lionsbane_NA

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Heh, I find it funny how people go from "Statesman knows too little about his own game!" to "Statesman knows too much about his own game!"

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Sword, these people are exactly right.
Of course he understands HIS game. He doesn`t understand OUR game. And there are thousands and thousands of us and he really should be accommodating us.

The problem is he doesn`t understand why we dig CoH and our chars so much.

He thinks it`s all about challenge = fun.

I have an issue in the unimaginitive third rate way they dumb us down to give us challenge. When they could have just as easily ramped up and diversified the content to really get us going.

But he doesn`t understand that the buzz for us is seeing our Chars really rock in action.

He just doesn`t get it. And he never will. It will always be numbers and balances for Jacko. He doesn`t understand what`s really at the heart of this game.

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it has been iterated many times in this forum, and in other forums, but invulnerability doesn't feel right. the concept of being invulnerable, the expectations of a player with an invulnerable character, hell- even the in-game description, all revolve around resistance, not defense.

i know there are plenty of numbers for the devs to pull out that show invulnerability performs fine, heck, i offered up some of those numbers in the (non) dev response threads. the issue isn't surviveability, it's feel.

at level 50, my invulnerable tank should get hit- a lot. but it shouldn't matter. he should laugh at the hits, take some more, and keep laughing. now it's just dodge, dodge, dodge, 200+ point hit, dodge, dodge.

really sucks, but we can't seem to get any developer response on concept within the set, only numbers on how invincibility balances the entire set.

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I`m level 28. I can stand upto S/L reasonably ok. When it comes to energy though, you may as well hit me with psionics.

Invul is not fine. (I`m referring to the damage we can take not the ludicrous concept shatterer of defence over resist.)The imbalance between SL and energy is absurd and really bugs me. What could they possibly have been thinking when they dropped the resists from 30 to 7.5?

My weaknesses should be psionics and the threat of end loss because our Tanker set is top heavy on endurance usage.
Beyond that, only MAJOR damage of ANY form should (depending on slotting etc) should be able to even dent me.

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Mr. Emmert, reading this self-congratulatory piece, I wonder if you're mentally dysfunctional due to disease, nature or chemical abuse.

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Maybe just meglomanic is more likely. He`s found a little pocket where he can be king. CoH. Unfortunately, we`re his subjects and he treats us according to his whim, rather than our wants.


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Subscriptions seem to be down. The majority of servers aren't busy. I see few Tankers online. I've seen people form TFs, specifically excluding Tankers and Controllers. Why? Because there is a fairly wide impression that the ATs are "gimped."

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I actually suspect it`s because of the nature of all these constant nerfs, the arrogent way the devs thrust them on us and the message they send us at the same time. : "Screw you. Take it or leave it."
And that has killed the "loving feeling" a lot of people had for the game.
isn`t it ironic that CoH was at its most popular last year BEFORE the nerfs? At a time that we must`ve been incredibly badly balanced? (Although no one I know remembers us being badly balanced as a rule...)

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I read somewhere that you spent a lot of time at GenCon with the people publishing the CoH RPG. I sincerely hope that you didn't mention your Balance Vision to them. No one deserves to be laughed at by their peers. Although, I know some of the people at Eden Studios, and I'm quite sure that they're polite enough not to do it to your face.

No RPG designer would dare use that amount of condescension when speaking to customers. I do not believe this has occurred to you, but you should not have to tell someone else how to have fun. That you have to, should be an obvious sign that something is wrong. It's my opinion that (as far as software companies go) only Microsoft rivals Cryptic Studios' arrogance towards their customers.

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Agreed


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There's no reason to go into numbers concerning changes to powers, it's all about attitude and vision.

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Yes it is. And common sense.

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I bought the game last year after GenCon when I was told that there would be no PvP.

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Actually Lance, one of the many anomolies you notice when looking at how the devs work is that, though it appears PvP was an after thought, hence all the scratchy, badly thought out changes, in fact it was laid out from the very beginning.

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The worst part is that this post, and all the others like it, mean nothing. I don't know why the attitude of the developers has taken such a drastic turn from what I remember last year. Frankly, at this point, I don't care.

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Ageed.

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I didn't herd, and I didn't powerlevel people. Not that it matters. My supergroup thought I was "the Man." I won't spoil that legend with the gimped version your new issue would allow.

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Agreed

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I play to enjoy the game with my friends. I don't care about new content. I don't care about new powersets. In my opinion, the game is dying, and the faster the better. I really used to love this game. But, your arrogance and disrespect towards your customer base has killed that.

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i dont know about the game actually dying. But every other aspect of your point is totally correct.

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First, a big thank you to everyone who played on the Training Room server and helped I5 to be one of our best launches ever! We’re extremely happy about how I5 went live.

Second, we’re still scouring the boards for bugs and other issues, but we’ve finished making large changes to the power sets. We’ll still be looking at issues as the arise. For instance, there are issues with Defense builds; we’re going to look at that problem more carefully (the Damage Resistance Inspirations are a step, but there's a little more to come).

Thanks for all your great feedback!

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You are truly unbelievable.

I`m sorry. This entire situation is surreal.

Statesmans vision? He launched the game. Please tell me why the vision wasn`t in place then?

These changes? Do they make sense to anyone? Can anyone explain how the developers, who work on this game full time, could possibly have put out the changes they did to test in the first place?

please, Tankers, stop agreeing we need to be nerfed. We don`t. We were fine, weren`t we?

The only real problems involved herding and PLng, both of which could have been cured in a half a dozen ways without these ludicrous changes.

We`re Tankers. Those who take the set do so because they want to be the "big guy." Those that don`t (and we are in a vast minority), take their AT knowing that Tankers are going to be the big guy. Maybe if everyone flocked to be an invul Tanker cause of how "great " we are, I`d accept there is a problem to address. But that`s hardly the case is it?

There never was a problem in the first place.

All these threads, suggesting that we should be nerfed this way or that are just fueling the devs, encouraging them that this nerf nerf nerf path is correct. Rather than ramping up the challenge around us.

I just wish we`de stuck together and said flat no.

Instead of all these compromises we ourselves are bandying about.

This isn`t the end of the nerfs. It`s the beginning. Wait until CoV really hits. You honestly think that they got the balance right there after seeing the [censored] up they made with balancing the current ATs?

And we`re encouraging them that the next time they dump on us, not only we`ll accept it but we`ll even suggest how to do it for them.

Sorry, people. I mean that. I do not want to flame this community. I`m proud to be a Tanker and I read the threads with interest and a certain pride that, as a group, we`re so articulate.

But after nerf nerf nerf and nerf again, plus all the insults that they have thrown our way (Positron saying how delighted they are with our support for the changes..) why are we helping them?

Who really believes they`ll get it "right" this time? They had it (from a powers point of view) about as right as they`re going to already and they don`t even see it.

There was nothing (overall) wrong with the powersets in the first place!

Sorry people, I haven` read the 140 odd posts.

Couple of points.

PR is not cryptics strong point.
When they nerfed the Tanks last holiday they did so after months of promising the Tanks an ugrade. Then, suddenly they announced the nerfs. Result? Chaos and bad feeling towards the devs.

Today is similar. Stateman is saying these are primarily PvE changes.
Yet he`s making them at he same time as they`re issueing PvP.
Result? Chaos and bad feeling.

To be honest a lot of the changes I agree with (although my primary is not a scrapper. ) I think, if they dropped perma unstop they should have dropped the other uber perma defences to because they are that ATs equivilent. So the same logic that applied to unstop SHOULD have applied to those two as well (certainly MOG.) Otherwise you have imbalance. (ill state here and now I was venemently against the unstoppable nerf)

With super speed and jump, I (believe it or not) never knew that you kept accuracy!!! I never used SS in combat because I thought the manuals definision still held!!! (oh boy!)

But and it`s a big but, doesn`t the flash whack foes as Super speed? Doesn`t superman divebomb his opponents every now and then? Not to have these options distills the super hero experience and the devs are wrong to impose it.

They should take the accuracy OFF flight entirely to match the other travel powers because-well because super heros can!

However, regarding balance, (on the subject of PvP) what then happens to blasters? Or controllers who`s only defense is distance and ariel attack? If melee artists can just fly into range and whack them, with their low defenses they would be even more of a soft target than ever.

To go back to the original point, the truth is, for all their good points, to make these changes now, then say they are not PvP motivated is just idiotic and insulting.

But then, I do wonder how switched on they are to their own game.

When Statesman ran the scrapper test and the damage was set way to high (so he was whomping 8+) I couldn`t help wondering a simple thing:

If I was running that test, I would immediately have become suspicious at how easy it was and got my collegues to check it out here and then. And I`m not a dev!
Yet he went through with the test and even took the time to think through the results and come to conclusions!!

I`m not convinced the devs fully understand the game they so carefully represent. Or at least what the players re really ally want.

And that is a big big worry.


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But my point wasn`t about the nerfs themselves. It was about the unbelievably flippant and arrogant way Statesman went about implementing them.

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It's easy to criticize when your not on the other side of the fence, huh?

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Except I and the other higher Level Invul Tankers WERE on the other side of the fence. The receiving end.

They did exactly what I said they did. Asked opinion as to how to imprve Tankers (after months of Tankers asking for changes) and then from left field announced sweeping nerfs. During the announcement and the changes goihg live they never at any point (except Statesmans flat explanation) spoke to any Tanker in a months worth or enflamed boards. And those boards were very very alive.

It was quite an amazing excercise in arrogant PR.

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Lionsbane, you are making several false statements here.
First, you are touting the whole thing as a major nerf to the whole set and that he never cared anything about what you wanted. Temp Invuln and Unyielding no longer mutually exclusive. Unyielding granting mobile status protect (albeit slow) was something HIGHLY desired. It was granted to be mobile and that's a nerf?
The change to Invincibility: have you even read the original description in the published manual that game with the game upon release? "While active, gives Defense bonus (except vs. Psionic attacks) and Accuracy bonus, for each foe in melee range." I don't read ANY obligation that it should affect your defense to ranged attacks just because something is in melee range. So instead of complaining that it isn't granting all this other stuff at full effect that it never promised anymore... be thankful that they are giving you more than was originally described?

Perma powers: I don't agree with the mindset that any power with a drawback to use (stun, left weakened, etc) such as Moment of Glory, Unstoppable, Rage, or even Hasten to be permanent. Should I whine that my click attack powers with long animations don't even start charging again until the effect is completed?

also, the way you mentioned his discussion with the scrappers (there wasn't really a discussion) sounded like you say he talked with us. I don't doubt that he listened, but he didn't do much talking (at least not on the regen board)

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Khiara,
He did respond on the scrapper boards basically telling everyone to calm down and that the changes weren`t set in stone.

My point doesn`t revolve about the nerf itself.
But I will answer your points.

Of course it`s a nerf. Unless you`re 41+ what`s the endurance like now? Endurance is one of the core powers. We`re pre issue 1 now. That in itself is a major nerf.

How many slots are you having to divert to compensate for the extra defenses required to match your old build? (if you were perma unstop?) This takes away from where you`d ideally like them.

If you do use unstop, how do you like suddenly having to back right the way out of a fight (teamed fights can be extensive) therby dragging the baddies into your comrades (especially in close quarters) and crippling your sidekick?

Yes, Unyeilding is improved. I can see that pre 32 many will feel that is a major improvement. (although I feel a lot of the change is asethetic. In some ways I was happier when I was immobile but I had far more endurance.)

But I had perma Unstoppable, which made the current (much weaker )unyeilding redundant.

So I was nerfed.

You state yourself that you were not a perma fan so with respect I can only say that as you were unaffected by the change, your comments are subjective and unfair.

Please dont even mention the manual where it said I would be the big man of the team with a powerful offensive.

But my point wasn`t about the nerfs themselves. It was about the unbelievably flippant and arrogant way Statesman went about implementing them.

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Thought I'd pop in and give you my opinion...

I believe that you all are not just fans but customers. Because of that, I SHOULD listen to you. I SHOULD communicate with you. That's part of what you're paying for, after all.

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Forgive me my cynicism, Statesman.

How does this relate to the way you treated invulnerable Tankers?

The Tankers have been most vocal in their concerns about the set. And you stated you were looking into their concerns.

You even launched a thread asking for our opinions as to how to improve the set.
\True, some answers were "I want to be the hulk" but on the whole we gave literate, balanced answers.
And we believed that you wer going to improve the set.

Then suddenly, you announced the nerf. Out of the blue. From nowhere. And I assure you, Tankers did not volunteer the changes.
And, apart from the ludicrous loss of range on invincibility (which should never have been put forward in the first place) that`s what you gave us.

The boards were lit up with posts complaining, (Certainly it was fair to say that the feelings were high. Basically, Tankers went to war with each other. Discussions turned into flames. Rants. This went on right through december without so much as a word from any member of the dev team (apart from your mission statement.) Not a single post.

I myself created several 100 post threads alone.

And then you just went live with it. Bang. Again, not a word.
No discussion as you had with the Scrappers. You just released it.



And, although lots of Tankers have adjusted, others, myself included, found it harder. My Tanker is not as powerful as he was, and the situational aspect of Unstop, having to run off in the middle of a fight or certainly having to tell my team mates to wait 30 secs because Unstop is about to drop is embarrasing and turns me into something of a joke.

There were lots that could have done. (left us with full health, minor end for example. Enough to weaken us after Unstop but still able to stay in the fight. ) But, how could you? You weren`t listening to the core issues.

The whole thing was an astonishingly bad pr excercise.

For me it comes down to this.
I still play. I lead a full strength SG. I do enjoy the game.

But whereas before, when WOW and EQ2 and all the others came out, I refused to look at them. I felt you guys worked so hard on our behalf that, as weird as it sounds, that you deserved my loyalty and I wasn`t going to betray that.
Now, well that`s gone. If a new game suits my fancy then I`ll have a look.

This kind of thing may not bother you.

But, ain`t it all a big shame? To have customer loyalty then just spit on that customer?

The entire Tanker episode was exactly an excercise in how NOT to treat your customers, Statesman.

1) More ranks-only the top two of which (inc leader) would have the power to remove members

2)Ability of the prime leader to remove other leaders.

3)75 ACCOUNTS rather than Chars. Alts should be allowed in SG without compromising slots.

4) A choice of special powers that can only be activated if wearing SG colours. Each SG picks the one that they feel defines their group.

5) SG missions that can have an impact on the overall group.
e.g. If group fails a mission then the entire SG loses 10% of powers for a specified period. Or if team wins mission SG gains temp power for a week. Combinations like that that impact the entiure group.

6) Ability for leaders to tell/ e-mail captains only. Give out private orders without having to write the same message again and again and again and...

7) More flexibility of message of the day. It is insufficent in every way.

8) Ability to actually create afiliated groups. And to be able to communicate with or look at online roster of affliated groups.

9) A count on roster list. Who else counts down their list every day to see how many members they have at a given time?

10) Special colour coding for different ranks oif members eg, new members 1 colour, members who have been in legion a certain time another colour etc. Just to help identify whos who.

11) Leaders should have access to special information to help them identify various issues. I`m currently asking my captains to to a daily count of how many members marker says "today". So we can identify the true activety of the group. This and other info should be available to the leaders.

Many more, some of which will be covered in Arena and CoV.

i`m not sure what the problem here is. If the minion is the same level as you then they should be able to make at least a moderate fight.

To take a "super hero wiping out minions (in comic books) with one punch scenario" well, in comics the minions aren`t the same power level as the hero, are they?
The bosses may be but the minions power is not on the same level.

In this game the minions ARE. The lower end of the level, sure, but the same level.

It seems to me that if we want to go through minions effortlessly, then fight lower level minions.

If you want to fight equivelent level minions (and get decent xp in the doing) then you should have to struggle a bit.
And an equivelent level boss should be a tough fight.

I think Statesman is on the right track here.

Good question.

The debate about our damage (or lack of) has been running for 3 or 4 months.

This thread has been running nearly a month. States said that his original proposal wasnt working and that the devs had "a new plan."

I think we deserve an update about those plans or at the very least some timeframe as to when we can expect them.

I honestly do not think this is rocket science.

I think our problem is obvious and the solution is as well.
And I don`t think it should take this long for devs to implement the changes that will make us become what we were supposed to be in the first place.
And no, I don`t think we should have to wait until the next update.

Let`s have some action!

The Squadron Supreme.
Leaders Powerguard and Highflyer
Captain - Nidia.
We`re about helping each other get the most fun from COH.
We`re not a powerplay group.
But we`re there for each other as and when we need/want to be.
We`re small atm but we`ll grow.
We`re a perfect group for European players too.
e-mail powerguard, Higher flyer or Nidia.
The names cool and the groups cool too.

Embarrasing question really.
Can I mix pool powers?
I`ve taken all of mine from the flight pool so far, because i thought that once you pick a pool power you were stuck with that choice. Can I take also from, say health pool or any mix i choose?. I`m embarrased to say I`m level 21 and I completely missed this.
Have i missed out on anything?
Signed truly humble