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Which was corrected and clarified as a miscommunication. This is not arrogance, this is carelessness, for which I quickly apologized. If I were truly as bad a person as you seem to believe, I would've let the initial statement stand.
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Over a game? Silly silly person.
Gee, there's a lot of boorish arrogance from your side. First you have Plan Z's "marketing executive" telling someone from Korean heritage that their culture is an affront to our community, and now we have some poor sap like you throwing out asterisks at people for the crime of not knowing English expressions. |
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Well, you know what they say about gaffes: they happen when liars accidentally tell the truth. You're right it's carelessness, but not for the reason you think. You're a racist. I don't give a damn about your apology. You showed your true colors, and since you don't want this to cast aspersions on the wider Plan Z project, you're walking it back.|
Originally Posted by Terwyn
Which was corrected and clarified as a miscommunication. This is not arrogance, this is carelessness, for which I quickly apologized. If I were truly as bad a person as you seem to believe, I would've let the initial statement stand.
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You need to own your statement. The belief you espoused is widespread among the Titan folks. The origin of it is clear: groupthink. You think it's acceptable to spout racist slander against millions of people. Kinda funny that that Chad nut is busy telling me I'm a horrible excuse for a human being, while letting racists like you slide.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
I do believe we're reaching a point of self-fulfilling prophecy now.
Give this a couple more days and it'll be, "Your plan will never work. And to prove it, I'm going out of my way to make sure it can't."
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Actually those tickets are official channels of communication with the organization. They are also logged with copies sent to all parties. The kind of thing needed in court. |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
LOL apparently support tickets are not meant to be used as official communications regarding the purchase of the IP.. Who knew!?!?!
And this is the "proof" that NCSoft fails to communicate with established businesses...and people wonder why the SAVE team is seen as a bunch of amateurs? Go figure. That lil bit of info discredits the SAVE team more than anything I have seen posted by them. Heck you could have even used the sunset email address, their real email addy, or even a phone call, but instead you chose to use an in-game support button to back up your claim that NCSoft won't discuss selling. Ok. |
Given that I've successfully filed lawsuits in U.S. Federal court, and that I'm the writer of the Plan z license agreement (notice that one of the persons to use it is a practicing attorney) I might know a thing or two about this kind of stuff. Matter of fact I've been a consultant to attorneys and have a small business of my own with a senior municipal judge as a client. As a professional consultant my going rate is $300.00 USD/hr.Legally it is proof that they refused to communicate about the issue of sale. I do this for a living. How about you?
Ad hominems aren't proof of incompetence.
In your defense you did apologize, but:
It's like saying Africa is full of "Lazy N*g**rs" and then trying to take it back...still makes you look racist.
Do I think you are racist?? I dunno. I think you are overly emotional and posted something inflammatory in the heat of the moment that you now regret. Your regret can be motivated by sincerity or simply a way of covering your behind. Lesson learned: Be ready to stand behind your posts 100% and say what you mean before hitting SUBMIT.
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Originally Posted by Terwyn
Which was corrected and clarified as a miscommunication. This is not arrogance, this is carelessness, for which I quickly apologized. If I were truly as bad a person as you seem to believe, I would've let the initial statement stand.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Any other words you'd like to twist?|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
You attacked someone and called them an idiot for not knowing an English expression, displaying your complete inability to potentially empathize with someone from another culture.
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I never called her an idiot or anything to that effect for not knowing the phrase. I said I didn't believe she didn't know it, and that the phrase itself means to be stupid and useless. (I honestly still don't believe she's never heard it before today, but that really doesn't matter anymore.)
I did, later, say that it would be idiotic to assume I was still speaking literally after I'd already said it was an expression. And I'll stand by that.
But I don't think EL is stupid. Just sociopathic and... well, evil.
And for the record, my opinion of her is better than my opinion of you. I don't believe she goes out of her way to be a ***** for fun.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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So stating the obvious fact that cooperation between a group of people who aren't communicating is an act of sabotage?
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
I do believe we're reaching a point of self-fulfilling prophecy now.
Give this a couple more days and it'll be, "Your plan will never work. And to prove it, I'm going out of my way to make sure it can't." |
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You don't know me.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Well, you know what they say about gaffes: they happen when liars accidentally tell the truth. You're right it's carelessness, but not for the reason you think. You're a racist. I don't give a damn about your apology. You showed your true colors, and since you don't want this to cast aspersions on the wider Plan Z project, you're walking it back.
You need to own your statement. The belief you espoused is widespread among the Titan folks. The origin of it is clear: groupthink. You think it's acceptable to spout racist slander against millions of people. Kinda funny that that Chad nut is busy telling me I'm a horrible excuse for a human being, while letting racists like you slide. |
There is a clear dissonance between the work culture of Korea and the work culture of North America, which causes a great deal of friction. Recognizing that this friction played a significant part in the events of recent months is not at all evidence that I am racist.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
In your defense you did apologize, but:
It's like saying Africa is full of "Lazy N*g**rs" and then trying to take it back...still makes you look racist. Do I think you are racist?? I dunno. I think you are overly emotional and posted something inflammatory in the heat of the moment that you now regret. Your regret can be motivated by sincerity or simply a way of covering your behind. Lesson learned: Be ready to stand behind your posts 100% and say what you mean before hitting SUBMIT. |
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I'm specifically referring to the racism debate that has sprung up out of nowhere, where the accusers are now making sure that the accused remains a racist, no matter what.
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Originally Posted by That_Ninja
So stating the obvious fact that cooperation between a group of people who aren't communicating is an act of sabotage?
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To be fair, the primary accuser is A_C. A grain of salt just isn't enough when the only point of an opinion is to be as inflammatory as possible.
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
I'm specifically referring to the racism debate that has sprung up out of nowhere, where the accusers are now making sure that the accused remains a racist, no matter what.
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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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No, your actions are the proof of incompetence, and all the unsubstantiated "proof" of how business savvy you are doesn't obviate the fact that you made an absurd attempt at communication.|
Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
Actually those tickets are official channels of communication with the organization. They are also logged with copies sent to all parties. The kind of thing needed in court.
Given that I've successfully filed lawsuits in U.S. Federal court, and that I'm the writer of the Plan z license agreement (notice that one of the persons to use it is a practicing attorney) I might know a thing or two about this kind of stuff. Matter of fact I've been a consultant to attorneys and have a small business of my own with a senior municipal judge as a client. As a professional consultant my going rate is $300.00 USD/hr.Legally it is proof that they refused to communicate about the issue of sale. I do this for a living. How about you? Ad hominems aren't proof of incompetence. |
And I feel sorry for the people paying $300/hr for your consultancy.
Then again, most of us know exactly what the majority of consultants are worth.
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That is simply accusatory. The burden remains on your to support that claim. That is the second time you have made it without supporting argument. I'm COO of a one company, a professional consultant at $300.00 USD/hr, and owner of my own small business (been so for over 7 years). I have positive national ratings (U.S.) in communications and sales. I've been third ranked in an international organization with regards to legal compliance issue. I've had formal experience and training in business management organization going back decades. The evidence isn't consistent with your assertion.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
This does not exclude the demonstrated fact that you have no business acumen.
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The communication channel was carefully considered after examination of its technical and legal nature. Novel use does not automatically mean improper use. The medium actually even has an open category for special communication. I would not have reported my use of it if I had cause to believe that it was improper, misguided, or embarrassing. It served its purpose and did so quite well.
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Well I'm glad he apologized and all, and ocrrected the mistakes but if the shoe was on the other foot, it would have been made a big deal.|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
I'm specifically referring to the racism debate that has sprung up out of nowhere, where the accusers are now making sure that the accused remains a racist, no matter what.
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Lets say if I would of said what Terwyn said. No matter what is said after that, the people would say I'm a racist and for days that comment would come up, and some of those exact same people that brushed Terwyn statement off as a mere slip up (which probably it was) would be on my case for days and say that anyone who says it wasnt a big deal is also racist. And it would have been a debate that sprung up out of nowhere. It would have been because of the comment.
Now on the other hand, it's no different than what many players have been acting towards NCSoft. No matter what they say they are still a terrible company. No fun when it's applied to someone that wants to make it right but it wont. It's that way of thinking that was no problem when applied to other posters, NCsoft, and other comments but now that same logic is all of a sudden a self fulfilling prophecy when it's used on one that is composed up of a group that been doing it for years to other players.
While it may not be right, but hopefully now they understand what they been doign to other people over years feel like now and no longer support or perputrate that type of behavior on others.
Although most of those that they refused to let go of in the past was lot more minor than a racist remark.
What is that saying, what goes around comes around. And sometimes it takes it to come around before a person gain understandign of how it feels to be on the other side.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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hey, not saying you are not good at what you do and such, but would like more information about where this information that you speak of exist. I type the name of your company in, and get nothing much, but your website. No ratings, no international ratings, and such. I might be just looking in the wrong place. Point me in the right direction.
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Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
That is simply accusatory. The burden remains on your to support that claim. That is the second time you have made it without supporting argument. I'm COO of a one company, a professional consultant at $300.00 USD/hr, and owner of my own small business (been so for over 7 years). I have positive national ratings (U.S.) in communications and sales. I've been third ranked in an international organization with regards to legal compliance issue. I've had formal experience and training in business management organization going back decades. The evidence isn't consistent with your assertion.
The communication channel was carefully considered after examination of its technical and legal nature. Novel use does not automatically mean improper use. The medium actually even has an open category for special communication. I would not have reported my use of it if I had cause to believe that it was improper, misguided, or embarrassing. It served its purpose and did so quite well. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Me? I have my PhD in Psychology with an emphasis in Criminal Psychology/Behavioral Psychology/Anthropological Criminology/Psychotherapy. I have a degree in law as well (Only a BS) as it proved helpful in my career. I actually got my Legal Ethics professor fired for lying about his current standing with the ABA thanks to a little legal research on my end; but I digress. I work for the federal government profiling murderers, rapists, frauds, etc. I deal with the legal system every day; albeit on a criminal front. I have worked in the field of Criminal Psychology since 1996 when I began working as a therapist in Ohio for adolescents in a treatment center convicted of sex crimes. Most notable criminals I have interviewed/assessed are Jeffrey Dahmer and Timothy McVeigh.
While legally it MAY be proof of refusal to discuss selling the IP...realistically it is not. What your "tactic" tells me is that you were not truly sincere in your attempt to communicate with NCSoft or you would have chosen a more direct route to negotiating with those involved. What your "tactic" tells me is that while you did communicate with an NCSoft employee; you failed to bring it to the proper employee(s) either out of laziness or disinterest in actually speaking with those who mattered.
I suppose me telling a lunch lady at a school that their pizza is high in cholesterol could also be grounds for suing the Board of Education for poor nutrition on kids as well too... I mean HELLO I made them aware. The lunch lady is after all an agent who can represent the School Board; more so than a GM can speak to discussions of financial matters for an online gaming company.
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Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
Actually those tickets are official channels of communication with the organization. They are also logged with copies sent to all parties. The kind of thing needed in court.
Given that I've successfully filed lawsuits in U.S. Federal court, and that I'm the writer of the Plan z license agreement (notice that one of the persons to use it is a practicing attorney) I might know a thing or two about this kind of stuff. Matter of fact I've been a consultant to attorneys and have a small business of my own with a senior municipal judge as a client. As a professional consultant my going rate is $300.00 USD/hr.Legally it is proof that they refused to communicate about the issue of sale. I do this for a living. How about you? Ad hominems aren't proof of incompetence. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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I wouldn't necessarily use these sorts of things to judge someone's business capacity. I know of at least one super-rich businessman, who was given a bid to run a whole nation. That guy didn't understand why airplane windows don't open. Another one recently, who is even richer, in a 1-minute span, whined that the U.S. is no longer a democracy, and suggested that America attack Washington to force a reversal of a decision which was determined by the process that was created by a democracy.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
No, your actions are the proof of incompetence, and all the unsubstantiated "proof" of how business savvy you are doesn't obviate the fact that you made an absurd attempt at communication.
And I feel sorry for the people paying $300/hr for your consultancy. Then again, most of us know exactly what the majority of consultants are worth. |
Both are infinitely stupid things to say. But it doesn't seem to be hindering their ability to fill their wallets with a steam shovel.
We live in a very specialized age. People tend to know a LOT about a few things, and very little about everything else.
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I don't need to make a supporting argument. The evidence is right in front of you - you used an inappropriate channel for the communication. You then conclude that NCSoft had no intention of communicating with sellers. You keep padding your resume in the hopes that this will make this totally absurd assertion credible.|
Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
That is simply accusatory. The burden remains on your to support that claim. That is the second time you have made it without supporting argument. I'm COO of a one company, a professional consultant at $300.00 USD/hr, and owner of my own small business (been so for over 7 years). I have positive national ratings (U.S.) in communications and sales. I've been third ranked in an international organization with regards to legal compliance issue. I've had formal experience and training in business management organization going back decades. The evidence isn't consistent with your assertion.
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You doth protest too much.
Surely someone as successful as you has better things to do than pretend to be important on an Internet forum for a closing game.
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qft
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
I wouldn't necessarily use these sorts of things to judge someone's business capacity. I know of at least one super-rich businessman, who was given a bid to run a whole nation. That guy didn't understand why airplane windows don't open. Another one recently, who is even richer, in a 1-minute span, whined that the U.S. is no longer a democracy, and suggested that America attack Washington to force a reversal of a decision which was determined by the process that was created by a democracy.
Both are infinitely stupid things to say. But it doesn't seem to be hindering their ability to fill their wallets with a steam shovel. We live in a very specialized age. People tend to know a LOT about a few things, and very little about everything else. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Money makes money.|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
I wouldn't necessarily use these sorts of things to judge someone's business capacity. I know of at least one super-rich businessman, who was given a bid to run a whole nation. That guy didn't understand why airplane windows don't open. Another one recently, who is even richer, in a 1-minute span, whined that the U.S. is no longer a democracy, and suggested that America attack Washington to force a reversal of a decision which was determined by the process that was created by a democracy.
Both are infinitely stupid things to say. But it doesn't seem to be hindering their ability to fill their wallets with a steam shovel. We live in a very specialized age. People tend to know a LOT about a few things, and very little about everything else. |
Also airplane windows do open. (For certain types of airplanes.)
Anyway, he was making very specific claims about his business knowledge, which simply aren't credible. Anyone who had actually negotiated these sorts of deals would realize that a low level support channel to a subsidiary organization is not the proper channel.
Presumably, he'll now deluge us with the list of his successful accomplishments.
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You've developed a reputation that you're obviously aware of, but I for one wouldn't have assumed racism as a motivating factor if you'd posted exactly what Terwyn had.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Lets say if I would of said what Terwyn said. No matter what is said after that, the people would say I'm a racist and for days that comment would come up, and some of those exact same people that brushed Terwyn statement off as a mere slip up (which probably it was) would be on my case for days and say that anyone who says it wasnt a big deal is also racist. And it would have been a debate that sprung up out of nowhere. It would have been because of the comment.
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What he said absolutely was not wrong, it was just poorly phrased (and I actually read it as he had intended). The former Paragon Studios team told us as much--there is a disconnect between Eastern and Western business practices, and a large part of the reason they dropped communication is because NCSoft doesn't understand us and has no idea what to do. And obviously, doing nothing was among the worst they could have done in regards to this community.
NCSoft is going to continue developing games that it understands for a market that it understands, and NCSoft West will eventually disappear as a result.
Black Pebble told me the other day that a big part of the "refocusing efforts" from NCSoft's headquarters are to begin developing for the Chinese, who have similar tastes in both gameplay and business practices to Koreans.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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This is interesting. The very first words out of your mouth on these forums were, "I AM a programmer". Now you're a businessman?
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Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
That is simply accusatory. The burden remains on your to support that claim. That is the second time you have made it without supporting argument. I'm COO of a one company, a professional consultant at $300.00 USD/hr, and owner of my own small business (been so for over 7 years). I have positive national ratings (U.S.) in communications and sales. I've been third ranked in an international organization with regards to legal compliance issue. I've had formal experience and training in business management organization going back decades. The evidence isn't consistent with your assertion.
The communication channel was carefully considered after examination of its technical and legal nature. Novel use does not automatically mean improper use. The medium actually even has an open category for special communication. I would not have reported my use of it if I had cause to believe that it was improper, misguided, or embarrassing. It served its purpose and did so quite well. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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Demonstrate that the means of communication were absurd. Your personal feelings about it do not constitute objective evidence. Also demonstrate how my actions are proof incompetence. Again, subjective claims are not proof.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
No, your actions are the proof of incompetence, and all the unsubstantiated "proof" of how business savvy you are doesn't obviate the fact that you made an absurd attempt at communication.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
And I feel sorry for the people paying $300/hr for your consultancy.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
Then again, most of us know exactly what the majority of consultants are worth.
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It's possible to be both, or many, since the concept of a person who wears many hats must elude you - like how Zwillinger was the community manager but also had to do some light programming.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
This is interesting. The very first words out of your mouth on these forums were, "I AM a programmer". Now you're a businessman?
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Community Manager + Programmer = More Than One Role
I apologize that I had to explain this concept to you over the internet as I assumed it was something you would have learned on the path to higher education, but now it would seem you weren't on such a path.
I hope you don't take umbrage with this.
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There are too many cogs in a business to make that assumption. Both accounting and administration are facets of a functioning business. That doesn't mean knowing one of those jobs means you can do the other. In fact, I've seen plenty of businesses where it is extremely clear that nobody knows the simplest details required to do other jobs. This is why bosses are often described as having their heads up their own hind ends.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
Money makes money.
Also airplane windows do open. (For certain types of airplanes.) Anyway, he was making very specific claims about his business knowledge, which simply aren't credible. Anyone who had actually negotiated these sorts of deals would realize that a low level support channel to a subsidiary organization is not the proper channel. Presumably, he'll now deluge us with the list of his successful accomplishments. |
And, if we could somehow slow this all down into matrix bullet time, you've thrown a punch at someone, and while your fist is flying towards your foe, you turn to the audience and say, "Presumably, he'll either block or dodge the punch", as a way of discrediting him if he does what is logical.
-Female Player-
"Kick Rocks."
I laffed so hard.