[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In other words: PVP sucks, avoid it like the plague, it's not worth the time and debt (and there will be debt as all of those unfair conditions will often be planned to happen to your detriment amongst NPCs).
[/ QUOTE ]
A bit stronger than I would say, but basically how I feel as well. After giving PvP a try in EQ, WoW, and this game, I will stick to games like BF:1942 or Star Wars:Battlefront for a far more balanced and less hostile attitude environment for multiplayer combat with battlefield objectives.
[/ QUOTE ]
mmmm.....
PvP and the arena are good additions to this game. It brought more options for fun. The best part is, you don't have to enter them if you don't want to.
The PvP zones aren't "hostile" enviroments, they are only more dangerous. There's always the "ubAhdoOmlEet3!1!!" players, but, don't take it personal and you'll find how PvP can be enjoyable too.
[ QUOTE ]
But "almost completely" is hyperbole to the extreme.
[/ QUOTE ]
Meant to be hyperbole, for effect. People who talk in absolutes are either frustrated or stupid.
My point illustrated is this: PlayerX makes a Dominator. PlayerW makes a Blaster. Both players can be very successful in PvE. When entered into PvP however, PlayerW will dominate PlayerX in many ways and in many circumstances, teamed or otherwise. You could even switch the person playing each toon and the result would be the same.
Even within the same AT: PlayerQ and PlayerK choose to play blasters. One chooses Ice the other chooses AR. You have your head in the sand if you believe the AR will be a better PvP blaster than the Ice, all other things being equal.
I'm not saying people can't make "gimp" things work. I'm pointing out that ones choice of AT and/or Powerset when one creates a character plays a large role in determining degrees of success in PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In other words: PVP sucks, avoid it like the plague, it's not worth the time and debt (and there will be debt as all of those unfair conditions will often be planned to happen to your detriment amongst NPCs).
[/ QUOTE ]
A bit stronger than I would say, but basically how I feel as well. After giving PvP a try in EQ, WoW, and this game, I will stick to games like BF:1942 or Star Wars:Battlefront for a far more balanced and less hostile attitude environment for multiplayer combat with battlefield objectives.
[/ QUOTE ]
mmmm.....
PvP and the arena are good additions to this game. It brought more options for fun. The best part is, you don't have to enter them if you don't want to.
The PvP zones aren't "hostile" enviroments, they are only more dangerous. There's always the "ubAhdoOmlEet3!1!!" players, but, don't take it personal and you'll find how PvP can be enjoyable too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Definately cannot agree. I found PvP in these MMOs dull, poorly balanced, and full of rude people with very poor behavior. When I tried it a few different times, I either absolutely annihilated my opponents, or had the exact reverse, never a close matched or very interesting fight. RPGs are about cooperation and not competition as well, so PvP in an RPG is an anethma to the very foundation of the concept.
Luckily they keep this chicanery bottled up in the arenas and the PvP zones, but it would be a grand day if they simply ripped PvP out of the game forever.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In other words: PVP sucks, avoid it like the plague, it's not worth the time and debt (and there will be debt as all of those unfair conditions will often be planned to happen to your detriment amongst NPCs).
[/ QUOTE ]
A bit stronger than I would say, but basically how I feel as well. After giving PvP a try in EQ, WoW, and this game, I will stick to games like BF:1942 or Star Wars:Battlefront for a far more balanced and less hostile attitude environment for multiplayer combat with battlefield objectives.
[/ QUOTE ]
mmmm.....
PvP and the arena are good additions to this game. It brought more options for fun. The best part is, you don't have to enter them if you don't want to.
The PvP zones aren't "hostile" enviroments, they are only more dangerous. There's always the "ubAhdoOmlEet3!1!!" players, but, don't take it personal and you'll find how PvP can be enjoyable too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Definately cannot agree. I found PvP in these MMOs dull, poorly balanced, and full of rude people with very poor behavior. When I tried it a few different times, I either absolutely annihilated my opponents, or had the exact reverse, never a close matched or very interesting fight. RPGs are about cooperation and not competition as well, so PvP in an RPG is an anethma to the very foundation of the concept.
Luckily they keep this chicanery bottled up in the arenas and the PvP zones, but it would be a grand day if they simply ripped PvP out of the game forever.
[/ QUOTE ]
That has been your experience (and a key word "a few different times"). As for me, I've found great, knowledgeable, good mannered players who recognize good fights, and even share builds/playstyles. Of course, as in any other game, there's the "trash-talking" pre-puber, but those are easily ignored (or if the mood strikes, I say stupid things too, LOL). The important thing is, I don't let an online character get into my head.
As for the cooperation and competition aspect, you are missing something. Teams have to coordinate and cooperate to be succesfull in PvP fights too. I've fought every type of match imaginable. Yes, some fights are unbalanced and overkill, but some others aren't. Team vs Team matches are the best at being "balanced".....so, not every fight is black/white, as you state.
The great thing about all this is that the RPG classic concept is not written in stone, and it will keep changing.
We shall have to agree to disagree then. I gave PvP several shots to be enjoyable between my three MMOs. WoW at least (to my knowledge) fixed that Rogue perma-stun trick they used to do, and CoX makes PvP totally avoidable thankfully. EQ probably actually has the worst PvP of all 3 games. And I certainly am not 'missing something'. I am well aware that just like a game of say, Ravenshield, a team has to work together or they are doomed. The problem is it still has characters vs other characters and ever since I started D&D way back in 1980, I have never seen any good come from this. I gave PvP a try in these games anyway, since I was hoping it might have more of a point and less of the attitude that some of the people I played with way back then had, but it's actually worse since there is no GM to intervene.
Team vs Team is logically also more balanced than the FFAs or poorly matched duels that dominated the beta events for sure, but I still found them horribly lop-sided. In the SC beta event my Merc/FF MM never died and got 5 or 6 kills yet my Fire/Dark brute got destroyed.
My biggest gripe is actually the community and all the cries for:"nerf x! I cannot beat it in PvP!" instead of analyzing why they lost. When we would sit down for a game of SFB, losing was actually better than winning, as you learned more and refined your play skills. Instead of screaming that a power or whatever is too good (admittedly sometimes they can be, PvE is easier to balance than PvP), if more people would ponder the events and try to improve their skills/build, the boards would have less of the name calling and nerf screams. The boards here are better than the WoW boards at least. I was in WoW, and just recently my last friend that played quit but he was active on the boards, and the atmosphere was awful from all the venom being spewed over PvP.
In closing, I would say that if I found it even remotely interesting and more people had friendlier attitudes (like Foo, Reckage, and by your posting here aqshy2004, you as well), it may be worth it, but after being burned time after time, it's time to not touch that stove anymore.
Actually, I have such a predjudice against abusive Stalkers, I take it out on all Stalkers. Which, is not polite. I will be playing my Ice/Ice Blaster or my Controllers in Siren's Call, and even if I am one shot away from defeating a Villain, if I see a Stalker suddenly appear somewhere on the playing field, I go right for them and leave the other to get away if they can 
[ QUOTE ]
The problem is it still has characters vs other characters and ever since I started D&D way back in 1980, I have never seen any good come from this. I gave PvP a try in these games anyway, since I was hoping it might have more of a point and less of the attitude that some of the people I played with way back then had, but it's actually worse since there is no GM to intervene.
[/ QUOTE ]
I understand that competition may not be your cup of tea, and I respect that. Or, you may only like your competition in controlled circumestances. However, I can say that unlike you I have seen buckets of good come from it, and enjoyed it.
On a tangent, why do so many here worry about the attitudes of the competition? Who cares what a bunch of pixels say? There are numerous tools in the game to ignore people - if you find they are getting under your skin, tune them out and just play in peace.
There's an old trick to public speaking about imagining your audience in their underwear. A related one in-game is to imagine your opposition as a bunch of children. It's really hard to get annoyed because children are teasing you.
-Jeff
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But "almost completely" is hyperbole to the extreme.
[/ QUOTE ]
Meant to be hyperbole, for effect. People who talk in absolutes are either frustrated or stupid.
My point illustrated is this: PlayerX makes a Dominator. PlayerW makes a Blaster. Both players can be very successful in PvE. When entered into PvP however, PlayerW will dominate PlayerX in many ways and in many circumstances, teamed or otherwise. You could even switch the person playing each toon and the result would be the same.
Even within the same AT: PlayerQ and PlayerK choose to play blasters. One chooses Ice the other chooses AR. You have your head in the sand if you believe the AR will be a better PvP blaster than the Ice, all other things being equal.
I'm not saying people can't make "gimp" things work. I'm pointing out that ones choice of AT and/or Powerset when one creates a character plays a large role in determining degrees of success in PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Look, I grant there are PvP builds, and they make a significant difference. How "large"? That's difficult to measure.
However, your examples are pretty nuts. A dominator is far more valuable to a villain group than a blaster is to a hero group. The dominators control powers affect the course of the battle; the blaster is just a bag'o'damage. Granted that I like playing the bag'o'damage as much as the next guy, but the team with control beats the team with damage every game.
As for ice vs AR, I'm actually unconvinced about that. In one on one, I grant that, but frankly I'm seeing too many tightly-packed groups go unpunished because nobody brings AE attacks to the big dance. It would be interesting to see that.
Also, we're talking about PvP in the open-field environs of sirens, etc. Base defenses bring a different picture, one where cones and AEs are very valuable. Maybe all that's needed is a change of venue.
-Jeff
I can see possibly 2% of the people playing this game moving to Darkfall Online. This is a good and a bad thing.
As for the person who says PvP sucks, I will fall on the argument that you are not what I would consider a strategic and quick player. There are other posts on the PvP board showing how majority of people who are good at PvP are doing it in groups or with friends... Perhaps you should attempt it with friends/people you met online and will never see in real life.
If you cannot hang reflex wise or common sense wise, please do not attempt PvP at this time. Take a bit of a breather and give it a shot at a later, more convenient time.
Whoever said they tried PvP in EQ and WoW... I'm very sorry to hear that. Thank you for acknowledging the fact that they had poor implementation(or at least that was what I got in that sense). First off, EQ is a PvE game that had broken PvP from what I had heard. I never played EQ it because I'm not a fan of spending hours and hours fighting through a dungeon and getting to a boss that I'm going to be killing next week by doing the same exact thing. WoW is a better graphic'd EQ with more PvP implementation, and when I say PvP implementation, I mean carebear dancing and no fear of death.
Perma-stunlock trick? It wasn't as strong as you think, and after they tried to "fix" stunlock, people fell back on a hard to time stunlock that was even better and more efficient at killing, so I would say that it helped Rogue players by removing something they all relied on.
CoX has an amazing potential to be one of the best PvP games. It has very fast paced action. It has somewhat diversity in builds available(but not exactly builds VIABLE). If they allowed people to build bases that actually mattered in PvP or even CTF matches like they had said back in I4, that would be great! These missions that they have for the PvP zones are ridiculous... Make them on the outside! Have named mobs around that can be killed to give bonuses or something... Make the bases truly destroyable and give bonuses for it so that people who like PvE can actually work in that aspect while the people who want to fight, can fight to maintain those bonuses. It's a simple idea that I think could easily encompass both worlds of gameplay. When people die, they should not receive debt... But have a chance of possibly dropping their inspirations or influence. "Oh, but I worked so hard for those!"... Grow some testicles please. If you don't wat to participate in PvP, you don't have to(which was pointed out above and I think is possibly one of the strongest arguments against people complaining about PvP and how PvE skills means nothing).
You see, nobody in this game has anything to worry about when they die. Nobody has to care if they die or how bad they play their character. Do you really have to pay attention in normal missions in this game? Not really. I eat and play Marvel Vs Capcom 2 while in missions and rarely die and can continue to keep SB on a small team. You can't do that in a game where you can actually lose something other than your pride and temper... In a game where you might actually need to fight to survive instead of saying, "Darn, I'll be back... I'm rezzing at the hospital right next to the spot I died at so I can keep going back no matter what." This is fine, because I truthfully believe that it restricts your growth in the game.
Mindlessly slugging through the missions, you will do the same thing over and over and experience the same things. You're fighting a Porter and he teleports away... No problem, he'll be back because the AI tells it to go back. What happens when a player teleports away? Do you stand there like an idiot waiting for him to come back? I would sure hope not... Because there is no script written by people who probably aren't very good at their own game. I say this because every dev vs player tournament/function that I have seen, the players obviously destroy the devs and the devs learn a lot about their own game and tactics... For obvious reasons.
Expecting people to play by your rules is plain stupidity, so learn to adapt to the situation at hand, or don't join PvP.
Couple of things I think go with this:
You will be droned. Repeatedly. Sometimes it happens because of poor planning on your part (I'm guilty of Tab targetting + Autofire ), most on twinks who think its funny to TP Foe you next to a drone and make you come back, just so they can do it again.
There will be instances where you are TP'd into a group of 8 people with Zero chance to react.
Corruptors and Dominators will, most times, hide behind a shield of Stalkers. Your hero will get held, then get multiple "Assassin Strike"s appearing over your head.
Most people will go for the easy kill. Needs to be repeated. Anyone 'hard' to kill will be avoided like the plague unless their mez protection is dropped. This goes for Doms, Corrs, Blasters, Defs, Trollers.
Don't count on honor. There is very little of it to be found (there are the good players who will respect someone's wishes, but the majority won't) in this (or any MMO) game's PvP zones.
Don't count on 'duels' not being interrupted. Always assume there is someone else just waiting to get you while your 'dueling'.
Make sure that lone squishy is actually alone. Don't assume the Dom is actually alone. You go to attack and get 7 "Assassin Strike"s above your head.
If you're an MM, your pets will 9 times out of 10 be ignored.
And for the record, I hate what PvP has done to this game, between the nerf calls, the trash talking, and the general bad attitudes, it has really brought down what I felt was close to a perfect game. The only reason I am doing it, is because they have attached things I love (badges) to the thing I detest most of all in games, PvP.
The whole tone of the thread is horrible, but I got a good analogy to PvP and people with their builds.
Earlier tonight I was messing about on one of my Alts, a level 12 FF/NRG defender (Zomg, but controllers are so much better! anyway). It was a team of 8, a few scrappers, a healer, and 2 blasters. One of the blasters will be named "Girl". After buffing everybody, I throw up my dispersion bubble. Girl is in awe of its size. We enter the mission, and Girl runs headfirst into battle with her blaster, and immediately face plants.
This happens many times, and Girl begins to become furious with the mission, the team, but most of all my dispersion shield!
"Its a waste of a power and worthless and stupid" (Exact quote)
To which I replied: "But you are a blaster. Stay out of melee unless you're a blapper, and you won't die so fast"
Girl: "Yea, whatever, its just stupid"
Me: "Watch, this time stay within the bubble and you won't die. If you die, I'll personally run all the way to Atlas park and buy you an awaken."
So she complies, and suprise suprise, she didn't die. Do you know why? It isn't because my bubble is the absolute sphere of safeness, but because I kept back the entire time. So why the story? The bubble represents PVP. Everybody is pissed off at it for not getting what they expected. Alot of the angry people expected absolute pwnage, and are pissed off they have to alter their build to take in to account the other types of players that exist.
This is called having a weakness, and I'm tired of hearing people moaning about how they get beat up by other people due to said weakness. "But why do I have to have a weakness, those are for losers, stalkers don't have weaknesses when they destroy me. Lets nerf stalkers!" Instead of calling the Nerf card, maybe we should analyze the weaknesses in our build and compensate for them, if we're so enthralled in PvP that losing every now and again ruines our lives.
Moral of the story is:
Don't be a "Girl" in PvP (No sexism intended, its just the example name I used). Man up (No pun intended) to your weakness and either fix them, or give up PvP.
Besides, you can't get XP from PvP....
I have to agree with some of the posts here. PvP is a whole different animal and you must unlearn what you have learned in PvE sort of speak. I always try and group and when I cant I stick around peolpe I know who are in groups. I play my AT without SO's and very few DO's and I can still stick with the best of them that are all SO slotted. I dont use inspirations but I usually wont die if I know when to get the heck out of dodge. I dont expect a lot from my AT but he surprises me all the time with how I have gimped him. I think like someone said earlier people expect thier AT to own every AT and be able to handle every AT. I have played other games but this is the first game that I have been this envolved in PvP (besides BF2) and love having to rely on others. But maybe my defintion of PvP is different from many.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
More Harsh Reality
As it currently stands, your ability to be successful in PvP depends almost completely on your initial choice at the character creation screen. You may be an extremely skilled PvE gamer who knows the ins and outs of your AT and many others, yet sadly this skill falls by the wayside all too often. At times you will be apoplectically angry and curse the game for not allowing your specific AT/Powerset to be successful while seeing another completely dominating the zone. Take a time out and get a glass of chocolate milk. If you take anything from this section let it be: Your ability to be successful in PvP rests very highly upon what AT/Powersets you chose at the character creation screen, not personal skill.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did believe this and do believe it still. Except, as I PVP more and more with my PVE power sets (I am a PVP gimp with my Controllers, yet love playing them the most), I have learned to compensate. Given enough time, you will amaze yourself at your ability to take your gimpy PVE power choices and survive in PVP. It is just WAY more difficult
[/ QUOTE ]
Controllers are not gimpy. They are powerful, even with just PvE builds they are the second biggest threat in PvP. The largest threat being blappers.
You want to see gimpy? Try using a Dom or an AR/Traps Corruptor... or a MM.
Btw... Anyone else think that "this is a team vs team PvP kind of game" is just dev speak for: "We don't have the time, nor the resources to make things even for 1vs1, so just throw more people at a hero if you're having trouble"
[/ QUOTE ]
It is pretty obvious to anyone who has played this type of game that the "team based PVP" talk is just a cover-up from a refusal to take the time to balance things.
For those of you who "team vs team", how often have you been involved with PVP that had teams that were evenly matched in terms of numbers and make-up of ATs? [In the pvp zones, not the arena] And compare those times to the number of times when the teams were not even in terms of numbers/AT-types.
Which event occurs more often in a pvp zone? "team vs team" or team vs 2-3 guys? Or 1 on 1?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
More Harsh Reality
As it currently stands, your ability to be successful in PvP depends almost completely on your initial choice at the character creation screen. You may be an extremely skilled PvE gamer who knows the ins and outs of your AT and many others, yet sadly this skill falls by the wayside all too often. At times you will be apoplectically angry and curse the game for not allowing your specific AT/Powerset to be successful while seeing another completely dominating the zone. Take a time out and get a glass of chocolate milk. If you take anything from this section let it be: Your ability to be successful in PvP rests very highly upon what AT/Powersets you chose at the character creation screen, not personal skill.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did believe this and do believe it still. Except, as I PVP more and more with my PVE power sets (I am a PVP gimp with my Controllers, yet love playing them the most), I have learned to compensate. Given enough time, you will amaze yourself at your ability to take your gimpy PVE power choices and survive in PVP. It is just WAY more difficult
[/ QUOTE ]
Controllers are not gimpy. They are powerful, even with just PvE builds they are the second biggest threat in PvP. The largest threat being blappers.
You want to see gimpy? Try using a Dom or an AR/Traps Corruptor... or a MM.
[/ QUOTE ]
I should have addressed this earlier:
The most powerful thing about my Mind/FF Controller is not the holds. It is Terrify (Fear), Confuse and Levitate (lift and -fly). If I do hold someone with Dominate or Mesmirize, they just use a break free and re-group. My AoE holds are useless. Fear and confusion cause most people to immediately begin to try to retreat, even if they have superior fire power.
The most powerful thing about my Ice/Rad Controller is not the holds. It is the slows from Ice Slick, Shiver and Block of Ice. My AoE hold is useless. Slows cause most people to immediately begin to try to retreat, even if they have superior fire power.
My PVP builds will focus on fear, confusion, -fly, slow, status-effect protection (Leaping Power Pool), escape (Leaping Power Pool) and perception (Leadership Power Pool).
[ QUOTE ]
We shall have to agree to disagree then. I gave PvP several shots to be enjoyable between my three MMOs. WoW at least (to my knowledge) fixed that Rogue perma-stun trick they used to do, and CoX makes PvP totally avoidable thankfully. EQ probably actually has the worst PvP of all 3 games. And I certainly am not 'missing something'. I am well aware that just like a game of say, Ravenshield, a team has to work together or they are doomed. The problem is it still has characters vs other characters and ever since I started D&D way back in 1980, I have never seen any good come from this. I gave PvP a try in these games anyway, since I was hoping it might have more of a point and less of the attitude that some of the people I played with way back then had, but it's actually worse since there is no GM to intervene.
Team vs Team is logically also more balanced than the FFAs or poorly matched duels that dominated the beta events for sure, but I still found them horribly lop-sided. In the SC beta event my Merc/FF MM never died and got 5 or 6 kills yet my Fire/Dark brute got destroyed.
My biggest gripe is actually the community and all the cries for:"nerf x! I cannot beat it in PvP!" instead of analyzing why they lost. When we would sit down for a game of SFB, losing was actually better than winning, as you learned more and refined your play skills. Instead of screaming that a power or whatever is too good (admittedly sometimes they can be, PvE is easier to balance than PvP), if more people would ponder the events and try to improve their skills/build, the boards would have less of the name calling and nerf screams. The boards here are better than the WoW boards at least. I was in WoW, and just recently my last friend that played quit but he was active on the boards, and the atmosphere was awful from all the venom being spewed over PvP.
In closing, I would say that if I found it even remotely interesting and more people had friendlier attitudes (like Foo, Reckage, and by your posting here aqshy2004, you as well), it may be worth it, but after being burned time after time, it's time to not touch that stove anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, we'll have to disagree. Fortunately for me, I've had better experiences in CoH. I come from Xbox live (Rainbow six, Halo 1 and 2, NBA 2K, Jedi Knight, etcetc). If you think CoH/CoV games get rowdy, you should hear all the trash talking that happens over there. Everything from good natured comments and jokes to racist homophobic remarks, but, I take all those with a grain of salt. I don't let a few morons ruin the fun.
The main reason I'm here is the PvE game and the hero theme. PvP just happens to be, for me, a good addition to the overall experience.
As for those who whine for nerfs because their own short-sightness, I'm sure the devs don't pay any attention to that. The game would go to hell real fast if they did 
Anyway, if you find the open zones too hostile (I simply ignore/turn off broadcast channels), try pvp'g with your friends, it's really fun.
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I have such a predjudice against abusive Stalkers, I take it out on all Stalkers. Which, is not polite. I will be playing my Ice/Ice Blaster or my Controllers in Siren's Call, and even if I am one shot away from defeating a Villain, if I see a Stalker suddenly appear somewhere on the playing field, I go right for them and leave the other to get away if they can
[/ QUOTE ]
Stalkers are definately public enemy number one to many players and rightly so imho. You cannot ignore them, if you see one you have to put them at the top of your kill list or you will mostly likley become just another notch on their belt.
Also Buffy let me say that I take "no talking" to its ultimate state in that I turn off all chats of the opposing side (be they heroes or villians), for me my enjoyment of PVP rose greatly. I don't talk to them and I can't hear what they have to say. Someone has to be a superlative for me to turn on a chat and compliment them.
[ QUOTE ]
It is pretty obvious to anyone who has played this type of game that the "team based PVP" talk is just a cover-up from a refusal to take the time to balance things.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which would you rather have: balance or diversity?
Because you may have to choose.
I miss some of my diversity, while realizing that PvP is the only lab where the playerbase will report overpowered, unbalanced PC tricks. ("Phase shifted controllers? Why didn't I think of that?")
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is pretty obvious to anyone who has played this type of game that the "team based PVP" talk is just a cover-up from a refusal to take the time to balance things.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which would you rather have: balance or diversity?
Because you may have to choose.
I miss some of my diversity, while realizing that PvP is the only lab where the playerbase will report overpowered, unbalanced PC tricks. ("Phase shifted controllers? Why didn't I think of that?")
[/ QUOTE ]
It isn't that hard really. You don't have to change the powersets or the powers too much.
The only really screwed up powers in pvp are holds, the simple solution was break-frees. But they neuter dominators, and controllers too. It was not a good solution.
Changing how the holds work in pvp would hve been better. Instead of a hold like in pvp the power does something different. Either more damage, a severe -slow/-recharge effect [or some effect that is strong yet not equal to "not being able to do anything before I die!!"]
The holds should simply work different vs players. Because people don't like being unable to fight back as they die. The way holds work in PVE should and could be different than they work in PVP. They already do to some extent as their timers are cut in half in pvp, why not add a damage boost to them and give them a different status effect other than hold?
The main thing to look at are:
#1)Damage over short periods of time.
#2)Survivability over short periods of time.
They need to balance all classes with regards to that aspect and they simply have not.
So for
Masterminds:
1) Good
2) Very low.
Brute:
1) Fair
2) High
Scrapper:
1) Very Good.
2) Very High
Dominator:
1) Very Low
2) Very Low
[censored]?? 
It is like they never even tried the classes in pvp.
Cool guide and great read I enjoyed it a lot
You all talk about balanced teams and whatnot...
Look at every war in the history of this world... How many were "fair"? You don't get through this world with honor, you do what you have to to survive.
Yes, this is just a game, but it's a valid analogy because you know what? This game that we're playing involves characters(people) and battlegrounds where they have confrontations(wars). It's a very simple concept. Stop worrying about being fair and learn to win. Stop complaining about things that you have to do in order to survive, because if you haven't noticed, everyone else has to do it.
Holds are truly very powerful right now and the Inspiration required to counter them do in fact remove the CC classes of this game momentarily, but guess what? From the reaction of nearly everybody in this thread, you should have noticed that people are too lazy to go back and refill their breaks, so eventually your holds will be sticking anyways. Think of their inspirations as levels of Mag.
Oh yes, also, please stop going into PvP by yourself and coming here to rip your hair out.
Thank you to the person above who posted about the "girl" and the dispersion bubble. That is exactly what is happening here and if you cannot understand that there are places where you excel and places where you are weak, then you do not need to step up to the next challenge of the game, because frankly your challenge at hand is realizing your capabilities as a player and character.
I think it was best put by the devs of another game that I will not mention:
"The fantasy literature and mythology that inspired fantasy based RPGs contains conflict, combat and warfare and its part of what made these worlds so dramatic, the characters so heroic, and the endings so rewarding."
What part of that does not speak truth? At least you don't HAVE to PvP in this game. If you're having a bad experience with it, maybe you're just not ready for the "harsh reality" of PvP. You've all been watered down with these PvE oriented games to the point that there are rarily anymore ruthless, cut-throat people with BALLS.
There's really no point for me to post in this thread any longer because despite the thought of anybody having an open mind while reading these forums, I'm sure that all the majority of these posts are doing is reinforcing prejudice thoughts of PvP and scaring newcomers away.
My views on PvP as a whole and in this game will not shine onto anybody else because 95%+ of this community comes from EQ type games and there is a very small possibility of changing their minds.
Good luck to everybody in PvP. I hope you don't go into it thinking that your PvE skills will immediately make you a juggernaut in PvP. The only thing you can take from PvE to PvP is your knowledge of the game's mechanics... Other than that, you're going to need a lot of quick thinking, fast twitch, and common sense.
paYce
I like the guide. Its a very basic, very level representation of what PvP can be.
Just needed to comment on something real quick
[ QUOTE ]
You've all been watered down with these PvE oriented games to the point that there are rarily anymore ruthless, cut-throat people with BALLS.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow.
I guess the sheer size of ones balls involves chuckling over a handful of cheetos as you hammer the attack button on your keyboard, heh.
Here I was thinking of taking that Extreme Sports tour. This is much easier. 
----------------------
~Khenti, Pinnacle
Carl and Sons/The Establishment
Crey Cryostorm Lvl 42 Ice/Storm Controller
Hound of Belial Lvl 39 Fire/Kinetic Corrupter
Regarding h3al0rz: People are selfish and stupid and no amount of argument is going to change that.
Regarding Corrupters desired only for their secondary:
See above. If we werent meant to be a damage-dealing AT, we wouldnt have a blasting primary and Scourge.
Really good post, Buffy!
My into to PvP was landing on the ground, jumping into a pile of Arachnos with my invuln self, and having Quason 1-shot me.
I don't think I closed my mouth for a good 10 seconds. I really do like the personal responsibility you have to take in PvP now.
[ QUOTE ]
PvP and the arena are good additions to this game. It brought more options for fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
Such as the "option" of the 30 second Phase Shift... oh wait, that's not an option, it's being forced on the rest of us. And it certainly isn't fun. Tramples on concepts, for sure, but fun?
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
First time pvp'ing lastnight and all this guide pretty much held true.
I'm AR/DEV, I embrace teh PvP gimp. I was blocked in ice, stunned, chain-held, immobilized, tp'd into some bubble of doom with mm robots everywhere. I was assassin struck in the air, in the water, on the land, when I was grouped or alone. I died many times, I ate bf's like candy, but I did have a freaking blast.
[ QUOTE ]
In other words: PVP sucks, avoid it like the plague, it's not worth the time and debt (and there will be debt as all of those unfair conditions will often be planned to happen to your detriment amongst NPCs).
[/ QUOTE ]
A bit stronger than I would say, but basically how I feel as well. After giving PvP a try in EQ, WoW, and this game, I will stick to games like BF:1942 or Star Wars:Battlefront for a far more balanced and less hostile attitude environment for multiplayer combat with battlefield objectives.