NCsoft Response to City of Heroes player and fan suggestions
By
Adar_ICT,
Posted on: 2012-10-02 13:46 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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An intermittent inability to comprehend language combined with reactionary anxiety and wild swings between indifference and emotional engagement are potential signs of a progressive mental disorder.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Now you're trying to tell me what I'm saying when I know what I'm saying? You know what, I feel that your mind is not open anyways to anything I say. You seem to have your mind made up that anyone that says they are not bawling and feeling suicidal because of the end of the game is trying to convince people. So lets skip the horsecrap. If this is how the convo is going to be with you not taking any consideration at all and go through less of the motions than NCSoft supposedly did with the negos. process and on top of that now telling me, like you are me, what I meant, what would be the point of continue to even talking about this?
When it gets to the point that you are now telling me what I said when it's clearly typed, and I told you what I said, I see no point to even go any further. You think however you want if your mind is made up and I will think however I want. The fate of the game is sealed already for doom if people cant get past the petty "Oh they dont agree with me so they should leave" talk. Maybe individual solo personal servers are better so that people can play only with themselves so they dont have to worry about any other ideas or thoughts/feelings but their own and everyone is happy. People still get to play and everyone on their one man server agrees with their every thought. |
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Unfortunately, only NCSoft knows for sure if they were ever seriously considering any offers or just "humoring" interested parties by going through the motions of negotiations. By acknowledging our efforts, they confirmed that they were indeed listening to us, but obviously nothing we said or did was enough to influence their final decision. |
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Even on that level, what happened? Did they just up and decided they had enough or what? Or we became too much annoyance and didnt want to deal with anyone? Or they listened considered it and still said no? Or what?
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It would be nice to hear the details of those "negotiations" from someone involved, just to know what specifically was discussed. But I doubt we'll ever get much info.
I think a re-evaluation of MMO's and our connection to them is needed.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
And here's what we'll hear in 3 months..
We wanted to let you know that your voices have been heard and your concerns have been taken into serious consideration. We appreciate the overwhelmingly constructive and positive messages in the emails, notes, and packages you've sent in support of the game. It has not been an easy decision for us to close Game Production Studio and prepare to shut down Aion. We've exhausted all options including the selling of the studio and the rights to the Aion intellectual property, but in the end, efforts to do so were not successful. Aion has a special place in all of our hearts, and we want to ensure its reputation and the memories we share for the game end on a high note.
Once again, we will be holding events throughout the process of preparing for the game's end, and we encourage players and fans of the franchise to join forces and enjoy their time in a game that we've enjoyed supporting for more than eight years.
The NCSOFT® Team
and then next year....
We wanted to let you know that your voices have been heard and your concerns have been taken into serious consideration. We appreciate the overwhelmingly constructive and positive messages in the emails, notes, and packages you've sent in support of the game. It has not been an easy decision for us to close ArenaNet and prepare to shut down Guild Wars 2. We've exhausted all options including the selling of the studio and the rights to the Guild Wars 2 intellectual property, but in the end, efforts to do so were not successful. Guild Wars 2 has a special place in all of our hearts, and we want to ensure its reputation and the memories we share for the game end on a high note.
Once again, we will be holding events throughout the process of preparing for the game's end, and we encourage players and fans of the franchise to join forces and enjoy their time in a game that we've enjoyed supporting for more than eight years.
The NCSOFT® Team
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Yes that puts it exactly right.
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Originally Posted by BattleAnt
Dear NCSoft CEO, Board of Directors, and stockholders,
I wanted to let you know that your collective voices have been heard also. I, as a customer, appreciate the underwhelming, under-constructive response at our positive attempts to save the game we love. This has not been an easy decision for me either. Based on your plans on shutting down City of Heroes, I feel, again as a customer, that it is in my best interest to "refocus" my gaming dollars into a different, more reliable gaming company. I do not feel confident in NCSoft's ability to produce any other MMOs with the company's track record of closing down it's own popular games, past and present litigation and the firing of the employees of Paragon Studios. Your current stock prices seem to reflect this as well. I do wish to thank all of you for allowing me to play and enjoy City of Heroes though. |
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In what sense? Sincere question. Part of the selling point of the multiplayer environment is the creation of communities relating to the game. MMOs provided social networking before the term possessed anywhere near its present level of dissemination in our culture.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I think a re-evaluation of MMO's and our connection to them is needed.
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It's totally reasonable to expect people to be upset by the loss of a community.
Some people will take it harder, because the community was more a part of their lives than it was for others. Again, that's understandable and totally reasonable.
If you've got a specific research agenda you'd like to put forward as relates to gaming, social networking, virtual communities, and the formation of attachments, I'm sure there are a ton of doctoral students out there looking for dissertation topics who would love your thoughts. A deeper understanding of the phenomenon is certainly warranted.
If you're just providing a one-liner version of, "Get over it," I guess that's another matter entirely.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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And that has what to do with the subject of allowing people to have different feelings?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
An intermittent inability to comprehend language combined with reactionary anxiety and wild swings between indifference and emotional engagement are potential signs of a progressive mental disorder.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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yea, they probably will take that information to the grave with them.
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Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
Unfortunately, only NCSoft knows for sure if they were ever seriously considering any offers or just "humoring" interested parties by going through the motions of negotiations. By acknowledging our efforts, they confirmed that they were indeed listening to us, but obviously nothing we said or did was enough to influence their final decision.
It would be nice to hear the details of those "negotiations" from someone involved, just to know what specifically was discussed. But I doubt we'll ever get much info. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
If they sell the game to anyone remotely non-stupid, it is very likely to rapidly get idiocy like the spectacularly awful store fixed. (I do not kid when I say I don't think it would take more than a week or so of one or two programmers working at it to produce a dramatically better store. Not a store good enough for the long run; just dramatically better.) And to stop imposing obviously destructive rules and policies. And...
It'd do better.
At which point it would be absolutely clear to everyone that ncsoft was incompetent.
At which point THAT CAN NEVER HAPPEN. So they will not sell it. Not for all the gold in the world. Selling it leads to them looking bad.
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It is an interesting question to consider what the ethical responsibilities are of an entity that sponsors, promotes, and explicitly profits from communities, to the communities it generates.
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
In what sense? Sincere question. Part of the selling point of the multiplayer environment is the creation of communities relating to the game. MMOs provided social networking before the term possessed anywhere near its present level of dissemination in our culture.
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Do you have any other way of expressing yourself besides rhetorical questions?
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
And that has what to do with the subject of allowing people to have different feelings?
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At a guess give it a year and they will be shutting down Guild Wars 1, and offering a small credit towards buying Guild wars 2 if you bought in the last 3 months. Then depending on how the buzz is over GW3 and the costs for developing it they will decide if its worth running gw2 for the one time purchase, or if they make changes that force you to use microtransactions.
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Originally Posted by Ani_Magi
And here's what we'll hear in 3 months..
We wanted to let you know that your voices have been heard and your concerns have been taken into serious consideration. We appreciate the overwhelmingly constructive and positive messages in the emails, notes, and packages you've sent in support of the game. It has not been an easy decision for us to close Game Production Studio and prepare to shut down Aion. We've exhausted all options including the selling of the studio and the rights to the Aion intellectual property, but in the end, efforts to do so were not successful. Aion has a special place in all of our hearts, and we want to ensure its reputation and the memories we share for the game end on a high note. Once again, we will be holding events throughout the process of preparing for the game's end, and we encourage players and fans of the franchise to join forces and enjoy their time in a game that we've enjoyed supporting for more than eight years. The NCSOFT® Team and then next year.... We wanted to let you know that your voices have been heard and your concerns have been taken into serious consideration. We appreciate the overwhelmingly constructive and positive messages in the emails, notes, and packages you've sent in support of the game. It has not been an easy decision for us to close ArenaNet and prepare to shut down Guild Wars 2. We've exhausted all options including the selling of the studio and the rights to the Guild Wars 2 intellectual property, but in the end, efforts to do so were not successful. Guild Wars 2 has a special place in all of our hearts, and we want to ensure its reputation and the memories we share for the game end on a high note. Once again, we will be holding events throughout the process of preparing for the game's end, and we encourage players and fans of the franchise to join forces and enjoy their time in a game that we've enjoyed supporting for more than eight years. The NCSOFT® Team |
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yep, I have many ways of expressing myself but again I ask, what does that statement have anything to do with the subject? Because it seems to me that you just said that just to be saying that to get a rise out of me. If I'm wrong, then by all means, tell me what was the purpose of that statement.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Do you have any other way of expressing yourself besides rhetorical questions?
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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The purpose of that statement was to express the thought encapsulated in the statement.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
yep, I have many ways of expressing myself but again I ask, what does that statement have anything to do with the subject? Because it seems to me that you just said that just to be saying that to get a rise out of me. If I'm wrong, then by all means, tell me what was the purpose of that statement.
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Separate from that, I may be convinced to clarify things for you when you answer my question first:
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| What I'm saying is that you complain about people trying to convince other people when most of the time they are not trying to convince anyone of anything. |
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Now, I've seen this game too many times to fall for it once more. I have to do the leg work to find the evidence. I will grab evidence and no matter what I pull, you will dismiss it. Good try, but hint, the first statement you made was complaining about people trying to convince people. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The purpose of that statement was to express the thought encapsulated in the statement.
Separate from that, I may be convinced to clarify things for you when you answer my question first: I asked for an example. |
Now either you are going to clarify the statement or not. You gave no evidence to your statements about me so take it or leave it. If you leave it, then this convo is over, Arcanaville, and it was nicew talking to you. Maybe I'll meet you in another game when this one finally go down into history on the 30th.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Frankly, about as much as when any club or disco, band, movie, or tv series closing/dissolving. Not saying I don't care. I want the game to stay, and I want more original star trek, matrix (that doesn't suck), and ponies....Satanic Hamster has given plenty though. I think what I want most though is a better sense of closer, and seeing the game through to it's conclusion. Not their's.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
It is an interesting question to consider what the ethical responsibilities are of an entity that sponsors, promotes, and explicitly profits from communities, to the communities it generates.
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Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
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take your own advise of the pic and realize maturity also come with the realization that everyone dont think like you. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Yeah, what was I thinking, trying to get you to fall for that old "have some evidence for what you say" trick. I'm absolutely certain you don't ever fall for that trick, ever.
 |
Have a nice life, Arcanaville. Nice talking to ya.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Now, I've seen this game too many times to fall for it once more. I have to do the leg work to find the evidence. I will grab evidence and no matter what I pull, you will dismiss it. Good try, but hint, the first statement you made was complaining about people trying to convince people.
Now either you are going to clarify the statement or not. You gave no evidence to your statements about me so take it or leave it. If you leave it, then this convo is over, Arcanaville, and it was nicew talking to you. Maybe I'll meet you in another game when this one finally go down into history on the 30th. |
Global@SteelDominator
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I'll gladly wear the well known and celebrated medallion of Bat Sh*t crazy, but then again, I don't need to state the obvious.|
Originally Posted by N0_REM0RSE
Yeah, but let's be real people for a second ok? You're not the character you pretended to be playing the game here.
I've seen everything from .. "Let's sue them and force them to GIVE us the game" "Let's be the superheroes we were meant to be" "Let's picket government offices" "Let's involve politicians" "The game HAD to have been making millions, even though we have no idea what their overhead was" "Let's get celebrities to claim this means something to them" (whether they played the game or not) "This is what everything means, because my husband said so" "NCSoft is now out to get us, and they're sending people here to weaken our resolve" "Force them to sell" (Even though none of us has come forward with that kind of cash yet) Let's be honest, this is getting to be half desperation, half bat $h*t crazy. It's not even close to being grounded in logic. Half of the time they break into game talk like they're fighting an AV. You can get tired of the realists all you want, but at the end of the day this IS a video game. |
I would rather suit up, bear my claws and get shredded to bits in the battlefield than hide behind some closed door in tears waiting for the end.
I'm going to keep making my noises and keep pissing people off.
Your'e welcome.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
I must say the last page of this thread adds a lot of value to the topic.
My take on the statement:
The way it is worded I am inclined to believe that the IP and physical studio were being sold as a single item- that NC soft was adamant that they would not sell them individually. As such, smaller firms looking at the IP were turned off from the deal, as they did not have a need for a new physical studio in california, nor the funds to aquire a high priced piece of real estate.
This lumping of the property, both the physical and IP, is likely due to NC Soft book keeping for tax purposes etc. I for one believe there would still be an opening to purchse the IP, but not this fiscal year, and not while the studio stands empty for sale because the "lump property" of studio and IP has more value to write off then what they could do individually. Once the building is out of the picture, NC may be more open to selling the IP, because at that time they would need to revalue it, and likely could not write it off anymore, or if they could it would be severely devalued as it would be left as cyber fluff of an IP that is not in service anymore.
The short of it:
Currently- NC has the physical studio, IP, previously employed developers salary etc lumped all together to make as big a sum as possible for book keeping purposes.
In the future- next year there will be no employee costs(or very little), possibly no physical building(sold) and so the value will be greatly diminished for book keeping purposes.
So, IMO, the best bet is to keep interest up, keep some kind of contact with NC going in regards to this IP, and wait for the realtor sign in front of NC Norcal to have the "SOLD" attached to it- and then see about getting the IP into another publishers hands.
Do not despair. In buisness, any kind of buisness, even the most common sense basic idea takes weeks, months, or longer to come about. Right now, chairman of CoH disbanding cant go back on his plan for risk of looking foolish for not pursuing ideas the community has put forth. Several months from now, when his cohorts and superiors have put this fiasco out of mind for a time, and the situation regarding the property has changed(sold the building etc) chairman CoH disbanding will then be free to propose "his new idea" to sell the remainder of the property(the IP and cyber fluff) because enough time has passed for him to claim ownership of the ideas proposed here at this time, thus enabling him to be the corporate money hero for a second time and maintain his prominence and reason for employment for an additional 6 months.
So I would say, serious talks next April? Best guess, though admittedly I have no knowledge of the real estate market in California specifically as i live in the midwest.
Also, I will no longer purchase any NC soft items like many others.
Liberty server
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3.5 servers of alts....I need help.
May the rawk be with you.
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I think MMOs have a legitimate point of departure from those other things in that MMO publishers almost literally sell access to communities as a fundamental part of the value proposition of the game. They want and encourage people to become emotionally involved with social structures tied to the game, knowing that for most people such attachments can't be trivially dissolved.|
Originally Posted by Kractis_Sky
Frankly, about as much as when any club or disco, band, movie, or tv series closing/dissolving. Not saying I don't care. I want the game to stay, and I want more original star trek, matrix (that doesn't suck), and ponies....Satanic Hamster has given plenty though. I think what I want most though is a better sense of closer, and seeing the game through to it's conclusion. Not their's.
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Social communities spring up all the time surrounding things like television shows: Star Trek at one point existed almost solely *as* a fan community for almost a decade. But while CBS and Paramount could and did stop making Star Trek the show, and its obvious they couldn't be compelled to continue doing so just to serve a community, conversely they did not provide nor did they revoke the infrastructure of the fan community that sprung up around the show.
As with most things, its easy to portray the situation in binary terms: either MMO publishers have no ethical responsibility to their communities at all, or they are slaves to them. If one thing is certain, its that the truth is going to be between those two extremes.
Very recently, an example of a form of social contract overriding legal and fiduciary ones was the settling of the NFL officials lockout. Press releases aside, it seems obvious that the final arbiter was the public at large. The NFL has no legal responsibilities to football fans. But there exists a social contract between the NFL and fans that in part includes the fact that the NFL makes claims about protecting the sport and the brand, and asks for the consumer's trust in its actions in the furtherance of that protection. The official lockout was a blatant irrefutable breach of that social contract, and the vast majority of both fans and professional observers reacted accordingly.
You could trivialize this as just as case of catering to the masses, but there's a difference between giving the masses what you think they want, and the masses thinking they are being cheated out of something and demanding corrective action. The law was mostly silent on this issue, but society at large knew better. A social contract had been breached, and that contract affected enough people to cause their dissatisfaction to be sufficient to force change.
MMOs are still a relatively new thing, and they don't have even a tiny fraction of that kind of penetration into people's lives yet. But that's a matter of degree. When an MMO publisher asks players to join, get involved, live a segment of their lives in their environment, I believe they are entering into a form of social contract with their players, whatever the EULA says. The EULA of CoH said the devs could change anything they wanted whenever they wanted for any reason they wanted without warning or compensation. But the game had a cottage rule nonetheless. The cottage rule was an informal social contract between the developers and the players: they agreed that because players get attached to the way things are, they would only change certain fundamental things when they had a high enough justification for doing so. All game developers form roughly analogous social contracts with their players, and break them at their own peril.
Until the City of Heroes shutdown announcement, I always assumed publishers recognized their own social contract with players. You build communities here, we won't arbitrarily yank the ground out from under you. And most shutdowns I've seen have been much more graceful than this one, recognizing that sometimes games have to end, but the community deserves to unwind gracefully.
In truth, the shutdown of City of Heroes is a very small thing in the gaming community. But the tragedy of the commons instructs that its the accumulation of small things like this that can destroy much larger things. Each time an MMO is shutdown, especially like how NCSoft is shutting down City of Heroes, it contributes in a small way to people distrusting game operators, and being slightly less likely to expose themselves emotionally to becoming involved with other similar online communities. And that's not a good thing for MMOs.
No one cow destroys the field, and no one shutdown destroys MMOs. But if MMO publishers refuse to honor their social contract with their players, or even acknowledge there is one in the first place, they must all take collective responsibility for the consequences of that collective decision, whatever that turns out to be. And people are highly unpredictable when it comes to such things on long time scales.
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Funny because I see what you're doing as identical to the behavior you're accusing her of. People deal with emotions differently, and no one has a right to stop someone from experiencing and processing their emotions in their own way. THIS is what a few people on here (and even more on COHTitan) are doing, they want things to be THEIR way and won't tolerate any expression of thought or conflict, even in the form of a healthy debate.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
An intermittent inability to comprehend language combined with reactionary anxiety and wild swings between indifference and emotional engagement are potential signs of a progressive mental disorder.
|
Now, there is a difference between discouraging feelings and discouraging certain actions. The people saying it's probably time to move on are saying that they see the writing on the wall, and generally don't believe the delusions that are being created and perpetuated by certain people. These people have been called out and challeneged as if it's wrong of them to not want to get themselves all stirred up for what amounts to a bunch of hearsay and fantasy. The other group is doing things that are honestly in pretty bad taste to say the least and could have negative impacts on people that weren't even involved, all for the life threatening potential of losing a video game.
Now, go ahead and turn your aggression towards me if you want, but remember, it doesn't change anything. Come November 30th, you'll have to go somewhere else (on another forum I imagine) to get your argument fix.
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You should consider adding something else besides "I know you are but what am I", "drop dead", and "look at me, I don't care what other people think, see, see?" to your debate repertoire, because there's no mercy rule on the internet.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
take your own advise of the pic and realize maturity also come with the realization that everyone dont think like you.
Have a nice life, Arcanaville. Nice talking to ya. |
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Basically. |
Originally Posted by Eldagore
I must say the last page of this thread adds a lot of value to the topic.
My take on the statement: The way it is worded I am inclined to believe that the IP and physical studio were being sold as a single item- that NC soft was adamant that they would not sell them individually. As such, smaller firms looking at the IP were turned off from the deal, as they did not have a need for a new physical studio in california, nor the funds to aquire a high priced piece of real estate. This lumping of the property, both the physical and IP, is likely due to NC Soft book keeping for tax purposes etc. I for one believe there would still be an opening to purchse the IP, but not this fiscal year, and not while the studio stands empty for sale because the "lump property" of studio and IP has more value to write off then what they could do individually. Once the building is out of the picture, NC may be more open to selling the IP, because at that time they would need to revalue it, and likely could not write it off anymore, or if they could it would be severely devalued as it would be left as cyber fluff of an IP that is not in service anymore. The short of it: Currently- NC has the physical studio, IP, previously employed developers salary etc lumped all together to make as big a sum as possible for book keeping purposes. In the future- next year there will be no employee costs(or very little), possibly no physical building(sold) and so the value will be greatly diminished for book keeping purposes. So, IMO, the best bet is to keep interest up, keep some kind of contact with NC going in regards to this IP, and wait for the realtor sign in front of NC Norcal to have the "SOLD" attached to it- and then see about getting the IP into another publishers hands. Do not despair. In buisness, any kind of buisness, even the most common sense basic idea takes weeks, months, or longer to come about. Right now, chairman of CoH disbanding cant go back on his plan for risk of looking foolish for not pursuing ideas the community has put forth. Several months from now, when his cohorts and superiors have put this fiasco out of mind for a time, and the situation regarding the property has changed(sold the building etc) chairman CoH disbanding will then be free to propose "his new idea" to sell the remainder of the property(the IP and cyber fluff) because enough time has passed for him to claim ownership of the ideas proposed here at this time, thus enabling him to be the corporate money hero for a second time and maintain his prominence and reason for employment for an additional 6 months. So I would say, serious talks next April? Best guess, though admittedly I have no knowledge of the real estate market in California specifically as i live in the midwest. |
I heard the rent was high but yeah I knid of wonder what that kind of building will go for in California. Last time I even been there or looked at real estate there, it was pretty high.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Im not too surprised by their response,
I would question just how serious they were about selling, what was their valuation if the sell( assuming they actually talked with any of the would be buyers), and the timing( that is, if they talked with any potential buyers, was it before or after they made the announcement). My suspicion is that if they did talk to any potential buyers, they over valuated the property, and the timing is important in that the minute they made the announcement to close and started laying off Paragon Studios staff, that wouldve caused even more devaluation of the property, especially as it gets closer to Nov. 30.
While I dont agree with the decision to close CoX, I do understand why.