Posi Confirms: COH Largest and Most Active MMO Ever Shut Down
By
Adar_ICT,
Posted on: 2012-10-29 18:54 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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That's silly.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
It's also human nature to call people sheep to make yourself feel better/unique
 (Hey at least you didn't call me a NCSoft apologist or employee) |
Nothing makes me feel better.
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I was just feeling playful. |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
So what exactly is the point of your graph?
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@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
So seriously what does that site count? is it like looking at web search info? Seems kinda silly to me. Trying to figure out "how" it gets it's data.
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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
I was just feeling playful.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Do the chart actually mean anything? If it does and it's measure of how powerful of an impact of negative actions (a mere 214 negative hits), then many other companies should be worried about the negative press this website gives. Walmart for example have 24K+ negative hits, and looks like they are doing just fine.Time Warner 14k in negative hits with only a 3.2% positive rating. And even worse rating than NCSoft, yet they are still around and doing buisness as usual. It dont seem that website have much sway on negative publicity and making a company tank or even hurt. |
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
I never mentioned #SaveCOH or the Titan Network or Plan Z or emulators in the OP. The same people are making the same negative, off-topic posts again and again, just like they do in every thread. It's funny how ya'll can accuse others of temper tantrums and mud-slinging while making every effort to deflect reasonable discussion away from so many thread topics. Most of you can't stop accusing the Titan Network of being a club or cult, while simultaneously all it seems like you're doing lately is stroking each others egos, coming to each others rescue, and comparing all the NCSoft Apologist/Employee trophies you've racked up around here.
You know, I've remained a loyal member of these forums and haven't even registered on the Titan forums--not because I don't support Tony's hub of websites (quite the opposite--I've pressed many others to sign up); but because I wanted to answer more Calls to Action, make my own heroic efforts to save City of Heroes, spend more time with friends in the game and less time writing on Internet forums. (Sorry?  )Also because THESE are my forums, dammit. I'll be damned if I'm going to let a bunch of spoiled rotten brats stick their flags in it and call it all theirs in these final weeks. You'll see a farewell post from me on or near the last day, you contrary, difficult, insensitive, unsympathetic, anti-social, unicorn pancake roach-licking, self-serving, space herpes-carrying trolls who probably don't have great personalities. Oh, did I say something mean? Okay, let's derail this and discuss all the same crap all over again, one more time. 1) I absolutely agree with those of you who wanted to see more aggressive tactics and negative press two months ago. I said it on several occasions: these behemoth corporations do not have ears or hearts to appeal to; they only have PR departments who monitor for negative press and want to avoid it as much as possible. It was strategically unsound to play nice and quiet and appeal to NCSoft management in a peaceful tone in the gaming press, and #SaveCOH and the Titan Network absolutely squandered an opportunity that not too many snuffed-out communities get: the undivided attention and heartfelt support of the gaming media at large. 2) Unlike some of you, I actually think the Titan Network is capable of making NCSoft "sorry" after November 30. But it won't be #SaveCOH. It will be #AvengeCOH. And it will only be heroic if they say it, loud and clear, and if they choose to avenge City of Heroes in the right ways. I don't believe we can save City of Heroes, but I do think it can be avenged without everyone turning into bad guys. You know what they say, the best form of revenge is success. The people who truly deserve success now are Paragon Studios, and all of their fans, and fans of the super hero MMO genre. I hope we can ALL make a comeback in some way that allows us to say, with pride and guiltless vindication, that we avenged City of Heroes--like heroes. 3) I support an emulator, but I don't view it as "saving City of Heroes." I support an emulator for the same reason that I support organizations like the EFF. I also think the Rebellion is cooler than the Empire and Zion is a better place than the Matrix. Go figure. 4) I view Plan Z as an extremely interesting world-building project. I don't view it as "saving City of Heroes," but a successor in memoriam sounds more heroic to me anyhow. Will they really make all of that stuff into a game? Who knows? I have been playing MMOs a long time and I remember, long ago, when the Cryptic guys got laughed at for their idea to create an exciting super hero MMO. I'll be right over there after November 30, but... 5) Right now, all I want to do in these final weeks, as the fan that I've been these past three years, is play and enjoy City of Heroes while I can; and make preparations for wherever my characters are going next. Now, back on topic.  |
Or staying within the NCSoft realm, Guild Wars have a 96.1 postive rating with 3k+ and only 331 about negative hits for 3.7%, more positive then City of Heroes.
See a relative pattern? Most other things have thousands of negative and still going strong. What? a mere 214 is suppose to a clear meaning that the company is bad and now will tank. Ok ok, EA, a notorious game killer, have about the same area of number of responses but EA seems to still be around even with the fuss of this graph.
All that picture really shows is that a few people are upset that the game is closing and doubt the PR of NCSoft, if they see that, will even bother to flinch, considering that this game have thousands of players. A flick is not a knockout punch. I think even NCSoft expected more people to be outraged and go negative on them. So far, it's all underground stuff that is not getting much attention besides the folks that already know about it and on board. There is probably more than 214 people on Titan network.
I think once they get real and stop messing around with small inside stuff where support is a given, then NCSoft may have a reason to start worrying. Right now, their PR people probably are busy dealing with other things. It will not be a PR nightmare if this stuff stays under wraps on small gaming sites, gaming magazines that are usually pro-player anyways and the likes. If they are too scared to get outside their comfort zone and actually try to rally support where it matters, then might as well hang it up and work on Plan Z, a new game. In order to do that though, they must do something they dont seem to be very good at. Opening up their minds to opinions that dont fit like a glove to their own views.
You know, speaking of cults, you hear about people in cults and stuff, I bet if you walk into their meeting place and say, "I dont think it's a good idea to join a suicide cult." Most of them will probably try to kill you, because in their eye within that group, they are perfectly normal, right, and doing the right thing. Does this make them less crazy because the cult think they are on the righteous path? Depends on the view. To them, everyone else outside that cult is crazy and hostile. To the rest of the world, the cult is crazy and hostile. Who's right and who's wrong and while many here tend to focus on that a little too much, many times it's irrelevant.
The cult have a right to their opinion just as much as the people outside the cult can have their opinion. But if a cult keeps coming to resturant saying the Gaundaspeare is a savior and someone pips up saying, "no, I dont agree." And the cult says "Gaundaspeare is a savior" and the same person pips up again and say, "No, I dont agree." Then the cult asks "Why do you insist on disagreeing with us?" Then the guy pips up again and asks in return, "Why do you keep saying Gaundaspeare is a savior? If you insist on keep saying that Gaundaspeare is a savior and you believe that is your right to, then I have a right to say "no, I do not agree". If you dont want me to disagree, then stop saying that Gaundaspeare is a savior. Then you dont have to worry about me saying no, I do not agree. That way, we both are happy." Point is that if people can continue to bring up SaveCOX propaganda over and over, then we can disagree with it over and over. SaveCOX already have a spot for all of that, but if you insist on bringing it here over and over, that is fine but we have a right to disagree with it over and over if we dont agree with it. Bring up the same subjects, you'll get the same answers. As much as you keep asking why we keep saying the same thing over and over, I'm wondering the same thing about your side. You talk about us coming to your thread but you all does the same thing to threads that are not glorifying Savethe COX cause. And as one your SaveCOXers said, "If it is posted on a public forum, then you should expect different types of answers." when asked why they insist on bring the SaveCOX stuff in threads that have nothing to do with SaveCOX. He did have a point and apparently no Save COX member had a problem with them doing that so hey, what's the problem with saying we dont agree with SaveCOX in the threads they bring up?
And the trophies, well your crew gave us those trophies and we just going to make light of them because the same actions someone we are being condemned for, is the exact actions they displayed to us and still display to us. It's really funny to me, not sure about the other ones, but it's funny to me.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Just had to drop back in and point out that once again, Captain-Electric is the champion of complete irrelevance.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Now, back on topic.
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You want to know what's more negative than NCSoft?
Try using "San Francisco Giants" in that moronic site.
(And you think *other* people are sheep?)
That site mildly amuses me. The internet is positive about Adolf Hitler. And Satan.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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The real problem is that players of MMOs have no legal rights to the virtual goods they paid real money for. Millions of people are currently paying billions of dollars for costume unlocks, powersets, vehicles and the like, in games like CoH, STO, Champions Online, WoW, yet these companies could pull the plug on these games at any time, completely trashing billions of dollars in virtual investments. That's really what's wrong here.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I really felt like that was the time to shout right back louder than we had before.
What does that mean? Just simply continuing as much publicity as we could muster. Oh, believe me, there were many people still trying, but a large amount of our playerbase was simply gone and our turnouts seemed to be far smaller than previously. Believe me, that is all understandable... we were here for fun and to play a game... not to fight an impossible fight against a billion-dollar corporation via the press, media and any publicity stunts we could create. |
If you want to make a real difference, start a campaign to get national legislation passed regarding the legal rights of digital citizens, the money we pay for creating and outfitting our virtual characters, and the many hours we put into creating them.
We have laws that protect the Intellectual Property rights of the corporations that produce these games, but we have no laws protecting the rights of the consumers of these games.
The United States now has laws requiring that phone companies let you keep telephone numbers if you switch cellphone providers, so there's already a precedent for tying an abstract digital entity to a real world person. As more and more things move out into "the cloud" more of our lives is winding up on servers controlled by corporations, yet they have no real responsibilities to us.
And it's not just our MMO characters, it's our email accounts, email addresses, file backups, family photo albums, videos, blog and forum posts, and on and on and on.
These companies make HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars off us, and we have no rights with regard to virtual/digital items that we paid real money for. The only "rights" we have are those granted by one-sided EULAs which have never really been tested in court. These EULAs are clearly overstepping legal and ethical bounds, as they claim to own the copyright on every character that we create on their servers even though we're paying them, we never actually sign them and we have no option whatsoever to negotiate the terms.
Whining and making bad press for NCsoft doesn't go very far. Companies will only sit up and take notice if we get the law on our side and even the playing field. It will obviously take a great deal of time and effort, and it will be too late to save CoH, but if you want to take on a mission that would stop companies from doing this in the future, work to pass a law protecting the rights of purchasers of virtual digital entities.
Since we're now having fun with that site, allow my addition.
Hm... seems pretty accurate to me.
Negative56.2% 10k+ hits
Positive42.8% 8k+ hits
Indifferent1% 195 hits
Conclusion
The internet is negative about sheep.
(What did the damn sheep do!?!?!)
Negative9.6% 349 hits
Positive90.1% 3k+ hits
Indifferent0.3% 11 hits
Conclusion
The internet is very positive about cult.
(I think this site is ran by Heaven's Gate!)
Negative0.2% 154 hits
Positive99.8% 85k+ hits
Indifferent0% 23 hits
Conclusion
The internet is absolutely positive about boobies.
(Heaven's Gate teenage boys!)
Negative3.8% 444 hits
Positive95.6% 11k+ hits
Indifferent0.6% 71 hits
Conclusion
The internet is very positive about weiner.
(See above comment)
Negative49.7% 10k+ hits
Positive49.7% 10k+ hits
Indifferent0.6% 130 hits
Conclusion
It seems the internet cannot decide what to make of underwear.
(Heaven's Gate teenage boys who go commando!)
Negative97.1% 21k+ hits
Positive2% 431 hits
Indifferent1% 207 hits
Conclusion
The internet is very negative about catholicism.
(SEE!!!!!!!!!!)
Negative58% 95k+ hits
Positive37.6% 61k+ hits
Indifferent4.4% 7k+ hits
Conclusion
The internet is negative about hair.
(Heaven's Gate teenage boys who shave their heads and go commando!)
This site is VERY scientific! LOL!
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
That site mildly amuses me. The internet is positive about Adolf Hitler. And Satan.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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So let's see....
Negative62.8% 118 hits
Positive28.2% 53 hits
Indifferent9% 17 hits
Conclusion
The internet is negative about erectile dysfunction.
(As are the men who have it!)
Negative5.8% 325 hits
Positive92.5% 5k+ hits
Indifferent1.7% 94 hits
Conclusion
The internet is very positive about viagra.
(So are the men who use it)
Negative9.3% 34k+ hits
Positive88% 322k+ hits
Indifferent2.7% 9k+ hits
Conclusion
The internet is very positive about porn.
(I actually thought this would be higher)
Negative40.7% 337 hits
Positive59.3% 490 hits
Indifferent0% 0 hits
Conclusion
The internet is positive about nemesis.
(It's all a Nemesis plot!)
Negative0% 0 hits
Positive100% 189 hits
Indifferent0% 0 hits
Conclusion
The internet is absolutely positive about catgirls.
(Damn RP! LOL!)
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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It's all the Holy Rollers on the Internet; they're bringing its score down.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Negative9.3% 34k+ hits
Positive88% 322k+ hits Indifferent2.7% 9k+ hits Conclusion The internet is very positive about porn. (I actually thought this would be higher) |
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On the plus side, I think we've finally identified what source all the SaveCoH folks have been using to 'prove' how well CoH was doing...
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
So let's see....
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go figure.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
That site mildly amuses me. The internet is positive about Adolf Hitler. And Satan.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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yeh, but still want to know, What the hell did the sheep do to anybody?|
Originally Posted by Brillig
On the plus side, I think we've finally identified what source all the SaveCoH folks have been using to 'prove' how well CoH was doing...
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Negative56.2% 10k+ hits Positive42.8% 8k+ hits Indifferent1% 195 hits Conclusion The internet is negative about sheep. (What did the damn sheep do!?!?!) |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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They voted for Keyser Söze
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
yeh, but still want to know, What the hell did the sheep do to anybody?
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They started the clone wars.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
yeh, but still want to know, What the hell did the sheep do to anybody?
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
You know, I generally put some thought into my thread titles. They're statements, written to say everything you'd need to know, even without clicking. And you folks have consistently kept my various statements about NCSoft toward the top of the forum for days on end. I don't honestly care much about what's being talked about by the 100th post.
By the way, that graph came off some random Twitter feed. I've never been to that site.
Thanks in advance for your continued cooperation.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
I thought this was an interesting topic about an interview with Positron (for so I shall always consider him, no matter what NC Soft says).
At least, until the same group of people stormed in and started screaming "SAVE COH HAS FAILED! THE GAME WAS LOSING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR! NC SOFT OWES YOU NOTHING! THE GAME IS DEAD FOREVER! EMULATORS ARE ILLEGAL! GO FIND ANOTHER GAME ALREADY!"
And said in a way to suggest that nobody else in the history of the world has ever made those statements before (let alone that they themselves have been posting the exact same messages for months now) and that we should all be amazed at their revelations.
And then those people wonder why they're considered trolls.
Gee, I can't imagine.
Anyway, it was an interesting interview, like all the information Positron has released. NC Soft shutting down a game under these circumstances, and stonewalling them like that are just twisting the knife some more, of course, but still interesting. I'm sorry that Positron is moving on, but I guess there's nothing else he can do. (And I hope that he finds a place to move on to soon. As he said, companies generally don't hire lead designers, they hire designers, period, and then slowly promote them to lead over a period of years)
On the other hand, I'm not uninstalling CoH until the lights go out, because I still like the game and don't want to play anything else. I'll have to find some other way to spend my time, of course, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
I don't think anyone claimed the game was losing "billions of dollars", just that it wasn't as profitable as some people kept claiming, at least when he take into account the cost of Paragon Studios.
The game couldn't have been making tens of millions in profit when it only had $10-11 million in sales revenue over the last 12 months. Also that $10-11 million in sales revenue couldn't translate into over 100,000 paid subscribers for several years now. I'm all for enthusiasm but lets ground it in facts first and then go from there.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
You know I stop in here= I read, I browse, look around... And, what I see is pretty clearly some GW2 fans (maybe former GW fans?) that are here dropping pancakes on Save CoH - and saying it's not ArenaNet's fault that NCsoft is taking CoH out behind the woodshed & bending the community over - apparently for the sake of their stock value...
Or (maybe) the "prevailing opinions" of certain shareholders that have bought into the "PC Gaming is Dead, All Hail the Future Kings/Queens of Gaming - the Tablet/iPad/Android/iPhone/DS3/WiiU/etc. = AKA, Mobile Gaming Platforms!"
Then, after this recent horrible "decision" Zynga's stock started tanking, probably not helpful for Nexon = a Japanese Mobile-Gaming Company. That sees a Japanese market - where people don't have room for real PCs, believe in the coming of their 'benevolent "cloud computing" overlords' & produce a market where Nexon would rather sell a few 100,000 copies of 60 games - 45 of which will be pure garbage, and maybe 7-8 decent ones, 2-3 will be popular & profitable & if they're lucky they'll have 1 "We Hit The Lottery" title = although in the Japanese market it'll still be a smallish lottery - unless it's somehow entertaining outside that market.
*And outside a few thousand US/UK fans of this genre of continuous garbage games, which remind me of "the end days" of the 2600 & later NES markets* = [<mini-rant> Or rather, Among the market of people who watch Japan-anime religiously on Adult Swim {or wherever} - Like, for example: "Bleach" = long after it originally airs... That's one small problem with having Spanish mythology inspiration & a dash of Germanic/English mythology all poorly translated/mashed into a title with a bunch of Japanese mythology.
Which is THEN translated -once again- into English... Poorly = including no explanations for the stupid Kanji pop-ups (that could?/would be word bubbles or old-school Batman aka "Freem"-type graphic flashes if it was a US title) = all parts of why its nearly unwatchable IMHO, of course. The Quincy dude with the Bow was kinda nifty *shrug* </end mini-rant>]
So - Rather than selling 500,000 to 1,000,000+ copies of 10=12 games, 3-4 of which will suck, and selling box-copies but not many subs or micro-transactions after 3-6 months, another 3-4 of which fill fade away after a year or two of decent/mildly profitable sales, a couple modest "hits" that sell enough units to be profitable and draw attention in the market/PC gaming Mags/Sites/Blogs. And a Chance at 1, (maybe 2) that will last for years like Everquest, WoW, CoH, GW, etc.
The Eastern Market would apparently rather put out tons of the usual derivatives taking small chances w/ re-skinned junk games... Rather then do new stuff & taking any real or big chances.
OR, they totally "go for broke" trying to force-feed cash down a development company and make it excrete out the next potential (in somebody's mind at least) "WoW-Killer" - and if this doesn't turn out as a mega success they pick it for recyclable scraps & turn over the earth & try to seed a new Wow-killer...
Then, someone told them about Angry Birds & and "Casual Facebook Games", & a few other games -'Pulling down massive cash' (at least from the view of somebody's carefully sculpted spreadsheet), from gaming junkies. People that - in the 80's would've been pouring quarters in arcade games - who are now pouring Credit/Debit card funds into garbage "free-to-play" games w/ cash (pancake) shops.
Actually gaming bloggers have been selling that lie for awhile now, it seems to be the Rare Exception rather than the Emergent Rule they've gambled (their souls) on it becoming!
That's the other thing they seemed to be more worried about a quarterly report or *MAYBE* the next yearly IR Audit = That will be read by investors desperately wanting to see a greater ROE than the gaming industry & overall current global economy is able to provide. At least in anything legal, or stock-related, maybe they should just move their money into ETFs & be done with it! 
Instead of sacrificing - City of Heroes = In order to help "massage the spread-sheet numbers" into something that will get them a bonus/or promotion/or not fired? 
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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People are called sheep because they act like sheep and blindly follow their "flock" instead of acting responsibly and using their brains. |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
It's also human nature to call people sheep to make yourself feel better/unique
(Hey at least you didn't call me a NCSoft apologist or employee) |
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Obstinate. |
Originally Posted by Vaelynn
Do people suppose it is SAVECOH's method that isn't working or if it was NCSOFT being too obstinate?
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The players did all they could, and this was beyond totally dismissed - wait, maybe not even that because to dismiss something you have to take it seriously, and I dont believe NCSoft ever took us players seriously for even one second.
This is ok though: I have learned a painful lesson. I will never ever take the owners of any given MMO as an honest entity, ever again - but ESPECIALLY, I will never ever give NCSoft one quintillionth of an ounce of trust ever again. They have blown my trust right out of the water.
It might even have killed my interest in MMO gaming, period. I really dont feel like going through this again in the future. Because now, I trust no MMO corporate entity.
Well, I had been toying with the idea of "Aliens: Colonial Marines" and maybe I'll go do that, because even if they kill the MMO part of that, at least the publisher cant come rip it off of my PC: I could still play if that part stopped [at least from what I understand]. I'm surprised NCSoft isnt demanding we all uninstall the game, and send them all of our boxed versions bacK! After all, do they not "own" those boxes? *sneer*
NCSoft has pretty much killed my interest in GW2.
Don't forget to send the Collector's Edition HeroClix figures back when you return the box.
Those character likenesses were only licensed, you filthy thief.
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And what exactly would you do about in-game virtual goods once a game is closed? And mind you, it has to be something that doesn't prevent companies from wanting to do business at all. Therefore, you can't write laws that force them to keep games open forever or to refund all virtual purchases when the game closes. Or rather, you could, but then game companies simply wouldn't make these games in the first place. Not where these laws exist anyway.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
The United States now has laws requiring that phone companies let you keep telephone numbers if you switch cellphone providers, so there's already a precedent for tying an abstract digital entity to a real world person. As more and more things move out into "the cloud" more of our lives is winding up on servers controlled by corporations, yet they have no real responsibilities to us.
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You can't honestly say you had any reasonable expectation to "own" these items outside the game in which they exist nor that the game would exist forever. Who then is really to blame for the money you spent on them, knowing that they were temporary?
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
It's also human nature to call people sheep to make yourself feel better/unique
(Hey at least you didn't call me a NCSoft apologist or employee)