE ]
Mission Two Play: Right. If your goal was to cram as many "click these!" goals into an Orange Bagel map, you succeeded. :P In the Nav Text for the Weapon Racks left to find, there's a period at the end that's unneeded.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, no. I could have put a LOT more clickies in there. But honestly, the CoT are packing up everything and moving out. One box wouldn't exactly make sense, now would it? And you don't really know what you're looking for, so you need to really search. Just because 10k arcs are badge-farming arcs with 100 glowies in them doesn't mean every other arc should have them only sparsely.

[ QUOTE ]
There's a space between your "$name" and the comma after it in the mission text.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was having problems with the text reading "$name" if I didn't put a space between it and any punctuation following it. I'll test it further, but for now, at least it works.

[ QUOTE ]
Khelds get benefits for teaming with other Khelds, as opposed to what your patrols mentioned!

[/ QUOTE ]

My face is red. I didn't know that.

[ QUOTE ]
Plus, at level 40-44, the NPCs are mostly Psi-Officers and Police Drones, not the Kheldians (who would show up at level 45+, I believe).


[/ QUOTE ]

That I DID know. I tried to make the text generic, so that, if it weren't khelds, it would just sound like they were talking ABOUT khelds. Except for the mish entry popup. I'll change that. But the only way I could have assured Khelds would have been to put a Kheld boss in, and I didn't want to do that.

[ QUOTE ]
Mission Three Play: I'm sure you don't like me saying this but... 23 glowie collections? Really? I hate doing it in game when they give me inf. It's almost feeling like a badge farm disguised by a hatred for Asuria.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I hear you. I feel the same about defeat-alls. But in this case...there are 19 zones in Paragon, and then the cardinal map points make four more, on the outskirts of the city proper. That makes 23. You didn't know where she went, and didn't have time to analyze each zone map to see which one to get next, nor did you know which computers held which maps for which zones. So, yeah. 23. It was story-driven, and it's NOT a badge farm. I hate those things.

[ QUOTE ]
My mom is male now!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Huge body type is male by default. I don't like it, but there it is. And honestly...would it make more sense if a bee had breasts?!?

[ QUOTE ]
Plus she kept going into this "floating yoga" stance every time I went back after she lost me (because she kept doing this "floating yoga" stance) which made me stop and wait for her. And when (s)he "turned on me" I could target him(her?) as an enemy through tab, but could not attack, and my Trip Mines nor Caltrops registered her as an enemy. Plus, she wouldn't stop following me now. On the bright side, her defeat wasn't mandatory to the mission.

[/ QUOTE ]

She gives text to indicate she doesn't want to leave, but doesn't attack you (she's still your mom, mentally. mostly.) And why would you hurt your mother if you didn't have to? Further, having her follow you keeps you from wondering why your captive is wandering all over the map, and it would be hard to say "she doesn't want to leave" if she then ran to the nearest exit and left. As to the difficulty with the escorting...well, yeah. All escorts suck. Part of the story. Sorry.

[ QUOTE ]
I would have gone with one of the big caves, the kind the Trolls or Tuatha de Dannon use.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was trying to avoid a HUGE map, or anything with tech in it, or with Rikti tech (wanted to use an office/cave transition, but they all said "Rikti Cave"...that would have made no sense at all).

I'm sorry you were unable to defeat him. I had to make him more difficult than just a "boss" in the final map, but I didn't want to auto-exemp 50's to a lower level for the final fight, and that meant I either had to create a custom EB (less than 8% room left, not sure that's an option, but I'll give it a try) or use the Akarist AV and rename him and change the description. Didn't think he'd be that tough as an EB, but my tank is maybe a poor way to test that.

I think people with fully-slotted 50's will have less trouble, but I'll run it with some of my other toons and see if that's true. In any event, again, I really, REALLY appreciate the feedback.

And to anyone getting a headache from all this...I'm sorry for posting such a lengthy response in the thread, I know it's not for that purpose. But I felt like Yan's brutally honest public critique needed just a LITTLE bit of defensive rebuttal, so everyone wouldn't think my arc was completely thoughtless and poorly thrown together. Of course, now I've given them a bunch of spoilers.

Can't win for losing.

I'll be glad to review and critique your arc, just as soon as someone plays mine and does likewise. I've had time to play through and post reviews on two arcs in this thread since mine went up days ago, so I think I'll wait to do another till mine gets a little play.

123815. Feel free to give it a run, Molten Crusader. Or anyone else

[ QUOTE ]
Check my arc out and tell me what you think. (MA: 101857)


[/ QUOTE ]

Heya Joe,

Please don't take this the wrong way. I started your arc, but didn't finish it. The reason: it isn't finished. I say that not because the missions are unbalanced or the story is horrible, it's not. However, you DESPERATELY need to proof and rewrite the text, particularly the contact stuff. In the first mission alone, I counted over 14 typos and grammatical errors, from run on sentences to missing punctuation to misspellings. And that was just in the mission intro and mission accept dialogues. By the time I finished my notes, there were only 18 minutes left on the mission clock!

Get a friend or an sg-mate to run it and proof it for you. It's very difficult to proof your own stuff. Your mind sees what you meant to write instead of what you actually DID write.

I'll gladly run it again after it's done, but I don't want to tank your star rating unfairly. Lest you think I'm being A-R about this, consider: This is an exercise in creative writing. If I'm being distracted by that kind of thing, how am I going to appreciate the story you're trying to tell?

[ QUOTE ]
Arc ID: 82136
Name: Family Matters
Creator: @Shadow Guard
Description:: A new gang of Outcasts is making bold moves into Independence Port. What is the secret behind their newfound power and their role in the turf wars that plague the docks of Paragon City? (psst... AV fight)

Length: Long (5 missions w/ 1 short 3 med and 1 long but straightforward office map)
Difficulty: I envisioned it as a 20-30 arc (though technically it caps at 40 and mission 2 lets you go at 50). I made new amped up Outcasts with stacking buff/debuff and some control. Mission 5 ends an AV (an AV that I can't believe the devs did not already make!). So tougher than average, but I soloed it with a lvl 28 scrapper and ran through with minimal death on a team of 4.




[/ QUOTE ]

Just ran this arc solo on an inv/ss tank (tricked out) on unyielding.

Absolutely fantastic. The story is gritty and believable (if such can be said of CoX), the character development is great, the dialogue from the cop-contact is very practical, examining the political and "little evil for big evil" trade-offs that go on every day.

The mobs were interesting, fills a hole in CoX lore (what happens to the Outcasts after lvl 15?), and make sense. They are difficult, but not overwhelming (although the constant slow move/slow regen did get painful by the last mish).

The story of the Family involved (no spoiler) was poignant and made for emotional involvement. Good placement of allies, although I have to say that that girl, somthing-or-other knight, was pretty worthless. If she attacked one time to my ten, I'll eat my hat.

And, other than one very small grammatical error, the text was flawless. That's a big deal to me, as if I have to figure out what you MEANT to write, it breaks the immersiveness, which is why I play.

Five stars, dev's choice material, in my book. And I don't give out five stars lightly.

I'll get to 101857 later tonight.

Kudos to you!

Ok, I've posted in the thread once before, but I just finished my second arc, and I'd love to get some feedback from you guys on it.

Arc # 123815
Title: Queen for a Day
Genre: Adventure/humor
Difficulty: low-medium
Length: very long

Also, based on feedback from this thread and elsewhere, I've made some pretty major changes to my first arc, #20957 "Scaling the war walls". I'd love it if some of you serious critics would give it another look, help me to do a final proof and find any storyline inconsistencies along the way.

In return, I'm going to go back and find the last post previous to this one that does not seem to have been reviewed and give it a go, and I'll review the next person to post an arc, as well.

Ok, gonna run 82136 and 101857...I'll get critiques up asap.

Thanks much.

My second arc is up as well:

arc #123815
Title: "Queen for a day"
Alignment: heroic
Genre: Humor/Adventure
Difficulty: Low-medium

Just posted it today, so any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arc #20957
Name: Scaling the War Wall
Genre: World Crisis
Ethos: Heroic
Difficulty: Medium-High
Length: 5 missions, no defeat alls. 1 hour on a "speed run", 3 hours in "completist" mode.
Author: @Corporal Punishment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I played on a level 50 DB/WP Brute on Ruthless.

Mission 1
I don't feel very strongly motivated to listen to the Pilot at all, but I am perfectly willing to overlook that--the premise set at the end of the first mission is perfectly wonderful.

Good variety of characters kept things interesting.

Mission 2
First of all, loved the choice of map. Just one thing - you should take a look at the singular nav display for the bosses. Also, I think it would've helped if the contact explained what you were doing before the mission - I didn't really know what I was doing other than clicking the glowies and what not until **SPOILERS** the bookcase rose out of the floor. While I'm in a spoilers section, I have to ask why the Arcane Armors all ask me why I'm running away after I defeat them. **/SPOILERS**

So far, I'm really enjoying the variety of mission goals that are presented in the missions

Mission 3
LOVE the setting.

**SPOILERS** The final fight was really awesome! I found the wave of Malta a tad on the mean side because of the sapper. I lucked out and saw him coming, but I would imagine most people wouldn't. The subsequent waves of electric-heavy mobs don't help the situation. Still, fun emergency situation to react to. Kudos! I really enjoyed that part. **/SPOILERS**

Mission 4
The story is developing quite nicely. **SPOILERS** I thought the end-drain on the last level was an edgy move, but very well-applied...but I didn't expect to see it again for the ENTIRE level on the very next level. The final fight against the EB was not very fun, to say the least. **/SPOILERS**

Mission 5
**SPOILERS** More electric guys... **/SPOILERS**The singular nav text in mission 5 also needs to be looked at again. Also, after I got the objective for defeating the honoree, I had no idea who that was or where he might be.

Overall
The first 3 missions were absolutely beautiful. Unfortunately, the 4th mission felt like you just called it in. By the fifth mission, seeing the same (annoying as hell) enemy over and over is getting pretty aggravating. I know that (a) I was on rugged whereas you suggested heroic and (b) I was solo as opposed to on a large team as per your recommendation...but still. I think there could've been more interesting ways to challenge the player other than just using end-drain excessively.

The story, on the other hand, was amazing. I really enjoyed it.

tl;dr - 4 stars, great story, but annoying recurring mobs


Anywaysss...here's mine:
The Great Diamond Heist (ArcID: 96169)

[/ QUOTE ]

I just have to say...thanks very much for the detailed and obviously carefully considered critique. I'll think about the custom mobs...you're not the first to complain about them.

While you didn't ask for any explanation, I feel I should explain about the fourth mission: The third and fifth missions are heavy on goals and subgoals, and you don't really see much of the custom mobs until mission four. So I thought I'd create a mission that introduced the custom mobs en masse without too much in the way of goals, so as to give the player a breather, a chance for a short mission, and an opportunity to fight as many, or as few, of the custom mobs as they wished.

In the last mission, fighting the custom mobs is unavoidable because of the mission goals, I'm just not sure I can change them because they are sort of...thematic.


Again, I really appreciate the feedback, and I will give it some more thought. And I'll give your arc a try.

**Spoiler**
Oh yeah...and the text from the bosses after they're defeated in the last mission is a quote from Monty Python's quest from the Holy Grail. In fact, ALL the boss dialogue in that fight is pulled directly from the Black Knight fight scene in that movie. After King Arthur has cut off the arms and legs from the black knight, and his body and head are all that are left, and King Arthur is riding away, the Black Knight calls out "oh, runnin' away, eh? Come back here, and I'll bite your kneecaps off"...so it's a contextually accurate bit of humor. And I believe either the clue or the info about the boss describes the enchanter as having a "penchant for classic comedy troupes" or something to that effect. Sorry it was too esoteric

Arc #20957
Scaling the War Wall
@Corporal Punishment
Diff: medium-high
length: 1-3 hours, depending on diff level, # on team and completist vs. speed mode. There are no defeat-alls.

All feedback welcome.

I also ran big trouble in lil' ol china. Must've been doing it at the same time as the previous poster. I enjoyed the feel of "couple of guys watching on the couch, not sure what's going on" that the story (such as it was ) and the names of the bad guys ("dude with an ax", "karate guy") gave it, and the final mission exit dialogue box confirmed my feeling of those same guys saying "I have no idea what the hell is going on here". Which is how I felt about half the kung fu movies I've watched. I gave you four stars, could use a little clean-up on typos.

For clarity, I used a tank on it, on unyielding, and though the fights were tough, especially the bosses, they were doable, so I'd say the balance is good. The regen scrapper boss did require me to use an HVAC in the first mish, though, to overcome his regen .

Ok, now for mine:

Arc #20957
Name: Scaling the War Wall
Genre: World Crisis
Ethos: Heroic
Difficulty: Medium-High
Length: 5 missions, no defeat alls. 1 hour on a "speed run", 3 hours in "completist" mode.
Author: @Corporal Punishment

I look forward to your feedback!

AE System
--------
Welcome to Architect Entertainment -- Neutral
Death for Dollars! -- Neutral
Bare Knuckles of Rage (9304)
Signal to Noise -- Neutral -- 67277
*

Allegory
---------
Who is Kidnapping the World's Great Philosophers? -- Neutral -- 86347
*

Character/Supergroup Origins
--------
Birth of a Fossil -- Heroic
Secret Origins(Tech) The Snake Women of Epsilon V (42221) - Heroic
Noah Reborn -- Heroic (2370)
Polar Emergence Neutral Government User Interface Network (PENGUIN) #29205 - Heroic
Jumping in Feet First - Heroic - 1345
Midnight Bells Toll ----Villanious
A hero is made, not born. -- Heroic 20863
*

Classic Super-Hero/Super-Villain
--------
THE BOMBER --- Heroic --- Arc 16607
In The Shadow of Statesman --Neutral--1160
A Show to Die For! --- Heroic --- 30645
Check... and Mate #15095 - Heroic - Mini Task Force
Teen Phalanx Forever! -- Heroic (67335)
This Life Immortal - (5756) Heroic
Paradox Paradox - (69221) Heroic Stop yourself and Stellar from being erased!
Sidekicks Can Be A Pain In The Cape - (28430)
'Tis Nobler in the Mind - Heroic
*

Comedy
--------
The Extadine Lab -- Heroic (2595)
MacGuffin Delivery Service (1567) -- Villainous
ParaCon -- Heroic (1684)
The new and improved Lord Recluse Strike Force -- Villainous (though I wouldn't recommend against a hero )
The Fire Bunnies - Neutral, They are only bunnies after all...
You Say It's Your Birthday! (3630) - Neutral
Trademark Infringement -- Heroic (2220)
Hail to the King Neutral (34640)
Walk On the Wild Side - Neutral - 3580
Shirley You Jest (25474) -- Neutral
The Invasion of the Bikini Clad Samurai Vampiresses from Outer Space! - Heroic - 61013
Gnomish Madness (30204) - Heroic
Doctor Nadir and the Hellion Heist (49661) - Heroic
Laugh? I Thought I'd DIE! - Heroic
The P.U.G. Strike force (arc 35585) -Villian
A Translator is the Wind or the Thunder in Turns -- (2936) - Heroic
What's in a Name? - Villainous
None More Black, Dude! (#86312) Neutral
Rise of the Drakule - Neutral
Return of the Revenge of the Son of Drakule Part 2: First Blood - Neutral
*

Comedy/Drama
--------
Fashion Apocalypse - Neutral - 14840
The Running of the Bulls -- Heroic 29973
A Super Team is Born -- Heroic
Cause of How Some Silly Stealed My Wings #1481 -- Neutral
How to Survive a Robot Uprising -- Heroic (12669)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare -- Neutral
It's a Nice Day for a White Wedding (9059) -- Neutral
TURG FICTION: Ghost in the Machine, Act I - Heroic (althoughs romantic villains could try this too )
Rum Runners of Bloody Bay (3691) - Heroic
Have a Blap, Blap, Blappy Day Kids! (2019)
The Toypocalypse! (49280) - Heroic
Fishing for Fame with Red Herring - Heroic (66861)
Putting Out Fires: A Corporate Satire (20100) - Villainous
The Rise and Refall of Pets'n'Things.com - Heroic - 1061
The Cat's in the Cradle (8776) - Villainous
*

Crime/Gangs
--------
Bricked Electronics -- Heroic (LIVE! 2180)
The Bravuran Jobs -- Villainous (16809)
The Black Flag Is On The Rise (Pirates!) - Villainous
The Monstrous Regiment of Lesbian Hellions -- Heroic (27178)
Win the 2009 Freak-Lympics (2150) - Villainous
Ninja Crimewave! (2142) - Heroic
Whitehawks (Arc 49364) -- Heroic
The Internet is for Crime (53385) - Villains
Plastic Pistol Peril (1135) - Heroic
Friends in Need (Of Body Parts) - Villainous (31005)
A Little RnR - Heroic (17523) click for Promotional Poster
*

Drama
--------
The Conciliators: Simone -- Heroic (4010)
The Fan Club -- Heroic
Matchstick Women -- Heroic -- 3369
Of Mentors and Legacy - Heroic - 1589
Digital Love -- Neutral -- 3571
*

Global Domination
--------
Axis and Allies -- Villainous (1379)
*

Heist
--------
Celebrity Kidnapping -- Villainous (1388)
Easy Money -- Villainous (31490)
The Great Diamond Heist -- Villainous (96169)
*

Historical (Realistic)
--------
Wrinkle in Time -- Heroic(68920)
*

Historical (CoH Lore)
--------
The War on Superadine - The Regulators in their 1980's drug war (Heroic) (Arc 7959)
Origins - Volume 1 (57077) -- Heroic
The Once and Future King (#71601) - Heroic
*

Holiday
--------
City of Ho Ho Ho #18775 - Heroic
Hectic Holidays -- Heroic (36999) also comedy
Santa's Missing List - 34961
*

Horror
--------
Astoria in D Minor (41565) -- Heroic
Dark Dreams (3615)
D!E BLACKULA D!E! (10619) -- Heroic
Don't Play With The Dead (31813) -- Neutral
The Amulet of J'gara (1709) -- Heroic
Project: Perilous - Into the Chthonian Pit (#3586) - Neutral (Unless you happen to be a mad cultist, in which case, go nuts!)
Small Fears -- Heroic
Lights, Camera, Scream! (#68627) - 3 Mission arc that get's you into the B-Horror film circuit.
Duality --Heroic -- 84105
Hunting the Hunters --Villainous -- 93362 - Help a vampire find out who is hunting his people
*

Large-Scale Crisis
--------
Is it Live or is it Memory-X - Arc ID #70210 - Heroic
This Is War, Part I - the Revenge of Hro'Dtohz -- Neutral
Win the Past, Own the Future - Heroic
A Warrior's Friend - Heroic
The Clockwork War -- Heroic (18672)
Flight of the Valkyries - Precursor (20272) -- Neutral
The Human Hive (#1632) - Neutral
War of the Worlds - The Anakim Invasion - Part 1, Neutral (15006)
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...e#Post13304513
War of the Worlds - The Anakim Invasion - Part 2, The Terran Revolt, Neutral (46711)
url=http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=13304455&an=0&am p;page=0#Post13304455
Bleed the Freak - Arc ID #6919 - Heroic
Scaling the War Wall - Arc ID #20957 - Heroic
*

Magic
--------
The Magical Miss Fitz (5079) -- Heroic
Chains of Blood (5492) -- Heroic
A Deal with Destiny -- Heroic
The Broken Chain (82378) -- heroic
Croatoa's Great War: The Parfait Family Reunion -- Neutral -- 71880
Rex is Missing! - Heroic - 51702
The Tannhäuser Gate (Arc 96322)
*

Military
--------
Redoubt Operations #1: Fires over Kalago -- Heroic
Red Storm Rising (Arc 4912) -- Heroic
Whitehawks (Arc 49364) -- Heroic
Axis and Allies -- Villainous (1379)
Vanguard AQUA (58475) -- Neutral
*

Misc. Adventure
--------
The Portal Bandits (3326) -- Heroic
A Glitch in the Wyre- Arc 73197-- Neutral (Fun for both the good kids and the bad kids too!)

Mystery
--------
Blowback (18575) -- Heroic
Dream Paper -- Heroic (13030)
Dream Paper 2: Restless Sleep -- Heroic (16797)
Dream Paper 3: Broken Dreams -- Heroic (13064)
*

Mythology
--------
Atlantis Attacks! -- Neutral (30898) -- Click for Promotional Poster
The Seelie War -- Heroic
The Unseelie War -- Villainous
Tales of Cimerora, volume 1 : Of feathers and fur -- Heroic
The Aegis Affair - Heroic - ****
Witches and Warriors (53006)- Heroic
The War of Fate(12220,46722)- Heroic
Rites of the Maenads (61159) - Heroic
The Parable of the Fruit Salad -- Heroic -- 65369
The Eye of Balor (88176) - Heroic
*

Nemesis Plots
--------
Brass Reaver: Part 1 -- Neutral
The Handbag Plot -- Heroicish -- 36414
*

Player-Chosen Outcome
--------
Hunting the Dark Dragon -- Heroic
Playing Gods -- Heroic (51106)
*

Sci-Fi
--------
Above Mars - Part 1: The Wellington -- Neutral (13215)
Adventures of the Space Marines -- Neutral
Adventures of the Space Marines 2 -- Neutral
The Adventures of the United Earth Rangers -- Neutral (29549)
The Continuing Adventures of the United Earth Rangers -- Neutral (70237)
The Final Nemesis
The Knights of Rularuu -- Heroic (75386)
Reach for the Stars -- Neutral (78904)
Spaced Invaders --Heroic(56856)
That Mysterious Buzzing Sound - 12774
The Balance of Power - 26931 - Neutral
*

Un-themed Survival/AV/Time Challenges
--------
The Meatgrinder -- Neutral
*

Puzzles/Riddles
--------
Grim Riddles (#1396) - Heroic

[ QUOTE ]
Yep. And why didn't people believe the Devs when they said that ED would diversify things?

[/ QUOTE ]

C'mon, LadyThor. Talk about putting a spin on the facts. ED didn't diversify anything. Now, over a year later, we're finally getting a new, universally available "Hamidon-like" SO that will RE-diversify slotting. To say that ED was necessary to diversify slotting is like saying "We had to destroy the village to save it." It's just....well, c'mon now.



Oh, and by the way...fantastic work, Scrapulous. Logical, detailed and pithy. Very informative, I'm definitely putting a link to this in my siggy sometime soon.

[ QUOTE ]
1. Removing the Issue 5 changes is WAY simpler than rewriting your Defense code.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is an interesting point. It goes deeper than it seems at first glance. My initial reaction was, "Well, we don't KNOW that. It COULD be far simpler than trying to pick and choose what to remove, or alter."

Then I thought about a little more. For about 3 seconds. And it occurred to me: You don't solve a complex problem by adding more variables.

The proper way to solve a complex problem is through simplification. You SIMPLIFY the problem you're trying to solve. And completely rewriting the defense code, while leaving in the double complexity that was the I5/ED disaster for defense, is just BEGGING to miss something. Either someone will be left out, and will still be "gimp", or someone will be "accidentally" buffed too much, and will become the new FOTM uber "I am teh PWNZ0r" build.

Either way, it's probably a bad idea. Why not try ED WITHOUT the I5 defense/damres nerf, and see how it works.

And roll back the "no multiple pets" change for controllers, while you're at it.

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No one. That doesn't mean tanks are, either. A tank should be able to tank for an 8-man team, taking the aggro, and the damage, from a full spawn while his teammates do whatever it is that squishies do during that time.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is the crux of the matter right here.

There are only 5 different ATs, meaning that least three-slots of an 8-person team will have redundant ATs. Yet despite this, some people believe that a Tanker should be in the unique position where a *single* one can do their job (holding aggro and not dying) for a full team of 8, on Invincible, with *no help* from the other 7 members of the team.

That seems irrational.

One controller cannot lock down a full team spawn on Invincible.
One defender cannot heal 7 people fast enough to recover all of the damage caused by a full team spawn on Invincible.
One scrapper or blaster couldn't take down a full team spawn on Invincible with no heals or other support.

Why should One single tank be able to hold aggro with no buffing for a full team spawn on Invincible?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because, even with a great tank, the spawns are likely going to go after the squishies somewhat, when they start doing damage. That means their attacks on the tank are on again/off again, as he regains aggro stolen by a pair of blasters, or what have you. He doesn't have to TAKE all the damage or attacks from a full spawn, but he SHOULD be able to "tank" the spawn alone. This allows the "extra" slots to be filled by more damage dealers and lockdown/debuff types. With two tanks, the damage drops significantly, or the control, but the aggro doesn't correspondingly become better managed, due to random aggro grabbing between two tanks operating in close proximity, whether by taunt, punvoke, or aura.

A controller can see if mobs are confused or what-have-you. A defender can see the debuffs running in an area, whose buffs are fading, etc. A tanker CANNOT necessarily "see" that, out of 10 mobs, 3 of the 5 he's about to try to taunt are already focused on another tanker.

Hence, it is better for the entire TEAM if there is only ONE tanker, so long as that tanker can stand the punishment long enough for the alpha strikes and follow-ups to fade, while the other AT's do their jobs.

But obviously, just because it's better for the whole team, and hence for all players, doesn't mean it's better for everyo...oh, wait, yes it does....

P.S. There are 7 AT's in COH. Warshades and Peacebringers need love too. That leaves room for ONE redundant spot. I don't think I'm speaking out of turn when I say that MOST people would like to see that spot filled by a second defender.

But I could be wrong.

[ QUOTE ]
He, he... Not really to contribute anything but I quit CoH in like Issue 3 and just came back a week ago, so I have certain memories of the former state of affairs. Tanks (invulns in particular) were broken and everyone knew it. It was _bad_.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will not find me saying that NO adjusting needed to be done. My response is an appeal to the opposite extreme of "all tanks routinely solo'ed AV's", which is patently untrue.

Even AV's who COULDN'T hurt me, like when I tanked Infernal at +2 so my blaster friend could take him out "solo" - (he didn't take any damage, and I didn't do any, that kind of thing), couldn't be defeated by my tank solo, because I COULDN'T overcome their regeneration rate.

And my controller? Please. Couldn't maintain a reliable hold, there WAS no "containment", and whenever Phantom Army went down, AV's would take out my Phantasm and chase me around, regenning the damage I'd been doing like crazy.

So, yeah, if you're remembering I3, there were some things that needed fixing. But what was done to tanks with the combination of I5 and ED, including aggro nerf, damage nerf, defense nerf and damres nerf, has swung the pendulum MUCH too far the other way.

[ QUOTE ]
Fact: Tanks died in I4. Even inv/ tanks. And Fire tanks.

Not fact- your opinion. My tank is doing okay. Definetly NOT dead



[/ QUOTE ]

Learn to read, THEN try writing. I said "tanks died in I4 " This refers to the fact that, at no level at the HEIGHT of their power, were tanks "unbeatable". I remember being chased around the arena by a rad/rad defender when I was in my PRIME. Get it now? NOT "ALL TANKS ARE DEAD, NO ONE CAN POSSIBLY PLAY THEM"...tanks. could. die. in. I4.

Sheesh.

[ QUOTE ]
Fact: Tanks are no longer capable of tank mode.

Not fact- your opinion. Who is capable of tank mode without buffs and stuff, other than a tank?


[/ QUOTE ]

No one. That doesn't mean tanks are, either. A tank should be able to tank for an 8-man team, taking the aggro, and the damage, from a full spawn while his teammates do whatever it is that squishies do during that time. If a second group gets aggroed, a tank should be able to tank for them, as well, with danger.

Right now, the ONLY way a tank is going to be able to do an 8-man (at least for inv/, ice/ and the like...not necessarily stone/) on Invincible is if there is a defender to buff him. To even TRY to get all the aggro is difficult with the aggro caps, and to succeed is suicide. This isn't to say someone is better. Just that the best aren't good enough.

Why are you having such trouble reading and understanding what I'm writing?

[ QUOTE ]
Fact: Tanks + defenders are good combination.

Not fact- your opinion. But I sure wouldn't say "no" to either of them or both of them.


[/ QUOTE ]

??? It IS a fact. Defenders, whether they buff the tank, shield the tank, heal the tank, or debuff the incoming damage, make a GREAT support unit for a tank, or a brute. Have you ever been in a team with two tanks and two defenders? The defenders parse up the tanks between them like sailors picking girls at a bar on a one-night liberty.

Tanks and defenders make a good combination. This IS a fact. And it's a little different than in I4, where a defender was usually MOOT for a well-built tank. It's one of the reasons why the nerfs were "needed", and I'm just saying "mission accomplished". This is to show that while SOME rollbacks need to happen, SOME degree of the plan was successful, and ALL probably shouldn't be undone.

Are you drunk, or something?

I'm glad you agree to disagree with me, but not sure what part you're disagreeing with I actually said, and what part is your own fevered imagination.

Tanks overnerfed.

Buff tanks.

The end.

[ QUOTE ]
Sigh. He's not peddling anything, he's just playing a /Regen Tank. It really doesn't matter what his non-stone power set even is: Dull Pain + Health +Aid Self = Most of the capabilities of /Regen.


[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot Hasten. Faster healing for a better you.

yeah, I've had it out with Semper Fi before. He, like Futurias, is a "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts" type.

Fact: Tanks died in I4. Even inv/ tanks. And Fire tanks.

Fact: Tanks had their damage cut prior to I5.

Fact: Tanks had damres and def power slashed hardcore in I5.

Fact: Tanks had damres and def power slashed hardcore AGAIN with ED.

Fact: Tanks are no longer capable of God mode.

Fact: Tanks are no longer capable of tank mode.

Fact: Tanks + defenders are good combination.

Fact: Two defenders is even better.


Conclusion: Tanks need to be balanced back up. The removal of the global def/damres nerfs of I5 is a good start.

Addendum: This is not even in dispute anymore. The only questions are how, and how much, and how soon.

[ QUOTE ]
If my eyes did not deceive me, I didnt see anyone out there with a Fire/Stone brute.

I did it because he is concept toon to be the archvillain to my primary Ice/electric blaster. 2 aliens from another world brought here by the rikti, who distroyed their home planet. You would think they would get along.

No siry bob, they are back at their old way, Night Frost, trying to stop Chared Ash cold in his tracks, while Chared Ash is trying to burn Night Frost into submission.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny. Your post is exactly what I was looking for. Fire/stone seems to be overlooked in its entirety. I, too, took it for concept reasons: Vulcanus, demi-god of volcanos, is my fire/stone brute, and man is he scary.

He is a single-target KILLER, and mobs less than purple have no chance at all (well, except CoT Demons...those -recharge and -acc effects are, well, ugly).

I've not faced an AV with him yet (only lvl 27), but Elite Bosses shake with fear at my approach. The eruption of my fury took down LeoKnight, who was +2 to my level, and left nothing but a smouldering ashheap where that tanker had been. I was highly inspired, but still, that deserves a:

Muahahahahaha.

Fire/Stone for teh WIN!!!!

In all seriousness, though, there is an element of sadness to playing him: I haven't had this much fun since I played an inv/ss tanker in I4. I fully expect the nerfbat to be swinging my way soon, fully enhanced for damage. Oh well.

How about "It was never intended for controllers to have multiple pets"?

[ QUOTE ]
You are calling for them to change back their decision on making travel powers suppresed when fighting something. How does that accomplish anything? If you were to keep your super speed and be able to just run through groups hitting things without any way for them to retaliate, then how does that make the game challenging?

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't. But that doesn't mean it wasn't "more fun", "Challenge = fun" concept be damned. There are some things that just LOOK cool, or FEEL cool. In a WWII air combat game, it's the swoop and roll of a dogfight. In a "Mad max" sort of game, it's the thrill of road combat. Here, it's tp'ing in, queueing up an attack before y ou port, then porting away again (which you can still do), or superspeeding by someone, partially stealthed, and getting an attack on them (to which they respond) while their cohorts are completely oblivious because you were moving so fast. Or air combat in Croatoa with mages vs. your blaster, swooping around very similar to the "dogfight" in the WWII game mentioned.

It's fun. Being slowed down, having powers "mysteriously" nullified is NOT fun. Not that the GAME isn't fun, but that PART of it isn't fun, breaks immersion, etc.

These aren't NEW arguments, nor are they difficult to grasp.

Unless you just don't WANT to grasp them.

Assuming the latter is not the case, your question has been answered: rolling back advanced movement power suppression would make the game more dynamic, and more fun, even if it WOULD make it a little less "challenging", which I'm not certain is true. I know when I try to superspeed anywhere, I run into as many walls as I avoid.

But I'm pulling for ya, Dasher.

[ QUOTE ]
Man, if only Conclusion Jumping were an olympic sport, you'd be a gold-medaller.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's "gold-medalist", thank you very much, and that would be the conclusion I'm jumping TO, not OVER. The proper name for the sport would have to be something like "Lame objection-jumping", and the GOAL would be a conclusion.

[ QUOTE ]
What I'm saying is, he's been playing in that particular kiddie pool quite a bit. I myself have a minimum of one tanker on every single server, and NO TWO of them have the same powersets, and every single one of them will, by level 22, be able to solo invincible missions. So, by your own argument, I have far MORE experience than he does with that particular AT (His 5 tanks versus my 11+, my 11+ different powerset combos versus his 2 or 3)


[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, there it is: "I know more than he does, so shut up".

Whatever, Francis. You don't have a point, except, apparently, to denigrate HIS game experience nex to your own, because you're "uber 1337". Except that NOW you're admitting that YOU have a whole bunch of the same AT, and your criticism, it would seem to be, could now be reflected right back at you.

Unless, of course, you have dozens of every kind of AT and powerset. Although then an inability to speak knowledgeably about the endgame would mark you as being incapable of persistence with a character, or of gravitas when speaking of the effect of pan-level global nerfs on the overall game experience, not having had one.

Unless there ARE lots of them between lvl 40 and lvl 50.

In which case, considering the time that SHOULD take in normal gameplay, I guess that would make you a "powerleveller", and pretty much negate any assumptions we could make about your skill level.

Unless you have more time than normal grownups who work and have families, in which case youre either an immature kid who is wasting all of that time he could be spending actually learning something, or an asian gold-farmer. In either of these cases, of course, the ad hominem opening will be too great to pass up, so I don't expect you to admit to either of these, even though they may be true.

See, isn't conclusion jumping fun? er, sorry, "lame objection-jumping"

Kind of like assuming that someone who is experimenting extensively with a given build or powerset MUST have ONLY an ice/ice and fire/fire for his others, as if to imply that he lacks imagination, or is an FOTM player, or some such rot.

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't see the attraction of having 3 tankers whose only difference is what power pools they get and whether or not they got their defensive toggles, with perhaps the sole possibility that they are the SAME character on three different servers.


[/ QUOTE ]

But see, that's my point: you don't NEED to see it. Your commentary on his choice of characters to build is wholly irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is wholly irrelevant to the thread, by-the-by.

Sooo...
good job again on the AV/EB change, devs. Thanks for restoring some faith that you are listening to player concerns.

[ QUOTE ]
Nice attempt at troll bait, tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Already caught me a troll. Just displaying him for the public now.

[ QUOTE ]
You want to talk Overdone? Taking 3 tankers with the same powersets is overdone. There are SO many options to play with, why are you shackelling yourself to the exact same build for 3 out of your 5 tankers?

lemme guess...the other two are Ice/Ice and Fire/Fire?

[/ QUOTE ]

See, why do you even CARE what his motivations are behind what is obviously one his favorite powersets? What possible relevance could that have to the discussion? If anything, it means that he has a LOT of experience in that AT, and even more in that powerset, and might have SOME idea what he's doing. As opposed to YOU, who are just trying to denigrate him ON THE BASIS OF WHAT KIND OF SUPERHERO HE WANTS TO PRETEND TO BE.

Good CHRIST. I haven't seen that since, like, 2nd grade,

"Why would you want to be BATMAN?? He SUCKS!!"

C'mon, you've GOT to be able to do better than that!

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to use quotes here, because it is unnecessary.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. No point in trying to disguise pure hyperbole as real argument by documenting who, and what, you are responding to. Just ties you down, when creative writing is so much enjoyable when freed from the constraints of logical argument and relevant rebuttal.

[ QUOTE ]
Scion...Yes, I referred to it as whining.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
And yes, Scion...this whole thread, you've been very "Drama Queen"-esque... Righteous indignation towards the changes, coupled with base insults of those who disagree with your stance. Not just you, but many of those who are in agreement with you have been attempting such character, intelligence, and personality assassinations. I could quote them, but they are hardly necessary.

I just find that the atmosphere of this thread is wholely hostile and hardly constructive. It's, mostly, a giant and overexaggerated rant about the changes, especially with terms such as "ruined" (it didn't), "nerfed into non-existence (the aren't), and the like.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thee is no "drama queen" involved in any of this. Your incapacity to refute even the smallest of points in this ongoing debate, openlhy displyed by your refusal to practice enough intellectual rigor even to bother to quote what, precisely, you reference, makes the ad hominem tone and explicitly admitted nature of your "argument" all the more pathetic.

I would say more, but to what? There's no "there" in your post. You like the game. You don't like whining. I'm a whiner. You're not.

Rah.

Sorry, just can't get excited by this. It's not even GOOD trolling. Even your comment about "all through the thread" how I've been negative, simply isn't borne out my the very posts you reference, but won't quote. Like the first onein the thread, where I praise the devs and eat crow over them proving wrong something I had said just the week before.

You ahven't READ the thread. You don't HAVE an argument. You won't IDENTIFY your targets of rebuttal.

And you're not particularly amusing.

Who let this loser into my room?

[ QUOTE ]
Remember, Scion: The alternative to supression is bringing back the across-the-board -ACC for all travel powers, the whining about which was what brought about Supression in the first place. (Per your Sig)


[/ QUOTE ]

Simply because one bad idea followed another doesn't mean that we are forever chained to those two bad ideas. There are other alternatives, which have been discussed to no end on these boards.

I suggest one of THOSE is considered. And I suggest that this is not an "A/B" decision.

[ QUOTE ]
As for ED, a number of adjustment suggestions are floating out there, Including my own... so how about coming up with a creative solution to the problem instead of moaning and pining for "the good old days" of 6-mono-slotting?


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't care if we go back to non-ED or go back to non-I5 global nerfs, or just go back halfway on both. My point is that it is TOO MUCH NOW. Honestly, given the choice to stay like this, or go back to I4, bugs and all, I'd take I4. In a snap. So the very activity you are decrying IS, in my opinion, both creative and helpful.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it +
"First, do no harm".

These are good rules to follow in life. Here too. If you kill the patient, it's really not important that you had good intentions. That principle holds at moderate points between "not broken" and "did harm", also.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you REALLY want to find out what a stalker's AS would be like with DOUBLE the damage it does now? (Say hello, one-shot Tanker kills)

[/ QUOTE ] .

I would love to see a fully buffed out Stalker try to one-shot an I4 inv. tank fully slotted with toggles up.

Or against a regen scrapper
y'know, from back in the day
OR against a controller with tactics and 4 3 PA's and two phantoms all six slotted for acc and damage in some combination currently not possible chasing, and mezzing, the stalker all over the map.

Yeah, I think that'd be cool

But that's NOT what I'm asking for. And if you've READ my posts, you know that.

Not even gonna quote you on this one. I've already answered the whole "whining" thing in the very post you quoted. And the question about whether or not it's "worthwhile" to make concerns known in the forum, well, that's been answered too. Your post is just a restatement of all the answered trolling over the last couple of pages. If you want the answers, read the thread.

And if YOU think it's a waste of time, don't do it. But since we DID just get some changes from all our "whining" for over a year, i don't think I agree with your premise, your logic, OR your conclusion.

Now, if you want to go back, read the posts where I've already answered all this stuff, then post rebuttals to those, I'll spend some time going over your post. But as it stands, i'm too busy for it.

Thanks for asking, though.

[ QUOTE ]
Again, after all that's said and done, I find the changes have ultimately brought more diversity to feasibility of builds, and more variety of play. I notice that most of the people who are ranting ad nauseum about the changes are ones who refuse to adapt.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) ED added no new options to the game. This is a fallacy. It FORCES people to slot in an even MORE specific way in order to reach max effectiveness now, but that was by taking AWAY something, not adding anything.

2) As to your repeated characterization of those unhappy with the repeated nerfs which you, having been gone for 14 months, weren't here for as "whiners" and those who "fail to adapt": it's not whining to express displeasure at a change in a product with which you are now less-satisfied, nor to repeatedly defend your assertion that it shouldn't have been changed. See "New Coke" for an example of why. And since I am one of the most vocal proponents of a partial rollback of the combined I5/ED nerfs, let me assure you: I have adapted. I have min-maxed my character through ED-compliant slotting, and I solo on relentless on every character I have over lvl 20 in both CoH (Invincible, of course) and CoV.

So, I guess what I'm saying is: you seem to be the one who's whining about people who complain, and "adapting" to the nerfs doesn't alter the fact that they ARE nerfs. Seeing as how you haven't played in over a year, it IS just possible that you're experiencing the fun of the game as if you had never played before, while those of us who stuck around have DEFINITELY noticed the difference.

Not everyone is equally against it. But ALMOST everyone agrees that SOMETHING has to be done for SOME of the classes that were hit hardest by these double-strength global nerfs.

If you don't LIKE this activity,, then feel free to move on to another thread. But don't come in here insulting the posters by denigrating their opinion en masse and categorizing us all as "whiners" and "drama-queens".

It just marks you as a closed-minded, self-obsessed....alright, I'm going to stop there.

Have a good one.