I hope you are sticking to your promise and coming out with these changes soon I droped Provoke after respec since you'll be doing these fixes. I'm putting my faith in you big daddy 
I agree that if you allow crossover of the melee sets, Tanker numbers will dwindle. I'd at least like crossover of the Defensive sets, so we could have more variety. I'd really like to have my SS/SR character.
I don't think I should bother pushing for it though, Statesman sounds pretty "vision-y" on the subject. 
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*Performs the dance of joy*
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No longer do the dance of joy, Numfar.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
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I don't understand why it makes no sense to you. Don't controllers pull a forklift outta thin air?
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No, they create wormholes that pull them through and use gravity to propel them at the target, hence the name of the power, "Propel". And only Gravity Controllers have that ability. For a Tanker to pull a forklift or car out of nowhere and then throw it, falls outside of the tanker/super strength concept. The way I see it, I think the whole tanker concept has tobe re-worked, as Statesman sees it. I mean, when I see Super Strength, I see someone doing INCREDIBLE amounts of damage NOT taking it (though the two often walk hand in hand).
Responding to Hapheastus' reply to yours:
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they open up wormholes.... things get sucked through em.... a tanker just picking up a forklift that isn't there makes no sense. what makes sense is the dev, slow altering the static nature of the game to allow for that sort of thing. Crates, cars, trees.... that you can interact with. Windows you can smash... walls that can be bashed through. That will be no mean task.
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I agree completely.
Statesman, the changes look good, but I do have one concern. With build up/rage, we're getting near the cap for damage output already. With this damage boost over time increase, would we stop getting more as we hit the cap?
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And yes, the Damage Increase is welcome, but the Tanker/Scrapper build discrepancy remains.
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Agreed.. never said it dissapeared myself. Anything that helps.
I should note that.. I can no longer perform the dance of joy. I danced on over to the updated game and broke a leg. Why? Update 2. As it stands these things wont help tankers any bit. Spoke to a few tankers(one was a 29 Inv) and he says that he has suddenly become the first to die on any team mission. As it stands I refuse to play anything but my MA scrapper. Why? It is the only thing that seems to be able to keep up with the changes in issue two.
*Sigh*
Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you
<oily teardrops of joy form on visor>
I'm hearing stuff like this a lot, and I just don't buy it. I have a lvl 33 invuln/ss tank on champion (Kiloton), and I don't see those problems. Before update #2, I would get compliments on how much punishment I could take. More so after update #2.
I did respec, but not to try and game the system with perma-this and hasten-that, but something that made sense for my character conception. Mez is still and issue (how about a very slow movement with unstoppable, like hover has?), but that's life.
If you're friend is the first to die on a team mission, then perhaps the team he's on is reaching too high. You have to know your limits. Just because you can attack a group of lvl 38 bosses at level 29 doesn't mean it's a good idea. My tank is able to withstand a lvl 36 mob of Lts and bosses, but not forever. Nor should he. But he can take the punishment for a while, and that's what a tank's job is supposed to be about.
"Why can't my lvl 1 AT solo lvl 50 arch villians...boo hoo..it's not fair--I'm gonna quit" I'm so sick of hearing this song, someone change the record, please.
MEGAFORCE/DOOMSDAY and more!
My CoX characters
Geez, nobody has complained to me about how much damage I can take. Usually it's what's keeping them alive! But as I said elsewhere, I think all the AT's are too extreme in their balance. Having a massive damage output like a blaster at the cost of taking more than a single hit is pretty rough. A scrapper can take a few hits, but not many. Tanks are the only things that can take any hits at all. Instead of making them into the guys who take on half the enemies while the other people deal with the other half, they've been turned into guys who NEED to pull ALL the aggro, or else you get people screaming and running around while they all focus on the one interloper. Darn you teleporting Sky Raiders!
Tankers need a boost, but they also need a break. If we Tanks really want to stop being meatshields, what we could really use is less of a need for us to be shielding the whole time. If that was the case, maybe we'd see tanks turning into more of a stun/knockback/knockdown melee controller thing, which does adequate damage but whose real factor is A) durability and B) knocking enemies around.
But as it stands we're NEEDED as defense for a lot of the game, then we're not needed for defense, and subsequently we're not needed at all. Defenders heal and protect. Controllers lock down. Blasters and scrappers damage. Once they don't need defense anymore, we're useless. We need a real job. Meatshields with no attack aren't even a Fighter class. It's a Fighter class with no sword!
Sadly I don't have a tanker high enough to do a full amount of testing, but recent experience shows me that the status effect problem isn't effecting EVERYONE. I have talked to a lot more people since I made my last post and it seems like being held through your status protection is a bug because it doesn't happen to everyone.
Some regeners say intigration fails every time. Some say not.. Intigration hasn't failed me as of yet(I have to keep it on a hell of a lot more now though.. no big deal though). Maybe there is a bug with status effects? It is possible. Still doesn't change the fact that anyone without status protection is now.. well.. :x Doomed!
Oh well.. I can deal. Not like any of my alts were soloable in the first place(except for those WITH mobile status protect).
I don't have status effect, and don't plan to till I get Unstoppable (although I'm going to pick up Acrobatics asap, it's part of my build)
I was getting stunned alot lyesterday, thank god for defenders..
But we did okay. I died once.. but that was mostly my fault.
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As promised, I've been looking into the issues facing Tankers; I thought I'd explain the direction we're going. As we analyed it, Tankers have three very valid concerns (aside from the issues with specific power sets):
1. Without Provoke, they are not a real Tanker. Those people who enjoy the MMP role of "meat shield" have trouble holding aggro properly.
2. The Tanker's defense stats can be matched by a properly slotted Scrapper - but the Tanker can not approach the Scrapper in damage.
3. The Tanker doesn't "feel" like a comic book Tanker should. And frankly, this one really, really bothered me. Because our game is a comic book MMP.
So - here's the solution we're going to try internally. We went through a ton of possible solutions, and we weighed each one against how well they answered the three points above as well as how long it would take to get done.
1. Tankers will get a "provoke" like AOE effect on their melee attacks. The more a Tanker lands his blows, the more and more mobs he'll attract. The bonus here is that it's not exactly like Provoke (it's not ranged) - but it makes a lot of sense. Some huge monstrosity is bashing the heads of a villain group - they're going to get more and more concerned about taking him/her out....
2. As a Tanker lands more and more blows, he'll start doing more and more damage. The longer the fight, the more powerful the Tanker becomes. I can't say that the Tanker will do as much damage as a Scrapper - but it'll certainly be more than he does now. This ability really gets to the core of a comic book Tanker. He's extremely powerful - but at the start of a fight, he holds himself back some. As the battle progresses, he lets loose....I prefer this system to a power because this way it's inherent. It's simply the nature of the Archetype. And it also sets the Tanker apart from the Scrapper's criticals.
Of course, the thought in your minds must be....WHEN?...I'm afraid I don't know. First, we need some code for this. Then we've got to test it thoroughly. Finally, it'll go on the Test Server for awhile to gather data and impressions. This is going to take some time; but I thought you'd like to know at least where we're going, even though we don't know when we'll get there.
Feel free to comment!
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So, just where do Tankers stand now?
What about the Non-Inv tanks? we can take a beating for only so long,Im not sure the provoke AoE on Melee would help me that much.Not being an Inv Tank i'd need a healer in my back pocket after a while. Or a Bubbleman.
Junkyard Wolf
California Smog(CoV)
Far Rider
Durango Dave
Good question.
The debate about our damage (or lack of) has been running for 3 or 4 months.
This thread has been running nearly a month. States said that his original proposal wasnt working and that the devs had "a new plan."
I think we deserve an update about those plans or at the very least some timeframe as to when we can expect them.
I honestly do not think this is rocket science.
I think our problem is obvious and the solution is as well.
And I don`t think it should take this long for devs to implement the changes that will make us become what we were supposed to be in the first place.
And no, I don`t think we should have to wait until the next update.
Let`s have some action!
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And I don`t think it should take this long for devs to implement the changes that will make us become what we were supposed to be in the first place.
And no, I don`t think we should have to wait until the next update.
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Everyting waits until _at least_ the next update. That's what an update is.
I'd prefer you change the seondary power pool Taunt to Provoke. It's really silly that a Tanker has to dip into a Power Pool to do their job. Your solution only gives us a way to Taunt if we hit it with a melee attack. We need a way to attract all mobs in an area to us. Provoke is the only way we can currently. We will still need Provoke (a PBAOE taunt) to Tank effectively.
A few things (directed at no one poster specifically):
1. Holy ressurrection posts, Batman!
2. Provoke is a ranged AoE
3. They are adding AoE taunts on all tanker secondaries. This will, in effect, be a mini-provoke on all (melee, I believe) attacks. No need to touch provoke.
4. The "more damage the longer the battle goes" change has been scrapped, as it made tankers more effective at dealing damage than scrappers. They're working on something else now.
Most of these posts have been answered in other posts throughout this board. This thread is basically dead until we get another update from the Dev team.
Was'nt that like 2 months ago when he posted that. And they STILL DONT KNOW?!? Man that SUCKS. Also about that build power up attacks "the longer the battle the stronger the tanker gets" Well news flash, many battles dont last that long, mobs could be group 5 -12 and if you got a blasters and a Scrappers there would be one for a tank, So thats going to be a big problem. Unless you solo. As for teams, his idea would only work if teams dont pick Scrappers in the group and go with a Tank or the other way around. People would have to go with one or the other to make either one affective. And really..... to hit the comic book levels ---- LEVEL 10 RAGE for the HULK would kill level 10 RAGE of wolverine sorry.
"meat shield" 
if term was in the manual I would never had made a tank. For I DONT want a character thats purpose is to stand there and look dumb but take hits. For that make a pet class and throw us a bone.
As an Ice tank my major issue is being chain slept/slept&held.
Beyond that I've been very useful to my SG teams (pretty much all I team with these days) in taking damage or at least keeping folks alive.
And I'm rarely the first to die in a mission/encounter. And that's when I rush in first and get hit with multiple Alpha Strikes. Most of the time I'm the last or one of the last standing.
Freak Respec Trial: Myself and and invul tanker were the only 2 standing against 10+ freak tanks and some extra freak minions in the control room. We stayed up long enough for the rest of the team to go to the hospital and run back in.
Outdoor Nemesis: Controller lost control of her pets and aggrod 2 additional groups of Nemesis, including Fake Nemesi(sp?). I turn to look/provoke and the rest of the team is down (saw the chat, of "oh crap".). The say I should run, I figure I can pull hte mobs away so the rezzing can happen in relative safety. Sure enough the team rezzes adn I'm still up keeping them busy.
Maybe things are different post 40, but I know since update 2 has been live the SG calls on me for most of the Trial/AV missons. And when I don't make it, I hear about the TPK's and mass amounts of debt collected.
I'm still looking forward to the planned changes to Tanks in general (and Ice in particular) but at the rate I'm going I'll hit 50 before that happens.
Daristar
on Virtue:
Darkennedy dark/sonic Def
Lena Slayer NightWidow
Vengeful Woman Energy/Rad Corruptor
Hella Effing Cool cold/sonic def
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Was'nt that like 2 months ago when he posted that. And they STILL DONT KNOW?!? Man that SUCKS. Also about that build power up attacks "the longer the battle the stronger the tanker gets" Well news flash, many battles dont last that long, mobs could be group 5 -12 and if you got a blasters and a Scrappers there would be one for a tank, So thats going to be a big problem. Unless you solo. As for teams, his idea would only work if teams dont pick Scrappers in the group and go with a Tank or the other way around. People would have to go with one or the other to make either one affective. And really..... to hit the comic book levels ---- LEVEL 10 RAGE for the HULK would kill level 10 RAGE of wolverine sorry.
"meat shield" if term was in the manual I would never had made a tank. For I DONT want a character thats purpose is to stand there and look dumb but take hits. For that make a pet class and throw us a bone.
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In case anyone missed it:
Statesman speaks
There was a more "finite" word on the increased damage status, but I can't find it at the moment. But I heard just like the above poster said, that the original plan was scrapped.
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1. Holy ressurrection posts, Batman!
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Well, hopefully it got a dev's attention
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This thread is basically dead until we get another update from the Dev team.
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Yup yup, pretty much a dead thread because the Devs haven't given us anything more with regards to this since this thread was last posted to by States. Closes we have are some comments from Stratics.
Since this thread has been resurrected....
1. Instead of a Rage building-up power which increases damage.... (which doesn't work as per remarks you've made), instead give us faster Endurance regeneration rate as the fight lasts longer. This would at least let Tankers finish a fight without having to wait for the couple points of endurance we need to finish the foe.
2. Change Immobilization to Slow. Rooted and Unyielding Stance provide status effect protection and various other benefits but essentially stop the Tanker from doing his job: 1) holding aggro 2) melee'ing a mob 3) trying to save his teammates from mobs far away from him.
3. Plain and Simple: The Tanker primary Taunt power should have always been like Provoke.
4. Ice Armor & Stone armors need to be able to Stack.
5. Tankers should inherently become more resistant to status effects as they get higher, ultimately becoming completely immune to simple one's such as mag1/2, possibly 3. Nothing like running up to a blue CoT Air Thorn Caster and getting stunned 90% of the time by Thunderclap :P
.
Thats it. Anyone who dares insult Cryptic burns in hell. This plan rules, Cryptic rules, Statesman rules, now I know why COH is on my two year MMO plan.
*salute*
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3. Plain and Simple: The Tanker primary Taunt power should have always been like Provoke.
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Thank you. Apprently some tanks disagree with you and would rather run willy nilly around the battlefield "tagging" mobs just so they can do their jobs. I prefer provoke.
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3. Plain and Simple: The Tanker primary Taunt power should have always been like Provoke.
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Thank you. Apprently some tanks disagree with you and would rather run willy nilly around the battlefield "tagging" mobs just so they can do their jobs. I prefer provoke.
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I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or agreeing. lol
A few quick suggestions about Tankers:
1- Tankers should do knockback when they defeat an opponent. Just for the effect, it looks cool, and is very comic bookish.
2- Tankers should swing very slowly and not accurately, but they hit hard. I mean HARD! Again, very comic bookish.
3- The Tanker Taunt power should be a direct challenge to one opponent to come fight him in melee. It needs accuracy to hit, but when it does the target comes running fists blazing.
-Badlok