TBH I understand JKedan's point of view, along with the immense skepticism of a lot of the others still here. All we can really see with any certainty is our favorite game is about to go away forever. They're tired of lies, promises and rumors. They want something they can actually see. They want solid, undeniable facts. Anything less than that is going to be viewed with great suspicion and doubt.
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Agreed. Unfortunately right now some accountability is difficult to come by and there is simply too much rumor.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
TBH I understand JKedan's point of view, along with the immense skepticism of a lot of the others still here. All we can really see with any certainty is our favorite game is about to go away forever. They're tired of lies, promises and rumors. They want something they can actually see. They want solid, undeniable facts. Anything less than that is going to be viewed with great suspicion and doubt.
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Originally Posted by JKedan
This number?
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=297932 The one a redname suggests is not worth speculating on and Golden Girl herself dismisses as unrealistic? |
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| "It's going to be better for everyone (the community & the people still left from the Paragon team) if you only pay attention to information coming directly from the involved parties." |
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| Of course, somehow, with no proof whatsoever, the number has morphed from being an offer to an asking price. Convenient how the new viewpoint just happens to be in line with the SaveCoX anti-NCSoft propaganda. |
As an asking price it is actually less villifying. Turning down an 80mil offer implies the asking price is even higher.
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exactly.
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Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
...there is simply too much rumor.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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You're not paying attention to how it's being used.|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Ironically, that it changed to an asking price contradicts the purpose of propaganda.
As an asking price it is actually less villifying. Turning down an 80mil offer implies the asking price is even higher. |
As an offer, well, that's just some absurd rumor. No one would ever make an $80 million offer for CoX. There's just no way it's worth that.
As an asking price, it's clearly proof that evil NCSoft is just setting the price at such a high level that no one will ever even try, so they can say 'they exhausted all options' and deceive us all with their despicable PR speak.
You don't even have to look at a different thread, much less a different forum, to see it. Just find a couple of GG's posts above.
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The biggest complaint, and a valid one, is there is no way to substantiate that it is an actual asking price from NCSoft.|
Originally Posted by JKedan
You're not paying attention to how it's being used.
As an offer, well, that's just some absurd rumor. No one would ever make an $80 million offer for CoX. There's just no way it's worth that. As an asking price, it's clearly proof that evil NCSoft is just setting the price at such a high level that no one will ever even try, so they can say 'they exhausted all options' and deceive us all with their despicable PR speak. You don't even have to look at a different thread, much less a different forum, to see it. Just find a couple of GG's posts above. |
That NCSoft has a history of deceit is well established, and in an open court of law. I would suspect that is a contributing factor in their alleged decisions to pull out of Western markets if that is indeed the case. Again this is mostly rumor but it has more substantial sources than what has been bandied about around here.
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Oh i will agree about the Court of Law (Assuming you are referring to the Garriott court case here...), where they did try to at least mislead people about how stuff worked over in S. Korea and resignations.|
Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
The biggest complaint, and a valid one, is there is no way to substantiate that it is an actual asking price from NCSoft.
That NCSoft has a history of deceit is well established, and in an open court of law. I would suspect that is a contributing factor in their alleged decisions to pull out of Western markets if that is indeed the case. Again this is mostly rumor but it has more substantial sources than what has been bandied about around here. |
However, the same stuff happens with US companies as well...(thinking about Apple/ebook price fixing, as well as the recent Apple/Samsung court case debacle)
Oh, and Apple playing smarty pants with Samsung in the UK and getting smacked by the UK judges.
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It's those fancy wigs they wear. They're BS filters.
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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Oh, and Apple playing smarty pants with Samsung in the UK and getting smacked by the UK judges.
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I knew they were more than just a snappy fashion accessory.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
It's those fancy wigs they wear. They're BS filters.
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NCsoft just released GW2, has Wildstar coming out is promoting it's asian games as western localizations. The only people that talk about NCsoft abandoning the west are people on the Titan boards who are the same people who have no trouble giving negative reviews to games they have never played and or overstating CoH's profitability.|
Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
The biggest complaint, and a valid one, is there is no way to substantiate that it is an actual asking price from NCSoft.
That NCSoft has a history of deceit is well established, and in an open court of law. I would suspect that is a contributing factor in their alleged decisions to pull out of Western markets if that is indeed the case. Again this is mostly rumor but it has more substantial sources than what has been bandied about around here. |
Matter of fact seeing as this is an unattributed statement on your part and it's something that there is both no proof for and contradicted by NCsofts actions where is your source ?
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This is from commentary on a web site related to employer comparison. It's postings from alleged NCSoft West employees. Since they are posting anonymously - well, I think you see why I take it with a grain of salt. Unless there are real names behind it I call it a rumor.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
NCsoft just released GW2, has Wildstar coming out is promoting it's asian games as western localizations. The only people that talk about NCsoft abandoning the west are people on the Titan boards who are the same people who have no trouble giving negative reviews to games they have never played and or overstating CoH's profitability.
Matter of fact seeing as this is an unattributed statement on your part and it's something that there is both no proof for and contradicted by NCsofts actions where is your source ? |
I can probably hunt around for it again. It's NOT on the Titan boards though.
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oh you mean Glassdoor.com|
Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
This is from commentary on a web site related to employer comparison. It's postings from alleged NCSoft West employees. Since they are posting anonymously - well, I think you see why I take it with a grain of salt. Unless there are real names behind it I call it a rumor.
I can probably hunt around for it again. It's NOT on the Titan boards though. |
Has been brought up in the past on these forums as well as the Titan Network forums.
Someone give me $80 million and a time machine. I need to go back to 2002...
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Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
This is from commentary on a web site related to employer comparison. It's postings from alleged NCSoft West employees. Since they are posting anonymously - well, I think you see why I take it with a grain of salt. Unless there are real names behind it I call it a rumor.
I can probably hunt around for it again. It's NOT on the Titan boards though. |
There is one mention of Asia regarding NCsoft on glassdoor
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| [Cons – Being part of NCSoft west... sometimes it felt as though they didn't cared as much about us as they did their Asian companies. |
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Yes. And I think I saw another source. I didn't mark it but I might be able to find it again. I'm trying to remember the circumstances. Given the level of rumor around here I'm trying to cite what I can that's reliable. I have no interest following the soap opera that is NCSoft, but it seems to delight others.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
There is one mention of Asia regarding NCsoft on glassdoor
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/NCs...-E23242_P3.htm |
Well if you are looking for RELIABLE: Glassdoor is not a reliable source; unless of course you think disgruntled ex-employees=reliable. I worked for a large corporation that I would have rated very satisfied to work for; they didn't fare much better than NCSoft 
Only reason I left that company after 7 years was because I was offered a position that suited me more and had better benefits.
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Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
Yes. And I think I saw another source. I didn't mark it but I might be able to find it again. I'm trying to remember the circumstances. Given the level of rumor around here I'm trying to cite what I can that's reliable. I have no interest following the soap opera that is NCSoft, but it seems to delight others.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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That qoute doesn't say anything like what you are saying. If an employee of CBS in California said that sometimes it felt like they cared more about their New York operations, it would be just as wrong to jump to the conclusion that they were abandoning the Western U.S.|
Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
Yes. And I think I saw another source. I didn't mark it but I might be able to find it again. I'm trying to remember the circumstances. Given the level of rumor around here I'm trying to cite what I can that's reliable. I have no interest following the soap opera that is NCSoft, but it seems to delight others.
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NCSoft derives an overwhelming portion of it's revenues from the asian market. Aion is a gigantic MMO worldwide of course they care more about their big sellers than marginal games.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Well if you are looking for RELIABLE: Glassdoor is not a reliable source; unless of course you think disgruntled ex-employees=reliable. I worked for a large corporation that I would have rated very satisfied to work for; they didn't fare much better than NCSoft
Only reason I left that company after 7 years was because I was offered a position that suited me more and had better benefits. |
Actually that guy gave a pretty good rating to the company and that was the only negative thing he had to say. If that is the worst people working for them have to say they are likely an outstandingly nice company
I'm not quoting everyone above who replied to me, but it's looking like we are all pretty much agreed on the reliability of Glassdoor and the sayings of disgruntled employees. In short, not very. I also feel the same way about the "withdrawing from the Western market" rumor.
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JayboH.
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
Just for reference, were you referring to me or JayboH there? (Or both, is an option too, I guess.)
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That's because I'm not. I am very negative about Plan Z and any further attempts by Titan to save the game. I don't deserve that label on account of that.|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
JayboH.
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This is the only attempt I am aware of.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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If you think the only image links one can post that defines someone as a troll, are troll images, you are sorely mistaken.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
That's because I'm not. I am very negative about Plan Z and any further attempts by Titan to save the game. I don't deserve that label on account of that.
This is the only attempt I am aware of. |
Your little 'animal cuddles' tirade from a few pages back tells us that you take pleasure in the misery of others. That is one of the defining characteristics of a troll. And what better way to guarantee even more misery to feed off of than by snuffing out every candle of hope you can find?
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In their world you are.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
That's because I'm not. I am very negative about Plan Z and any further attempts by Titan to save the game. I don't deserve that label on account of that.
This is the only attempt I am aware of. |
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He's a board moderator somewhere else or something, don't you remember? So he's allowed to be a smarty mouth... for $REASON.
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Your little 'animal cuddles' tirade from a few pages back tells us that you take pleasure in the misery of others. That is one of the defining characteristics of a troll. And what better way to guarantee even more misery to feed off of than by snuffing out every candle of hope you can find?
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It all goes back to one of the main problems I have with the whole Plan Z thing. It is not their goals that bother me, it is their methods, and more specifically, their public behavior. Not ALL of them. I don't want to start hearing people griping about me for labeling all of them unfairly. You can find plenty of examples both here and on the Titan boards, where members of Plan Z have said and done things that are indefensible for a software company to endorse or just turn a blind eye to. Chalk it up to having a LOT of people joining in on a community driven project, that don't actually know how to behave in a corporate environment, or who don't understand the business repercussions of those actions. I sort of feel sorry for Avel, as he has suddenly become a focal point of attention here. I think he came in here with the best of intentions, to show that Plan Z isn't just some flighty operation. Unfortunately what he presented, and how he presented it, doesn't match the experience of many of us. I said before, there may have been a lot more going on that he hasn't shared. Truthfully though, even if he had come in here with undeniable proof that he followed the correct procedures, and knew exactly what he was doing, he still would have been attacked. Why? because others from the Plan Z group have so soured a good portion of the playerbase here, that there is no way to recover, short of suddenly brokering a deal that DOES allow them to purchase the game from NCSoft.
For business and personal reasons I'm continuing to support the project but I do have my worries.
Thanks for the constructive criticism.