Jaeph

Thanks for the reply, very informative. I may have to make a fantasy-themed character so I can keep my questing motif. :-)

I'm a recently returned player. I have a lvl 37 spines/regen which was a rather well-regarded combo at the time. However, I really don't like the spines set - it's potent, but very slow.

What's a quick set that works well with regen? I'm thinking either something with lots of control (to give regen more space to do its thing) or an energy-intensive set.

Note this isn't about farming at lvl 50, nor about PvP. I just want to run around in game following the quest lines. I know that pretty much anything can work, I just want to grab a good combo.

-Jeff

I have a 50 ss/nrgy brute, and a 45 DM/SR scrapper that's nearing completion. Both are heavily defense-based, and I want to try something different. I also have a 37 spines/regen scrapper that amuses me once in a while, but I'm looking for *tough*.

Any suggestions for a good, tough scrapper or brute (I'm leaning towards scrapper, but maybe there's a brute combo that works better?) I'm looking at /inv and /wp, and I see plenty of possibilities, but haven't sealed the deal yet and thought I'd take a survey. :-)

-Jeff

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Here is an example of a soft-capped /ea brute. Now, you wouldn't USE this kind of a build (at least I wouldn't) because it's light on the offense, but it is clearly POSSIBLE,..

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Just so everyone knows, this build uses:

hover, combat jumping, manuevers, tough, and weave on top of EA's native defenses to have 40+% defenses vs most things. This means that you have no more PP picks - no stamina for you!

Ignoring the "light on offense" part, this build is unplayable. You would have to live on blues.

Oh, and you can play that game with SR as well (and I assume ninja). Slap maneuvers, hover, combat jumping, and weave on top of SR and you get 45.7% defenses to everything, no holes, no execuses.

-Jeff

Now if you could just explain the side missions. I did a mayhem today, killed a boss, got a key, went inside the waypoint, captured the civie, and walked out. Now wet? The civie followed me all over, but I had no idea what to do to finish the side mission, and nothing in the briefing said what to do.

Anybody have a clue about this?

-jeff

Ok, I didn't mean exploit as in cheating. Whatever you want to call things like herding and so on which just made a mockery of the system (but were perfectly legal), that's what I'm talking about.

-jeff

In my years of playing mmorpgs, I've learned that "Tramples on concepts" is code for "ruined my exploit". People who really are into the roleplaying side are not that terribly concerned with the rules changes and can roll with the punches.

Also, usually things that are overpowered in PvP are also overpowered in PvE; it's just that the AI is too dumb.

-Jeff

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Will Brutes' Fury not building properly in PVP get fixed?

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I've not figured out a way to get it working yet. It's possible I *can't* get it to work as described, in which case, we'll have to have a pow wow around here (complete with Tee Pee's and Peace Pipes, hopefully) to figure out what to do.

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Instead of fixing the rate of fury gain, why not make the bar "smaller"? It looks the same on the screen, but the distance from empty to full is less.

-jeff

For the record I PvP a couple hours a week. My MM is only 30, so I haven't had much experience with him, but of the 3 times I brought him into PvP (not running missions), twice I got 6k bounty in under an hour. Both times were part of reasonably sized zergs.

It's fascinating to me when I read complaints about how helpless MMs are w/o their pets. I have none of my personal attacks, but with traps, teleport, and phase shift I'm hardly helpless.

If I ever max out my MM, I think i'm going trick arrow next - I see a lot of possibility in that set.

-Jeff

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Im not sure if that is a fair trade off as seeing that MMs have low hp. It makes more sense to have the MM an inherit -TP much like the PVE bosses.

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Should MMs be allowed to send their pets far ahead while they stay behind? That's the trade off. You as an MM can stand in the middle of the zerg and send your pets into the middle of hero's line, and their only recourse is to tab through all the players to find your or to kill the pets.

I really don't understand all the fuss - the big problem with MMs wasn't TP-Foe - if one person TPs you, you can get away (barring traps). The big problem was that one person could run right up to you and kill you with very little effort. Now if they try that they'll be in for a surprise.

-Jeff

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MMs safety comes from hiding behind pets,..

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For starters. The there's your secondary and your power pools powers. The MM secondaries all have some form of control in them. MMs are the best soloing AT out there in PvE, as they combine god-like safety with very nice firepower.

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My level 23 Dom can solo with only slightly less safety then my MM, and goes at about the same speed due to not having to set up at the start of a mission.

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I do a lot of PvP missions, as those are the best xp bang for your time bucks. Scrappers and brutes are about kneck-to-kneck the fastest soloers, but they can have problems with different bosses, depending on their build. MMs, otoh, are setup-time slower, and can deal with bosses in pretty much absolute safety. Even if it's a very tough boss, you can kill and run, come back, and take care of it. Only controllers match that safety, but they lack the firepower.

-Jeff

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2. TP Foe brings the MM and his pets, and the specific target (i.e. the MM, is replaced with a random pet)



I disagree with this, as this negates the usefulness of TP Foe.

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A MMs pets ARE his powers. If you use tp foe on a tank or blaster, do their powers get left behind? A MM's powers should not be left behind by using tp foe on him.



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Could not have said it better myself. With or without bodyguard, this is a major issue that needs to be addressed.

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I'm levelling a mastermind now (merc/traps, lvl 30) and I absolutely disagree with this. Masterminds are the easiest, safest class to level, and it's because they can hide behind their pets. That split of powers is a major source of strength for them, so I have no problem with it also being a weakness.

It's a trade-off that I'm fine with.

-jeff

Hey all, I highly recommend that anybody interested in this topic check out this book. I won't confirm the "science", but the techniques and the basic message that "yes, you too can draw, and well" are pretty solidly laid out. Note that being able to draw and being an artist are not the same thing. You may be able to reproduce a picture of something recognizable, or even make something up, but that's only a part of making art.

Anyways, I agree with what cuppa-jo said; pretty much any of us can draw, it's just not necessarily a priority, and drawing is a skill that requires a lot of work.

-Jeff

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But "almost completely" is hyperbole to the extreme.

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Meant to be hyperbole, for effect. People who talk in absolutes are either frustrated or stupid.

My point illustrated is this: PlayerX makes a Dominator. PlayerW makes a Blaster. Both players can be very successful in PvE. When entered into PvP however, PlayerW will dominate PlayerX in many ways and in many circumstances, teamed or otherwise. You could even switch the person playing each toon and the result would be the same.

Even within the same AT: PlayerQ and PlayerK choose to play blasters. One chooses Ice the other chooses AR. You have your head in the sand if you believe the AR will be a better PvP blaster than the Ice, all other things being equal.

I'm not saying people can't make "gimp" things work. I'm pointing out that ones choice of AT and/or Powerset when one creates a character plays a large role in determining degrees of success in PvP.

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Look, I grant there are PvP builds, and they make a significant difference. How "large"? That's difficult to measure.

However, your examples are pretty nuts. A dominator is far more valuable to a villain group than a blaster is to a hero group. The dominators control powers affect the course of the battle; the blaster is just a bag'o'damage. Granted that I like playing the bag'o'damage as much as the next guy, but the team with control beats the team with damage every game.

As for ice vs AR, I'm actually unconvinced about that. In one on one, I grant that, but frankly I'm seeing too many tightly-packed groups go unpunished because nobody brings AE attacks to the big dance. It would be interesting to see that.

Also, we're talking about PvP in the open-field environs of sirens, etc. Base defenses bring a different picture, one where cones and AEs are very valuable. Maybe all that's needed is a change of venue.

-Jeff

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The problem is it still has characters vs other characters and ever since I started D&D way back in 1980, I have never seen any good come from this. I gave PvP a try in these games anyway, since I was hoping it might have more of a point and less of the attitude that some of the people I played with way back then had, but it's actually worse since there is no GM to intervene.

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I understand that competition may not be your cup of tea, and I respect that. Or, you may only like your competition in controlled circumestances. However, I can say that unlike you I have seen buckets of good come from it, and enjoyed it.

On a tangent, why do so many here worry about the attitudes of the competition? Who cares what a bunch of pixels say? There are numerous tools in the game to ignore people - if you find they are getting under your skin, tune them out and just play in peace.

There's an old trick to public speaking about imagining your audience in their underwear. A related one in-game is to imagine your opposition as a bunch of children. It's really hard to get annoyed because children are teasing you.

-Jeff

Buffy, that was a great list. Well done.

Fugitive said:
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As it currently stands, your ability to be successful in PvP depends almost completely on your initial choice at the character creation screen.

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False. Your choices effect things, true. You can even make really bad choices for pvp (e.g. no travel power). But "almost completely" is hyperbole to the extreme. Get your character into a group and you can do fine.

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You may be an extremely skilled PvE gamer who knows the ins and outs of your AT and many others, yet sadly this skill falls by the wayside all too often.

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Which is due to the fact that PvE and PvP are very, very different skills. PvE is long-distance walking; you're going to make it, it's just a matter of when. PvP is bumper cars. You're going to hurt people, they're going to hurt you, and it's hard to get any real control when there are so many people.

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You will be TP Foe'd into drones

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Yes, and nothing will go wrong. You will simply have to travel back, no worse for wear. Note that they can't TP you into drones if you stay back from the base.

-Jeff

Pantsless? That's easy...

topazos 1
toapzos 2

...if you're orange. :-)

-Jeff

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The degree of tunnel vision it takes to see the game as nothing but stats is frightening.

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...and the degree of tunnel vision it takes to miss the "Aside from concept," phrase in the original subject is baffling.


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...NO!...the degree of tunnel vision it takes to miss that there is a world of detail and nuance to gameplay that has nothing to do with dps or concept is ... fri...er....baff....er...something!

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Oh cut the nonsense already. Of course there is more than DPS. No need to act all deep and worldly-wise.

The OP's question is a fair one, and he never said it was the only way to look at things, and even took pains to indicate it wasn't.

Why do some of you people have to pose? It's a good question, and the OP (and myself, and I'm sure others) learned something in the process.

Good stuff.

_Jeff

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The degree of tunnel vision it takes to see the game as nothing but stats is frightening.

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...and the degree of tunnel vision it takes to miss the "Aside from concept," phrase in the original subject is baffling.

To the OP - thank you for this thread; you asked a great question and got answers that really helped me understand the individual strengths of super-strength.

To those of you who have concept builds: what's wrong with people discussing math? Nobody said it was the be-all, end-all; nobody said concept wasn't important. The entire premise of the thread is "take away concept, now, with the math..."

Why is that so threatening?

-Jeff

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If you are using a ranged attack, it is obviously not considered jousting, which is using a melee attack that lands after you are far outside of their melee range, by combining it with a travel power.

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Agreed. I think many of you are confusing things; jousting is something that takes advantage of lag to create an unintended ( by the devs) situation. There's nothing about this use of focus that resembles jousting other than the fact that you happen to be moving.

I do what the poster describes quite a bit with my corrupter. There are times I find myself struggling to get to that precise range (hurricane debuffs range) where I can attack but not be in the hurricane; rather than bother I just queue up my debuff, launch myself over the hurricane, and dust myself off at the other end.

-Jeff

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I guess I'm feeling masochistic today.

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Well if you care to up that to suicidal, jump into the scummy waters of PvP General. It's us griefers vs them carebears in an epic battle of indifference vs indignation.

Btw, on topic - I re-signed up because of CoV and the prospect of PvP. I am playing right now mostly due to the Siren's Call beta event.

If you ever do things again, I strongly, strongly advise more events like that one to show-off new features. I know from your standpoint those are more stress tests and the like, but at least from where I'm sitting, that was a fantastic marketting tool even through all the lag.

-Jeff

Interesting. I just started a stalker, and I'm using this to level my toon while getting maximum infamy. I just run around the zone killing lieutenants (I'm only 5, cut me some slack<g&gt, and then run away from the minions.

The exp:inf ratio is so much better for non-minions.

Inside missions, I do the minimum amount I need to finish the job. That may still be kill-all, but when it's not I just clean the room or whatever.

I find all of this helps me adopt a different mindset with this toon, which I think will be important later.

-Jeff

As an SR and up-and-coming ice tanker, the biggest problem I've seen is streaks. As we fight above our levels, the odds of a streak really climb a lot. When it happens to a +res character, they just need more healing. But when it happens to a +def character, they die. Since larger groups tend to fight higher level mobs, these sets (SR, ICE) tend to die more.

What I would suggest is something similar to blaster's defiance, but for defense: as SR and ICE health falls below 40% (or whatever), they gain increasing amounts of defense. It need not be as extreme as the blaster damage increase, but it would be nice to see SR & ICE hanging on by the skin of their teeth rather than dying.

-Jeff

Cuppajo,

With all due respect just because someone went through the trouble of making up some categories doesn't make them right. In fact, the names of the categories are a dead giveaway that there was a strong bias on the part of the person who wrote them up.

Just one example - what about competitors? There are people who like competion, whether individual or team. In the model you reference that would be a "killer/socializer" which I think is a rather strange way of putting it.

Personally, I look at it this way:

Explorers, competitors, puzzle-solvers, and socializers. The latter isn't the best word for it - maybe 'fraternize".

-Jeff

I don't have the time to waste to find someone and get them to play my way. I want the mobs as fast as I can; if I wanted to relive my level X glory days I'd make a new character.

-Jeff