Posi Confirms: COH Largest and Most Active MMO Ever Shut Down
Emotional attachment brings financial investment in a MMO. Certainly a Game Studio wants you to care about your gaming experience-- that's how they make money off you. They may laugh at you behind your back, but they are still going to do everything they can to get you to buy yet another goodie for $4.99.
The Devs didn't expect such an abrupt closure with a new issue on the horizon-- they were still hiring relatively recently. So as far as they knew, they had no reason to expect their jobs to be at risk. To be fair, I don't know how much advance warning other game studios got, but I'd wager their upper management knew they were on the bubble well before Paragon did. Heck, NCSoft had made major investments in Paragon even AFTER COH failed in Korea. They wouldn't have done that if they hadn't expected to get a decent return on investment. They may not have gotten it, but until relatively recently they were giving the impression to Paragon they were satisfied with its performance. The people you know-- the people who moved on-- on average, how much did they spend on COH? Would they have stuck around if COH HADN'T closed? There's always going to be casual MMOers ... people who don't particularly game if ANY game closes down. There are also going to be those who will only PLAY one game in their life. Observer bias. You and your friends may have no real emotional investment in the game. Myself and others may have a far greater attachment to it than its actual impact warrants. What no one knows-- yet-- is if there are going to be any serious repercussions to NCSoft-- or the MMO industry as a whole-- afterwards. You could be right. A year from now no one but a few diehards may care that COH was ever here. But you could also be wrong. |
Most maintained at least one subscription, tho a few dropped to F2P/Premium for short term economic reasons and planned to resubscribe. Some had disposable incomes that they could afford to buy things like the canine vanity pet, and had bought every booster pack etc. These guys would still be playing CoH and we'd have daily SG events had the sunset not been announced.
While my friends and I constitute a tiny sliver of a fraction of the player base, we'll remember CoH and NCSoft for quite some time. (One commissioned an oil painting of his favorite toon--how's that for emotional attachment?)
As a newbie MMO player (CoH being the only one I played for more than a few hours and the only one to hold my interest thus far) I'll certainly be both more savvy and wary of MMORPGs and my attachment to them in the future. While I found solo play in CoH interesting enough, it was the community and veteran players who really made CoH special to me. From my first days in Galaxy City and Atlas Park, vet players would look at my badges (or rather my lack of veteran badges) and give me SOs, INF etc. like some informal Welcome Wagon to say Welcome to CoH! Hope you like it as much as we do! It made such a positive impression, I've done my best to "pass the goodwill along" by assisting new players when I came across them.
Maybe this is standard in MMORPGs -- I've tried only LOTRO since starting CoH -- but in CoH buffing one another in passing is common, helping one another is common. In other MMOs that isn't the case. (If it is, let me know which MMO's so I can check those out after 12/1.)
Anyhow, BlueBattler, I'm preaching to the choir since it's clear you and your friends cared a lot about CoH, and so did mine. We're losing something special, no doubt about it. I imagine I'll forget about CoH and NCSoft about the time I forget all about the Star Wars movies, Star Trek TV series, books I love and gaming groups I had superlative times with.
That others aren't as hurt emotionally about this is great--for them! I have friends who still feel devastated by this, though they're moving on, and many are avoiding gaming altogether until the wounds heal.
aka @Kristoff von Gelmini, leader of small SG bases (Infinity/Victory/Virtue/Protector), member of The House of Tera (Justice) and various others (Champion/Infinity/Victory/Guardian/Freedom).
I would have let the game stay alive for another year. In that time, I'd let the dev team know about the impending closure next August and reduce the staff by cutting the Secret Project, but keep the CoH team on so they could finish I24, and then work on a blockbuster I25 (different from the one they had planned; this one would be a Grand Finale - probably it'd have to be rushed, but it's better than no conclusion at all)
Then, when the time came to close the game, it wouldn't just disappear from the face of the Internet, I'd just have them cease all development, convert all accounts to VIP (minus the "Free" stuff VIP players got every month - i.e., no Paragon Points, no Paragon Rewards token, no free transfer, etc), leave the Paragon Market open for anyone who still wanted to make purchases there, and let the game stand as a testament of (what would be at that point) nine years of greatness. Paragon Studios would have been kept open, but sold off to another publisher for a reasonable price. (No, I don't know what's "reasonable"; I'm not an accountant or an economist) NCSoft could keep the CoH name (and probably the Super Sekret Project). Whether that's practical, I don't know. (As I said, not an accountant) It might go too far in the other direction from what NCSoft did. But it certainly wouldn't have garnered the same hate as what they did do. Which is, as you'll recall: "You're all fired. I24 is canceled. The game's years-in-the-making plot will never start, let alone finish. Game vanishes forever in three months. Anyone who wants to buy the IP from us to keep it running can do so for $80,000,000. We consider this 'going out on a high note'." |
Yeah but selling might be a good way to continue on, but according to them, they tried that and exhausted that option.
And with the maintence mode thing, who's server would the game be ran on? Would it still be NCSoft stuff or switched over to another person. How does that work?
-Female Player-
My two cents to this discussion: I never had the sense that either Paragon Studios or NCSoft was laughing at us behind their collective back.
|
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
NCSoft likely didn't even give us enough consideration to waste a chuckle at our expense. We're largely beneath their notice.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Only one thing from your post confuses me:
Is the community destroyed? I thought the whole point of the Titan stuff was to maintain the community? It can't be both ways..the community can't be destroyed AND thriving in the face of adversity. |
Some people left, never to return. Some people returned to rebuild. Some new people went there to rebuild. The people there now are trying to rebuild but it won't be the same as it was.
[Stating the obvious]The Titan Initiative can't and won't capture 100% of CoHers. The refugees that shelter there will form a new community in the image of CoH but it cannot be CoH.[/Stating the obvious] The CoH community is destroyed. The Titan community may thrive.
Yeah but selling might be a good way to continue on, but according to them, they tried that and exhausted that option.
|
If they had said they were using it as a tax write off, I'd believe that. That's the sort of dick move corporations do. I'd still never give them money again and I'd dissuade anyone I can from giving them money, but I'd believe that.
[Hyperbolic Analogy]Is New Orleans the same after Katrina as it was before?[/Hyperbolic Analogy]
Some people left, never to return. Some people returned to rebuild. Some new people went there to rebuild. The people there now are trying to rebuild but it won't be the same as it was. [Stating the obvious]The Titan Initiative can't and won't capture 100% of CoHers. The refugees that shelter there will form a new community in the image of CoH but it cannot be CoH.[/Stating the obvious] The CoH community is destroyed. The Titan community may thrive. I've got a bridge to sell you. Only used by a little old lady to drive to church on Sundays. You have as much proof that I'm telling the truth as NCSoft is telling the truth. |
But yet, there is just as much evidence as them telling the truth as them not telling the truth. So thus it cannot be treated as non truth either. Then again that is the case for just about any reason that anyone can give. Like ask someone why they play the game, there is no evidence beyond their statement if that is the true reason they play or not or just the reason that they wanted to say. Even if they said they wanted to use it asa tax write off, that dont mean it true either.
-Female Player-
hmmmm, I was talking about the handling of this situation, Closing on Nov 30th. That is what I mean I dont think there were many ways in that they could appease the crowd closing during that time.
Yeah but selling might be a good way to continue on, but according to them, they tried that and exhausted that option. And with the maintence mode thing, who's server would the game be ran on? Would it still be NCSoft stuff or switched over to another person. How does that work? |
They didn't try to sell the studio. After the studio was gone, they tried to sell just the IP and game code for $80 million (so reports several people), an outrageous price. At least two companies were waving more reasonable sums of money right in their faces (Valve's offer reportedly even included giving NC Soft a share of any future profits, so even if the game became more successful, NC Soft would still win), but they refused to budge on the price. Two other investors were completely ignored and never got a response at all. So NC Soft's statement that they "exhausted all options" was a flat-out lie.
For maintenance mode, the game would stay exactly where it is. NC Soft's own financials show that their entire worldwide server structure - not just for their games, but for all their offices as well - was only $2 million a year. The cost of keeping CoH online themselves (particularly since all the CoH servers were virtual, and could all be run on one physical machine in their server farm) would have been a pittance in their overall costs.
(And since the Paragon Market would still be open under my proposed plan, that means the game would still be providing income - not as much as it had before, because there's no subscriptions anymore and not as many players would stick with a game that was no longer being updated, but it would also have no development costs, so any revenue from the game would be pure profit for NC Soft)
And, yes, I sent that exact suggestion to NC Soft themselves, when they gave out their "CoHSunset" email address back in September. They never responded, and clearly never acted on it. But they can't pretend they never thought of it.
So, yeah, they could have handled it much, much better. Even if they didn't let the devs "finish" the game's story for fear of sabotage, they still could have handled it much better.
Thanks, Ogi. I honestly wasn't certain how I might attempt to state/explain what seems an obvious truth. I don't intend any insults with that statement towards those who posed the questions, but I honestly couldn't come up with it in the span of time I had to respond here, in-between working on other things.
E.L., as for your questions regarding how better could they have done this... The main point is that the situations didn't warrant it being done. They have the right to do it under any circumstances they want, but nothing short of the game truly suffering financially should have called for the termination of it and the community surrounding it.
What scenario are you painting in order to make the closure a requirement?
As for the handling of the situation, require or not... the game's earnings, legacy and current (at the time) activity and excitement level called for forewarning, time to plan and produce better fitting exits and a respectful handling of both employee and customers (i.e. not firing them and ceasing all work in one day and allowing players to return to VIP and have proper goodbyes with their characters and the game).
None of this seems like it really requires explaining!
It's pretty bleeding obvious what they botched.
Only... you keep suggesting it is not botched, because they didn't have to be nice about it at all.
Well, being people of respect and care, our feedback as that is pretty awful of them.
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
The three-months-to-closing was part of the whole "Bad handling", so I took that date out as well. Good handling would have required easing into the closure more gently, giving devs enough time to "finish" the game.
They didn't try to sell the studio. After the studio was gone, they tried to sell just the game for $80 million (so reports several people), an outrageous price. At least two companies were waving more reasonable sums of money right in their faces (Valve's offer reportedly even included giving NC Soft a share of any future profits, so even if the game became more successful, NC Soft would still win), but they refused to budge on the price. Two other investors were completely ignored and never got a response at all. So NC Soft's statement that they "exhausted all options" was a flat-out lie. For maintenance mode, the game would stay exactly where it is. NC Soft's own financials show that their entire worldwide server structure - not just for their games, but for all their offices as well - was only $2 million a year. The cost of keeping CoH online themselves (particularly since all the CoH servers were virtual, and could all be run on one physical machine in their server farm) would have been a pittance in their overall costs. So, yeah, they could have handled it much, much better. Even if they didn't let the devs "finish" the game's story for fear of sabotage, they still could have handled it much better. |
So if they did sell, it would have been considered handled better? The game could go on in one way or another and they could have washed their hands of the matter and everyone would be content?
Yeah but if I was them I wouldnt want to waste any server space that I was paying for merely for someone else benefit, even if it was pennies. That is akin to letting my neighbor use my internet but not paying a dime towards the bill even if I wouldnt miss the bandwidth. Could it have been ran on someone else server or buy that space to run the game on that particular server?
-Female Player-
The NCSoft Cat says:
![](http://cloudfront4.bostinno.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/fatcat.jpeg)
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
So if they did sell, it would have been considered handled better? The game could go on in one way or another and they could have washed their hands of the matter and everyone would be content?
|
As E-K said (... note that we are not the same person, by the way
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
So how can you even ask whether keeping the game open under whatever publisher would be better than closing it?
But if you need an answer: yes. Of course yes. Of course that would be handling it better than simply deleting one of the oldest MMOs from the face of the Internet, never to be seen again.
I'm starting to wonder at this point if you're deliberately trying to misunderstand what people say to you, or whether you're some sort of alien that doesn't understand human emotions.
Yeah but if I was them I wouldnt want to waste any server space that I was paying for merely for someone else benefit, even if it was pennies. That is akin to letting my neighbor use my internet but not paying a dime towards the bill even if I wouldnt miss the bandwidth. Could it have been ran on someone else server or buy that space to run the game on that particular server? |
Edited to respond:
That's not what I've seen in their statements. World wide bandwidth costs 2Q 2012 was 5,634 million KrW which converts to around $4.9 million just for that quarter. I don't see anything in their financials that list their hosting costs, even the more detailed spreadsheet version of their consolidated income statement. They do list their "Cost of Goods Sold" as 139,100 million KrW in 2011 (the amount deducted after "Net Sales" to get "Gross Profit") but there is no further breakdown as to what that number covers. I would assume server and bandwidth costs would be included in that number.
|
Indeed. Paragon Studios didn't do it behind our back - they directly laughed at us (and with us), and we reciprocated and a good time was had by most.
![]() NCSoft likely didn't even give us enough consideration to waste a chuckle at our expense. We're largely beneath their notice. |
As for my being beneath the notice of a business-minded executive, well yeah. But I felt I had good to great customer service from game staff and NCSoft tech support. The only poor customer service I've had to date is No Reply to 2 emails sent their cohsunset account. It's only further confirmation they're not interested in my business and I'm happy that NCSoft doesnt have another product at present that appeals to me, so I have no problem saying good bye to them.
aka @Kristoff von Gelmini, leader of small SG bases (Infinity/Victory/Virtue/Protector), member of The House of Tera (Justice) and various others (Champion/Infinity/Victory/Guardian/Freedom).
... are you seriously asking if players would be happier if the game weren't closing? Are you suggesting that there is some version of reality where closing the game makes the playerbase happier than keeping it open in any form?
As E-K said (... note that we are not the same person, by the way ![]() So how can you even ask whether keeping the game open under whatever publisher would be better than closing it? But if you need an answer: yes. Of course yes. Of course that would be handling it better than simply deleting one of the oldest MMOs from the face of the Internet, never to be seen again. I'm starting to wonder at this point if you're deliberately trying to misunderstand what people say to you, or whether you're some sort of alien that doesn't understand human emotions. |
To me lot of human emotions towards stuff they have no control over seem a bit...odd, especially when the end result could be forseen whether it came early or was to happen 20 odd years later. But I try to understand.
Read what I wrote again. All of it, not just some of it. The Paragon Market would still be open, and the development costs would be nil, so the game would still be making some money (less than it was at the end, but some number greater than zero), more than enough to cover what pittance that one machine out of however many they have cost them.
Edited to respond: |
So they still would have to maintain that machine regardless of size and keep it running, meaning someone still would have to be paid to keep it up and any bugs that come up. Yeah so, I guess the answer was not inline as much as I was asking. Another way of getting at it. So even if they do that, how would that work where they dont have to supply a single dime nor collect a single dime. Meaning as they seem to want to do, is not bother with COX at all in any capacity whether making money or not without using any of their resource even one machine, no system set up to collect that paragon market money and etc. How could they have gone with that, while still keeping the game in maintance mode on the dime of the people that want to play, on their own billing system, their own server maintanence people or person, and etc but yet keep the IP and all the while handling the situation in a manner that would be satifcactory to the customer.
-Female Player-
Thanks, Ogi. I honestly wasn't certain how I might attempt to state/explain what seems an obvious truth. I don't intend any insults with that statement towards those who posed the questions, but I honestly couldn't come up with it in the span of time I had to respond here, in-between working on other things.
E.L., as for your questions regarding how better could they have done this... The main point is that the situations didn't warrant it being done. They have the right to do it under any circumstances they want, but nothing short of the game truly suffering financially should have called for the termination of it and the community surrounding it. What scenario are you painting in order to make the closure a requirement? As for the handling of the situation, require or not... the game's earnings, legacy and current (at the time) activity and excitement level called for forewarning, time to plan and produce better fitting exits and a respectful handling of both employee and customers (i.e. not firing them and ceasing all work in one day and allowing players to return to VIP and have proper goodbyes with their characters and the game). None of this seems like it really requires explaining! It's pretty bleeding obvious what they botched. Only... you keep suggesting it is not botched, because they didn't have to be nice about it at all. Well, being people of respect and care, our feedback as that is pretty awful of them. ![]() |
I'm wondering how, if they was in a buisness situation, would have they handled it.
Should a buisness wait until a product nearly sinks the company before killing it off? Some do, and other lose a lot of stockholders and other investors to the point where the least of their worries is pissed off customers. Others see the the deline as signs that a product needs to go. Many products are disontinued while still profiitable before it turn into a lose if the projected sheet say it may do so in the future. Sometimes it's just something needs to be cut and the one that isnt performing like it used to, is usually the first one to go.
From the looks of your statement, anything short of not closing the game would have been considered botched. So it should be irrelevant of when/how they did it, whether it was two days prior or one year out. If it's obviously that they shut the game down was the botch then with their decision, it didnt matter how they handled it. It's the fact that they decided that the game had to go in due to the realignment. Am I correct with your statement?
So you would of kept it open even if it was obvious that keeping it wouldnt be healthy for the game and you would wait until it caused financial loss first before closing?
-Female Player-
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
It was the suddenness of it all that really shocked us. If we had say server consolidation or a public downsizing of the staff just before or right after Issue 23 we would have been more prepared for the "realignment".
However for long time players, over the years we were able to rationalize the changes in the perceived population of the game. In the early days the skies and streets were full of heroes, then the debt discount and mission bonus improvement drove a lot of heroes into instanced missions. That's okay because we still saw them racing from mission to mission, crossing Steel or Skyway to catch the other tram.
Then CoV came out which did two things. First the population was split between two games. You were either playing Heroes or Villains. Second the introduction of bases and their zone teleporters meant you only needed to get to a base portal or after Vet Rewards were introduced in Issue 8, the base transporter power at 2 years. So now we accepted a smattering of characters running about in the open on their way to trainers and stores.
Issue 9 introduced crafting, the consignment house and RMT spammers. This drove a lot of people off into hiding since the RMTers were pulling character names off of the search list to drive their spam email. So we learned to rely on our Friends contact list to see if they were online, besides SG and global channels.
Issue 13 altered PvP forever. PvP didn't really hold any real interest for me but from what I understand is significantly changed PvP in a way where existing tuned PvP builds were no longer optimal. Sadly they did add multiple builds at the same time, a feature that if existed earlier, would allow someone like me who didn't want to gimp their PvE build due to PvP or vice versa to have a specialized build as well as their regular one.
Issue 14 introduced AE and player created content it also created a class of players who never realized that there is a world outside of AE with a play style that was usually significantly different from the farms found in AE. Many proved to be difficult to team with players due to their lack of basic gameplay knowledge such as zone geography and travel to tactical knowledge about various critter groups (target the sapper/death shaman/DE pets first). This may have discouraged players from openly welcoming any new players.
The introduction of Praetoria in Issue 18 once again emptied out the existing areas as players went to try out the pretty and challenging Praetoria. The upside it was the only way to start a character with any standard AT before choosing a side. But the rather significant change in difficulty between blue/red to gold made the experience annoying to older players while newer players only exposed to the difficulty playing the first 20 levels experienced the opposite when they went either blue or red, not to mention the change in visual quality.
It was easy for us old timers to assume that everything was status quo over the last few years. We were accustom to seemingly empty zones and search results. Everything seemed alright since of friends and global channel and SG companions were still around in sufficient numbers but for a new player it was a ghost town and unless they were taken into someone's fold, they probably didn't stick around. Few who mentioned the substantial downturn in sales revenue since 2009 were lumped in with the doom and gloomers.
So when NCSoft made their "realignment" decision we were all blindsided by it. But how much of that blindside was us simply not noticing the actual state of the game? How many forum posts were there telling new players that the servers weren't ghost towns and all they needed to do was find an active global channel or SG to join. That the game was very solo friendly or team size or makeup wasn't that important as it is in other MMOs. I think a lot of us fooled ourselves that everything was okay as long as issues kept arriving and there wasn't any hints of large staff downsizing or word of server consolidation.
As for NCSoft's decision, selling the property may not even been discussed when they were doing whatever analysis that led to them choosing to close Paragon Studio and CoH. By the time they made the closure announcement it was fait accompli. Part of a larger plan already decided upon and changing a part of it like selling off Paragon and CoH was disruptive to the decided course of action. Who knows, it's all speculation as to the real reasons behind it. The game simply may not have hit some internally decided sales revenue goal after a year of F2P or a white knight in NCSoft's management left leaving Paragon with no protector. Maybe they decided that only MMOs that do well enough in Korea and the rest of Asia are only worth keeping. CoH may have been the family "black sheep" being only viable in the west. Again, who knows.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
It was the suddenness of it all that really shocked us. If we had say server consolidation or a public downsizing of the staff just before or right after Issue 23 we would have been more prepared for the "realignment".
However for long time players, over the years we were able to rationalize the changes in the perceived population of the game. In the early days the skies and streets were full of heroes, then the debt discount and mission bonus improvement drove a lot of heroes into instanced missions. That's okay because we still saw them racing from mission to mission, crossing Steel or Skyway to catch the other tram. Then CoV came out which did two things. First the population was split between two games. You were either playing Heroes or Villains. Second the introduction of bases and their zone teleporters meant you only needed to get to a base portal or after Vet Rewards were introduced in Issue 8, the base transporter power at 2 years. So now we accepted a smattering of characters running about in the open on their way to trainers and stores. Issue 9 introduced crafting, the consignment house and RMT spammers. This drove a lot of people off into hiding since the RMTers were pulling character names off of the search list to drive their spam email. So we learned to rely on our Friends contact list to see if they were online, besides SG and global channels. Issue 13 altered PvP forever. PvP didn't really hold any real interest for me but from what I understand is significantly changed PvP in a way where existing tuned PvP builds were no longer optimal. Sadly they did add multiple builds at the same time, a feature that if existed earlier, would allow someone like me who didn't want to gimp their PvE build due to PvP or vice versa to have a specialized build as well as their regular one. Issue 14 introduced AE and player created content it also created a class of players who never realized that there is a world outside of AE with a play style that was usually significantly different from the farms found in AE. Many proved to be difficult to team with players due to their lack of basic gameplay knowledge such as zone geography and travel to tactical knowledge about various critter groups (target the sapper/death shaman/DE pets first). This may have discouraged players from openly welcoming any new players. The introduction of Praetoria in Issue 18 once again emptied out the existing areas as players went to try out the pretty and challenging Praetoria. The upside it was the only way to start a character with any standard AT before choosing a side. But the rather significant change in difficulty between blue/red to gold made the experience annoying to older players while newer players only exposed to the difficulty playing the first 20 levels experienced the opposite when they went either blue or red, not to mention the change in visual quality. It was easy for us old timers to assume that everything was status quo over the last few years. We were accustom to seemingly empty zones and search results. Everything seemed alright since of friends and global channel and SG companions were still around in sufficient numbers but for a new player it was a ghost town and unless they were taken into someone's fold, they probably didn't stick around. Few who mentioned the substantial downturn in sales revenue since 2009 were lumped in with the doom and gloomers. So when NCSoft made their "realignment" decision we were all blindsided by it. But how much of that blindside was us simply not noticing the actual state of the game? How many forum posts were there telling new players that the servers weren't ghost towns and all they needed to do was find an active global channel or SG to join. That the game was very solo friendly or team size or makeup wasn't that important as it is in other MMOs. I think a lot of us fooled ourselves that everything was okay as long as issues kept arriving and there wasn't any hints of large staff downsizing or word of server consolidation. As for NCSoft's decision, selling the property may not even been discussed when they were doing whatever analysis that led to them choosing to close Paragon Studio and CoH. By the time they made the closure announcement it was fait accompli. Part of a larger plan already decided upon and changing a part of it like selling off Paragon and CoH was disruptive to the decided course of action. Who knows, it's all speculation as to the real reasons behind it. The game simply may not have hit some internally decided sales revenue goal after a year of F2P or a white knight in NCSoft's management left leaving Paragon with no protector. Maybe they decided that only MMOs that do well enough in Korea and the rest of Asia are only worth keeping. CoH may have been the family "black sheep" being only viable in the west. Again, who knows. |
Yet judging from the past reactions to talks about server consolidation, I think most people that spoke about it panned the idea for various reason. I may be due to the outcry at the mere suggestion that that option was not targeted.
One part of the blindside seems that some were blind. the other half it seems that NCSoft did not communicate as much as what they felt was sufficient progress for the game to paragon studios so the devs probably thought everything was good..that is until the announcement came. I think they probably should at least tell the employees, that things are not looking well. But yeah then again, they probably waited until last minute so that there is no risk of disgruntled employee do something crazy, not saying they would but sometimes you never know someone until something they dont like is staring them in the face. like this shutdown. If many of these players were employees and judging by their reaction, I wouldnt put it past them to go on a sabotage rampage and try to destroy everything they can and thusI wouldnt want to risk it and would tell them they are to leave the office that same day and ensure they have no access to the stuff. It may have been one employee that they suspected that may do something like that but wouldnt be right to tell him at last minute and give everyone else months in advance so to be safe, best to release them all at one time.
Or all of this could have been long time coming and someone that was vouching for the game may have left and they seen the first opportunity to finally get everyone in agreement to kill the game and it was done as fast as possible. They might even may ave an internal deadline of when this alignment has to be done, like before the start of the new year. Whow knows until they tell us beyond the realignment process, which seems to be the only reason from them to go by.
-Female Player-
for those of you interested you can see here like ncsoft fares in the stock market.
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/036570:KS
If you scroll down to Income Statement for 036570 you will see like the income of the company was going down since 2010
This could explain because CoH was closed and Guild Wars2 went live early
who really cares anymore...you got 3 weeks and 3 days ...stop nerd raging and play the game.
the whos,wheres and whys are mute now.
![](http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8657/sernm6.jpg)
Not new news savage.
In Nov 2010 they were predicting 850 billion KrW in sales for 2011 and 1 trillion KrW in 2012. In late 2011 they say that they will make 700 billion KrW for 2011 and 1.2 trillion KrW in 2012. They came up quite a bit short at 609 billion for 2011 and GW2, B&S will have to sell like gang busters if they any chance of hitting even the lower 1 trillion estimate considering they only had 288 billion KrW in sales for the first half of 2012.
That's the reason the stock is down over the last year, their growth estimates are way, way optimistic and if you invested expecting that growth, it's understandable selling it off. However the stock is still 4x higher than it was at the start of 2009, just not 7x.
Of course right now it's bouncing up in anticipation of the 3Q report coming out this week. It should include a full quarter of Blade & Soul sales in Korea, so expect those numbers highlighted, and one month of Guild Wars 2 sales. But that's only one side of the balance sheet, they will need to show that they are back in the black instead of pulling a Zynga (sales grew $600 million, costs grew $1 billion, oops).
And GW2 didn't go live early. NCSoft first suggested the game was going to be out in 2009, then 2010, then 2011. If anything it was late from NCSoft's PoV.
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$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
At this point, what we do know is that there were several interested buyers in the game besides the Ex Paragon Studio Devs. I can certainly see the Devs be so attached to the game they'd try to buy it even if it didn't make long term financial sense, but the fact that several other bidders were out there-- and Valve was one of them-- suggests that at least someone in the industry thought there was still money to be made.
The amount of positive-- and free!-- PR that NCSoft could have made from selling the game would have been considerable.
That they didn't sell the game suggests to me they are expecting a CONSIDERABLE tax write off from selling the game.
Well, that or they are now so emotionally invested in their original decision that they will stubbornly cut off their nose to spite their face even if it cost them buckets of money.
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That's hardly brave or out there commentary... It's nothing that wasn't repeated often enough before August 31st.
The pointlessness of saying it now is that the game's end did not have to happen because of such things. NCSoft decided to end it (and end it the way that they did), full stop. It could have continued (with profit), it could have been modified for more profit and (I'm pretty certain) it could have been sold. Citing any other reasons why NCSoft is not "the devil" is akin to saying that CoH's skirt was cut too high and it shouldn't have wandered into the neighborhood it did if it didn't want to get attacked. ![]() CoH was far from perfect. We could enumerate its faults and any and every mistake made. However, doing so amounts to holding it up against perfection and declaring that its demise was inevitable because it wasn't perfect. Just seems silly to me. ![]() |
Couple of other random thoughts FWIW. (1) If one person influences thousands (and I'm not disputing that for the purpose of this question). Why wasn't this "great" community able to force multiply the subscription numbers so that there would be no question of CoH's survivability? and (2) A bomb was dropped on the players on that fateful Friday; no question about it. But given the player demographics and trends, the way the devs (understandably and necessarily to put food on the table) jumped ship, the way many players jumped ship, and dozens of other factors wasn't the fate of CoH pretty much sealed at that point (all emotion aside)?
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
Couple of other random thoughts FWIW. (1) If one person influences thousands (and I'm not disputing that for the purpose of this question). Why wasn't this "great" community able to force multiply the subscription numbers so that there would be no question of CoH's survivability? and (2) A bomb was dropped on the players on that fateful Friday; no question about it. But given the player demographics and trends, the way the devs (understandably and necessarily to put food on the table) jumped ship, the way many players jumped ship, and dozens of other factors wasn't the fate of CoH pretty much sealed at that point (all emotion aside)?
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-Female Player-
Would you made the announcement earlier, say in May or June instead and let the Dev team know that come Aug 31st they all were getting canned?
Then, when the time came to close the game, it wouldn't just disappear from the face of the Internet, I'd just have them cease all development, convert all accounts to VIP (minus the "Free" stuff VIP players got every month - i.e., no Paragon Points, no Paragon Rewards token, no free transfer, etc), leave the Paragon Market open for anyone who still wanted to make purchases there, and let the game stand as a testament of (what would be at that point) nine years of greatness.
Paragon Studios would have been kept open, but sold off to another publisher for a reasonable price. (No, I don't know what's "reasonable"; I'm not an accountant or an economist) NCSoft could keep the CoH name (and probably the Super Sekret Project).
Whether that's practical, I don't know. (As I said, not an accountant) It might go too far in the other direction from what NCSoft did. But it certainly wouldn't have garnered the same hate as what they did do. Which is, as you'll recall: "You're all fired. I24 is canceled. The game's years-in-the-making plot will never start, let alone finish. Game vanishes forever in three months. Anyone who wants to buy the IP from us to keep it running can do so for $80,000,000. We consider this 'going out on a high note'."