Should we bug missions that spawn bosses in excess such as the end of the General Z arc where I ended up solo against 6 or so bosses?
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States, it has been the experience of a great many players (mentioned on other threads) that *multiple* unnamed bosses show up on missions that they entered alone.
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I'll check this!
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This is why in Beta we sugested a reduction in power to the Enhancements.
Particularly DO and SO's.
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Yep, agreed with that idea when I saw it back then too. At least and especially for damage (which are probably the most popular type). Make damage enhancements on the same scale as defense and resistance enhancements (5/10/20).
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Boss Changes
.snip.
But, I digress (apologies to Peter David). My main issue right now is the one shot defeats. Blasters, Controllers or Defenders who round a corner a little too quickly can find themselves facing instant debt. They have no opportunity to prepare for the boss because they didnt see him. I do like that Bosses now stay around longer in fights, but I dont like how deadly they can be so we are actively analyzing this situation.
.snip.
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Hm. Here's an idea:
Player(s) get(s) within detection range of the Boss.
Boss Battle Cry (like F10, with the pointing) activates.
Boss does not attack until X seconds after Battle Cry
("Get $heroname, my minions!")
(or Boss uses a click power that buffs himself and/or
minions a LITTLE)
The X seconds is enough time to strafe back behind the
corner, hit a travel power, and flee!
Of course, if $heroname leaves detection range, Boss
bellows an Instance-wide broadcast:
"Yes, flee, you yellow-bellied coward! $Boss's boss was
right when he told me how scared you were of me!"
People like?
Alternately, Boss should have some low-level wimpy attacks
he uses to "check out" $heroname. Either Boss Brawl or
some other relatively wimpy power.
More dangerous Bosses might have this Battle Cry:
"So, $heroname, we meet at last. Be warned, I will not
hold back against you, for I, the great $Bossname,
command terrible force you cannot comprehend!"
(Cue the X second delay before Boss fires his Alpha.
If the game can detect a hero's attack power before it
hits the Boss, have the Boss go right to his Big Attack
without delaying. "$heroname, I lied! No delay!")
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They are just +1.
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You say it - but I don't belive it. My blaster could take on a +2 (purple) boss pre-issue 3 (was risky but not impossible) - now a +0 (orange) boss can kill me if I don't suck down 15+ insps.
*snip*
I'm just a bit sad I have to retire my main at 40 because progress has become so slow and painful its not fun anymore.
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They may be SUPPOSED to just be +1, but thats certainly not my experience. I have no hard figures because I've once again stopped playing my higher level characters in favour of more alts, but Bosses seemed to take at least twice as long to take down, with my l41 tank, 34 blaster, and 32 scrapper. Gaining XP at higher levels is painful at the best of times (I refuse to indulge in any sort of powerlevelling, it's not ethical IMO), this makes it worse. Beating on one boss for 5 minutes IS NOT FUN. I understand the desire to make the game more difficult, but it should be for those that WANT it, and not forced on everyone eg the difficulty slider. The changes to Bosses, as others have stated, in part invalidate the slider, the risk vs reward is way out of whack.
I solo a lot, it's the only way I can reasonably play from work, since I'm often called away. I also solo when playing from home, when my friends aren't around, want to play other characters (we're all altoholics), or I just plain don't want to team. Explicitly defining missions as group or solo would help this.
And Statesman, remember, we [censored] and moan because we care! 
Mount Glutton, L50 Stone/Stone Tank (H, retired)
Chlorinator, L50 AR/Dev Blaster (V)
Spiny Demon, L50 Spines/Regen Scrapper (H)
Crushpunk Eternal, L50 Stone/Dark Brute (H)
+ many others, all on Virtue
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I'll check this!
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You know, sometimes I don't feel like this is a game of thousands of people connected by wires and servers.
Sometimes, bizarrely enough, it just feels like a really cool RPG session round at a friend's house, where the GM has his own ideas but he's always willing to discuss where the campaign's going, and you know that he's actually listening, and he really gives a damn, and that matters.
Yay Statesman and all the other Devs.
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The 24+ respec is a problem, but if bosses are now +1 equivalent then simply change that respec so that ONLY bosses spawn exactly one level lower than they did before. Problem solved, the respec is now identical in difficulty to the pre-I3 boss changes.
Dwimble
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Along those lines, perhaps toning down the "Alpha-Strike" ability of these Bosses. Make them open with their 3rd strongest attack? Or make them go through a buff cycle? This is just to help the "stumbled upon them" squishies.
Also, I love the creative spawns you guys/gals have put into the game, popping out of the ground etc,...but the immersion is sometimes lacking when all 8 mobs rise up and do the exact same attack at the same time. By implementing a "rotating opening attack/alpha strike", whereby 8 minions rise up and several do different things first, it would be a lot more interesting.
Perhaps applying the rotating opening strike to bosses would help also.
The boss changes are actually convincing me to solo a number
of my missions.
Last night, I entered the "Doctor's Ally" mission (1st one from
(Gordon Stacy) with my lvl 35 spines/regen scrapper, a lvl 33
DM/DA scrapper and a lvl 33 ill/emp controller (all from the
same SG).
When we hit the end room, there were FOUR Paragon
Protectors. One conned purple to me (lvl 36 boss?). The other
three were red to me (lvl 36 lt?). My teammates were getting
1 or 2 shotted by the PP's while I was able to stand up to them
one at a time. It got totally out of hand once we got them
to where they fired of MoG. I think the other scrapper died
twice to the purple conned PP just from the AoE as I had
aggro.
How does this encourage grouping?!? Finding a team can be
a bit tedious when my SG-mates aren't on. Finding a team
where everyone is the same lvl +/- 1 so they don't get
hammered is just ludicrous. 
Yes, I have the difficult cranked up to Rugged. It makes the
missions more interesting solo.
Should I _have_ to change the difficulty level _everytime_
I decide to team up? If so, then place the field agents next
to the train stations or zone entrances. Having to go 1/2 way
across Steel Canyon just to change the difficulty lvl is asinine.
Thanks for looking at the changes. I've seen a number of
good suggestions. I kinda like the idea of the bosses having
being harder, but a weakness (I2 damage) would work great.
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As for why we put Bosses in missions at all in other words, why isnt everything solo-able the answer is simple. We want gameplay that encourages the best part of the game: teaming up. Soloing is fine, but a MMP really shines when you meet other people and play alongside them. Ive made many good virtual friends through other MMPs that I simply would not have done if I could solo everything all the time. I admit it: Im anti-social. Its hard to get me to group up with strangers. But after I do it, I always wonder why dont I do this more often
I might still be anti-social in real life, but in MMPs Im a social butterfly (I have no doubt that this will appear in sigs for years to come
)
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Ah, well, this has made up my group's minds - I'm with the earlier posters regarding social engineering, & the difference between wanting everything soloable (or, in our case, doable by a small team of squishies) & wanting personal contact missions soloable (or doable by a small team of squishies).
Teaming up may be "the best part of the game" for you, Statesman, or for Joe Schmoe or Mary Whosits. It may even by "the best part of the game" for me, on occasion. But that's a subjective decision, & mine alone to make.
But take heart. I'll never do a one-year subscription to an MMO again.
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There is also the issue of things like the respec trial, which was even before the change considered very difficult for the average group.
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Before the change, there was a success rate of just under 80%.
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Is that all TF's across the board or seperately they all had an 80% success rate? I've done 8 successfully for the Freaks and Rikti but not a single successful one for the Skyraider out of 7 attempts. Granted my Tank was successful (The 8 I completed) with a not gimped build and my Blaster (The 7 I failed all on the Skyraider Respec) was built very badly so that could also be taken into account.
But I hear from lot's of people online how difficult the Skyraider is as opposed to the other two at the lower levels. Not only are your powers not near what they are later in the game in your 20's but a +2 or +3 boss at the lower levels is a much larger gap as well.
I was able to complete the Skyraider mission with another alt but again it was a good build to begin with and I only went along for something to do late one night. Where as the only teams I have found for my other alt have all been busted builds like my Blaster.
I know this has been said a lot but it holds true. Why is it nearly impossible for a level 24 to 33 build that needs (Due to bad judgement choiices) the Respec to get one, while a build that does not need it can basicaly get them at will.
From what I am hearing the Boss difficulty made the upper Respecs more challenging but has made the Skyraider one impossible.
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Statesman: Thank you very much for responding to this issue. To me, it really comes down to this: I want the option. Sometimes I want to group, sometimes I don't (or it's not practical, due to my playing hours or whatever). Sometimes I want to play my scrapper, other times my defender or controller.
The boss boost takes away some of those options, IMO. If I don't feel like grouping, but am required to do so in order to make progress with the character I want to play, I won't log in. This is true in both the short and long term.
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I'm quoting the above not because I'm replying to it, but rather because it expresses my feelings on the issue quite well.
Statesman: I appreciate that you want to encourage me to group because you think it is the best way to play the game. I disagree somewhat in that being forced to socialize with strangers is not my idea of fun, but I'm at least willing to entertain the suggestion.
Despite my inclination to play solo or play with people I already know, I do group with strangers on occasion. I group with strangers, for example, to do task forces. I think task forces are a perfect example of how to encourage grouping, they offer rewards for grouping that I could not get otherwise, but it in no way impedes my progress in the game if I choose not to do them.
I think the key here is reward, not punishment. Making a large number of my missions undoable if I don't play ball is punitive, and as I'm sure you know, people do not react well to being punished. If the game becomes an exercise in choosing between something I'm not inclined to do or suffering the consequences, then this just isn't a whole lot of fun.
Part of my initial attraction to this game was that it offered so many options ... costume options, character type options, and the option to play by myself or with others. If I'm faced with fewer options, then much of my incentive for playing is removed. I'm in no way saying "roll back the changes or I quit". I'm saying that I think the sheer number of options is part of what makes the game great, and removing options diminishes it's greatness. More options that encourage grouping seems like a good thing. Less of an option to play alone if I choose is not.
Statesman, thank you so much for clearing up the concerns of your player base and clearly presenting your vision to the community. You are to be commended for going the extra mile to keep your players informed.
That being said, I think I've discovered that your vision and my hopes for the game don't coincide, and I think you've cemented my decision to move on. I had a wonderful time in City of Heroes and love the genre, but the decision to steer the game into a more team-oriented experience leaves me dismayed.
Mostly I duo-ed the game with my wife, occasionally grouping, both with people we met online, and a tight group of RL friends. We almost always had unsastisfactory results in pick-up teams, and found the game and storytelling to be much more immersive and fun when it was just the two of us, usually grouping when all of our schedules permitted or we wanted to be social. This system worked perfectly until the Archvillain levels throughout the 40s.
When we reached that point, we did every single non-AV mission we could, until we had only AV missions. Then we would either find other players with AV missions or have to wait until our other friends could join in. Normally, we would blow through the AV missions as fast and furious as we could, because we knew we wouldn't have a lot of time, and the AV missions were sort of 'speed bumps' that kept us from advancing story-lines.
But I feel like my Archvillain experiences are where the direction of the game is going (as underscored by your earlier comments), and that our method of duo'ing will certainly become more difficult, if not hampered, as the vision of CoH is met. Certainly, our Kheldian characters, which we were at one point greatly looking forward to, felt underpowered and unplayable without a supporting team (and I write this knowing that changes are coming down the pipe for them, so this may not be entirely true soon).
As others above me have pointed out, I would rather see cookies awarded for teaming, rather than punishment for those who refuse to. Keep the sliders, let players increase their own challenge. I don't even mind the occasional AV or big baddie (though in the 40s there were so many, I think it cheapened the experience of them, they became hurdles to leap over, rather than a thrill or climax to enjoy). I wouldn't have written all of this if I didn't care about City of Heroes, as I said I love the genre, have had a lot of fun in the game, and I have great respect for you and your development team for all your hard work. My hope is that perhaps if there are enough of us like me and my wife, we might just influence your thinking in this regard a tad. But for now, I'll continue to wait and watch from the sidelines.
Thank you for all that you've done.
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I don't feel the new bosses are equal to a +1 boss now. I have characters who used to be able to take on a +2 boss as easily or more easily than a +0 boss now, maybe more, and my risk of one-shotting wasnt as high on the old +2.
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They are just +1.
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So, are you saying that a even-level boss should have the same difficulty as a +1 boss from Issue 2?
Hmmm. This doesn't match my experience at all. While I have really enjoyed the changes, I can tell you with a straight face that some of the boss fights I've had in Issue 3 have rivaled Issue 2 AV fights for length. No, seriously. I don't just mean solo...I mean in groups of 2-4.
I think I could have taken out an entire group of circa-Issue 2 +1 hydra (including 2 bosses) in a similar amount of time that it would take for an even level boss currently.
Again, I like the new difficulty, but I think it would be worth double-checking and seeing if this is working accurately if the above quote is what you intended. Maybe we're all nuts, or maybe we aren't
Thanks
[url="http://tinyurl.com/4ylgy"]The Wanderers[/url] of Virtue
We farm fun!
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There is also the issue of things like the respec trial, which was even before the change considered very difficult for the average group.
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Before the change, there was a success rate of just under 80%.
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Very true. But doing a respec trial with a 30 the other day. Made most of the mobs 33. And having 5 or 6 bosses in every group made things impossible for the group makeup.
Basically this will force everyone to do 4-6 person TF to keep the number of bosses and make the level range very slim. In other words, force everyone who wants in on the trial to be the same level.
This make actually finding a group to do the trial very hard for alot of players.
Did you check to see what the success percentage is since I3 came out btw?
One last thing, a patch was applied today. Looks like it provided the free respec; however, if it does anything else I don't know as the updates page doesn't list the patch.
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I'll check this!
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Some people are unable to read between the lines. When Indigo told me that the Malta were going to be guarding a hideout with some "pretty heavy firepower" I knew there were going to be multiple Zeus Class Titans in the mission in addition to the named boss.
(Just didn't know there were going to be seven of the things! 
)
Some people also don't take their contacts seriously when they say "bring a friend" or "bring as many people as you can," things like that.
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
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Boss Changes
In our game, mob (i.e. villain) spawns depend upon the size of a team. The following is a rough approximation of how spawns are calculated:
A minion is worth 1/3 of a hero
A Lt. is worth ¾ of a hero
A Boss is worth 1.5 heroes
Admittedly, these are approximate. A single hero might spawn anywhere from 2 to 4 minions. Or a Lt. by himself. Or a Lt. and a minion.
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Thank you Stateman for moving this here, my thread in General Discussion was getting discoherent. Thank you again for the explaination.
I do have some problems here though, and a suggestion or two for you. First...
When deciding what the stats for a Boss perhaps it would be best to base the 1.5 hero of the most squishy of the ATs and not an average.
Also please consider the attack of the bosses and scale them to 1/4 the hps of the most squishy AT. That way people can widthstand 4 attacks without dying. No blaster will be able to one shot a boss that way.
The reason I solo alot is do to time of play.. usually 1 hour a day at most, and late when there are very few players my level looking for teams. I socialize with my SG both in game and via Teamspeak so I am using the social conventions, but I don't want to spend 10-15 mins looking for a good team in that one hour that I'm playing. I'd rather just run my missions and enjoy the enviroment you are providing for us.
My above suggestion will also make the 24, 34, 44 respec missions, tfs, and trials more doable with large teams that tend to spawn lots of bosses.
If the bosses are acting as if they are +1, does this mean that if a mission spawns a +1 boss, that it's acting as if it is +2?
I saw quite a few dev posts saying that the mission bosses shouldn't be +1, but they occur constantly to me. Every other boss seems to be red, and this is solo or in duo's. I don't know if I'm unlucky or what. Prior to Issue #2, I had a mission with a Rikti Mentalist Boss and a Carnie Illusionist boss... BOTH red. I'd entered the mission solo.
I watched as my defender buddy got one shotted by a red boss just two days ago in our mission, and I didn't survive much longer when he was gone and unable to keep my poor blaster healed. Both of us are level 33.
If we're already dealing with harder bosses, don't you think that missions should NOT spawn +1 bosses when we are not in large groups or have not upped our mission difficulty? A +1 boss is essentially purple to us.
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There is also the issue of things like the respec trial, which was even before the change considered very difficult for the average group.
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Before the change, there was a success rate of just under 80%.
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I've tried to think about how to phrase this to avoid being inflammatory. 80% seems quite high. I don't think 80% of the teams I've been on have remained together for an entire trial.
Is this calculated by team completion, ie if even 4 members of an original 8 man team complete it then it's complete? Is it calculated with a simple "team chooses trial" and "trial was completed" standpoint? In my experience almost half the team quits about half the time. I haven't been recording my numbers, but it happens with such frequency that I have come to expect it rather than worry about it.
Well... a solution could be contained into your own words...
Decouple offensive from defensive on Bosses: Keep the HP and reduce the damage output to previous state... That way you avoid one shot deaths and they are tougher still.
Actually the problem is that difficulty is higher because they do more damage and they can spend more time doing it.
As a collateral issue, I wish to add that to controllers (at least the ones with pets) the boost in bosses is irrelevant so their SOLO capability has been increased by this change (relative comparison with others ATs )... And I'm not completely sure that's the effect intended.
If I would have to make a decission on making a Boss encounter more challenging to the point that a team is needed, instead of boosting the Boss I would be sure that the Boss should always be FOLLOWED by special minions (i.e. bodyguards) that BOOST the boss instead of attacking the character (like Tsoo Sorcerers do but ONLY on the Boss) so the hero has the options of fleeing, trying skirmish tactics to remove bodyguards or call for help. (The same goes for AVs... Reaching the top of a villain organization would be difficult without the aid of trustfull bodyguards)
Much more difficult is the L25+ team interactions... I wonder if could be possible to use the dynamic spawn engine into missions to meassure the team performance and increase or decrease the difficulty based on that meassures. It's a crazy idea but in a "Defeat All" mission for example, time spent per arrested foe is a good meassure of how good a team is so if a group defeats fast, the spawns could be larger or harder until the "advancement rate" reaches an equilibrium with the "team skill". In any case, you will reward good teamplay with increased XP and you always keep a feeling of danger because good teams can face higher challenges.
Glad to hear that it's being looked into. I don't mind the bosses being tougher to kill (as long as the xp increases accordingly), but the 1 shot kills were just ridiculous. I got more debt from 1 hit kills in 1 mission then I've had at any time in the game.
Thanks for the update States.
It seemed to me that some of my complaints are aptly mentioned in several of the above threads:
Namely, give me a notification in the mission descriptions that alerts me to the presence of one or more Bosses that will spawn if I'm solo. That would help me to select the missions based on circumstances (do I have enough time, are there enough people online, etc). If I queue up 3 boss missions and I can't find a team willing to do them, then I have to street sweep or do other people's missions (assuming, for example that I might be 1-2 levels below them and they only want "good xp" type missions).
Give me a solo difficulty that only applies if no one else is on the team. Allow me to set it or purchase it from a Field Trainer, but let me have it, please! Call it eggshell or something to show that I'm really a wimp disguised as a Hero, unless I am in a team and can prove my AT-defined role.
Reduce the damage and/or recharge rate of Boss attacks. I would prefer them hitting lighter and faster than harder and slower though. But don't make them Scrappers (the criticals can be so deadly to 3/5 of the archetypes). Like was already mentioned "one-shots" are often really 2 shots, but they occur so quickly or after a status effect or knockdown that there is no opportunity for recovery using inspirations, heals, etc. If bosses hit lighter but faster, then you could at least respond to the problem (maybe in a non-solo situation someone else can divert the aggro, you could be buffed or healed, etc.)
Those that have to rely on damage avoidance, instead of damage mitigation (read all Defenders/Controllers/Blasters, SR Scrappers, Ice Tankers, purple inspirations... with the exception of self-heals and heal buffs, but those don't do much good when you get faceplanted in the first couple seconds of a fight) there is little opportunity to face a boss. Even with max defense, they only have to get 1 or maybe 2 hits in for you to die.
It also seems to me that most of their attacks do high or extreme damage. Someone else suggested a different villain AI. How about this: if you're solo, make the bosses first couple attacks not the high or extreme damage attacks so that there is a chance to evaluate our chances for success.
Okay, just one more thing after testing a little bit and re-reading. I went on several regular missions that didn't have bosses just as you said. However, if I go into a story arc mission this is not true. I think most of the posts have talked about story arc missions which is a real shame. I like them because I get mementos which act as log, the only thing is that I only get it if it is my mission which pretty much means I have to ask my SG to do all my story arc missions with me now which really isn't going to be possible.
Isn't there already content that encourages grouping? TF's, AV's, Hazard Zones, Monsters?
I'm of the mind that everything besides these events should be able to be done solo. Except maybe Named Boss', maybe.
Also, if you want people to enjoy the story that goes along with the game then forcing players to group for any mission that has a boss in it probably isn't the way to do it. On teams I am less likely to be able to read the mission briefing or any of the clues that come up much less the random chatter from the bad guys in the mission. Besides, many players have "solo" character concepts for Roleplaying purposes and forced grouping discourages them from actually RPing and isn't RPing part of the game too?
Just a thought.
in truth, I like the extra HP on bosses, though they pack a whallop. I, as a controller, can still solo most non-AV missions.
But to address the statement that bosses only spawn in boss mentioned missions is a falacy. Monday while soloing, two missions I completed did not mention a boss. Needless to say, both had a couple of bosses in them.
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Dwarf Star; Angel-Night, Adoniel, angel of the 12th hour of the night; among the many
Freedom Factor
and now from Warhammer Online, Gorlok, Greenskin shaman
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