Devs, badges are causing a serious problem
By
Alias_Dread,
Posted on: 2004-09-19 19:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Also..how do u spawn a Kracken?
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well, son, when 2 krakens love each other very much...
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Unfortunatly, there are no places for lot's of Warrior or family bosses, or Tsoo sorcs, so you'll end up using SC, IP and TI for them, these will be alot longer to do, and be your most grueling.
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Don't forget the Banished Pantheon. At least the Warriors spawn over a large section of the zone, and all of their bosses count.
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Positron, your option is built on a HUGE assumption that such a character has debt to work off.
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For me, the bigger assumption is that somebody will want to exemplar me. I can't find anyone willing to admit they have BP door missions, and finding the Spirits street hunting is already like pulling teeth when I can one-shot them.
People shouldn't get badge credit if they are more than 5 levels above the target. Make them Exemplar and earn it if they want the badge.
Scorus
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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But that would require people to use logic and to be outgoing and willing to actually help other people out rather than obsessing with their own gains exclusively... 
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wow ... i never though of it like that. you know ... helping people .... wow ..... then we could all do a litle jig and make daisy chains.
this is not the first time this has happened wit hte high level slaughter fest because of a poorly designed retro active game features. it happened last time. it happened this time. and it will happen next time.
the fact of the matter if that cryptic wants to to knock out these mobs and doesn't do jack crap to enforce what they want. so players go and do it any way they are able.
if you had to make EXP for kill tasks .... this problem is half solved. but let's not hear the high and mighty "help people out", when the game from the start completely ignored one of the top griefing tactics in mmorpgs with kill stealing. and did i mention they have done NOTHING to curb it? Killstealing eventually seems to fade away around the 20s, but then again, it used to be the teens. so it's pretty apparent that the people with the "kill steal" attitude are slowly moving up the levels and i guess eventually we will just have city of KSers.
but when you have that kind of policy one way .... let's not get all crazy and act like suddenly cryptic DOESN'T want people to grief by spawn killing.
and RSKing doesn't earn you exp, does it? it only gives debt pay. this is very funny to me as .... there's no reason why. i mean you lose your powers. so much of the game is based on con (for some reason). unless cryptic is going backto their posittion that players should constantly be carrying around debt. that was a pretty unpopular decision that they rolld away from.
so forget it. they made a bad idea that they knew was a bad idea and that they knew would have the effect it is currrently having. just like they knew the respec was broken from training room feedback. just like they knew that the invasion add ons , along with the new patch content, was crashing map server problems and crashes on training room.
but seeing the evident consequence, they went ahead nad did these things anyway.
I'm not going to do some RSK thing to not get expirience on something that started as a proven and known bad idea.
so ... sorry. i say we need more threads like this one that say it's a bad idea. maybe evenetually cryptic will start looking at their decisions from a reasonable standpoint.
little things like +5 mobs killing you gives you no debt or exp. talk about solving a lot of ambush issues. you can go ahead and turn the purple patch off. no exp means no one will hunt them and get the exp that cryptic doesn't want teams to get. no debt means even if you get run over by these ambushes .... THAT CAN, WILL, AND DO attack you without provocation of any kind .... then you lose nothing except a run from the hospital or an awaken.
then make the player have to earn at least 1 point of exp to make kill tasks count. i will add, then make sure that mobs reqed for anything can be found at any level. by the way .... since the RSK system only allows to get debt paid and not exp .... this protects the players from having the devs screw them over with some bad idea like forcing the RSK method, while still making sure that the player has to take on mobs that at least have to give 1 point of exp.
"you could reverse sidekick" ...... i knew i was going to hear that crap sooner or later.
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"Blaster looking to exemplar with someone with Banished Pantheon door missions!"
Dead silence.
[/ QUOTE ] Haa, you blasters ... welcome to my world. Except replace the looking for BP door mishes and exemplar and replace it for LFT. Also replace that blaster part with controller. (Blasters busy soloing?)
Deja Vu
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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Except that I don't have any debt at the moment, and intentionally dying to make exemplaring more attractive isn't sounding fun. I'll just keep running about sniping the Damned out of each group along the way as I run around PP. It'll be chaos in there for a few weeks, but should eventually calm down.
Positron - That is unrealistic. At level 50, we don't have debt. There is no in-game reason to exemplar. Exemplaring makes sense only when it is to the advantage of the exemplar. And the only time it is to their advantage is when the exemplar is trying to access level gated content.
But exemplar really didn't unlock the level gates at all because you guys were too worried about a level 50 making lowbie content trivially easy.
That makes sense, but we really do need a fix for the level-gated content. . . and I don't even see this on test yet.
Please get it on TC before subscription renewal!!!! I'll be checking on September 27th.
It's all well and good to tell us to exemplar for this, but you shouldn't actually expect us to do it. The problem is, all the high-level people are going back to redo things they've ALREADY DONE. Doing something the first time can be fun, doing it a second time is always work. Defeat quotas are borderline work to begin with, and redoing it isn't even close to fun. It's nothing but aggravation, and it's only natural that we want to get it over with as quickly as possible. My character has done every mission up to level 38. I've beaten enough of each villain that I should have earned all the badges. And yet, because I existed before the update went in, I'm starting from zero the same as everyone else. Fine, I can handle having a larger workload than new characters.
Thing is, I'm already going to have to jump through hurdles to defeat Sky Skiffs, Warwolves, BP Spirits, and any other enemy groups that aren't common in street hunting. I've fought plenty of these in indoor missions, but now that I'm out of missions for this tier, how exactly am I supposed to ever see these again? Unless an upcoming patch makes these much easier (add Warwolves back to Brickstown street groups, allow Totems to count for Spirits, add Skiffs to TV groups...), I'm pretty much out of luck.
Given that I'm already faced with huge headaches getting badges I've previously earned, there is NO WAY I'm going to exemplar to a low-level character for several days to defeat 100 Skull bosses, at greatly higher risk and with most of my powers disabled, when I can do it by myself in a couple hours with no risk. I'd say most others feel the same way. This goes WAY beyond "path of least resistance". We have two options, one of which is superior in every way but courtesy, and you want us to choose the other? The only way that'll happen is if there's more of a benefit for exemplaring. For instance, say that any enemies defeated while exemplar'd count double for these tallies.
That being said, there are ways people can be more considerate.
> Move to a different area when an XP group comes through. You have a travel power, they might not, so it'll only take you a moment to find an unoccupied area.
> Farm the low areas at odd hours. Early in the morning, PP is practically empty of XP groups.
> Offer services while you do this. Drive-by healings. Recall Friend on people lost in the park. Destroy any Rularuu portals you see.
In a week or two, the majority of the high-end people who care about badges will be caught up.
This isn't greatly different from the Great Tsoo Massacre after Icon went into the game. So you've got to run around one-shotting low-level stuff. It's not the end of the world.
They finally get in a way for people to go back and do the TF's you missed, and people complain about it?
@Mindshadow
I'm guilty of this. Level 34 Electric/Ice Blaster.
I spent the last two days farming specific foes for badges. I've earned 8 of them so far and have no intention of stopping.
Though I am aware of my surroundings, and if I see any actual group (not another farmer) fighting where I had been patrolling, I'll turn around and drag my train of death away from them and hunt in a more secluded place.
I have noticed, though, that respawn in an area where only I'm patrolling is very fast (whole groups respawn when the Lt. is killed) and as long as I keep a wide pattern, I complete the "Defeat 100" badges pretty quick (Well, quick is relative to extraordinarilly slow).
Um... so? Let 'em get their badges. Move on to other areas or groups...
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People shouldn't get badge credit if they are more than 5 levels above the target. Make them Exemplar and earn it if they want the badge.
Scorus
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Bullcrap. We already earned it. It's not our fault we were not given credit for our arrests. There is no reason we should be made to do everything twice.
Let everyone get their badges. I imagine when I hit 25 or 30 I'll be the first at that Sec. Level without a Skull/Outcast/Hellion (whatever it is) badge. Which is fine with me. It will be near impossible to get there without the earning the badge for new characters and with existing players farming for their badges, The Ticked Off will be unique in his badgelessness.
The Ticked Off will laugh at your silly jewelry and ask how things are on the farm.
Positron wouldn't let me do his task force when I was reversed Sidekicked.
I don't have the time to waste to find someone and get them to play my way. I want the mobs as fast as I can; if I wanted to relive my level X glory days I'd make a new character.
-Jeff
How about this? When you want to go get these kills, do a request for other people interested in forming a hunting party for them, XP not an option, then broadcast that you're going to be using let's say the bottom portion of the Hollows, and will be running through the zone quickly arresting CoT mages.
That gives the lowbies time to realize that someone's going to be tearing through that area, and either voice a complaint (like stay away from the riverbed) or move on, rather than waiting for the spawns to pop back up. The group should be done in an hour or so, and then it should be fine for the lowbies to pick up where they left off.
This can be handled with some communication and respect for both groups involved, as long as they know each other is out there.
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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THat is the best idea yet.
Thanks.
Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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Spudwhumper wrote:
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Thing is, I'm already going to have to jump through hurdles to defeat Sky Skiffs, Warwolves, BP Spirits, and any other enemy groups that aren't common in street hunting.
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Wow, last time I checked, badges weren't mandatory. I think it's funny that the powergamers zoomed to the top, complaining all the way about lack of content and that it was too easy, and now they're complaining about content they missed while they were powergaming.
I'm laughing my butt off!
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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I have one question that I'll post here rather than start a whole new thread about it: I've heard that there is a badge you get for killing 100 Contaminated (the Outbreak/Tutorial Zone bad guys). Is this true, or just a vicious rumour someone started to see how many people would actually waste an hour or two in the tutorial zone?
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*stands up to be counted* Sorry, not sure if anyone answered this yet...yes there is a badge, it took me about 20 minutes with a katana scrapper to do it on my own....I found it kinda fun actually 
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Spudwhumper wrote:
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Thing is, I'm already going to have to jump through hurdles to defeat Sky Skiffs, Warwolves, BP Spirits, and any other enemy groups that aren't common in street hunting.
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Wow, last time I checked, badges weren't mandatory. I think it's funny that the powergamers zoomed to the top, complaining all the way about lack of content and that it was too easy, and now they're complaining about content they missed while they were powergaming.
I'm laughing my butt off!
--NT
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Not that I'm trying to defend powergamers here, but technically they didn't pass the badges up since they were not in the game at the time. I'm only a lvl 19 Scrapper and I'm not a power gammer. I didn't have the badge for the Hellions or the Skulls so I went into the sewers (no one is ever in there) to work on my Skulls, Hellions, The Lost, and Vahz badges. Now I just tore around the sewers killing the mobs I needed. I didn't by pass getting the badge before as there was no badge to get. Just like I didn't by pass getting the Isolator Badge as there was (at the time I made my character) no Isolator badge to get.
HINT: Embaled are easy if you can find a spawn with lots for morts in it just kill the mob then let the morts bring it back.
The solution is easy. Custom missions.
I saw this going on in Perez on Liberty server last night. There was at least half a dozen 35+ heroes running around one-shotting groups of hellions and skulls, not a big deal since they respawn so quickly and are already so numerous.
However, there was also another hero running around the lake, where there also happened to be a lot of low level heroes getting some Hydra action. Well as a 26 defender I sometimes go there and help people out only I noticed some 36 controller running around defeating hydra spawns as soon as they would pop up, really limiting the number in the lake for the other groups.
Again, not a big deal. Then I saw a Kraken in the lake. Something that you just don't see that often (granted they have been appearing more often since the last update), and even when you see them they aren't usually in the lake. So I call out to the groups of level 12s and 14s, "Kraken in the lake". Two small groups came over and waited for more people, looking on in awe.
Then before anyone knew it that controller came over and killed it in about five seconds. All the lowbies were disappointed and said so verbally, and the rest that made it over there asking where he was also left in disappointment.
I sent a tell to the controller asking why he didn't leave it for the low guys to fight and he replyed, "back off, I'm trying to get a badge". So I replyed, "that's something to feel proud about earning 
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His five seconds to further his badge at the expense of all those low levels players who will probably never find themselves again with a chance to fight a Kraken in the lake. 
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I suggest a one time award, considering that all new characters will have the chance to fight these enemies at the correct level, where all current characters recieve a Defeat X badge for any enemy they have outleveled.
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And grant you a badge for all those groups you may did not even touched at all, right? sleek... NOT
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Then before anyone knew it that controller came over and killed it in about five seconds. All the lowbies were disappointed and said so verbally, and the rest that made it over there asking where he was also left in disappointment.
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Now, THAT is lame.
You know, In FFXI there where certain fights where you where not able to participate unless you where of certain level. There did was a complex system around it but i would apreciate it if COH had a simplified version, one that as soon as you even attempt attacking the enemy that has a max lvl you will get exemplared to that level. Automaticaly.
Would had been fun to see that controller suddenly level down to lvl 12 and get his butt kicked by the kreken and all the other angry hydras!
All rare spawn monsters should be like that, they should be monsters to be feared by EVERYONE. Monsters not ever meant to be soloed.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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I think you have an excellent point, however, the risk vs. reward for Exemplar is way out of whack. As a lvl 23 scrapper, I exemplared to a level 19 defender to do a clockwork mission with him and a couple of level 17 friends. In one location, the mission had spawned seven (7!) level 20 bosses, mostly Assembler and Cannon Princes. In one hallway, all standing right next to each other. After a couple of deaths, I finally un-exemplared, cleared the area, and then re-exemplared to try to work off my accumulated debt. By the end of the mission, I still had a few thousand in debt left.
The influence rewards for Exemplar are pretty pitiful, too. At level 23, my SOs are 30,000 infl. each. I received approx. 20-30 influence per defeated mob as an exemplar. This is a pittance, I mean, really. As an Exemplar it's just as dangerous as a natural to throw yourself into a group of yellow mobs, but I'm rewarded by getting 0.5% closer to a single SO.
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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Positron, your option is built on a HUGE assumption that such a character has debt to work off. In my case I rarely have debt. The risk-reward schema for becoming an Exemplar is truly skewed for such characters. Additionally, when I do have some I can easily work it off fast by continuing to patrol or run missions at my own level. The reason I want to Exemplar is to have fun with my friends who do not have high level characters (like mine). In such situations the risk-reward schema is more like "all risk-no reward".
Crey Threat Assessment: Bayne
Virtueverse: Bayne
The Defenders of Paragon