Last night while playing my level 22 Rad/Rad Defender and hunting with a 23 Scrapper I died and while laying there 20 feet away from the fight waiting a safe opportunity to use an awaken I got NO thats NADA ZILCH NONE and ZERO XP. I hadnt delt any damage but I had debuffed the mobs and been useing my heal.
Thanks Devs for makeing the game worse for those of us who are actually playing it. I couldnt give less of a crap about people getting PLed, THAT never hurt my game but this does.
On a simular note I noticed when my team mates leave to train 201+ feet away but in the same zone and I stay behid to hunt I still get the reduced XP of being in a group even though no one else is getting any of it. Where is the risk = reward in that ? If your gonna make it so people out of range dont get XP fine, make it so those killing get their XP as if they where soloing otherwise you just hurt the team element, now to get my risk = reward I have to quit the team while they train or let XP disapear into thin air.
I play controllers mostly and I hate the way XP is tunnel visioned on debt. I joined a scrapper fighting a monster in PP. He couldnt get it down to less then half damaged and was dying constantly. My fire/emp jumps in an starts buffing him. Holds are useless but hes taking so much damage I have to get in close to hit him with both single and group heals to keep him up. I go down twice doing this from AOE attacks. At the end he is able to defeat him when hes been fortifide by me. Unfortunately I am on my way back from the hospital so no badge and I dont remember any XP (but I was so focused on the lack of badge I might have missed it). Bottom line the scenarios for XP need to consider lots of factors, not just debt. And the idea of no debt if you have been out for a min won't work. I have been face down much longer then that waiting for the bad guys to clear so I could rez, not often but it happens. Or the situation where I am mentoring (a secret controller's tool for getting your mission's done), I go down but I have to stay for my sidekick. If this is to control PL, I put this in the arena bin: making changes that DO affect me for something that DOESN'T affect me.
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If this is to control PL, I put this in the arena bin: making changes that DO affect me for something that DOESN'T affect me.
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Amen.
if ya change they will change,if try they will find another way,so why fix it if it not broken?
liberty >50 spine/regen50 fire/ice tanker firefrozen50 emp defender rolltide
champion >50 stone/war mace
50 spine/fire scapper 50 fire/kin extremme flashfire
50 fire/fire brute flameing brutial 50 ele/shield brute Winnie Man
exhauled> 50 axe/fire brute burning axeman
Let me just state for the record that, having just gone through the headache of forming a hunting party in Boomtown, I absolutely HATE the new XP leash for 3 reasons:
1) Not everybody KNOWS about the XP leash. Unless you read the forums (which not everybody does) there's no way to instinctively know, "I have to stay within 300' of the kill to get credit for it." At least 2 of the people in the 8-man party I led a few days ago had never heard about the XP leash until I told them.
2) Some ATs -- *cough* Kheldians *cough* -- are naturally inclined to fly out ahead of the rest of the group and do mass kills, which is fine so long as they don't get more than 300' ahead of the group (yeah, right). One of the Kheldians in our party dropped out because his having to wait for the rest of us to catch up with him meant he couldn't get enough XP to satisfy himself.
3) Some missions are naturally geared toward splitting up a party. Example: "Defeat 20 clockwork in Steel Canyon." You are NOT going to find 20 CW in one place, which means you have got to split up to finish this mission quickly, and that means losing XP to the leash. There are some mods I think one can put in to remedy this -- e.g., for a "Defeat # <enemy type>" mission you should always give credit to the whole party for all <enemy type> defeated (i.e., if the number goes down, you all get credit).
Is PLing a problem? Yes, it is. Having a level 20 ask, "How do I send a tell?" is something that should never, ever happen. But inconveniencing the rest of us to tame PLers is totally lame.
NewScrapper
P.S.: Get rid of the death timer! Put all XP earned while dead toward debt instead! (Sorry, just have to plug that every now and then.)
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1) Increase mob XP outside of missions (so that street hunting becomes worth-while)
2) Decrease mob XP inside missions (to discourage farming of missions)
3) Increase mission completion bonuses (to encourage completing missions)
4) Reduce debt penalty while in missions (to make missions 'safer' than street hunting)
5) Increase XP bonus per team members (to encourage large teams for hunting & missions)
Rinse and see what happens
[/ QUOTE ]
Smartest thing I've seen all week!
HeroGUY
How about this: give the entire team mission completion bonuses for "Defeat X" missions, and have kills in any zone count towards mission completion if it's not "Defeat X in Y", and having kills the rest of the team does COUNT if the person whose mission it is ducks into another zone to hunt more or train? And, of course, have the mission completion bonus for Defeat X missions apply anywhere, regardless of zone or leash, as long as the character was "in zone" for at least 50% of the kills, or killed at least 10% of the mobs himself (even if in another zone from the rest of the kills)
The Optimist says the glass is half full.
The Pessimist says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Opportunist comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - Redwood
Alvays remember, schmot guy...any plan vere you lose you hat...is a BAD PLAN!
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If a player is in a zone, did NO damage in a combat and has dead for more than a minute, he receives no XP. If a player is more than 300 ft. away (an increase of 100 ft.) from the mob when itÂ’s defeated and did NO damage, he receives no XP. Otherwise, the player receives his full share of XP.
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no offense but this is WACK, by this new logic you do realize that pure defense defender will /never/ get any xp.
Le t me put up a scenerio for you.
My main Pink Defense is lvl 50, she has only 4 attacks, one a epic, and among them only 12 attack slots. I got to 50 doing a pure defense game, i never fired a single shot buecase i was ruiunning 4 team buff toggles and casts to bubble buffs
your proposed change would mean anyonw who go a route of pure support would never, ever, ever, level.
you changes may make it harder for folks like me and other to power level others as is sure you intent but would also mean those of use who take the rouge of pure support will never level because the only xp we get is mission bonus...
Might i siggest that it not be "anyone who attacks gets xp" to anyone who "participates"
if im not attackign bu im casting buffs on the team, or heal (though if you want to swing the extra coding you can do a check for healing that it wont count if heal is full still that has its own problem if a team is really good a healer may never heal and would have to rely on just buffing to earn the right to xp) you earn your xp
or mabe you just want a City of Blasters, Tanks, and Scrappers, its not like anyone plays Controlers and Defenders {/sarcasm}
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
And what about those AV have the capability of one-shotting most toons but run all over the map to avoid death? If you are one-shotted, then go to the hospital, make it back to the map but not to the combat area before the AV (we all know which ones run) goes down, that means no XP. Not to mention if you are a 50 and SK a 45-47. They would get no XP because they cannot hit an AV easily.
The key word in that quote is dead. If you are on the team and are within 300ft of the team doing whatever, buffing, healing, etc, you will get xp. Now if you die and did no damage, then no xp.
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The key word in that quote is dead. If you are on the team and are within 300ft of the team doing whatever, buffing, healing, etc, you will get xp. Now if you die and did no damage, then no xp.
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Read the earlier comment just one page back its sted by 2 people beside me that when their don no dammabe but are buffing/debuffing etc they GET 0 XP
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
I read the post on the previous page, the poster indicated they died, but did no damage, just debuff'd. It would benefit all to atleast attack once after aggro is held to ensure you get your xp. My other recommendation, do missions, there is no xp leash.
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Have not PL'd nor plan too. Have plenty of friends I SK to and they Exemp down don't feel like I am losing anything or not contributing. Also, most in our SG/friends have alts of various levels and don't know how many times even in pick-up groups it is have an alt at this level or that.
Personally if someone wants to PL I do not care, what I do care about are the constant calls to PL, the PLers who are new to the game in pick-up groups at higher levels, etc.
Don't think it will be that hard to nerf PLer's and have little effect on SK's PLers are space takers not contributers to a team and the current changes are not bothering me.
Are their going to be exceptions? There always is, but that is the nature of the beast, just don't see a mass exodus of players if it is harder to PL. On the boards and in game in my experience PLers are not going to be missed.
A middle ground solution to the issue to me would be to do something like give a slot or two that a char can be created up to the highest level char currently developed. Lets the veterans skip content if wanted, but still make newer players have to learn the game(hopefully).
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Remember that this change does not affect Powerlevelers in any significant way, this really only affects non-PLers (cause most PLing happens in missions)
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The "tell me how to play" argument is not valid and always pops up when someone doesn't like a change. It is cause and effect. Let people PL, makes team make-up different and effects peoples play, ways around it and ways to avoid it but now you are telling ME how to play, take it away and telling YOU how to play. Welcome to the real world, not a slam just the way it is as you can see from ONE of MY experiences below.
[/ QUOTE ] Your logic is flawed- you can't tell me that someone is telling you what to do by not telling you what to do...but lets see...[ QUOTE ]
Someone will not like the changes, the INV changes to scrappers changed the whole ballgame for me. Didn't like it, but still love and playmy scrapper.
[/ QUOTE ]This was a power change. This did not changes the underlying rules of the game. Your strategy might have to change but you cn always choose to respec and drop that power. You can even delete that char and build another if you don't like the way it works. If they suddently forced you to only play an INV scrapper you might have a comparison[ QUOTE ]
Content I understand, I personally would love to see more random events in mission such as booby traps, massive ambuses(could trip an alarm and all mobs come for you) as well as more content in general. This would cause just as many people to yell about debt, forced teaming and many more, but like the risk/reward/challenge potential.
I still see more against PL then for personally. Unless someone comes up with a better solution it appears they will keep trying to put it in check and will have to be a solid solution not a I like it not hurting anyone arguement imo.
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the only folks that have a big problem with it is the devs. Players already have a solution for unwanted tells and broadcasts- /ignore
the argument that somehow PLing causes crappy teammates is, in general, silly unless you are making the assumption that all NON plers are great teammates- and that is just not so.
I think the devs should really get back to doing what they should be doing....which is fix the problems in the game. PLing WAS a problem during and POST winterlord, but since then either most of the PLed noobs have left after finding that they couldnt play there new lvl 25 scrapper, or respeced/rebuilt there char from the ground up and learned to enjoy the game, and stayed to continue the journey. I know people that have left and thats great cause POST WL the amount of people that had NO idea how to play there new UBER char was truly scary. But lets not forget WHO created the WL PL fiasco, (the devs). it seems to me the knee jerk reaction against PLers comes from the outrage over post WL gameplay with deaths caused by players with no idea how to play their new chars. i find that as a player that has played almost every type/and combonation of toon I find myself wanting to skip some of the low lvl content and get to the higher lvl game.
I say this cause i currently have 4 lvl 30+ toons and the last thing i want to do is SLOG throught the lower lvl content AGAIN fopr the 50th time. So im the first to admit I use whatever means are available to speed up the process...
i agree whole heartedly with earlier posters that state once you have a higher lvl toon you should be able to skip ahead and start a toon at say half/two thirds of you max toon (ie if you have a lvl 30 main you skip to lvl 15-20 and start from there choosing powers like a respec...
if the devs want to fix a problem, its the people running around with bought accounts, (example the 2 poeple flying round with peacebringers asking questions like how do you create coloured text?) I mean seriously the guy had something like 50 million inf in the bank and asked me to PL him...FFS the guy had a lvl 20 keldian and had no idea how to use it, had no idea what debt was? Even tho he offered me 1 million inf a lvl i turned him down, and told him he really needed to play the game, because the stories are great and if you outlvl your contacts you will get no missions etc. I also told him that all the power under his control meant nothing, cause he had no idea how to use it.
SO if the devs want to stop something stop people buying accounts on ebay and such and FIX PLing not try to stomp it out casue as you squash one way of doing you ruin the play for others, i mean im thinking of deleting my PURE defender becasue the way every thing is getting assocaited to damage done my defender would never get any xp...and on a side not i should not have to risk drawing agro to get xp (note to last poster) IM a healer i have only the attack i HAD to have, i heal not fight.
Listen devs, I am a grinder I do the missions and have every mission badge. I don't care for Pling, But you have made it very hard on everyone one because A) you don't like Plers B) You have the power to do something but don't think things threw and C) Don't care anything about game quality because at the end of the day you go home and do something else this isn't your idea of relaxing and fun. Well I can tell you this you will never ever stop power leveling stop trying its like chasing a ghost. once a hero gets a few powers he can pl anyone I have had friends that are Controllers Pl others with there pets, 3 scrappers go in and totally destroy tons of baddies in minutes with 4 or 5 people just chillen with group invis and leadership on right in the middle of all the action. How can I put this power leveling is like water in your hands no matter how hard you try to keep all the water in your hands evetually the water finds a way to leak out. this has happened to alot of games, devs gms dms or what ever you want to call them, thinking they are going to be the one that is going to stop the wrong doing in their game. I.E. neverwinter nights my favorite exploit was the cleric/rogue....the perfect thief....as you could pick pocket someone and cast serinitey (caster is invisable to everyone friend or foe while active)(like a phase shift but totally invisable). This game isn't the first and wont be the last. the only way to stop it is if Everyone wants it to stop and thats not going to happen. PLing don't hurt anyone, if you don't like PLers don't team with them, Personnally any advanage I can find in the game I will use but I want to go threw the content at least once. I say leave it alone your just going to make it worse on all of us. its like a scab if you would just leave it alone it would go away but if you keep picking, it will just get worse. I can't tell you how stupid it was to put the one minute rule on the patch. it takes time for the defenders to res and you have to wait sometimes for the foes to go back to awaken. the leash is flawed because if someone gets out of range they have no xp but you don't get the solo rate when they are. Please call back the Patch and just let sleeping dogs lye.
your pal,
Mow
[ QUOTE ]
1) Increase mob XP outside of missions (so that street hunting becomes worth-while)
2) Decrease mob XP inside missions (to discourage farming of missions)
3) Increase mission completion bonuses (to encourage completing missions)
4) Reduce debt penalty while in missions (to make missions 'safer' than street hunting)
5) Increase XP bonus per team members (to encourage large teams for hunting & missions)
Rinse and see what happens
[/ QUOTE ]
I completely agree with this post 100%.
Also I think that if they really want to control power leveling they should make it so that you can't just plant someone at a door and then send a tank or scrapper off to do the killing. I am in no way saying that powerleveling is good or bad, but I will say that I think it is completely ruining this game because no places(Justice) and people are pretty much running full day farms for exp and you have nothing but nwe characters or alts getting leveled.
I suggest making PI a hazard Zone much like the Hive is for level 45-50, and then move the 40-44 out to other zones because right now Crash Site is the only zone with a full 40-50 level range as an alt to PI. I would like to see Bricks go to 30-40 and Founders 32-42 with certain spots having +2 level enemies over the zone level cap, or something to that effect.
I think with PI being made a Hazard Zone that would make ppl spread out more since those that would like to pl would have to move around to other zones instead of just resting in PI and waiting for the pl'ing to start.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
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Remember that this change does not affect Powerlevelers in any significant way, this really only affects non-PLers (cause most PLing happens in missions)
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I can't help but think that this is EXACTLY what they're going for. If someone wants to PL, they can go do it in their mission, and stop lagging up the trams.
PLing will probably never go away fully. Even if they add enough new content to last us 20 years (that's most peoples PL-ing excuse, lack of content) there are still people who's sole purpose in this game is to have the most lvl 50 toons possible.
At least now, they're not bothering the rest of us who actually PLAY the game
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) Increase mob XP outside of missions (so that street hunting becomes worth-while)
2) Decrease mob XP inside missions (to discourage farming of missions)
3) Increase mission completion bonuses (to encourage completing missions)
4) Reduce debt penalty while in missions (to make missions 'safer' than street hunting)
5) Increase XP bonus per team members (to encourage large teams for hunting & missions)
Rinse and see what happens
[/ QUOTE ]
I completely agree with this post 100%.
Also I think that if they really want to control power leveling they should make it so that you can't just plant someone at a door and then send a tank or scrapper off to do the killing. I am in no way saying that powerleveling is good or bad, but I will say that I think it is completely ruining this game because no places(Justice) and people are pretty much running full day farms for exp and you have nothing but nwe characters or alts getting leveled.
I suggest making PI a hazard Zone much like the Hive is for level 45-50, and then move the 40-44 out to other zones because right now Crash Site is the only zone with a full 40-50 level range as an alt to PI. I would like to see Bricks go to 30-40 and Founders 32-42 with certain spots having +2 level enemies over the zone level cap, or something to that effect.
I think with PI being made a Hazard Zone that would make ppl spread out more since those that would like to pl would have to move around to other zones instead of just resting in PI and waiting for the pl'ing to start.
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No, simple fact Portal missions are fun
high level toons have low level friends
High level toons sid kick low level friends to do portal missions.
as a game designer and gamer i have a slew of idea for cure jacks hae of pl but ive given up trying to reach him in his ivory tower he doesnt care, it his sandbox and he'll play how he wants.
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Last night while playing my level 22 Rad/Rad Defender and hunting with a 23 Scrapper I died and while laying there 20 feet away from the fight waiting a safe opportunity to use an awaken I got NO thats NADA ZILCH NONE and ZERO XP. I hadnt delt any damage but I had debuffed the mobs and been useing my heal.
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Let me see if I'm clear here... you were running into melee range to heal the scrapper, but couldn't take half a second to toss a brawl (or Neutrino Bolt). That's all it takes. One little attack. Is that asking too much? Or just don't die... that works too.
As for the 300' thing... just so we're all clear, that's substantially more than visual range. If you can SEE the enemy, you'll get XP for the enemy. Simple. If you're too far away to see the enemy... then you're obviously not fighting that enemy. Tell me again why you should get XP for it.
Though I really DO like the idea of sending wasted XP to debt. If debt is fully paid off, well then you've been dead WAY too long anyway.. get up and contribute. 
[ QUOTE ]
1) Increase mob XP outside of missions (so that street hunting becomes worth-while)
2) Decrease mob XP inside missions (to discourage farming of missions)
3) Increase mission completion bonuses (to encourage completing missions)
4) Reduce debt penalty while in missions (to make missions 'safer' than street hunting)
5) Increase XP bonus per team members (to encourage large teams for hunting & missions)
.
Rinse and see what happens
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I'll buy this on ONE condition. Keep the total XP for missions the same. Whatever you reduce the enemies by, you'd better make the end result compensate fully. Otherwise, those of us that run missions normally are being severly penalized.
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Last night while playing my level 22 Rad/Rad Defender and hunting with a 23 Scrapper I died and while laying there 20 feet away from the fight waiting a safe opportunity to use an awaken I got NO thats NADA ZILCH NONE and ZERO XP. I hadnt delt any damage but I had debuffed the mobs and been useing my heal.
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Let me see if I'm clear here... you were running into melee range to heal the scrapper, but couldn't take half a second to toss a brawl (or Neutrino Bolt). That's all it takes. One little attack. Is that asking too much? Or just don't die... that works too.
As for the 300' thing... just so we're all clear, that's substantially more than visual range. If you can SEE the enemy, you'll get XP for the enemy. Simple. If you're too far away to see the enemy... then you're obviously not fighting that enemy. Tell me again why you should get XP for it.
Though I really DO like the idea of sending wasted XP to debt. If debt is fully paid off, well then you've been dead WAY too long anyway.. get up and contribute.
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Actually I've sniped a few mobs that wandered out of visual range before the snipe hit.
The Optimist says the glass is half full.
The Pessimist says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Opportunist comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - Redwood
Alvays remember, schmot guy...any plan vere you lose you hat...is a BAD PLAN!
[ QUOTE ]
Actually I've sniped a few mobs that wandered out of visual range before the snipe hit.
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Well, notice the part where I said *substantially more than visual range.* Unless a snipe is fully slotted for range (doubtful, unless you're HOed) the max is 175 feet. That's 125 feet of leeway.
Besides.. if your snipe hit, you did damage and should have gotten your share of XP no matter what 
So why are you complaining
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Actually I've sniped a few mobs that wandered out of visual range before the snipe hit.
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Well, notice the part where I said *substantially more than visual range.* Unless a snipe is fully slotted for range (doubtful, unless you're HOed) the max is 175 feet. That's 125 feet of leeway.
Besides.. if your snipe hit, you did damage and should have gotten your share of XP no matter what So why are you complaining
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only onthe mobs he fired on, in odert to get all the xp due to him he has to attack /each and ever single enemy/ but hey if you wnat us defenders to spend more time attackingthen buffing you, that your pogative
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
1) Increase mob XP outside of missions (so that street hunting becomes worth-while)
2) Decrease mob XP inside missions (to discourage farming of missions)
3) Increase mission completion bonuses (to encourage completing missions)
4) Reduce debt penalty while in missions (to make missions 'safer' than street hunting)
5) Increase XP bonus per team members (to encourage large teams for hunting & missions)
Rinse and see what happens
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"