fight any good vampires lately buffy?
sorry just had to say that 
another point you should make is -
you will be assassin striked and killed instanstly if you are not a tank, at any time, and very often, especially if you stand still and look at the scenery. all youll see is "assassin strike" lots of damage, then "you are dead, go to hospital" window.
this will happen alot if you dont have tactics, repulsion powers, or move around alot. even moving around doenst help that much, like when you are fighting someone one on one, and you think, "hey, im winning...", smack....assassin strike..you are dead....so just like buffy said, pvp is not fair.
i just made a post myself, cuz i have been trying pvp out again lately, here is the post
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...part=1#4984923
so summ it up, i asked whether or not you needed to make changes to your build to survive at pvp, and got some good feedback. i think the answer to that question myself is yes.
you do need to make changes,
such as you cant rely on fly as a travel power, there are lots of powers with -fly on them, youll need a toggle dropping power like brawl, teleport foe is great for catching your opponent, and you will need a good single target high damage power, slotted with three acc, three dam. three acc, cuz you will be debuffed alot.
i do have to disagree with you about not communicating with the opponent. some people like to roleplay.
but do not bring your personal fight details into broadcast, like
"so and so is a noob
you suck
yaaaa come on, come and get it, blah blah blah"
please do not bring your little personal dramas into broadcast.
its really annoying.
I do believe you also forgot... You will be TP Foe'd into drones ... Yes people do it.. it's cheap but it happens. So basically pay attention to your location and make sure you are not in TP range of a hosp or base. 
More Harsh Reality
As it currently stands, your ability to be successful in PvP depends almost completely on your initial choice at the character creation screen. You may be an extremely skilled PvE gamer who knows the ins and outs of your AT and many others, yet sadly this skill falls by the wayside all too often. At times you will be apoplectically angry and curse the game for not allowing your specific AT/Powerset to be successful while seeing another completely dominating the zone. Take a time out and get a glass of chocolate milk. If you take anything from this section let it be: Your ability to be successful in PvP rests very highly upon what AT/Powersets you chose at the character creation screen, not personal skill.
I like the OP's list, how true, how true.
Although, I gotta disagree slightly with one thing:
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Never say anything to the opponents, ever.
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I find that friendly chatter after a good fight is enjoyable so long as your opponent isn't one of those Ipwnedjoomom types. 'GG' is always appropriate after a good fight, so as to leave no hard feelings.
That is covered under "The most important thing to expect in PVP is that there will be many times you will be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself."
That, too, is covered under "The most important thing to expect in PVP is that there will be many times you will be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself."
[ QUOTE ]
I like the OP's list, how true, how true.
Although, I gotta disagree slightly with one thing:
[ QUOTE ]
Never say anything to the opponents, ever.
[/ QUOTE ]
I find that friendly chatter after a good fight is enjoyable so long as your opponent isn't one of those Ipwnedjoomom types. 'GG' is always appropriate after a good fight, so as to leave no hard feelings.
[/ QUOTE ]
I engage in friendly chatter, but, it is so tempting to have that fit of rage and engage in unfriendly chat. For some, it is best to just shut up entirely 
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More Harsh Reality
As it currently stands, your ability to be successful in PvP depends almost completely on your initial choice at the character creation screen. You may be an extremely skilled PvE gamer who knows the ins and outs of your AT and many others, yet sadly this skill falls by the wayside all too often. At times you will be apoplectically angry and curse the game for not allowing your specific AT/Powerset to be successful while seeing another completely dominating the zone. Take a time out and get a glass of chocolate milk. If you take anything from this section let it be: Your ability to be successful in PvP rests very highly upon what AT/Powersets you chose at the character creation screen, not personal skill.
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I did believe this and do believe it still. Except, as I PVP more and more with my PVE power sets (I am a PVP gimp with my Controllers, yet love playing them the most), I have learned to compensate. Given enough time, you will amaze yourself at your ability to take your gimpy PVE power choices and survive in PVP. It is just WAY more difficult
Absolutely true.
It only took about 20 minutes in Siren's for my blaster to figure out all of those points.
-AG
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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That, too, is covered under "The most important thing to expect in PVP is that there will be many times you will be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself."
[/ QUOTE ]
no, see i dont think you can simplify it that way.
thats why i added the post about assassin strike.
there are actually many ways that "you will be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself"
maybe we can make a list
here are some -
1) assassin strike, as i mentioned, why i put it first, is this is the most suprising and annoying one, you could be fighting an opponent, or surveying the battle field from a distance, trying to determine the right moment to strike, or tactic to use, you could be just about to kill someone, or you could be lured to attack what would seem to be an easy target, or you could be just adjusting your costume and fixing your hair, and suddenly.....dead. no retalition, nothing. just dead.
2)you can be chain held, or immobilized and be able to do nothing as you watch your health dwindle away.
3)you could be teleported to a trap, and there are many types, and you die.
4)you could have so many status effects and debuffs on you that you cant move, you cant hit, and your doing no damage, that youve been debuffed so bad that even if were you try to pick your nose, you would miss. so no matter what you do a hospital trip is soon coming. this one is the most frustrating one, cuz you are giving it your all, your blasting away with everything you got, and your doing nothing. the opponents health is barly less than full, and your attacks are doing very small amounts of damage.
well, ill leave to it everyone else to list some more ways that
"you will be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself" cuz im sure there are more
You made me smile, much smiling
Why? Because 'been there, done that'
Heh...the tone of the original post reminds me of Chris Rock's "PSA" on how not to get beat up by the police.
But still I fear and still I dare not laugh at the madman!
One man's "meh" is another man's "zomg". - Leatherneck
Procrastination meter coming soon.
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Heh...the tone of the original post reminds me of Chris Rock's "PSA" on how not to get beat up by the police.
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I saw that today. Hilarious.
Actually, the harsh reality is that you went into PvP unprepared.
PvP is not 1v1, it's GvG(Group Vs Group, or in this game, Team Vs Team). It's SG vs SG, not 1v1. The name of the game is Zerg vs Zerg.
With that being said, many of the points brought up are countered by simply having a few teammates with you or the correct Inspirations at hand. During fights, you may run out of Inspirations, but it does not mean that you cannot run back and purchase more. If you would like to counter this argument with, "But we shouldn't have to", then I will counter with, "You shouldn't have to, but if you want to survive, that's what you have to do, whether you like it or not".
Build plays a large role in your productivity in PvP, however it does not mean that every person with the same build will perform equally well. When you are creating your character and building your character, your first thought is not for PvP unless it is a second or fifth. With that being said, if you want to PvP, then you should build your character to PvP. Not all builds excel equally in the game of PvP, and THAT is what should be expected. That is about as smart as making a character who surpasses all others in single target damage and thinking he/she will be a great AoE'r as well. There are many things you have to take into consideration, many of which have been complained about already.
One post was definitely against Stalkers, and while I agree their burst DPS is amazing, it does not mean that they cannot be nullified. Tankers can defeat Stalkers in 2-4 hits, depending upon buffs. A Blaster can obliterate a Stalker as well without ever being harmed. What I suggest is that you acquire the Assault and Tactics powers from the Leadership pool. What this will do is make you resistant to Placate's effect as well as allow you to see a Stalker while he is in Hide. If the Stalker has chosen to spend time with the Concealment tree, then he will have Stealth and in order to counteract that, you'd need buffs from your teammates or others with Tactics stacked. For every buff to "Stealth" the Stalker can get, you can counter. You can get goggles+Tactics to nearly nullify a Stalker's approach. This will not guarantee that you will never be attacked by one from stealth, but it will greatly diminish the amount of times you encounter them stealthed, or at least non-visible. Oh, and another thing... If you see a Stalker who is winding up for an AS, just use Brawl or some quick attack on him to interrupt his attack and reveal him. AS is interruptable, however with the game's current mechanics, if you try to run away, you will still be hit by the attack, so it is best to just attack the Stalker and then retreat to safe grounds.
You cannot go into PvP hoping to perform well if your twitch factor is sub-par. This game's PvP is far from slow and can be very involving when you get into it. There are "preferred" builds and there are "not so preferred" builds out there. This has nothing to do with your preference, but their performance. You cannot change these things unless you learn to provide and create tactics with what you have. Nobody was born in this world or created in this game equally, so expecting equal treatment is, truthfully, uncalled for.
This post was not created to bash any of you, but to further open your eyes to what PvP is about in this game. It's sad to see that many of the games in the past and up to now have been so centered around PvE, because it derives one of the most challenging aspects of the game - PvP.
You may disagree and call PvP not a challenge, but just plain stupid, and I would have to retort and say that it is not something you prefer and probably are not great at it, thus you shun it due to your inexperience. I do not know any of you and will never get to know any of you outside of this forum or game, so if that is your response to PvP, please know that mine will be as I have said.
I come from Ultima Online, Asheron's Call(Darktide), Dark Age of Camelot, and Shadow Bane MMORPG wise. Every other game's implementation of PvP has been very poor and it is easy to see why these games that I have listed suffered, and it is because people enjoy fighting pre-programmed monsters that have scripted "unique ideas and tactics" that sometimes may catch you off guard. I enjoy fighting something that can react to what I am doing at all times and make me do something different every encounter, rather than the same thing over and over. This is just my perspective on games these days and how PvP can help you as a player. I think by playing in PvP you can get a better feel for your character's limits against something that has a brain that isn't written with 0's and 1's.
Either way, I wish you would all enjoy PvP, but I know many of you will not. PvP is a very heavy change and requires amazing alteration of your playstyle in most games. If you would not like to make that change, then I wish the best to you.
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More Harsh Reality
As it currently stands, your ability to be successful in PvP depends almost completely on your initial choice at the character creation screen. You may be an extremely skilled PvE gamer who knows the ins and outs of your AT and many others, yet sadly this skill falls by the wayside all too often. At times you will be apoplectically angry and curse the game for not allowing your specific AT/Powerset to be successful while seeing another completely dominating the zone. Take a time out and get a glass of chocolate milk. If you take anything from this section let it be: Your ability to be successful in PvP rests very highly upon what AT/Powersets you chose at the character creation screen, not personal skill.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did believe this and do believe it still. Except, as I PVP more and more with my PVE power sets (I am a PVP gimp with my Controllers, yet love playing them the most), I have learned to compensate. Given enough time, you will amaze yourself at your ability to take your gimpy PVE power choices and survive in PVP. It is just WAY more difficult
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Controllers are not gimpy. They are powerful, even with just PvE builds they are the second biggest threat in PvP. The largest threat being blappers.
You want to see gimpy? Try using a Dom or an AR/Traps Corruptor... or a MM.
Btw... Anyone else think that "this is a team vs team PvP kind of game" is just dev speak for: "We don't have the time, nor the resources to make things even for 1vs1, so just throw more people at a hero if you're having trouble"
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
hmmm....tekkaman, i dont know how to read your post. it almost sounds condescending.
that us poor complaining unprepared pve players have not reached your pvp greatness yet, and thus yet are not enlightened enough to grasp the challenge of pvp.
the main reason i think the OP made this post was to give some insight and feedback as to what pvp is really like in this game, and to prepare players for some of the bad realities of pvp. thats all. i dont think its about some of the things you said.
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PvP is not 1v1, it's GvG(Group Vs Group, or in this game, Team Vs Team). It's SG vs SG, not 1v1. The name of the game is Zerg vs Zerg.
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i dont think pvp should be just for groups. you can be a lone player, and attack other single players. its more dangerous going into a pvp zone by yourself, but you dont have to be in a group. and some of us our solo players.
you mentioned that being in a group solves alot of the situations and things mentioned in this post, but, so far from what ive seen, group tactics are not something you can rely upon much on the battlefield, its way to chaotic, and you cant always be in range of the powers that can help you.
thats why its important to be as self suffuicent as possible.
and its too bad that pvp in this game is so inspiration dependent. you say that its part of the game, and that its the players responsibility to always have full tray of insp ready, and i agree, you have to. but again, you cant always rely on having those insp, and i think pvp would be much better if we didnt have inspirations, if instead there was some other way to counter being mezzed, like every arch has some counter power in their powerset they can use once in awhile.
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One post was definitely against Stalkers, and while I agree their burst DPS is amazing, it does not mean that they cannot be nullified.
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no, none of the posts were against stalkers, they were about simply preparing players for the fact that they will and can be assassinated at any time. thats all. its frustrating dying without being able to retaliate, but it happens. there was nothing negative said about stalkers.
all in all, i think its good that posts like these are made for new players or people who are trying out pvp in this game, since there are alot of things to learn and it can be very frustrating since the mechanics of pve and pvp are totally different. we go into pve missions feeling like a hero, we know we will succeed with all our superpowers, but in pvp, we can end up powerless and dying very often.
and of course there is just the simple fact there are alot bad people out there that will make pvp miserable, if you let them.....
madmage, please do not get me wrong... I understand that players are always on different levels and of course have different play styles and preferences. Perhaps the words I used to describe things were a bit extreme, however I feel as though my main points did come across fairly well. T
he reason I stated the games I had played was to let you know that I'm not just trying to make up experience and logic and place them in this game's PvP. It was more to show that I have experienced much of the MMORPG PvP to be had. Sorry that came across wrong.
It is true that you cannot always count on a team, however it is definitely beneficial to have one that works well with you or that you have prior experience with.
As a matter of fact, I prefer to be a solo, duo, trio, or quad group kind of person. I dislike large groups mostly because I feel as though the ability to identify skill is easier in small scale PvP rather than zerg vs zerg. I also agree that Inspirations are sort of stupid for PvP(if that's what you were getting at). While I disagree with some of the needs/requirements of the PvP in this game, in order to operate at "maximum" performance, Inspirations are the way to go.
I believe that the problem with limiting ones self to no Inspirations or rare usage of them is, well, the problem. I'm not saying that you specifically do this madmage, but in general, those who work with honor/honour have to put themselves at a level of play that the majority of other players will not elevate to, and hence the reason why many people become frustrated. There have been many times in my gaming past where, for instance, I had just become victorious in a grueling fight, only to see a stealther(Dark Age of Camelot) walk up to me and /clap & /bow to me instead of assassinating me. Those rare events of respect are what make PvP the rewarding experience that it can be. Other instances can be of, for instance, a two vs two fight and opposing teams of both sides come to wait to see who the victor is and congratulate them on a fight well fought(more specifically a close fight). That is what I look for in the world of PvP, but I have yet to find anything that comes near respect in this game. Maybe it's that I haven't PvP'd enough in this game to recognize skill, but when I do, I'll be sure to let those skilled people know that someone appreciates it.
As for the anti-stalker comment of mine, I was saying that it was against stalkers for the fact that Stalkers are the only class that you have to worry about when it comes to stealthed assassination(i.e. AS).
Buffy, that was a great list. Well done.
Fugitive said:
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As it currently stands, your ability to be successful in PvP depends almost completely on your initial choice at the character creation screen.
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False. Your choices effect things, true. You can even make really bad choices for pvp (e.g. no travel power). But "almost completely" is hyperbole to the extreme. Get your character into a group and you can do fine.
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You may be an extremely skilled PvE gamer who knows the ins and outs of your AT and many others, yet sadly this skill falls by the wayside all too often.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is due to the fact that PvE and PvP are very, very different skills. PvE is long-distance walking; you're going to make it, it's just a matter of when. PvP is bumper cars. You're going to hurt people, they're going to hurt you, and it's hard to get any real control when there are so many people.
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You will be TP Foe'd into drones
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Yes, and nothing will go wrong. You will simply have to travel back, no worse for wear. Note that they can't TP you into drones if you stay back from the base.
-Jeff
The only thing I disagree with is the part about not saying anything to the enemy - ever bit. I have some wonderful conversations about anything under the sun with my opponent(s) when I'm on my Brute or Scrapper. 
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That, too, is covered under "The most important thing to expect in PVP is that there will be many times you will be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself."
[/ QUOTE ]
no, see i dont think you can simplify it that way.
thats why i added the post about assassin strike.
there are actually many ways that "you will be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself"
maybe we can make a list
here are some -
1) assassin strike, as i mentioned, why i put it first, is this is the most suprising and annoying one, you could be fighting an opponent, or surveying the battle field from a distance, trying to determine the right moment to strike, or tactic to use, you could be just about to kill someone, or you could be lured to attack what would seem to be an easy target, or you could be just adjusting your costume and fixing your hair, and suddenly.....dead. no retalition, nothing. just dead.
2)you can be chain held, or immobilized and be able to do nothing as you watch your health dwindle away.
3)you could be teleported to a trap, and there are many types, and you die.
4)you could have so many status effects and debuffs on you that you cant move, you cant hit, and your doing no damage, that youve been debuffed so bad that even if were you try to pick your nose, you would miss. so no matter what you do a hospital trip is soon coming. this one is the most frustrating one, cuz you are giving it your all, your blasting away with everything you got, and your doing nothing. the opponents health is barly less than full, and your attacks are doing very small amounts of damage.
well, ill leave to it everyone else to list some more ways that
"you will be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself" cuz im sure there are more
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just like to add that list if you have less then say 1050 hps(in warburg)you can be killed by a stalker wielding:
assault with BU+TF+ET=dead squishy in about 2 seconds after you see your enemy.
In other words: PVP sucks, avoid it like the plague, it's not worth the time and debt (and there will be debt as all of those unfair conditions will often be planned to happen to your detriment amongst NPCs).
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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In other words: PVP sucks, avoid it like the plague, it's not worth the time and debt (and there will be debt as all of those unfair conditions will often be planned to happen to your detriment amongst NPCs).
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Huh?!?! Where did this come from?!?!.....oh, retired tank, no wonder....
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The only thing I disagree with is the part about not saying anything to the enemy - ever bit. I have some wonderful conversations about anything under the sun with my opponent(s) when I'm on my Brute or Scrapper.
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Oh, I do politely talk to Villains after they have killed me, or if they are standing and talking to another hero. Just refrain from saying something out of emotional frustration or anger.
Now, last night, I did make a smartars comment to a Stalker that was phased and standing in the middle of my team. Somebody on the team said in local chat, "ah, come on, take a chance". I said "Stalkers don't take risks". He said, "I take risks, I just don't commit suicide". Later, he would super jump in and hit me with an attack that knocked me down. He did it over and over. Some people would have been annoyed. He later came back phased and I said "I liked being dive bombed ". And, really I did. But, I am crazy, sometimes.
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In other words: PVP sucks, avoid it like the plague, it's not worth the time and debt (and there will be debt as all of those unfair conditions will often be planned to happen to your detriment amongst NPCs).
[/ QUOTE ]
I am at max debt, yet, still having a blast. I am addicted to playing PVP at the moment. Which is a good thing since I am tired of PVE
My favorite thing to do is get my Ice/Rad Controller when the villains have the heroes outnumbered and pushed back to the base. I pop 6 defense inspirations, 6 accuracy inspirations and run in and hit them with everything I got while they whiff, whiff and curse My Ice/Rad is the master of slowing people to a crawl and infecting them with Radiation Infection and Enervating Field. Yes, I always finally die when the inspirations wear off, but man it is a blast to do that
The Harsh Reality of PVP
Are you thinking about taking your favorite hero or villain and enter a Player versus Player (PVP) zone to see what it is like? If yes, then there are a few things you should be prepared for when you enter PVP combat. I will first attempt to tell you what to expect. Then, I will attempt to give you some suggestions how to counter what you learned to expect. The thing I will not do is tell you how you must play. You play the way you want to.
The most important thing to expect in PVP is that there will be many times you will be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself. You may be thinking, "What? How is that possible? How can I be defeated without any way to defend myself? That does not sound fair!". PVP is not fair! That is exactly what you should expect when entering a PVP zone. Do not think PVP is fair. If you do not learn anything at all from reading this, then please remember this one thing: PVP is not fair!
Now, that you know what to expect, let me tell you ways to lower the amount of times you will be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself. But, keep in mind, that you will still be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself. Why? Because PVP is not fair! Hopefully, I have stressed that enough. So, what do you do to survive?
You should have on you at all times some Break Free inspirations. You may be thinking, "But, I have status-effect (mez) protection. I never get mezzed! Well, maybe once to about a dozen Malta throwing stun grenades at the same time. And, maybe once to some Carnies (Carnival of Shadows), but those were flukes". No, those were not flukes. Those were indications that mez protection is not total protection. It is a magnitude of protection that can be overcome when more than one mez hits you at one time. These mezzes stack with each other, each building more magnitude, and will eventually over-come the magnitude of protection you have. In PVP, you will be mezzed. Everybody gets mezzed. Carrying Break Free inspirations will help you when you are mezzed. If you remember nothing else from this section, remember this: In PVP, you will be mezzed.
You should have with you at all times some teammates. You may be thinking, "But, I like playing solo. I can solo invincible missions. I do not want to always team up with others. Pick up groups (PUGs) are usually horrible". What if my friends are not on?". It does not matter what you can do solo in PVE, PVP is not fair! You will be attacked by every opponent that sees you, whether you are alone or with a team. You must expect that. So, if you decide to go it solo, remember this, you will be attacked by many opponents at the same time. Therefore, you will be defeated without any possible way to defend yourself. When your inspirations run out, so does your health points. You can go it alone, but you will be defeated. In PVP, you will be attacked by multiple opponents, simultaneously.
You should stay close to your teammates. You may be thinking, "But, if someone kites us (kite: ranged attacker steps into range, fires, and steps out of range), we have to close in on their position." All of you must close on their position. Any separation of the group will cause some individuals to be at a great disadvantage. Opponents prey on weakness. If a group is scattered in all directions, they are easier to defeat. In PVP, you need to stick together with your teammates.
You should know that the Archetypes (ATs) with the lowest amount of hit points are the easiest targets. You may be thinking, "I wish I was not so squishy (low hit points)". Any non-melee oriented AT will be considered the easier target. The non-melee oriented ATs are the easiest to defeat, but are also the largest threat when grouped. If you are one of these ATs you will be targeted first. The non-melee oriented ATs have very little, if any, mez protection. In PVP, non-melee ATs (squishies) are targeted first.
You should know that you will be attacked by opponents you cannot see, some of which can defeat you before you will even realize you are being attacked. You may be thinking, "How can that be? How can I defend against that?". Well, the good news is, that perception (the ability to see stealthy/cloaked/invisible opponents) at it's maximum is 10 feet higher than negative perception (-perception) is at it's maximum. The bad news is, that it is easier for an individual to reach a -perception value higher than any +perception another individual can achieve. In other words, you alone will not be able to see them. That is another reason why going it alone is not a good idea. To enable you to see -perception opponents, you will need things that give you +perception. If you want to know more about perception, click here-> perception. In PVP, you will be attacked by opponents you cannot see.
You should not get caught up in the emotion of victory or defeat. You may be thinking, "How is it possible to not celebrate victory or mourn defeat?". You can, but don't let the opponents know it. If you openly boast, you will be alpha-target number one. If you openly cry foul, you will be alpha-target number one. Never say anything to the opponent in local chat, private chat, or global chat; especially, global chat. Resist the temptation to do so. If you have a fit of rage, count to ten, go get a drink of water, or just go watch some television. Never say anything to the opponents, ever.
In summary, PVP is not fair! You will be mezzed. You will be attacked by multiple opponents, simultaneously. You need to stick together with your teammates. Non-melee ATs (squishies) are targeted first. You will be attacked by opponents you cannot see. Never say anything to the opponents, ever.
I hope you have enjoyed 'The Harsh Reality of PVP'. Have fun