Well that still didnt quite answer my question.
its like this. Say im an illusion controller (which I am) and im teamed with a fire tank.
During the course of one fight against 20 mobs.. I killed two of them using my spectral wounds and blind (single target attacks) and the fire tank killed the other 18 using his burn.
We were both standing right next to each other so the range changes do not effect it.
My question is.. Will I now only get XP for the two mobs I killed? or will I still get XP for the entire 20 mobs.. even though I only did damage to 20 of them?
If I only get XP for the mobs that I damaged.. teaming is going to be useless for anyone who isnt AOE based.
ya know what.. actually.. if you have to damage mobs to gain XP, then this system is broken already.
What are support classes supposed to do? Ya know alot of defenders and controllers.. their only job in a big group is to keep people alive through buffs and heals. Are you now saying that these people should not get any XP from the mobs killed? What about a MC/FF controller who does nothing but Bubble teammates and cast mass hypnosis? Does he have to open the fight with total domination in order to get XP? what if it doesnt hit every mob in the group.. he only gets XP for the ones it hits?
What about low level players who have been sidekicked and do not have access to AOEs yet :P.
it just doesnt make sense.. I hope im just not understanding this correctly.
AND ANOTHER THING! (heh)
This doesnt effect how XP is gained in missions?
doesnt that basicly make this whole thing a fairly worthless change? if you want to PL someone, now you just have to do it inside a mission.. which.. incidently.. is how most PLing is done these days anyway.
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Well that still didnt quite answer my question.
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Sorry. I assumed that you'd understand that the changes establish a 300' xp zone around each character. Anything that happens within that zone is just as before.
In your ill controller + fire tank example, as long as you both are within 300' of each mob as they die, you will both receive team xp the same as before.
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This doesnt effect how XP is gained in missions?
doesnt that basicly make this whole thing a fairly worthless change? if you want to PL someone, now you just have to do it inside a mission.. which.. incidently.. is how most PLing is done these days anyway.
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This change is centered around rewards from absolute zero risk. Inside missions, it is often marginally higher risk than parking one's character inside the train station.
ok cool 
.. thanks for the clarification. Had me worried there hehe.
The only thing that this change does is making the game less fun for some players.
PLing is going to happen weather you like it or not, and its happening everywhere, after running through all the story arcs its fun to have the ability to skip to the parts of the game that one prefers.
This is an unnecessary restrictive change, if anything, then its going to make everyone less happy about the game, for the simple fact that the players who think that PLing is some sort of bad behaviour are going to still see it happening since there is no way to prevent it completely and they will still be unhappy about it, while the players who dont mind skipping a few levels where they feel like it are going to get disappointed and of course find another way.
Ok lets look at what happend to my team last night. 1 tanker, 2 scrapers, 1 blaster and me a emp defender. We are haveing a good time and doing a kill mission in eden. We where fighting some DE and we lose the blaster to a swarm, one of the scrapers goes down and I'm chain healing the other scrapper. Ok the tank drops burn and the DE's run, the scarpper and tank go off after them and I stay back to rez the scraper and blaster. Ok here is where it gets fun...I rez the scraper and off he goes to help the other two, I then wait for Rez to recharge and go to rez the blaster. Now in the mean time the team has caught up with the DE's and are fighting them again, however they are now over 300' away, so now I don't get XP and thanks to the recharge on rez the blaster who I stayed back to rez gets no xp also.
No this happend to me twice last night, the 2nd time the tank droped burn again and off go the DE's. the scrapers and tank catch them and kill them before the blaster and I can get close, again at over 300' away. Now I have teleport as my movement power, 1 it fits the idea of my toon and 2 give me recall friend wich I use alot as a healer. The 2nd time this happend I couldn't keep up becuse I was low on power from healing and couldn't port.
So 2 times I lose Xp becuse I'm doing my job as a Emp def. However I did see the new PL trick, watched the bridge character with group fly and grant Invisibility fly above the tank as he attacked everthing in PI, keeping the lvl 4 toon in the air and invis...Oh joy.
Problems with the xp range:
If your exempt and out of range of your exemptor you get no debt removal or influence for anything you arrest. And neither do they.
If you unexempt and stay out of range your level still negates any experience gain for your teammates.
Simply put if I am not in range of them exempt I should still be able to get debt reduction/influence and or if I am out of range of them my level should not effect there xp since I am not a distribution factor. This needs to be fixed fast.
Statesman, for the love of all that is good and holy, will you guys quit changing everything that makes CoH different (in a good way) and fun as opposed to every other MMORPG out there?
I think if you guys are striving to alienate everyone by molding this game to something it never was at the onset, you're doing a bang-up job.
Sad to see the golden goose of fun games being slain by every retarded change like this one.
Sad indeed...
The thing that seems, well, odd about this change is that virtually all the powerlevelling i've encountered recently has been in instanced missions at Portal Corp. The only hunting i generally see on the streets of PI is for the Illusionist badge and the like. It's far more efficient for a level 50 tank to bring a group into, for example, the Dreck mission and repeatedly herd the freaks, arrest them and reset.
There are a few things that i would like to say to the Devs regarding their whole obsession with trying to curb powerlevelling at any cost:
1.) Changing a commonly farmed mission just means that powerlevellers will find a different mission to farm, and making all missions timed will just alienate every single one of us who allows real life to take precedence and can't complete every mission in the session we received it.
2.) As i just pointed out, all the hardcore powerlevellers i've seen or heard of never streetsweep anyway. Indoor/instanced missions eliminate interference from outside mobs/players.
3.) What someone does during their mission does not impact my enjoyment of the game; i really don't care if the group in "the next mission over" are busy stacking Wafflemen for massive XP. However, the ongoing attempts to stop powerlevelling do have some impact, and often not in a positive manner. Though annoying, most of the "fixes" implemented to "improve fun" have not annoyed me enough to seriously consider quitting CoH. Yet.
4.) Was there really a time (Winter Lords aside) when people herded/hunted monsters to PL? The XP given by monsters and AV's compared to the time and risk is so pathetic that i know of no reason to fight either aside from it being the heroic thing to do, to complete a mission or bragging rights. (Which is why i never understood why soloing an AV should be a mortal sin: it's in-genre, takes forever if you can do it and awards trivial XP with great risk compared to fighting minions.)
The only time i ever felt powerlevelling interfered with my enjoyment of the game was when Bastion's TF gave a hunt mission for the first mission and people kept hunting, getting the mission bonus and restarting the TF. This made it very difficult to find people to run the Taskforce and get the badge. The solution was to simply make the first mission a door mission, no awkward XP tethering or other elaborations required.
Simply put: Other people powerlevelling has almost no impact on my enjoyment of the game, but elaborate restrictions intended to prevent powerlevelling do.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
This is without a doubt, the worst change I have seen made to this game. It's affecting everything in the game so you have to stay up your teammates butts the whole time if you want credit for kills and xp from the group.
Come on guys, how about focusing on stuff that's important like content for 50 characters and making missions better by not sending me to Perez Park at level 50 from Peregrine Island.
If you guys are trying to eliminate every last fun thing about CoH, then by all means keep moving the way you are moving. I just hope you all can say POP and get your heads out before it's too late and you've taken a game that was fun to play and turn it into just another MMO game that really isn't any different. You make these changes and it's still a dog with fleas, remember that.
Please put the xp range and kill credit ranges and such back to zone wide so teams can split up and be effective on Kill X missions and such.
Honestly, if they wanted to curb Pling so badly, just turn the 2 high lvl Av fest arcs(can't think of the name at the moment), and the "to save a 1000 worlds" arc into 3 seperate TF's. It would do 2 things: prevent them from having to turn most of those missions into timed ones, and people wanting to do those missions for the storey/gettting the badges and what not, would be able to get teams together for them.
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The only thing that this change does is making the game less fun for some players.
PLing is going to happen weather you like it or not, and its happening everywhere, after running through all the story arcs its fun to have the ability to skip to the parts of the game that one prefers.
This is an unnecessary restrictive change, if anything, then its going to make everyone less happy about the game, for the simple fact that the players who think that PLing is some sort of bad behaviour are going to still see it happening since there is no way to prevent it completely and they will still be unhappy about it, while the players who dont mind skipping a few levels where they feel like it are going to get disappointed and of course find another way.
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I tend to agree with this. Not only that but the majority of the players that PL are the ones that have already "been there done that". Normally, they already have a high level character and are looking for something new in a character. PLing should not be stopped, slowed down or touched. I think it is up to each individual player to decide how they want to play the game. Stopping PLing is dictating to the players how they need to play the game. CoH is a wonderful game and the best, IMHO. But if things like this continue... it will be just another MMORPG. None of us want to see that happen.
And unfortunately, all of your cries for help will fall on deaf ears. Statesman has pleased his fanboys, and thats all that matters. I wholeheartedly agree that pling should be allowed and left alone, especially for those of us who have run the gamut already and want to skip the boring bits. Having said that, it's becoming harder and harder to do so with all these bloody changes.
On a side note, I've found myself paying more attention to my Xbox and Sega CD isos (yeah, Sega CD, thats how bad this game is getting) and less on CoH. Who needs the aggrevation of perma-nerf anyways?
I don't know if this thought has crossed the Devs minds or some of the die hard anti PL'ers minds before but this is just my feeling on the whole PL/no PL situation.
I have a friend who has played this game since June of last year. He plays almost as much as I do, but is more serious in his leveling approach. (IE, he doesn't switch to an alt every hour or so like me ) As a result, he has SEVERAL toons at lvl 50, 7 of them.
He has done all the TF's and trials (excluding the ones in the Shadow Shard) at least once, maybe not with the same character, but he has done them. By the time he had his 2nd lvl 50, he was getting tired of starting up new characters and having to go through the boring low levels again. He starts having more fun with the game once you get a travel power, around lvl 14 for most.
So, he got a 2nd account and started PL'ing alts up to bypass some of the low level drudgery.
Now for the big question. If PL'ing is so bad and makes it so the people who do PL hit 50 faster and then leave the game sooner, why is my friend still here playing the game and actually keeping his second account around giving MORE money back to the game?
I mean, he's hit 50 with 7 different characters! He's seen and done most of the content yet he's still here playing. Does it really matter if he PL'd to a level he felt comfortable playing at if he is still actually here PAYING FOR and PLAYING the game?
All these attempts to stop PL'ing are having a very negative effect on players, even the ones who don't like PL. I'll explain what I mean.
Imagine if they did away with PL completely. Imagine if the only way you could play together with other people is if you were the same level as each other, because even a 1 level difference is a sort of PL for the lower level people. So that does away with the entire Sidekick system.
Now imagine you have a tight-knit SG and play together every chance you get but one of you is away from the game due to work, school, illness or vacation. They come back and see that most of the SG has leveled past him and is now just 2 levels ahead of him. He tries to join up with them but can't because of the no PL/more than a level difference policy.
I can't say that said player would quit on the spot, but they wouldn't be happy in the least. And maybe that turns into a desire to play less, which means his SG gets further out of reach and pretty soon he's in pick up groups trying to level and having a hard time doing that.
MMO's are a community, or so I thought. Yes, communities have people with varying opinions and that is a good thing. The Devs make the rules we have to play by, just like the lawmakers of a community make laws.
But I have to say that the day that my local lawmakers pass a law saying that people can longer move ahead quickly, that everyone has to grow at the same level, is a black day in the life of everyone.
There are those who are above average, that given the opportunity SHOULD be allowed to move ahead quicker.
Would anyone hold back a child who in the 1st grade can read, write and do math at a 4th grade level? Would they tell them, "Sorry, you're only in the 1st grade, you can't move up to 4th grade just because you CAN do the things they are doing" ?
That child could become frustrated and lose interest, quit and throw away skills that could benefit many others in time.
All I'm trying to get at (all be it by the long route 
) is that if PL is taken away entirely, some people WILL stop playing. And even if those people only add up to a relatively small percentage, say 5%, it's now just gotten 5% harder to find someone to fill a space on a TF or an AV mission.
It's a trickle down effect. Sure, you may initially lose only 5% of the people playing, but eventually that number could grow. That 5% may have friends and when their friends leave, they may leave. Then you have an even harder time putting teams together which frustrates even more people and maybe some of them leave...
It's a viscious cycle.
Can all PL'ing be stopped? Sure it can.
Should PL'ing be stopped? No, I don't think it should.
These are just my opinions of course. The whole thing about a child being held back is extreme, but it is an example of what COULD happen.
I do know however, that if my friend were unable to PL his new characters to a point where he can have FUN with them, he will quit. And if he goes, I'll probably not be too far behind.
Not because I can't get PL'd and not because I'm would no longer be having fun playing the game without him, but because this game represents a way for me to keep in touch with my friends and if they are not here, I'm wasting my time and money.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
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If a player is in a zone, did NO damage in a combat and has dead for more than a minute, he receives no XP.
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This may have already been asked, and I apologize in advance if it has, but does this mean if a Defender is in a group and all he/she does is heal and buff, she/he will get no XP? I realize the quote above has 'and has been dead...' rather than 'OR has been dead...', but paranoia forces me to ask. If the answer is that the Defender gets bupkis, this makes the Defender class even harder to play since they usually do little damage and their main purpose is support to keep a group up and running.
[Edit] Okay, I've been able to look at more of the posts and I see it has been addressed. Whew. I like playing my Controllers and Defenders. I am much relieved.
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Now we need to Fix Mob Clumping...Dumpster Diving and Corner Herding are resulting from this. If the foes gave each other elbow room the above exploit would vanish and it be tactically fair for Foe and hero alike!!
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I can see your point, and I've often felt like I was exploiting a cheat by doing this. However, I also feel that it's a little ridiculous to think, when my super-strength tanker is so strong as to be able to stomp the ground so hard that he knocks down everyone within 15 feet of him, that foes crowded into a small area couldn't be smacked simultaneously with one punch, simply because there is no room to get out of the way.
Just a thought. I mean, it's not like the jaw of a bad guy is going to stop a punch from someone who can crush a car, y'know? Hitting 2 or 3 baddies at once (and I think 3 is the most I ever got at one shot through this bug) is not outside the realm of possiblity, even when you only MEANT to hit one.
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Still hampers team splitting in Zones, which is probably a limitation they have anyway as I mentioned later.
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Not to sound like a fanboy here, but what experience, exactly, does one have to claim if one's teammates are so far away as to be completely undetectable? If you can't even SEE what they're doing to a bad guy, how could you possible say you "experienced" it? And if you didn't experience it, why should you get xp for it?
Makes perfect sense to me. It's a pain in the butt when hunting Spirit masks in DA, but hey, maybe some badges SHOULD be a pain in the butt. Makes it mean more when you get them.
Not meant as an attack, just an observation.
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I like the suggestion that holds do 1 pt of damage. Or 0.01 pt. I don't care. As a scrapper and tank enthusiast, I like my targets still. The hold that stopped them is as valuable as my hit.
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As long as we're talking about holds, and non-damage powers, I have a question:
Can anyone explain to me why, as a controller, my control over the mind of another which causes him to kill his comrade gains me no xp? I mean, confuse is what I'm talking about in particular, but any mind-altering power which deludes your enemy into being your friend is EXACTLY what an illusion or mind controller SHOULD be doing. It's a slow enough process (confuse, wait for recharge, confuse again, wait for recharge...) as it is that it could hardly be said to be an "imbalance". Even if a controller were to do this EXCLUSIVELY, which I doubt many have the patience for, what's wrong with giving them exp for foes they have defeated in such a manner?
Personally, I would think that the more experience you have in controlling the minds of others, the more powerful you would become as a "controller" (i.e., you would level-up).
Seems like an awfully arbitrary decision, especially since it only affects AT's that are not very solo-friendly to begin with. I know my tanker was solo'ing on invinc by lvl 24, but my ill/emp controller is capped at tenacious, any higher and death is all but inevitable.
I know this thread isn't for this topic, States, but can i get an answer anyway? I've asked it before in another thread, no response.
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Still hampers team splitting in Zones, which is probably a limitation they have anyway as I mentioned later.
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Not to sound like a fanboy here, but what experience, exactly, does one have to claim if one's teammates are so far away as to be completely undetectable? If you can't even SEE what they're doing to a bad guy, how could you possible say you "experienced" it? And if you didn't experience it, why should you get xp for it?
Makes perfect sense to me. It's a pain in the butt when hunting Spirit masks in DA, but hey, maybe some badges SHOULD be a pain in the butt. Makes it mean more when you get them.
Not meant as an attack, just an observation.
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well, problem is, if your team splits to hunt, its not so much that you get no xp's from the other half of the team, its the fact the xp is still be split for a team. lets say for arguments sake, 8 man team hunting in boomtown. they split into 2 4 man teams to hurry up a few defeat xx missions. now, while out of xp range of each other, their xp is still being split for an 8 man team, its just the other 4 guys xp is going to no one. in other words, each half of the team is taking a larger risk by splitting the team, but actually getting less of a reward.
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MMO's are a community, or so I thought.
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Yes, I agree. I have often used the referance toa coffee house. I have made some very close friends that are spread all accross the country. We meet in the CoH "coffeehouse" near daily to talk and play. we have such a good time together. we are like family. Now, if PLing were to be taken away or even continued to be nerfed, when one or more of us level past others of our group... some of them will loose interest ( as was stated by an earlier post) and will quit the game.
The content is only PART of the reason that I continue to play! It is the friendships that i have made and continut to develop that have kept me here for many months. If my friends were to ever stop playing because of a frustration like the lack of PLing in order to catch up to thier friends, then I would have no problems with not playing. There are plenty of online communities out there and I believe that it is the people that you play with that makes up 75% of the online gamming fun! Right now CoH is the best game going (IMHO) but that will change if this continues. Please do not let it. Please allow it to be a choice per player.
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As long as we're talking about holds, and non-damage powers, I have a question:
Can anyone explain to me why, as a controller, my control over the mind of another which causes him to kill his comrade gains me no xp? I mean, confuse is what I'm talking about in particular, but any mind-altering power which deludes your enemy into being your friend is EXACTLY what an illusion or mind controller SHOULD be doing. It's a slow enough process (confuse, wait for recharge, confuse again, wait for recharge...) as it is that it could hardly be said to be an "imbalance". Even if a controller were to do this EXCLUSIVELY, which I doubt many have the patience for, what's wrong with giving them exp for foes they have defeated in such a manner?
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No offense, but I play an Ill/Rad as an alt.
I did the Positron TF twice last week. First time I went 14-16, second time 16-17.5...so it's not like I didn't rack up some nice exp.
Three people. No tank or scrapper. In fact, last time I had a SK'ed 11th level Peacebringer and a 12th level Empathy/Rad defender paired up with me. We were getting Level 16 mobs. By the end of it, the PB and Defender were 15th, and I'd hit 17th and then some.
How did we win? Confusion. I do not have Blind, nor Flash. Zero holds. The only time anyone died is when the PB charged ahead of me and started blasting in Nova....and ate Quantum or Void Stalker fire before I'd sicced the squid-killer on his own team, detonated all the walking bombs to AE the Vahzilok or CoT, and made the Clockwork bosses mangle his own people as we pelted him with single-target fire.
Confusion let us move through faster and more effectively. My exp gain, as a result, was faster...and the TF would have been impossible to do without Decieve.
If I got exp off confused mobs killing other mobs, I'd be the fastest AT to 50th in the game.
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Personally, I would think that the more experience you have in controlling the minds of others, the more powerful you would become as a "controller" (i.e., you would level-up).
Seems like an awfully arbitrary decision, especially since it only affects AT's that are not very solo-friendly to begin with. I know my tanker was solo'ing on invinc by lvl 24, but my ill/emp controller is capped at tenacious, any higher and death is all but inevitable.
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By 24th, I expect to go far higher than Tenacious. Confusion is exactly how I intend to do it.
May I suggest continuing this on the Controller board?
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Now, if PLing were to be taken away or even continued to be nerfed, when one or more of us level past others of our group... some of them will loose interest ( as was stated by an earlier post) and will quit the game.
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Doesn't sidekicking allow you to play together socially even better than PLing because all parties are actively contributing?
Sailboat
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Sure it does. SKing allows people to continue to play together socailly.. however, if PLing are continued to be nerfed.. then the experiance that is earned while SKed would be nearfed as well. The only thing then that SKing would provide is a prolonged in-game life. You would not die as quickly. Would you ever be on equal footing? nope.. not unless your friends decided not to play thier characters to allow you to catch up. Is that fair to ask someone to do that? Nope. Why would anyone want to go through a game being dependant on a SK in order to play with thier friends? Rediculious... it really is.
Your question is too broad. The are instances under the XP Change that you would and wouldn't get your full share of team xp for a group of enemies. From another summary that was asked for:
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the XP Range change in summary:
(going off memory, but there is an 'XP Range' thread with several dev posts to get the full story)
Inside of missions:
Same as before. It was initially going to be tweaked, but not anymore.
Outside of missions:
<ul type="square">[*]If you hit a mob, and the mob dies outside your 300' (100 yards) radius, you DO still get your share of xp.[*]If you do not hit a mob, and a teammate kills it outside of your 300' radius, you DO NOT get any xp.[*]In either case, xp will portioned as team xp is already, but if you are not in the 300' radius and did not land a blow on that mob your xp from that kill will just evaporate.[/list]This change is to designed to curtail outdoor powerlevelling where a hero can easily earn reward with zero risk, or teaming - but not really. Curbing zero-risk xp gain in missions is more difficult to target so the proposed tweak in missions was dropped.
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