Devs, badges are causing a serious problem
By
Alias_Dread,
Posted on: 2004-09-19 19:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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This is exactly why I made suggestions while Issue 2 was still in the Training Room that badges and kiosk stats should only be awarded if the hero gets XP/Influence for defeating the villain. This would not only help promote reverse sidekicking, but would also give MEANING to the badge. With the system as it is right now, heroes are more or less being rewarded for being bullies as they smash villains to pulp without the slightest chance for the villains to fight back. How heroic is that?
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I must admit that I don't care at all about beeing heroic to get some of the Kill X Badges. Villains are grey cons, yes, they die with a singe hit, yes, and I am happy about it. During my way towards the 40th I killed alot of these already, just like most of us other high level folks. Just that time there been no badges and the system did not log the kills. Most of us would have the Badges if it would've been.
Short sidenode about killing mobs that lowbies would like to attack, I think in all my runs through various hazard zones I never met a single lowbie or group fighting where I was. Well, I must admit I did not go to PP, there will arise some problems I think, but as that zone is infected with all sorts of hero villany anyway, I don't think it will do any real harm >
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This is exactly why I made suggestions while Issue 2 was still in the Training Room that badges and kiosk stats should only be awarded if the hero gets XP/Influence for defeating the villain. This would not only help promote reverse sidekicking, but would also give MEANING to the badge. With the system as it is right now, heroes are more or less being rewarded for being bullies as they smash villains to pulp without the slightest chance for the villains to fight back. How heroic is that?
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I would just like to point out that alot of us would already have completed if not all, the vast majority of the "defeat XXX" badges by the time we hit level 50, or even level 40 months ago.
For people like me, having to RSK to work on hellions/skulls is a pretty unappealing situtation considering I more than likely have defeated enough enemies to acquire this badge already.
Now, if they had been keeping statistics of this and could retroactively reward people... that would be great. However it seems like thats an impossibility.
Anyway, I agree with the other posters in this thread. It will die out sooner or later once people go back and pick up the badges they should have already had. I myself am past the entire first third of the game easily in terms of "defeat XXX" badges and its just been a day. I'm clearing up some old souvenir/story arcs right now, but I'll probably finish the rest of the easier obtained ones this week, then its on to stuff like illusionist decoys and praetorians, which I doubt will severely impede anyones perez park experience.
Or atleast I hope not.
Later
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work
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No chance. I get debt maybe once a week. Make exemplar give a lot more influence or make it give xp. That would fix some stuff maybe, but doubt it.
I think if people just exercise a little common courtesy while getting these badges it won't be so bad.
Take out the whole group of mobs, not just the ones you need. Two reasons for this:
1. You won't cause any accidental deaths with mobs trailing you.
2. A new group will spawn in its place, meaning more bosses for you (or the next guy) and full xp groups for any lower level groups that are hunting. Plus it allows you to confine your activities to a smaller area as you take out respawns.
If you see a group of the zone's appropriate level in the area, please defer to them and either work somewhere else in the zone or come back to the task later. Their options of fighting areas are likely much more limited than yours.
Just my suggestions.
All I know is that Hollows is a pretty big place. I got my troll and outcast badges there for my level 31 blaster and didnt see another hero close to me for. Total time was about 90 minutes to get both badge. This was on the Justice server which is one of the most crowded so I really do not think this will be a problem.
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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Yeah, that's what I did, though I wasn't doing it to get a badge. I had the 'defeat clockworks' badge with about 1/20th of the bar full, and was rSKed to a level 16 friend for an indoor mission against clockworks. Our group of five people faced a well-packed mission and by the end of it I had filled the bar to about 85%. Another mission like that and I'll have the badge.
Then it's on to the Outcasts. 
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And sweeping the Perez Park streets is about your only option for Damned.
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Try the sewer network. You can also get Lost bosses and Embalmed Cadavers there.
The Sewers (no, not the Abandoned Sewers) are a good place to work on the Hellion/Skull/Lost boss and Embalmed Cadaver kill badges if you don't want to wipe out the newbie hunting grounds. Run up to spawn. Look for bosses. Kill them. Run 20 ft down the hall to the next spawn. Look for bosses. Kill them. Lather, rinse...
You can do this as long as you want, and never run into anyone else (except another 20+ working on theirs).
@Mindshadow
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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No Thx.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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When I exemplared down, all the enemies ran from me. Every one, as if they knew I was higher level. It was strange. That was on the 1st day of the patch. Apologies if I'm crazy or it has been fixed.
/checking updates page after instead of before
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
This is going to be a problem with certain regions no matter what you do. Perez for example is just gonna be hell until all the Highbies get their badges out of the way. In Perez you can find Danmed, Bone Daddies, Gears, CoT Mages, Embalmed Cadavers/Abominations, Lost Bosses, and of course Kraken if you're lucky. All of those are pretty common within a certain area of the part too...it's hard to beat that kind of convenience.
While I like the exemplaring idea, people just flat out won't do it unless they're forced too. These badges already take a long time to get. I don't really think players should be forced to exemplar to get them either. They've been through those levels, and most have probably killed enough of each enemy type to have the badges already if they were retroactive. While I agree with the OP's concerns, I don't think there's really anything to be done about it that wouldn't piss off all the higher level players or disrupt the lowbie zones even more. Portal missions could be a very good solution, but are only available to 40+'s anyway. I think we'll just have to ride it out and try to be as nice to the lowbie fauna as possible.
~Virtue Server~
Naomi Lynx - lvl 50 Claws/Super Reflexes Scrapper
-Paradox - lvl 21 Empathy/Dark Defender
Callous Jane - lvl 10 Ice/Energy Blaster
Wander Wraith - lvl 12 Dark/Dark Defender
this willwork itself out over time.
consider this, you only need to hit PP for skull bosses. hellion bosses, Lost bosses and Vahzilik Embalmed can all be found in the sewers (which we know are never used by low players).
After that, you can hit the hollows for Outcast bosses (again another area that the far side so you won't be interfereing with low levels), you can hit the tunnels for Troll Bosses (an area that will be void of low levels, for the most part).
Now you head to Faultline for CoT mages and Clock gears (note you can get new clock mission that spawn alot fo gears to accomplish this too), again faultline will have hardly anyone in it.
Unfortunatly, there are no places for lot's of Warrior or family bosses, or Tsoo sorcs, so you'll end up using SC, IP and TI for them, these will be alot longer to do, and be your most grueling.
Prisoners can be found in bricks, and really they need to be cleaned up anyways.
FF is where you could find some vampyrs for one of the 5ths, even soem warwolfs for the other.
you can hit creys folly for the Crey Paragon protectors and Freak bosses, as well as DE emmitors.
the rest will either have to be via portals from PI or missions.
in looking at this, you'll be in underused hazard zones for the most part and not interfering that much with low levels.
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When I exemplared down, all the enemies ran from me. Every one, as if they knew I was higher level. It was strange.
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Glad to know it wasn't just me.
As of the 19th, it had not been fixed. Happened to me too. Made for a hysterical mission, running around like crazy.
I bug reported it.
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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Dear Superhero,
Exemplar. It even helps others!
Thanks,
Bureau of Common Sense
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They really should make it so that you only get credit for a kill only if you get XP, otherwise, yeah the low level zones will have these level 50s killing all the greys just for a name on the kiosk. I feel bad for the lowbies....and what's the point of those kiosks?
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Agreed. If you get zero XP for it, you shouldn't get credit on the listings for it.
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This isn't confined to Badges though. I have seen lvl 50s slaughtering grey cons to improve their position on the Kiosk list. This problem will not go away in a week or two.
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Is there anyone but the people trying to get on the kiosk list that ever actually looks at the kiosk list?
Noone else cares.
Personally I think the Kiosk lists should be abolished. Heroes do not compete for "who killed the most millions of grey mobs" awards. They should be out there stopping crime at their own level and leaving the streets to the younger heroes.
The Kiosk list goes directly against the spirit of the game.
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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All right. I'll see your sarcasm and raise you a full measure of blunt and to the point.
Why would I exemplar to accomplish this task? I can kill the lowbie enemies at an enormous rate, getting nothing for it but a badge. Or, I can level down, kill them at a tiny fraction of that rate, take a very serious risk of getting a full measure of high level XP debt ...
... and still get nothing for it but a badge.
Uh ... yeah! Sign me up for a double handful of that! Woohoo! Can't WAIT to do it!
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With the system as it is right now, heroes are more or less being rewarded for being bullies as they smash villains to pulp without the slightest chance for the villains to fight back. How heroic is that?
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His name is Superman, that's what he does. And when I read about it, I laugh at the stupid criminal for trying that in Metropolis.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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This isn't confined to Badges though. I have seen lvl 50s slaughtering grey cons to improve their position on the Kiosk list. This problem will not go away in a week or two.
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Is there anyone but the people trying to get on the kiosk list that ever actually looks at the kiosk list?
Noone else cares.
Personally I think the Kiosk lists should be abolished. Heroes do not compete for "who killed the most millions of grey mobs" awards. They should be out there stopping crime at their own level and leaving the streets to the younger heroes.
The Kiosk list goes directly against the spirit of the game.
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I was top of the Freakshow nemesis list by accident . I did my badge one evening and when a friend logged on in the morning I helped them do it. Since I was AoEing (tripmine or ball lightning) I was wiping 12 minions for every 1 or 2 bosses. I didn't know about this until another SG member pointed it out later that day.
Of course now I have the "Tank Buster" badge, I'll rapidly fall off the bottom of the kiosk list.
I agree that the only mobs that should count for the kiosks must be those that give xp and I shouldn't have been on that list at all.
I'm really starting to dislike the whole badge thing. I love the new plaques, and the idea of history and exploration badges, but the behavior is starting to drive me nuts.
The non-stop begging for a teleport to the top of City Hall/Atlas' Globe is bad enough. Then on Saturday I was in AP with my Defender helping lower level heroes take on a pack of Rularuu and their portal, just healing and buffing because at 8th level the pittance of xp 3rd level Rularuu give isn't worth it. In swoops a 30-something level who wipes out the invaders in nothing flat. How can this possibly be worth your time I asked her? I'm finding out if there's a badge, she replied.
I guess it's not badges that annoy me; it's just people.
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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If you actually expect players to do something that would make getting the reward MORE difficult you will be dissappointed. Players will take the path of least resistance 9 times out of 10. If it is your intent that players use RSK to obtain these rewards then I suggest you implement something that only increments the badge counters only when the enemy being defeated rewards the player with xp or influence to prevent high level heroes from 'bottom feeding' just to get their badges.
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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Your a Dev, you should know better.
People, much like water, follow the path of LEAST resisitince. (9 times out of 10 i'd say)
What's easier, doing what you said, or, using your near godly powers to get what you want faster and with less risk?
But i agree, this issues won't be an issure for long. People will get there badges and move on.
KingSnake.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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But what if he doesn't have debt to work off? Not everyone has a running tally of debt.
WARNING: PET PEEVE ALERT
Electricity follows the path of least resistance. Water flows downhill unless its surface tension is strong enough to resist the pull of gravity.
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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.
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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.
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But that would require people to use logic and to be outgoing and willing to actually help other people out rather than obsessing with their own gains exclusively...
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Logic shows in a situation like this it is indeed best to just run to a low lvl zone and quickly get yer xkill badges. I like to help others too but I really dont see a reason to do this slowly, it would take just much much too long as opposed to 30 mins of killing in a low lvl zone. They should really make the kill count only when you get xp from those mobs.