Posi Confirms: COH Largest and Most Active MMO Ever Shut Down
By
Adar_ICT,
Posted on: 2012-10-29 18:54 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Wow, you must have spent a lot of time writing all that. Do you feel that it was a good use of your time?
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Originally Posted by JKedan
stuff
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As good a use as any other post on any message board. I come here to discuss and converse, don't you?
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Originally Posted by Codewalker
Wow, you must have spent a lot of time writing all that. Do you feel that it was a good use of your time?
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basically.|
Originally Posted by JKedan
In my opinion, if it were a large enough player base to make developing a new game worth it, CoX never would have gone Freedom. Any investment team looking for a new game to bankroll is going to look at the performance of the offerings in the Super Hero MMO genre and move on.
Those members of SaveCoX who are continually spouting the 'if we don't get our way, we're just going to keep screaming at NCSoft until we hurt them forever' line are also doing a pretty good job of making sure it never happens. Strange as this may seem, companies aren't really interested in saddling themselves with a group of consumers who have been proven to make a stink at the first sign of injury, real or imagined. It just not worth getting into a position where you have to appease people who have demonstrated that they'll attack your image at every opportunity if you don't bow to their demands. I share this assessment. I don't think there's been enough of CoX left to save since about a week after the announcement. It's just a matter of time vs consumer interest. Anything short of a complete reversal of shutting down on Nov 30th would have meant a lengthy time frame between shut down and restart, and the the majority of the player base would have (and already has) simply found something else to do. Because to most people it was just a game that they liked playing, not some quixotic stand against corporate behavior. If there was a chance of keeping the status quo, that's worth some time and effort. When that's off the table, it's just not worth the investment. They shrugged and moved on to one of the countless other entertainment alternatives. It doesn't help that the SaveCoX has never really had anything like a unified mission statement or measurable goals that an interested party could be directed to and identify with. Ask ten people what 'Saving CoX' means, and you'd get five different answers five combinations of those answers. Keep NCSoft from shutting down Paragon. Get them to sell the IP. Shutter Paragon but keep the servers on. Release the code for emulators. And so on. And sorry to say it but "Do *insert whatever my permutation of wants is here* by Nov 30th" isn't a measurable goal, it's just a deadline. Take the Call to Actions. I applaud the concept, but not the execution. Which of the several definitions of 'saved' were they supposed to enable, and what measurement was used to determine how successful they were, or, just as important, weren't, at bringing those ends to pass? Did anyone do any research on letter writing campaigns, for example, to determine what the effectiveness threshold was? Statistically, how many needed to be sent? What, historically, has been the best format? or Tone? or Content? Is it better to send them individually, or get a lot of them together and send them all as one package? Was there even an attempt to keep an accurate tally of how many were sent? And the letter writing campaign is followed up with the capes and masks attempt, which is basically the same thing. And what do you have to show for either? That the company set up an email account for you to send to directly, and speculation as to why that might be the case? So you have no idea who did what, or what it did or didn't accomplish, and nothing real to use as good or bad press. "A bunch of people sent letters" is mumbled heresay. "We received 10,000 letters and packages from fans that we sent on to NCSoft" is a usable data point. People and groups seriously working towards meaningful outcomes have defined and measurable goals, and systems in place to do those measurements. It's what makes them effective, because they know exactly how well something did or didn't work, and can focus their efforts appropriately. Further, because the movement is fractured, anything short of a complete reversal of the decision to shut down Paragon/CoX (which is impossible now in any case) leaves you with a portion of the group feeling like their want wasn't catered to. That's a no-win situation for NCSoft. And since there are still no clearly defined and measurable goals, how will you know you are successful in whatever you choose to do post-Nov 30th? How will you know your efforts had an effect on Blade and Soul, or Wildstar, or GW2? If Blade and Soul fails, for example, how will you know it's because of the negative press against NCSoft, and not because it is a crappy game, or even just a game that doesn't fit the current market? Or are you just going to take credit regardless of the truth and 'prove' it with anecdotes? Is there any consensus on when NCSoft has suffered enough? One different style game sunset? One failed game? NCSoft leaving the Western market? NCSoft going bankrupt? What's the unified end goal? When does the group think "justice" is done? I find it highly unlikely a unified goal or a way of measuring the success of the post closure actions will suddenly emerge from the confusion. And honestly, without real focus you're going to be easily dismissed as just more random internet rage amongst the sea of it that shows up on every single comment thread ever made. That has been the most frustrating part of the SaveCoX movement to me. I understand, respect, and agree with not wanting something you care about to go away. That is a fine and worthy sentiment. But without structure, that's all it is. Sentiment. And right now, the only thing that seems to be a unifying factor in the SaveCoX movement, at least if you go by the vocal posters, is general anger at NCSoft, and that's not really going to be an effective catalyst for change. The loud, antagonistic, 'we will attack you if you/because you don't do what we want' crowd that currently dominates the loudest group of SaveCoXers would be what they aren't interested in, and is pretty much acting anything but sensible or mature, regardless of "(somewhat)" qualifiers. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince anyone not to be angry. Anger is a perfectly respectable response to what's happened and motivation to change it. I just don't think venting anger is a useful method to get what you want. I think it's the exact opposite, in fact. And if people are just waiting for Dec 1 to unleash some vaguely defined internet justice on NCSoft, that says to me that they've already given up on CoX and any potential future iterations of the Super Hero MMO that, in time, might have replaced it. |
Well going bu their usual behavior, anything negative that happens to NCSoft, they will take credit for and use it to "prove" that thier "methods" are working.
I think it hasnt been SaveCOX for a while now and it's just a title. I think it just turned to desperation into another angry crowd of gamers keeping up a fuss and talking down to everyone that dont agree with them. And it's not everyone there just a relative few that seem hell bent on trying to "wreak havoc" with a peas shooter against a bear while not given a crap that they are dragging the entire effort down into the mud with their tactics. Kind of remind me of the KKK. Started with good intentions college fraternity and a few nutcases twisted it and it's goals into something totally different to what they are known today for. The SaveCOX is going down that path rapidly. While some of the good ones are making noise about saving COX they really should be making noise on those that is inside their cause that is doing more harm to the cause that anyone on the outside could ever dream of doing. Right now, there isnt even a need for a stick of explosives if a person wanted to kill the SaveCOX cause. NCSoft doesnt even have to say anything to kill the SaveCOX cause. Certain people on the inside are already destroying it for everyone from inside out. And everyone else on the outside just have to wait a bit and watch it collapse on itself at the rate they are going.
Maybe some of the good ones will stop trying to attack everyone and everything on the outside and realize that their own "house" is crumbling. I have yet seen any company be convinced to even bothering listening to a group that is constantly attacking them and condemning them at every turn. If Ncsoft is treating the group like an enemy it's because that is how they came forth. It wasnt like they came as trying to open up a line of communication and no "Do what we say or else." do not count. They came off as "You are the enemy because you decided to shut down our game!" And it seem to be a growing idea within that "heroic" community. I'm starting to wonder who really are the villains here? The people that pretend to be heroes but act like pure villains, or the so called evil corporation that made a buisness decision without regards to feelings, emotions, community cohesion and etc.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
There are some incorrect basis in that, as well as some ridiculous mis-characterizations.
I don't have time right now to really go into it, but the first bit is that there definitely is (and was, right from the beginning) a definitive mission statement and direct focus of attention and activity.
What is a bit funny about some of these later comments and derision about SaveCoH being nothing but negative attackers and mud-slingers is that we were told repeatedly that we were being too nice and wouldn't get anywhere that way.
I'm going to stop here and just point out to everyone interested... This, my friends, is exactly where you will be whenever you attempt to do anything. So, never get discouraged by it. You will be attacked and criticized from every and all directions (usually by people idly watching), because you can never please everyone. Basically, remember this: If you're doing something, someone somewhere will tell you that you're doing the opposite of the correct thing.
Lastly, JKedan, I have zero intent to suggest that the efforts were or are perfect. In fact, I'd have loved to see someone (such as yourself) offer those helpful suggestions of organization.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Speaking of a proper send off... |
Originally Posted by GreyScribe
.....................Everything we know about the Paragon Team would suggest that given the chance, many of them would have been willing to give City of Heroes a proper send off.
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Just because Paragon Studios wasn't allowed to doesn't mean others can't try to have one (granted more art related).
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Originally Posted by JayboH
I don't believe Plan Z will really get anywhere - I think people are being very unrealistic.
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I think you're being very narrow minded.
There is one helluva lot of energy committed to the SaveCoH campaign but until the servers get turned off, then most of the energy is being spent on getting a stay of execution.
However, once the servers do go dark - as looks increasingly likely, then that energy will be turned towards the legacy of CoH. It won't ever BE City of Heroes, but it will be created with the scope and breadth of imagination that CoH has and many other MMOs lack.
That has so many different options and you may well see that project breaking new ground in terms of how MMOs are made.
Thelonious Monk
Great post - unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears as it seems a lot of the people it is aimed act are starting to sound like cult members.
Plan Z- good luck with that - Cryptic with a dev team working full time and financial backing took almost 3 years to launch CoH. Who is backing Plan Z? How many TRUE full-time devs do you have; and not just people who know a little here and there? I can tell you this: If I were an investor I would definitely look at the behavior of your group and not give you a dime. Granted your visibility is severely limited. The people interested in Plan Z... rough estimate what do you think you have?? 500? 1000? (I actually think the number is closer to 200) Yeah that sounds like a great investment.
SaveCoH: Still playing the victims. Now instead of it being NCSoft just trying to hurt them it is people who do not agree with them; who they call tr0lls/unicorns/NCSoft employees/NCSoft apologists. You ever think people disagree because the way the group of Savers are acting? You ever think it's because currently the SAVE group is so fractured, disorganized, and hateful to everyone but fellow SAVE people? Your comment bomb "plan" is juvenile. Your kibun attacks misdirected and ineffective (I say this as a Korean). The posts on your forums regarding the "tr0lls" over here are ironic since the people you are calling tr0lls simply are disagreeing with you.
I give the SAVE group a few months before it dwindles into oblivion. Sure some of them have the best intentions, but the reality of the situation is that the SAVE group is not equipped talent or money wise. The reality is there are not enough people to warrant a new game; especially to an investor. The reality is people are leaving SAVE due to it's utter lack of organization, change of spirit, and forced group mentality.
I think the SAVE group in the beginning was AWESOME! The Unity Rally made me feel proud to be a member of CoH. And then when NCSoft made their announcement on October 2nd....the movement changed into a temper tantrum 5 year old flinging mud wherever they could. The SAVE movement went from a respectful group of people who cherished CoH to a bunch of martyrs demanding you to drink the Titan Kool Aid..or else! I hate to break it to you, but the "plans" SAVE has are not heroic...they are petty thug tactics....that will go widely unnoticed, but will certainly damn your movement and cost you "members."
I am not some tr0ll...I am a CoHer who has disagreed with you and has been called every name in the book. I am a resident of Paragon City who SAVE has tossed to the curb because I dared disagree with anything. I am time and money that will never go to Plan Z or any other SAVE plan. You like to say that NCSoft is mean, evil, liars, unwilling to listen, etc etc... look in the mirror; because to a lot of people...that is what the SAVE movement is becoming. I left the SAVE movement because I was ashamed of the tactics it is now using, because dissent is disallowed, and because reality seems out of the group's grasp.
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Originally Posted by JKedan
In my opinion, if it were a large enough player base to make developing a new game worth it, CoX never would have gone Freedom. Any investment team looking for a new game to bankroll is going to look at the performance of the offerings in the Super Hero MMO genre and move on.
Those members of SaveCoX who are continually spouting the 'if we don't get our way, we're just going to keep screaming at NCSoft until we hurt them forever' line are also doing a pretty good job of making sure it never happens. Strange as this may seem, companies aren't really interested in saddling themselves with a group of consumers who have been proven to make a stink at the first sign of injury, real or imagined. It just not worth getting into a position where you have to appease people who have demonstrated that they'll attack your image at every opportunity if you don't bow to their demands. I share this assessment. I don't think there's been enough of CoX left to save since about a week after the announcement. It's just a matter of time vs consumer interest. Anything short of a complete reversal of shutting down on Nov 30th would have meant a lengthy time frame between shut down and restart, and the the majority of the player base would have (and already has) simply found something else to do. Because to most people it was just a game that they liked playing, not some quixotic stand against corporate behavior. If there was a chance of keeping the status quo, that's worth some time and effort. When that's off the table, it's just not worth the investment. They shrugged and moved on to one of the countless other entertainment alternatives. It doesn't help that the SaveCoX has never really had anything like a unified mission statement or measurable goals that an interested party could be directed to and identify with. Ask ten people what 'Saving CoX' means, and you'd get five different answers and five combinations of those answers. Keep NCSoft from shutting down Paragon. Get them to sell the IP. Shutter Paragon but keep the servers on. Release the code for emulators. And so on. And sorry to say it but "Do *insert whatever my permutation of wants is here* by Nov 30th" isn't a measurable goal, it's just an ultimatum. Take the Call to Actions. I applaud the concept, but not the execution. Which of the several definitions of 'saved' were they supposed to enable, and what measurement was used to determine how successful they were, or, just as important, weren't, at bringing those ends to pass? Did anyone do any research on letter writing campaigns, for example, to determine what the effectiveness threshold was? Statistically, how many needed to be sent? What, historically, has been the best format? or Tone? or Content? Is it better to send them individually, or get a lot of them together and send them all as one package? Was there even an attempt to keep an accurate tally of how many were sent? And the letter writing campaign is followed up with the capes and masks attempt, which is basically the same thing. And what do you have to show for either? That the company set up an email account for you to send to directly, and speculation as to why that might be the case? So you have no idea who did what, or what it did or didn't accomplish, and nothing real to use as good or bad press. "A bunch of people sent letters" is mumbled heresay. "We received 10,000 letters and packages from fans that we sent on to NCSoft" is a usable data point. People and groups seriously working towards meaningful outcomes have defined and measurable goals, and systems in place to do those measurements. It's what makes them effective, because they know exactly how well something did or didn't work, and can focus their efforts appropriately. Further, because the movement is fractured, anything short of a complete reversal of the decision to shut down Paragon/CoX (which is impossible now in any case) leaves you with a portion of the group feeling like their want wasn't catered to. That's a no-win situation for NCSoft. And since there are still no clearly defined and measurable goals, how will you know you are successful in whatever you choose to do post-Nov 30th? How will you know your efforts had an effect on Blade and Soul, or Wildstar, or GW2? If Blade and Soul fails, for example, how will you know it's because of the negative press against NCSoft, and not because it is a crappy game, or even just a game that doesn't fit the current market? Or are you just going to take credit regardless of the truth and 'prove' it with anecdotes? Is there any consensus on when NCSoft has suffered enough? One different style game sunset? One failed game? NCSoft leaving the Western market? NCSoft going bankrupt? What's the unified end goal? When does the group think "justice" is done? I find it highly unlikely a unified goal or a way of measuring the success of the post closure actions will suddenly emerge from the confusion. And honestly, without real focus you're going to be easily dismissed as just more random internet rage amongst the sea of it that shows up on every single comment thread ever made. That has been the most frustrating part of the SaveCoX movement to me. I understand, respect, and agree with not wanting something you care about to go away. That is a fine and worthy sentiment. But without structure, that's all it is. Sentiment. And right now, the only thing that seems to be a unifying factor in the SaveCoX movement, at least if you go by the vocal posters, is general anger at NCSoft, and that's not really going to be an effective catalyst for change. The loud, antagonistic, 'we will attack you if you/because you don't do what we want' crowd that currently dominates the loudest group of SaveCoXers would be what they aren't interested in, and is pretty much acting anything but sensible or mature, regardless of "(somewhat)" qualifiers. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince anyone not to be angry. Anger is a perfectly respectable response to what's happened and motivation to change it. I just don't think venting anger is a useful method to get what you want. I think it's the exact opposite, in fact. And if people are just waiting for Dec 1 to unleash some vaguely defined internet justice on NCSoft, that says to me that they've already given up on CoX and any potential future iterations of the Super Hero MMO that, in time, might have replaced it. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Indeed.
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Originally Posted by ChristopherRobin
Just because Paragon Studios wasn't allowed to doesn't mean others can't try to have one
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Great post - unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears as it seems a lot of the people it is aimed act are starting to sound like cult members.
Plan Z- good luck with that - Cryptic with a dev team working full time and financial backing took almost 3 years to launch CoH. Who is backing Plan Z? How many TRUE full-time devs do you have; and not just people who know a little here and there? I can tell you this: If I were an investor I would definitely look at the behavior of your group and not give you a dime. Granted your visibility is severely limited. The people interested in Plan Z... rough estimate what do you think you have?? 500? 1000? (I actually think the number is closer to 200) Yeah that sounds like a great investment. SaveCoH: Still playing the victims. Now instead of it being NCSoft just trying to hurt them it is people who do not agree with them; who they call tr0lls/unicorns/NCSoft employees/NCSoft apologists. You ever think people disagree because the way the group of Savers are acting? You ever think it's because currently the SAVE group is so fractured, disorganized, and hateful to everyone but fellow SAVE people? Your comment bomb "plan" is juvenile. Your kibun attacks misdirected and ineffective (I say this as a Korean). The posts on your forums regarding the "tr0lls" over here are ironic since the people you are calling tr0lls simply are disagreeing with you. I give the SAVE group a few months before it dwindles into oblivion. Sure some of them have the best intentions, but the reality of the situation is that the SAVE group is not equipped talent or money wise. The reality is there are not enough people to warrant a new game; especially to an investor. The reality is people are leaving SAVE due to it's utter lack of organization, change of spirit, and forced group mentality. I think the SAVE group in the beginning was AWESOME! The Unity Rally made me feel proud to be a member of CoH. And then when NCSoft made their announcement on October 2nd....the movement changed into a temper tantrum 5 year old flinging mud wherever they could. The SAVE movement went from a respectful group of people who cherished CoH to a bunch of martyrs demanding you to drink the Titan Kool Aid..or else! I hate to break it to you, but the "plans" SAVE has are not heroic...they are petty thug tactics....that will go widely unnoticed, but will certainly damn your movement and cost you "members." I am not some tr0ll...I am a CoHer who has disagreed with you and has been called every name in the book. I am a resident of Paragon City who SAVE has tossed to the curb because I dared disagree with anything. I am time and money that will never go to Plan Z or any other SAVE plan. You like to say that NCSoft is mean, evil, liars, unwilling to listen, etc etc... look in the mirror; because to a lot of people...that is what the SAVE movement is becoming. I left the SAVE movement because I was ashamed of the tactics it is now using, because dissent is disallowed, and because reality seems out of the group's grasp. |
I kind of noticed these things a while ago from the leader and a few others. And me being me, I said something about it. Kind of about the same points you made and things that you noticed. It started off well, with good intentions and good idea but as time went on, things started to get a bit fishy especially after checking out their actual site, I could tell it was starting to head away from heroics and their leader endorsing that type of behavior. Especially when he says one thing like "oh we are not trying to force the cause on anyone and respect people that disagree." Yet when you disagree with the tactics, "TROLLL!!!" Yet in a lot more words. At that point I knew, that group went off track with the cause and true mission.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Truth. It just further proves that no matter what you do, somebody will be unhappy with it. I think the Paragon staff was quite familiar with that particular problem. It's not worth losing sleep over.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
What is a bit funny about some of these later comments and derision about SaveCoH being nothing but negative attackers and mud-slingers is that we were told repeatedly that we were being too nice and wouldn't get anywhere that way.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
+1
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It's not disagreement that people have a problem with. It's telling everyone that their actions are futile and ineffective without having any ideas of your own. Basically trying your best to discourage everyone from doing anything at all.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Yet when you disagree with the tactics, "TROLLL!!!" Yet in a lot more words.
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I haven't seen any constructive disagreement shouted down at all.
Culex's resistance guide
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Seen it many times.
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Originally Posted by Pitho
It's not disagreement that people have a problem with. It's telling everyone that their actions are futile and ineffective without having any ideas of your own. Basically trying your best to discourage everyone from doing anything at all.
I haven't seen any constructive disagreement shouted down at all. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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We'll see.
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Originally Posted by Codewalker
/jranger |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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It's because people are docile sheep. When large crowds come together, claiming to be fighting for something, they're all bark and no bite. The first hint of repulsion from their opponent, they scatter.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Sure, but, at that time, instead of taking their "go screw yourselves" as the end of it, I felt like we should have stepped up and countered it with a larger show than we did at the initial announcement.
Even offering an announcement that no negotiations will tak place is a part of negotiating... otherwise, there'd be zero communication. My final point is that, unfortunately, their tactic (with that announcement) worked like a charm for them. "Stop protesting! You cannot win!" And the majority of people walked away saying, "Oh, okay, that's over!". Just boggles my mind that people would take that reaction.  |
Actually most people I know that have left "the cause" realize that there is no cause left. CoH is closing and nothing can be done to SaveCoH. Like myself; they are not interested in Plan Z, an emulator, or smear campaigns against NCSoft because none of those things will: SaveCoH.
I'm all for fighting when there is a chance you can win the actual fight, but I am also a realist and know a few hundred people yelling is not going to make NCSoft "see the light" and cancel the shutdown.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
It's because people are docile sheep. When large crowds come together, claiming to be fighting for something, they're all bark and no bite. The first hint of repulsion from their opponent, they scatter.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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I never mentioned #SaveCOH or the Titan Network or Plan Z or emulators in the OP. The same people are making the same negative, off-topic posts again and again, just like they do in every thread. It's funny how ya'll can accuse others of temper tantrums and mud-slinging while making every effort to deflect reasonable discussion away from so many thread topics. Most of you can't stop accusing the Titan Network of being a club or cult, while simultaneously all it seems like you're doing lately is stroking each others egos, coming to each others rescue, and comparing all the NCSoft Apologist/Employee trophies you've racked up around here.
You know, I've remained a loyal member of these forums and haven't even registered on the Titan forums--not because I don't support Tony's hub of websites (quite the opposite--I've pressed many others to sign up); but because I wanted to answer more Calls to Action, make my own heroic efforts to save City of Heroes, spend more time with friends in the game and less time writing on Internet forums. (Sorry? 
)
Also because THESE are my forums, dammit. I'll be damned if I'm going to let a bunch of spoiled rotten brats stick their flags in it and call it all theirs in these final weeks. You'll see a farewell post from me on or near the last day, you contrary, difficult, insensitive, unsympathetic, anti-social, unicorn pancake roach-licking, self-serving, space herpes-carrying trolls who probably don't have great personalities. Oh, did I say something mean?
Okay, let's derail this and discuss all the same crap all over again, one more time.
1) I absolutely agree with those of you who wanted to see more aggressive tactics and negative press two months ago. I said it on several occasions: these behemoth corporations do not have ears or hearts to appeal to; they only have PR departments who monitor for negative press and want to avoid it as much as possible. It was strategically unsound to play nice and quiet and appeal to NCSoft management in a peaceful tone in the gaming press, and #SaveCOH and the Titan Network absolutely squandered an opportunity that not too many snuffed-out communities get: the undivided attention and heartfelt support of the gaming media at large.
2) Unlike some of you, I actually think the Titan Network is capable of making NCSoft "sorry" after November 30. But it won't be #SaveCOH. It will be #AvengeCOH. And it will only be heroic if they say it, loud and clear, and if they choose to avenge City of Heroes in the right ways. I don't believe we can save City of Heroes, but I do think it can be avenged without everyone turning into bad guys. You know what they say, the best form of revenge is success. The people who truly deserve success now are Paragon Studios, and all of their fans, and fans of the super hero MMO genre. I hope we can ALL make a comeback in some way that allows us to say, with pride and guiltless vindication, that we avenged City of Heroes--like heroes.
3) I support an emulator, but I don't view it as "saving City of Heroes." I support an emulator for the same reason that I support organizations like the EFF. I also think the Rebellion is cooler than the Empire and Zion is a better place than the Matrix. Go figure.
4) I view Plan Z as an extremely interesting world-building project. I don't view it as "saving City of Heroes," but a successor in memoriam sounds more heroic to me anyhow. Will they really make all of that stuff into a game? Who knows? I have been playing MMOs a long time and I remember, long ago, when the Cryptic guys got laughed at for their idea to create an exciting super hero MMO. I'll be right over there after November 30, but...
5) Right now, all I want to do in these final weeks, as the fan that I've been these past three years, is play and enjoy City of Heroes while I can; and make preparations for wherever my characters are going next.
Now, back on topic.
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The lead singer perhaps?
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Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
Should there be a Zombie named Rob as well?
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And that's why you'll all be forever doomed as sheep. Don't feel too bad, though, it's human nature to run away from resistance.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Actually most people I know that have left "the cause" realize that there is no cause left. CoH is closing and nothing can be done to SaveCoH. Like myself; they are not interested in Plan Z, an emulator, or smear campaigns against NCSoft because none of those things will: SaveCoH.
I'm all for fighting when there is a chance you can win the actual fight, but I am also a realist and know a few hundred people yelling is not going to make NCSoft "see the light" and cancel the shutdown. |
Do people suppose it is SAVECOH's method that isn't working or if it was NCSOFT being too obstinate?
The movement started by ME fans to change ME3's ending seems to have worked at least to some extent. More exposition given to the endings and explanations.
I will miss you City of Heroes..
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Is it? It's always seemed to me that most people seek resistance and name it "challenge"...
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Originally Posted by Scythus
And that's why you'll all be forever doomed as sheep. Don't feel too bad, though, it's human nature to run away from resistance.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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I could cite a few examples in our current society that have seen the continued erosion of human and civil rights in western civilization that should have everyone up in arms and yet everyone is still worried about the Kardashians or some other nonsense, but that would be derailing this thread even more. Suffice to say, people are sheep and they run away.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Is it? It's always seemed to me that most people seek resistance and name it "challenge"...
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It's cool, I'll allow that. (Not like I could stop you, but thanks for being considerate. UNLIKE SOME OTHERS.)|
Originally Posted by Scythus
I could cite a few examples in our current society that have seen the continued erosion of human and civil rights in western civilization that should have everyone up in arms and yet everyone is still worried about the Kardashians or some other nonsense, but that would be derailing this thread even more. Suffice to say, people are sheep and they run away.
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For the record, when I was reading Marvel's Civil War, I was firmly on Captain America's side the WHOLE FREAKING TIME.
P.S. Electric-Knight always has permission to go off-topic in my threads because it's kind of his M.O., but it's always entertaining and he always brings it back around to the topic in some weird way. (Saw your apology in advance up-thread, E-K.
)
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
I was on Cap's side too.
Hmm let's see what the internet thinks about.....
Results are the same if you put in #SaveCoH or Titan Network.
So NO ONE on the internet cares about SaveCoH?? Or does that mean SaveCoH has had no impact on the internet as a whole? Does this mean that maybe the NCSoft "results" are because of something aside from SaveCoH? Or does it simply mean whatdoestheinternetthink is irrelevant? I mean:
World of Warcraft has 14k+ hits on that site..
GW2=Almost 900 hits (Triple CoH and NCSoft).
Swiss Cheese=14k hits.
MMO=6k hits
Tabula Rasa: 364 hits (Ya know that game that's been dead since 2009)
Borderlands: 8k+ hits
SWTOR: 20k+ hits
Kool Aid: 12k+ hits
Zynga: 18k+ hits
SOE: 640 hits
F2P:732 hits
Burnt Toast: 277 hits (83% positive!)
Obama: 272k hits
Romney: 87k hits
So what exactly is the point of your graph? To show how little CoH means overall to the internet? To try and say SaveCoH has "put CoH and NCSoft all over the interwebs??" (Cuz uhmm it's not apparently) with a whopping 300 hits? THIS is the kind of stuff that annoys me - grasping at every little straw to "prove" you are getting results. My conclusion: whatdoestheinternetthink is stupid...and not reflective of anything, but you think it's a representation of how well the SAVE team is doing. If that's really your claim...then I would say it's doing a pretty poor job of putting CoH out there on the internet when a game like Tabula Rasa has more hits and has been dead since 2009.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Where would a dev team trying to design and market a new game pitch their idea first for a NA and European release? NCSoft doesn't instill me with confidence that they can handle this side of the globe.
I get the distinct impression from NCSoft's actions and inside reports that after GW2 and possibly Wildstar have run their course, they will dispose of those studios and either close NCSoft West altogether, or turn it into nothing more than a localization and publishing arm for the games that are developed by their in-house teams in Seoul.
They are a very proud company, and I believe that in the long run they would rather get what little they can in western sales of whatever product is making them money back home than support 'overseas' development.