If Matt Miller makes another MMO wishlist
By
Abyssus,
Posted on: 2012-11-17 19:57 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Wish list for Mr. Miller or other MMO designer. Create a PvP option that turns off all enhancements including set bonuses, so it's only character level/AT/powers, player skill, and luck of the game system dice to determine the outcome. (If memory serves this option and others exist only when doing arcs via Ouroboros Flashback not in the Arena.)
aka @Kristoff von Gelmini, leader of small SG bases (Infinity/Victory/Virtue/Protector), member of The House of Tera (Justice) and various others (Champion/Infinity/Victory/Guardian/Freedom).
Quote:
Am I the only one who remembers Rob Liefeld or something?
|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The concept "artist" for Boobs&Sleaze doesn't seem to have ever seen a real woman - which is probably why he was hired, as he shares that status with half the game's target audience.
|
Quote:
Most of us are trying to forget him.|
Originally Posted by Quin
Am I the only one who remembers Rob Liefeld or something?
|
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
Quote:
qft
|
Originally Posted by dark_respite
most of us are trying to forget him.
Michelle aka samuraiko/dark_respite |
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
|
Quote:
I only mention it after seeing this;|
Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
Most of us are trying to forget him.
Michelle aka Samuraiko/Dark_Respite |
Quote:
Is that supposed to be Missing-Anatomy Lass? Picasso Gal? The original Escher Girl?
|
Originally Posted by Quin
I only mention it after seeing this
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ogi
Is that supposed to be Missing-Anatomy Lass? Picasso Gal? The original Escher Girl?
|
I think Cthulhu himself would take SAN loss from that.
Really...
...it's all in what you want to focus on.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
speaking of costume bundles, that reminds me|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
CoH was pretty awful when it came to the female model, yo. The lowest you could slide the chest slider for females is a C cup, and you have the ability to make them absolutely enormous. The waist is, by default, unnaturally tiny, and only near the largest setting does it look pretty normal. The female walk animation makes your character look like they're walking down a runway at all times, and the run animation isn't much better. And lets not forget that entire stretch of time where, in every new costume pack we got on the market, the men would get coats, vests, etc. while the women's only option were revealing corsets and collars.
This game was made by horndog men and it shows. |
we had just gotten them over that too.
or at least working on it
so
*******
close
Quote:
Well I won't dispute that I have disdain for how this game was managed. It isn't like I made a secret of the fact. I also really hated seeing people lead on by their hopes. I have always felt that was a very horrible form of manipulation.|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
Why do people think you're hating?
Terminology used by you in two quick examples in this thread alone:
Both, at best, are pejorative statements meant to evoke an emotional response. While you may attempt to present yourself in a "neutral" manner, the wording you've used in those two examples alone shows a fairly high level of disdain for the developers and how they managed the game. ( That even extends to several forum posters that you have disagreed with on various levels. ) By using such language it shows that deep down, you're not really using a "form of basic observations and enumeration of incidents involving the developers and their behavior." You're just trying to hide behind a false wall of "neutrality". |
But I liked playing the game. It was a recreation I could share with my wife and something we could still do that both of us enjoyed. We had even divided what we did with our toons. It reminded us of when we were first starting out so many years ago.
What killed me, was simply put the game got to be like eating ice cream when you had a rotting tooth. You might love the ice cream but you never knew when a spoonful was going to leave you writhing in agony.
The "FIX" for blasters was a perfect recent example. After 8 fricking years finally blasters were getting improved. IMPROVED MY Fing aunt Fanny. No No moving blaster's stats up a little so they are in line with all the other ATs is too simple. The devs have to show how brilliant they are and DESTROY EVERYONE'S concept for their blaster.
Hats off.
Quote:
Buh... wuh... wow... I don't think I'd seen that one before... I... uh... uggh... LOL!|
Originally Posted by Quin
I only mention it after seeing this;
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ogi
I think Cthulhu himself would take SAN loss from that.
|
HAHAHA!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Okay. I really didn't see the new changes coming for Blasters as destroying any concept. What exactly did I miss on those changes?
|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Well I won't dispute that I have disdain for how this game was managed. It isn't like I made a secret of the fact. I also really hated seeing people lead on by their hopes. I have always felt that was a very horrible form of manipulation.
But I liked playing the game. It was a recreation I could share with my wife and something we could still do that both of us enjoyed. We had even divided what we did with our toons. It reminded us of when we were first starting out so many years ago. What killed me, was simply put the game got to be like eating ice cream when you had a rotting tooth. You might love the ice cream but you never knew when a spoonful was going to leave you writhing in agony. The "FIX" for blasters was a perfect recent example. After 8 fricking years finally blasters were getting improved. IMPROVED MY Fing aunt Fanny. No No moving blaster's stats up a little so they are in line with all the other ATs is too simple. The devs have to show how brilliant they are and DESTROY EVERYONE'S concept for their blaster. Hats off. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
could you elaborate? 99% of my toons were blasters and I don't remember the changes ever getting close to affecting my "concepts"
|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The devs have to show how brilliant they are and DESTROY EVERYONE'S concept for their blaster.
Hats off. |
Quote:
Snipes are time bomb, err, awful and are automatic skip powers? I got nothing.
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Okay. I really didn't see the new changes coming for Blasters as destroying any concept. What exactly did I miss on those changes?
|
Quote:
It was a nice change, pity we'll never really see it |
Originally Posted by Ogi
Snipes are time bomb, err, awful and are automatic skip powers? I got nothing.
|
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
I don't get this one, either...
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Okay. I really didn't see the new changes coming for Blasters as destroying any concept. What exactly did I miss on those changes?
|
"And in this moment, I will not run.
It is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands."
Quote:
Sorcery as a power pool maybe? *shrug*
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Okay. I really didn't see the new changes coming for Blasters as destroying any concept. What exactly did I miss on those changes?
|
My top hitlist for "CoH Features I'd like to see in another MMO" would be:
1. Appearance divorced from stats. I mean actually divorced, none of that "transmutation" stuff which allows you to change appearance but still limits you to stuff your class can use, I want an actual free-form appearance generator. If I want to have a light combatant wearing heavy armor that should be my choice.
2. Ease of teaming. This one is broad but CoH had some of the easiest teaming I ever encountered. Between the lack of team roles, super sidekicking and the general nature of mission structure forming a team was as simple as finding people who wanted to team.
3. Instanced missions with a focus on combat. This is technically a two-fer but I'm counting it as one. Leveling in CoH is mostly about combat, mission and story rewards are small relative to the rewards from simply killing lots of enemies. Combined with the instanced nature of missions this makes a situation where you spend your time fighting and not worrying about collecting miscellaneous animal body parts. Merits, Incarnates and the new Atlas Park did break this somewhat for CoH which was part of the reason I burned out on playing and frankly in a new MMO I'd like to see them moved more towards a kill-based model.
4. I want to fly (or better yet jump really high). Seriously, having to spend fifteen minutes walking to my mission is not engaging gameplay, it's a time-sink. I don't play video games to walk about, I play them to punch bad guys in the face. The ability to get to my mission quickly in CoH was always a huge draw for me.
Quote:
Most of the complaints I saw basically boiled down to the fact that the sustain buffs were almost all added to powers that previously were "worthless". People resented having to change their builds to take them. I think I saw this complaint made about all of the sustain powers at one point or another.
|
Originally Posted by Dollhouse
I don't get this one, either...
|
1. customization should still be the main priority, keep the crator expansive and represent as broad a number of genres.
2. offline mode. nocsoft's little trick has reminded my why I liked phantasy star online and universe, because even though the servers are long dead, I can still play them offline. I think It also helps balance the expectation of soloable content and team content. If the bulk of the game is playable offline and team stuff is a separate additional thing, It would focus more on making sure a single player can do the majority of the content. have us buy the client, and sell dlc's of content that appends onto our offline game and I will be a happy camper. maybe even make the offline portion lan'able, for couples that play.
Quote:
well, first thing is that metaphor isn't quite on. in your example, you purchased a game with an established setting and, with no stated mandate from the players, introduced elements that are not native to the setting, just because you wanted to. |
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
This.
People, it has nothing to do with cultural disdain. I love me some Asian culture, art, history, food, women, alcho--errr, I'll stop there. If anyone wants to take this and run away with some kind of "WHY U NOT LIKE ASIAN IN UR GAME", feel free to do so but you won't be having the same discussion I am. I don't hate many things, but I hate it when people take offense with me after I say "no thanks" to their offer to insert as much <insert culture> as possible into largely western cultural artifacts in order to "improve things". This is how you LOSE something great, not how you GAIN something great. Imagine if I had enough money to buy out all the Asian-themed MMOs out there and systematically began marginalizing Asian aspects with tons of American-style patriotism, spandex, capes and masks, cowboys and indians. Would that be cool? (Hint: no, it would make me a huge d-bag.) You know, as an American, I'm well aware of the mistakes my country and culture has made in the misguided notion that it would only be helping the world to leave the American "brand" stamped all over it. It does not please me to see people falling into the same ignorant and arrogant mindsets on the behalf of other cultures. There is a difference between celebrating our differences, and the assimilation of anything different. Just ask the Borg. |
What we have seen in several threads is that people state their dislike of something that several players, usually including myself, do want in the game, because of a very narrow definition of what the super heroic genre actually encompasses. in contrast, there are, and I have references lots of examples of, western comics drawing certain cultural touchstones from eastern, particularly Japanese culture. wolverine's time in japan, the foot clan from tmnt, samurai from the justice league, most of the stuff drawn by adam warren, silver samurai, marvel's various manga/ anime side stories, the teen titans tv series the ninja girl from sin city, Its a part of the genre, so when people say "no thanks" or more accurately, when people tell me my ideas dont belong in the game and should be disregarded outright because the only true superhero is a four color spandex clad anachronism, then yes, people are going to take their dismissal personally.
And i'm failing to see where you are going with the borg comment as anything substantial, the borg destroy and alter what they assimilate, expanding the game's aesthetic options to allow for a greater representation of different types of superheros destroys what exactly? does fighting alongside a player in a hamkama somehow invalidate your capacity to control what your character does or looks like?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Since the 1930s, the comic book super hero ethos has been primarily western in scope, and has only recently began incorporating multicultural flares to the extent that we see today. That's a good thing, but for goodness sake, with only four (soon to be three) MMO games covering the genre, it can be considered to be on the endangered species list compared to the hundreds of Asian-themed MMOs out there.
|
furthermore, you even state yourself that comics have become more inclusive since the 40's, so have bathrooms and drinking fountains, I'd say the ability to include a broader number of culturally iconic themes has helped comics grow into a stronger medium. The batman of the past didnt look half as intimidating as the current one with multiple eastern and western unarmed fighting styles to draw from, he is more black belt than utility belt. Besides, have you ever heard of manga? its quite popular these days, comics are more than just one thing.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
I'm not saying "keep Asian influences out of comic book MMOs"--after all, the comics don't do this. But you'll please forgive me when I scrutinize those who seem to think my western culture can't stand on its own two legs without "help" from Asian subscriber numbers. This kind of thinking is what leads to homogeneous cultural artifacts in whatever forms of art you enjoy, and ten years from now when you log into the new "Cowboys in the Old West" MMO and find it filled to the brim with ninjas, samurais, katanas, throwing stars, a kibun meter and maybe two or three actual cowboy NPCs in the corner of an out-of-the-way zone, you'll finally be forced to agree with my point here. Unless, of course, you're loving the game too much to care what your fan-demands have accomplished to stamp out of existence. |
western culture itsself is more inclusive of influences from all over these days. Within reasonable driving distance I can go to a korean Tang soo do school and a african-influenced capoeria school after snacking on a peroghi and while listening to j-pop music, American culture IS assimilating culture, and that is something comics are representing more and more. superheroes are not analogous to cowboys, one is set in the modern times and one is set int he distant , locked past, though games like rizing zan and movies like shanghai noon, do give some precedence. the scope of the argument sis so exaggerated as to be absurd. Diversity is about including others in, not excluding you out. The fact that we had the natural pack or the imperial dynasty pack never prevented you from having a large number of tights patterns available if you so chose. it only meant that people who liked spandex and those who didnt both had something to enjoy.
look, lets get to the meat of it, what do you think doesnt belong exactly? eastern martial arts? katanas? power armor? psychics? martial arts influenced costume choices? Cat girls? Giant robots? ninjas(or more accurately, western movie portrayed ninja, in anime and such, ninja often behave quite differently) Once you break it down, those scary foreign influnces are already a part of the genre already. so whats the breaking point for you?
The final bit of irony to this whole thing is that gg, the voice that launched the whole argument's one character that she has across all the servers is a MARTIAL ARTS/regen scrapper. based, as she said in the past, on herself since she studied kung-fu...so the voice for excluding eastern influences from the game based her character on someone using one of a large number of CHINESE martial arts. ya know?
EDIT: looking back, this was more confrontational than intended, cap actually is a poster who'se posts I enjoy, and I was just looking for a clarification because it looked like it was saying one thing, and i'm prety sure it was a thing he wouldnt be sayng. So was jus trying to draw out a more clear opinion out, not tackle him through wall, as it may have initially looked.
Quote:
Only a small handful of people actually complained about the blaster changes. Everyone else, aka the majority of the CoH population, eagerly waited for those changes. I24 was, like, a hugely anticipated issue mostly because of those changes. They didn't "destroy everyone's" concept of blasters, they only destroyed yours.
|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The "FIX" for blasters was a perfect recent example. After 8 fricking years finally blasters were getting improved. IMPROVED MY Fing aunt Fanny. No No moving blaster's stats up a little so they are in line with all the other ATs is too simple. The devs have to show how brilliant they are and DESTROY EVERYONE'S concept for their blaster.
Hats off. |
Costume/character creator that takes the freeform mix-and-match parts approach like CoX's did with more attachment and customization points. Separate zones and pieces for upper arms and forearms. Separate zones and pieces for upper legs and lower legs. Attachment point for navel rings and jewelry.
Decoupling costume parts and in-game stats, which CoX got exactly right. I shouldn't feel forced to wear an item which is totally wrong for a character just because it provides the best stats.
Quote:
I think I see it fromthe other side. And it's one I have a problem with myself to an extent.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
well, first thing is that metaphor isn't quite on. in your example, you purchased a game with an established setting and, with no stated mandate from the players, introduced elements that are not native to the setting, just because you wanted to. What we have seen in several threads is that people state their dislike of something that several players, usually including myself, do want in the game, because of a very narrow definition of what the super heroic genre actually encompasses. in contrast, there are, and I have references lots of examples of, western comics drawing certain cultural touchstones from eastern, particularly Japanese culture. wolverine's time in japan, the foot clan from tmnt, samurai from the justice league, most of the stuff drawn by adam warren, silver samurai, marvel's various manga/ anime side stories, the teen titans tv series the ninja girl from sin city, Its a part of the genre, so when people say "no thanks" or more accurately, when people tell me my ideas dont belong in the game and should be disregarded outright because the only true superhero is a four color spandex clad anachronism, then yes, people are going to take their dismissal personally. And i'm failing to see where you are going with the borg comment as anything substantial, the borg destroy and alter what they assimilate, expanding the game's aesthetic options to allow for a greater representation of different types of superheros destroys what exactly? does fighting alongside a player in a hamkama somehow invalidate your capacity to control what your character does or looks like?
which asian mmos are you talking about? there are cheap ones like 9 dragons and sort of conquer online, but by and large the market is primarily western fantasy(guild wars,tera, rift, eq1&2, wow, lotro, vanguard, dark age of camelot, age of conan, even final fantasy 11&14) with maybe some smidgens of eastern content in the case of wow, final fantasy, and conan and the original guild wars. beyond that there is sci fi(star wars tor, phantasy star online 2, sto and that intensely boring space one who'se name I cant rememberEDIT:eve online, thats it,) and some modern horror with tsw, but a asian themed mmo with a real budget? not seeing them. even aion and lineage are more culturally filtered interpretation of western fantasy, rather than explicitly asian in setting or theme. furthermore, you even state yourself that comics have become more inclusive since the 40's, so have bathrooms and drinking fountains, I'd say the ability to include a broader number of culturally iconic themes has helped comics grow into a stronger medium. The batman of the past didnt look half as intimidating as the current one with multiple eastern and western unarmed fighting styles to draw from, he is more black belt than utility belt. Besides, have you ever heard of manga? its quite popular these days, comics are more than just one thing.I dont think anyone is saying western "culture" cant stand on its own, what we are and have been saying is that superheroes have evolved, and to ask the developers to artificially retard the number of representations that players have the option of using in the form of some nostalgia is regressive thinking. western culture itsself is more inclusive of influences from all over these days. Within reasonable driving distance I can go to a korean Tang soo do school and a african-influenced capoeria school after snacking on a peroghi and while listening to j-pop music, American culture IS assimilating culture, and that is something comics are representing more and more. superheroes are not analogous to cowboys, one is set in the modern times and one is set int he distant , locked past, though games like rizing zan and movies like shanghai noon, do give some precedence. the scope of the argument sis so exaggerated as to be absurd. Diversity is about including others in, not excluding you out. The fact that we had the natural pack or the imperial dynasty pack never prevented you from having a large number of tights patterns available if you so chose. it only meant that people who liked spandex and those who didnt both had something to enjoy. look, lets get to the meat of it, what do you think doesnt belong exactly? eastern martial arts? katanas? power armor? psychics? martial arts influenced costume choices? Cat girls? Giant robots? ninjas(or more accurately, western movie portrayed ninja, in anime and such, ninja often behave quite differently) Once you break it down, those scary foreign influnces are already a part of the genre already. so whats the breaking point for you? The final bit of irony to this whole thing is that gg, the voice that launched the whole argument's one character that she has across all the servers is a MARTIAL ARTS/regen scrapper. based, as she said in the past, on herself since she studied kung-fu...so the voice for excluding eastern influences from the game based her character on someone using one of a large number of CHINESE martial arts. ya know? |
Is there a D&D style character in DC/Marvel superhero comics? Yes. But it's a rare thing. Very rare. It's one out of hundreds.
Get into the MMO setting you just see it EVERYWHERE!
One Jedi in the superhero game. Okay. Supergroup after supergroup of them? WTF?!
Made even worse when it's something that obviously doesn't fit in with the genre/setting. Vampire: the Masquerade characters for instance
As for my suggestion of a mix of western/asian style of art to go with mass appeal. It does go back to my "art is subjective" Do I like it? Yes. Does everyone? Nope.
But hey, I'm not an Alex Ross fan, and he seems to have a lot of fans.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Just noticed this article (Google translated) over at a Korean financial news site. It talks about changes to Blade & Soul for the Chinese market due to some of the clothing options.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet