So What is Plan Z?

I was responding to a previous poster. I thought his accusation towards someone as amusing.

Being a businessman and a programmer are not mutually exclusive roles. Ask Steve Jobs (when you could), William Gates III, or Raymond Kurzweil for brief examples. I'm 45 years old. I've had plenty of time to develop a broad background. Hell, I've even got a minister's license and several ordinations.
(Inserted for amusement but I really do have those credentials!)

From the position of an enemy of your enemy, not calling him "Bill Gates" just makes you sound pompous.

Trust me, you don't need to break out the $10 words to make yourself look intelligent compared to these trolls.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

If that is complete case then there shouldnt be much ill feelings as there is now towards this closing process. Seems to be that many people believe different.

I mean how many people here can honestly say that they can drop down in Korea right now and run a successful company the Korean way of doing things, I mean right now. Or how about Cambodia? Anyone know how to run a buisness with Cambodian clients and the Cambodian way?

Beleive it or not, the American way is not very easy to grasp and get a hold of. We are one very flighty and fickle player base and probably some of the hardest to work with and sometimes come off as loving one thign one day like we will do so forever and then not a drop of interest the next day. Of course it's easy to those that have been in America all of their life, and probably never been beyond the highway that circles the major city. But imagine being dropped into Kazakhstan and expected to do it their way or else? How many would know exactly what to do and not to do right this moment and run a buisness there and knwo what the the players there want and need, while at the same time, making buisness decisions. Or better yet, boss says that one branch has to go and you're an American based company. Do you fire your American employees and possible gain the ire of your fellow countrymen, or do you shut down the Kazakhstan area? And when you shut down the Kazakhstan building, how would you react if they was highly pissed off and went off on a smear campaign and probably seemed so hostile that no matter what you said it would only make things worse. What you do to make it right when you did a shutdown the American way but that was totally disrespectful to them?

It's easy to understand the side we stand on but is harder to understand the other side. But when that happens, ten times as much progress can be done then keeping the division.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Actually I AM embarrassed about the web site.

I set that thing up as a temporary measure and the CEO has been debating for months about where to go next with it - preferring to use Facebook more. I just pay the bill and manage it the best I can.

I've mostly just used it to do some test coding in the background right now until he makes up his mind. There is a full framework there based on the CodeIgniter platform. I'm using the Bonfire extension to provide a back panel, user management, and CRUD (among other things).

I've already received submissions by several companies to finish the job. I'd do it but I've simply overworked as is. Hell, I haven't even done anything with my own, personal, business's web site. (PyroCMS framework).

I'm happy to hear positive suggestions for it though! The CEO first wanted to eventually have it look like Rockstar Games's site but changed his mind.

I've also been handling setting up the Federal and state tax ID's, the paperwork for LLC formation (his previously hired attorney took the money and did nothing. ), and so on.

But thanks for looking us up! Under construction - please excuse the mess - and we are sorry for the inconvenience.

This was how COH started in early alpha releases....very Champions-esque "make anything you want."

And many of us made tank mages.

Yeah, I debated that. The pompous tone was intentional. I was hoping that it would be taken as humor but it looks like I miscalculated. Thanks for the positive criticism.

Heh, I love you Voodoo. That was fantastic.

yeah most buisnesses are going Facebook way and less traditional website way, at least as first priority these days. I'm not sure if it's over all good or not but hey, as long as Mark is making that paper.

Well I'll keep an eye on your company and see how things go. (looking as if I never even interacted with COHTitan) If you find more backings and once the financial stuff is done, next thing to do is clean up the hounds a bit and little bit of damage control while I'm sure many mean no harm, many do come off as brash, obnoxious, and a little bit off putting, and I'm talking about here on these forums or even on COHtitan. If I was a person, random person, that may be just another gamer, or someone that is checking out what's going on to invest or lend a hand, it's not helping. There is a way to be enthused about something and passionate without coming across as a blind raging rabid pitbull. While it's only a few that seem to not know the difference between the two, usually the people that is remembered and how and organization is remembered is by those those negative few.

Think about how much damage can be done if just one person came out and said something like to the media "Hey I work for Microsoft and I think all minorities should be wiped off the face of earth." Can you imagine the type of damage control Microsoft have to do before that label get stuck to Mr. Gates himself, even though I dont think he even actively works for Microsoft anymore. From one person out of the thousands to hundred thousands that Microsoft employs.

Right now, it's no big deal, word isnt out just yet, but with you searching for more financial backers, and they probably knowing people also and so on, and them aiming for more media exposure, they should really cool down a bit. Even political smear campaigns dont work always in favor of the person doing the mud slinging. Lot of times, it back fires.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Is that just the buzzword now days? Circle jerk? You do realize that even in furthered slang usage, this thread is not that, right? Or did your two cents just involve attempting to insult anyone who might disagree with your viewpoint?

A difference in culture doesn't change the fact that NCSoft ****** up. It adds to the understanding of why the mistake happened, but it doesn't excuse it. Especially after ignoring the people whom they pay to advise them on such situations.

Most (myself included) would still argue that the business decision to close down Paragon Studios and City of Heroes was made in poor judgment, but I don't think anyone can argue that they handled the resulting closure terribly, alienated a large part of the community, and made other development studios wary of partnering with them.



My projection for the next few years is that ArenaNet is purchased or liberates itself from NCSoft in mid to late 2014, then NCSoft West closes shop in late 2015, taking Aion, Lineage and any other properties it has running at the time to the grave. NCSoft prime will continue to be successful in Korea and the Asian market, and will only ever return to the West through loosely-affiliated subsidiaries.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

I'm SO glad I no longer do contract web design, and this pandemic of perpetual indecision is exactly why.

The last time my company bought another company, we did the crazy thing of using our personal networks to get in touch with the investors behind that other company. They were our rivals and by default didn't talk very much to us.

Support tickets as proxy for M&A bizdev efforts? I guess its not so crazy if you are some rinky-dink company with no measurable professional network to attempt a top-to-top discussion.

This is why I think it is wrong to be so hard on the Titan "Kibun" discussion. If anything, that started as an attempt to understand the difference between U.S. and Korean cultures, and to find a way to communicate to them in their own language. Yes, the idea got abused. But the thinking behind it made sense. Some have chosen to declare it racism, or offensive in some way. But it seemed to me like profiling, which sadly, needs to be done in cases of diplomacy. Nobody grasps culture shock until it happens to them.

Just imagine if you will, an alien race showing up in orbit around Earth, with the full might of their military. By our logic, we'd probably panic and open fire. War ensues for years, and then later when the dust settles and members of both sides can stand being in the same room together for more than 5 minutes, we discover that these aliens have a dire hatred of deception. And instead of concealing the full strength of their forces like one would do during wartime, they displayed it to us in what to them is a benevolent manner as if to say, "Here we are, and this is what we have."

One thing I remember reading on one of those links in the Kibun thread was that Koreans don't like doing business with people they don't know. Typically they're somewhat xenophobic about it, unless an individual they ARE familiar with, introduces them to the stranger. Maybe this is accurate, maybe not. But it did give some insight into a possible reason for the apparent lack of communication between NCsoft and potential buyers.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/richard-...son/2b/4ba/427

Trying just a basic search "Kingdom Come Games and linkedin" via google actually didn't throw anything up for me.

Well, it threw up the website for him, and the facebook page, but nothing at all to do with Linkedin.

So whilst that extra information is handy... thanks for letting his name out in the open.

He already posted his own name over at the "Community" COH forums.

Along with all the others....

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ic,5846.0.html

Actually, I just checked and I'm 2nd degree connected to TJ Kim through one of my board members. Like I said, if you have even modest understanding of business networking, its not that hard to get someone's attention these days via "official" channels. I do find using the support ticket approach...er....interesting though.

That is what I'm getting at. Ok, so if the messed up, what are they to do now? So far anythign they said just made the situation worse it seems. When they made silent it made the situation worse. So thus far when they speak it's worse when they remain silent it's worse. What done is done and as mentioned with the racial comment thing, many dont want ti to be fixed, they dont care what is said next, they dotn give a hoot wha the person do to make it right the wrong, the focus is, that they did wrong and really no one even knows what would appease the crowd. Just as if someone made a racially charge statement, how do you make up for that? Just like the process of the game and those that felt jolted, how is NCSoft is to make up for that. Do those people that felt wrong even know what would make it better or are they so angry about the action that it wouldnt matter with the best course of action being what NCSoft is doing now and just waiting until it dies down.

Like the racial comment, the past comments, the past when people bolo, and when NCSoft boloed with the suddeness of the closure, with this crowd, there never was a phase when someone said, "Dang, I boloed." and it was left alone. Nope, people kept it going to the point that there is and nor was a point in appologizing in the first place.

Really what is there expectation of NCSoft to do right now? The game is closing in about 2 weeks, that is not coming back. So now what? Some said release more information as it dont seem to be that simple as even the representaive from one of the financial backers for the new project and attempt to communicate seems like he cant speak on what was the planned offer, if they got through, or the detail of what was said on his end, and his company probably is a lot smaller and closer than NCSoft. While realignment seems vague of a reason, it's not many times that corporation go into much details of what exactly this implies, for one, you think they want any of their competitors to get ahold of information that basically show what kind of moves they are making? And two if a person is not a stock holder, they even less information. Standard procedure. The suddeness, maybe that was bootleg, but now its done. But this community of those demanding answers come off as beign so angry they wont listen to anything so what I would do? I'd stay silent right now until it dies down, which probably be after the game closes and let it fade away from memory until it gets to a point when we would have no choice but to speak on the matter but by then, the blind rage would probably be gone and more of people looking for true honest answers. The way it looks and the campaign to try and hurt NCsoft in any way possible thing goign on their, I wouldnt say crap to them either. That would just bea set up to give them more fuel to twist it and make it look bad. Silence from a buisness, happens so often that no one cares anymore. Ask a company in an interview about anything and 90% of the time it's no comment or couldnt be reached for comment.

Planty of people talking about what Ncsoft did and such but none give any solution of how they would fix it while getting the game closing done.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

This is a very strange phenomenon on these forums. I've been in a LOT of uphill battles. Scratch that. Up 90-degree cliff battles. And I've never seen anything like this before. I've seen heckling, and I've seen people doubting, countless times before, in forums far more cutthroat than this one. But I've never once seen people who find it to be their benevolent duty to use ridicule for the purpose of "liberating" people from trying to beat the odds.

Oh crap. Yeah, I do know where you are at. No wonder you seem to come off as misanthropic at times. I remember Dr. Yochelson in his seminal work in Criminal Psychology about that being a common problem in the profession (I'm paraphrasing slightly). Right now I'm being a technical witness for one of those cases with HS. Not fun. My original college plans were to go into general CogSci by the way. That's why I reflect such a strong, multidisciplinary background. My being severe sexual assault victim had me put such on a backburner for a while and I've never gotten back to it. I did change much of my focus for a while from neurological problems to general personality disorder and its formation.

I think you need a change of scenery for a while. I suspect this game (and others) have been needful escapism. I just don't know what to suggest. The problem is your sense of security is strongly tied to your current job and role. Maybe consider yourself as a co-dependent in an abusive relationship? That may seem a little extreme for assessment but the information is currently limited (for obvious reasons!).

If you read my communications here I'm trying to establish and sustain positive transference in a hostile atmosphere and working hard to avoid the cycle of accusation/defensive-accusation that has been trending here.

No. Not being lazy. I used an existing channel of communication with a business in a creative manner in order to better record it. I already had a reason to use it for its normal purpose and just combined efforts. Those tickets actually send an email to a company representative. The gist of the message was "...by the way, my company, blah blah blah, is seriously interested in purchasing yours given the recent news about its closure. Who is the proper person or department to direct inquiries?" Reply "We cannot discuss anything related to the shutdown of City of Heroes." Very interesting response. I hadn't asked for information about the shutdown. The response was unusually slow for such too. Companies have standard response patterns with regards to such inquiries, regardless of the channel, and this fell outside the generally accepted reply.

elvenhart? havent seen you in ages. Where you been?


Ever been to in a Santa Claus convo before?

You know how tiring it gets sometimes when someone constantly say Santa Claus is real over and over to the point where the other person just pips up and say "Santa claus" dont exist. and then it goes back and forth for a bit until the santa claus beleiver say, "you're just trying to crush everyone hopes and dreams."

Why cant a person be allowed to believe what they want without the santa claus believers pushing their view over and over?

Ok a person believe that Santa claus is real, the other person dont. ok.
But guess what, when santa claus is brought up again, for the 99th time, people will still say that santa claus is not real.

While hope is good, still dont force the hope and then wont have to worry about people "crushing" those hopes as they call it now. Just as much as they get that we "dont hope" or as some said to another "hate hope", it is just as annoying to have this hope talk and anyoen that dont hope must dont care about this game talk and basically anyone one that dont share that kind of hope is something negative. They dotn want to be judged but yet they judge. They dont want to hear the other view but yet, they make everyone hear their view. They dont want people to say negative stuff about their view, yet they say stuff about other people's view.

The question asked of what is wrong with having hope of that type? Shouldnt be nothing wrong with having hope of that type anymore than it being wrong to NOT have hope of that type.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Oh agreed, it was definitely most interesting, and it was also highly unlikely to work honestly.

My 1st port of call would have possibly been taken from this page.

It would have probably gone a few steps further than the support ticket.

Given it only took four posts to go from no clue or a joke to hostile I doubt it was an innocent question.

So you admit the new AmigaOne X1000 is a perfectly viable platform that everyone can use, and you will make sure that Project Z will make a compatible version. Excellent!

EDIT: Seriously, that group of rather die-hard CoH fans trying to continue the "community" after the game is dead is looking rather frighteningly familiar to me. I've already been there and done that with the Amiga community. Never again!